VN Ren'Py Croft Adventures [v0.6.8b] [PixDES]

[ouch2020]

desdraw If the early release of the new update was ready yesterday, I guess the normal release to subscribers will be in more or less one week, and (if I remember correctly) a three weeks after for the "public" one ? Just trying to estimate when I will get my hands on Lara :-D, but also get some information useful for everybody and not only for me.

 

[Waahnubis]

Guys,
your enthusiasm is appreciated but to be quite frank - you do realize that some of the team are actually making their living from this game? So the free version is not really on top of our priority list right after a release.

We released it to the Patreons, we'll fix bugs that come up and we'll happily engage on Discord and here - and yes, at some point there will be an official public release.

Take care
Waahnubis

 

[ouch2020]

Guys,
your enthusiasm is appreciated but to be quite frank - you do realize that some of the team are actually making their living from this game? So the free version is not really on top of our priority list right after a release.

We released it to the Patreons, we'll fix bugs that come up and we'll happily engage on Discord and here - and yes, at some point there will be an official public release.

Take care
Waahnubis

Actually, if you are replying to me, you are the one that did not understand the not so hidden reference in my post, putting aside my previous posts (Desdraw was the one that exchanged replies with me).

I perfectly know that some authors use these games as their main source of income (a risky proposition, but some succeeded very well, others manage, others were forced by events like COVID or unemployment), I asked also about the public release as a matter of correctness towards the other people in the forum, since I was asking on this forum.

If you had looked better before going all condescencing, you would have seen I am a patron (or if you prefer, patreon), that's why I asked also for the various levels on Patreon, since it is not released for all levels, and I am not at the lowest, but also not at the highest.
Unfortunately, I had already paid for one year, as explicitly mentioned in previous posts, based on the first "public" version of the game I had seen and some replies I had got from Desdraw, who had a very different tone.
Based on your behaviour, I would not do it and I will not renew when it expires - it is true that you can certainly do with one subscriber less without "feeling" it, but you should also remember that the more subscribers you lose, the more income you lose.
You want respect for your effort, learn to respect others, and don't forget this site is for is also for game developers and people wanting to find games of this type to play, and many games become known and get subscribers through this web site and people first playing the "public" release found here.
I know at least two developers who got their sole income (one luckily only during COVID) from their game, and for which I know for sure (because I followed and sponsored from early one) that the biggest part of their subscribers discovered the game from this web site.

 

[desdraw]

I think the levels have been raised for no reason. And yes, many creators have obtained sponsors through sites like this, but also many projects have died through sites like this. Waahnubis only said that there are many people who sometimes forget that long projects are maintained because they make money. When these are not profitable, two things happen.

The project is abandoned or its development time is extended too much because the creator has to dedicate time to something else that gives him the money to live (that is the reality of life).

Now returning to the topic. I know that you are a patron and that you are at a lower level and his response was general for those who demand without giving anything in return. We don't force anyone to support us, I decided to make a Lara game for adults because they are a big fan but in order to make the game that Lara deserves I decided to put all my time into this and that's why I live off the profits from the game.

Piracy is something that has always existed and I have also benefited from it on several occasions in my life, but what does bother me and I don't do is demand what doesn't belong to me when I am using a pirated product. Realistically, we are not, all game developers who have a patreon, the public version only has priority in the first months of development, then not because it has already fulfilled its function (to make itself known).

All the development information is in the patreon and we update it weekly so that patrons know how the development of the game is going. We know that everyone does not have the possibility to pay because the economy is becoming more difficult. But it is for everyone equally. If I were completely against piracy we wouldn't be on this forum.

 

[Waahnubis]

Actually, if you are replying to me, you are the one that did not understand the not so hidden reference in my post, putting aside my previous posts (Desdraw was the one that exchanged replies with me).

I perfectly know that some authors use these games as their main source of income (a risky proposition, but some succeeded very well, others manage, others were forced by events like COVID or unemployment), I asked also about the public release as a matter of correctness towards the other people in the forum, since I was asking on this forum.

If you had looked better before going all condescencing, you would have seen I am a patron (or if you prefer, patreon), that's why I asked also for the various levels on Patreon, since it is not released for all levels, and I am not at the lowest, but also not at the highest.
Unfortunately, I had already paid for one year, as explicitly mentioned in previous posts, based on the first "public" version of the game I had seen and some replies I had got from Desdraw, who had a very different tone.
Based on your behaviour, I would not do it and I will not renew when it expires - it is true that you can certainly do with one subscriber less without "feeling" it, but you should also remember that the more subscribers you lose, the more income you lose.
You want respect for your effort, learn to respect others, and don't forget this site is for is also for game developers and people wanting to find games of this type to play, and many games become known and get subscribers through this web site and people first playing the "public" release found here.
I know at least two developers who got their sole income (one luckily only during COVID) from their game, and for which I know for sure (because I followed and sponsored from early one) that the biggest part of their subscribers discovered the game from this web site.

Couldn't answer yesterday as my internet connection crapped out on me... but not wanting to leave this without comment.

1) No it was not directed at anyone specifically - if it was I would have used the reply function
2) I honestly fail to see where my comment was disrespectful or "all condescending" as you put it (also I would not use emojis like I have if my intention would be to be harsh or rude)
3) If you are a supporter then I also don't quite see how you can feel it is directed at you when I specifically stated that "the free version is not on top of the priority list" - support tier release is a different topic. Also: Thank you for your support, it is appreciated.
4) I am very well aware what this site is and stands for - also that many games found a larger part of their support base here (I support games that I initially found here for "free").

 

[Waahnubis]

Give us some tease. render numbers, animations numbers ?
So, new Adventure, looks fun, nice to see the classic shorts . only dream sex, or someone gonna have fun with Lara in real life too?.

Des is the numbers man but for the "Dreams" part:
You can be pretty sure that Lara's dreams do have an impact on her real life as well.
Setting this up just takes a bit more "buildup" than having a dream - buuut... nah, not telling.

 

[DashRaider]

I'm on patreon, I support you but I don't have access, it lacks the logic to support the project. I understand if the person who pays you more has access to something more, but this is demotivating. Maybe you should reconsider the levels and the content you will display. I can't afford to support more creators at the highest paying level. It's one thing to support a project and another is business. Maybe if you have more backers it would be a good idea to lower the required amount of money for a specific level or hire more people to work faster. You could inform what you do with the money, for example you invest it in more powerful hardware or software, or you have a new employee.
And I think that explaining the meaning of legal copies and piracy on this site is unnecessary, it is not your official site but a site where there are a lot of things that are locked behind a payment gateway. It wouldn't even work here without these things. By the way Lara Croft and Tomb Raider is not a brand you own and making money this way is not very legal. I would understand the situation if it was FOW studio and their Subverse project.

 

[Waahnubis]

I'm on patreon, I support you but I don't have access, it lacks the logic to support the project. I understand if the person who pays you more has access to something more, but this is demotivating. Maybe you should reconsider the levels and the content you will display. I can't afford to support more creators at the highest paying level. It's one thing to support a project and another is business. Maybe if you have more backers it would be a good idea to lower the required amount of money for a specific level or hire more people to work faster. You could inform what you do with the money, for example you invest it in more powerful hardware or software, or you have a new employee.
And I think that explaining the meaning of legal copies and piracy on this site is unnecessary, it is not your official site but a site where there are a lot of things that are locked behind a payment gateway. It wouldn't even work here without these things. By the way Lara Croft and Tomb Raider is not a brand you own and making money this way is not very legal. I would understand the situation if it was FOW studio and their Subverse project.

All good, point for the tiers taken (BTW, I think your points would also be a good discussion point on our Discord). Des is managing the Patreon site, so I leave the answers/considerations to that to him.

And I was not trying to "explain" anything (especially not the finer shades of piracy and IP ownership - least of all here). I was just pointing out that the free/public release is not our top priority while we work our way through the release. And I said at the end - happy to engage for a general discussion and we will have a public release at some point.

I am honestly surprised that this seems to be a touchy subject for some - especially here.

But as everyone can see - we post the public version here and engage with everyone who has an interest. So we're trying to strike a balance from our end as well.

 

[desdraw]

ok I'll check out the patreon, I'm always open to making improvements and listening to suggestions. But according to your logic, our work has no value because we are making a game based on a universe that is not ours ?

 

[ChipLecsap]

How about we talking something more interesting ?

Does Astrid Spank Lara's ass in this new update , or anyone else?
since Lara seem to be on a mission, does that mean she had to do the Photo Shoot, for the Rich guy?.

oh and we still don't know what outfit the Succubus left to Lara in the Halloween special, I would not mind to see it

 

[Maviarab]

How about we talking something more interesting ?

Does Astrid Spank Lara's ass in this new update , or anyone else?
since Lara seem to be on a mission, does that mean she had to do the Photo Shoot, for the Rich guy?.

oh and we still don't know what outfit the Succubus left to Lara in the Halloween special, I would not mind to see it

Out of reactions so....

 

[desdraw]

Well, what I can say is that the game is not a dating simulator and we have tried to give a progression logic to the relationships in the game, so the relationships are mixed into the story. There will be sex with most of the characters but everything in accordance with the story, this will make some characters take longer than others to have hotter scenes. Regarding Halloween, we had planned to do special events like the first one, but at the decision of the patrons, we canceled them to work on the game only. But I'm making some special renders for Halloween. These will be available on Patreon when they are ready.

 

[palmtrees89]

that's why I asked also for the various levels on Patreon, since it is not released for all levels, and I am not at the lowest, but also not at the highest.

There's only 4 tiers on Patreon, and each of them has a description explaining what and when patrons will get their content. Since you're apparently not at the lowest or highest tier and you don't have access to the game yet, there is only 1 tier left that would apply here, which is the $5 tier. According to the tier's description, you'll get access 1 week before the public release.

Question is, how do you not know that especially since you said your subscription was for an entire year? As for the rest of your post, you went completely overboard for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Wahhnubis didn't say anything that would justify your rant. Calm down. You'll eventually get to play the new version.

I'm on patreon, I support you but I don't have access, it lacks the logic to support the project.

$10 patrons get instant access to new releases according to tier descriptions. I mean... maybe read the description for your tier before subscribing? 10 bucks is a fair price, and the $5 tier is getting access a week before public release. This isn't anything new and quite common among VN developers on Patreon. So, the only lacking logic I see is within your post.

Sorry, but people actually come here to complain and start ranting on a game that is updated frequently with developers who interact with us. Have you guys ever visited other game threads or their developer's Patreon? You should absolutely be happy for what these guys are doing, because they're doing a much better job than most developers I had the "pleasure" interacting with. Goddamn.

Now, the only thing I see that could be changed for the Patreon tiers is to give $5 patrons access to new content a few days after the $10 patrons. Other than that, I see nothing wrong with their pricing.

 

[desdraw]

There's only 4 tiers on Patreon, and each of them has a description explaining what and when patrons will get their content. Since you're apparently not at the lowest or highest tier and you don't have access to the game yet, there is only 1 tier left that would apply here, which is the $5 tier. According to the tier's description, you'll get access 1 week before the public release.

Question is, how do you not know that especially since you said your subscription was for an entire year? As for the rest of your post, you went completely overboard for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Wahhnubis didn't say anything that would justify your rant. Calm down. You'll eventually get to play the new version.



$10 tier get's instant access to new releases according to tier descriptions. I mean... maybe read the description for your tier before subscribing? 10 bucks is a fair price, and the $5 tier is getting access a week before public release. This isn't anything new and quite common among VN developers on Patreon. So, the only lacking logic I see is within your post.

Sorry, but people actually come here to complain and start ranting on a game that is updated frequently with developers who interact with us. Have you guys ever visited other game threads or their developer's Patreon? You should absolutely be happy for what these guys are doing, because they're doing a much better job than most developers I had the "pleasure" interacting with. Goddamn.

Now, the only thing I see that could be changed for the Patreon tiers is to give $5 patrons access to new content a few days after the $10 patrons. Other than that, I see nothing wrong with their pricing.

Thank you for your comment, from now on we are going to have a new development cycle and we are also going to review all the Patreon tiers and adjust them to improve what we offer.

 

[Waahnubis]

Woah... the thread as been busy.

I structure a few points as to the topic - and also not to poke any fires (again)

Release Strategy
Actually I am no fan at all to any "pay more get more" schemes in games - I frankly hate it. Hence we spread it out by release windows, but not by content differences in the actual game or story. For me that is also simply a nightmare to write.
Anything as a type of a "bonus" should be (IMO) a real extra, like additional renders, WiP stuff, etc. - but the final product, should be exactly that, final... and not sliced and diced in pieces to nickel and dime the fanbase/supporters.

Development Time
Just to add as I hear "it takes too long" from time to time (and I hear this for other projects where I am just a casual supporter as well, so nobody take this directed at him or her please; and I confess I have sung the "why does it take so long" song myself at a time) - the more complex something gets, the more planning and detailed execution it requires. I've seen projects where I got the distinct feeling that the "x months" delay was just an excuse to siphon money from the supporters. So we try to be transparent and upfront about our timeline, keep the supporters involved with WiPs and updates - unfortunately it still takes time to conceptualize, create and package it all into something that ends up as a "release".

Content Questions
The path with Astrid is high on my list, but as Des already said it will be embedded into the story - so the path with Astrid (should you chose to pursue it) will continue. And yes... there will probably be spanking involved.

The photo shoot with the "rich guy" is one way of getting the information that Lara needs - there will be another.

As for the whole Support/No support thing I probably post that one extra (as it will have nothing to do with the game, but a few comments raised my curiosity about overall perception of funding methods).

 

[ChipLecsap]

Woah... the thread as been busy.

I structure a few points as to the topic - and also not to poke any fires (again)

Release Strategy
Actually I am no fan at all to any "pay more get more" schemes in games - I frankly hate it. Hence we spread it out by release windows, but not by content differences in the actual game or story. For me that is also simply a nightmare to write.
Anything as a type of a "bonus" should be (IMO) a real extra, like additional renders, WiP stuff, etc. - but the final product, should be exactly that, final... and not sliced and diced in pieces to nickel and dime the fanbase/supporters.

Development Time
Just to add as I hear "it takes too long" from time to time (and I hear this for other projects where I am just a casual supporter as well, so nobody take this directed at him or her please; and I confess I have sung the "why does it take so long" song myself at a time) - the more complex something gets, the more planning and detailed execution it requires. I've seen projects where I got the distinct feeling that the "x months" delay was just an excuse to siphon money from the supporters. So we try to be transparent and upfront about our timeline, keep the supporters involved with WiPs and updates - unfortunately it still takes time to conceptualize, create and package it all into something that ends up as a "release".

Content Questions
The path with Astrid is high on my list, but as Des already said it will be embedded into the story - so the path with Astrid (should you chose to pursue it) will continue. And yes... there will probably be spanking involved.

The photo shoot with the "rich guy" is one way of getting the information that Lara needs - there will be another.

As for the whole Support/No support thing I probably post that one extra (as it will have nothing to do with the game, but a few comments raised my curiosity about overall perception of funding methods).

I like your posts, even if they are vague, somehow still informative and add to hype a bit.
I wonder about that one, seem like she has the book, at least on the picture looks like it , so I'm curious. However I do think the photoshoot should be the " canon " event. the same way I consider most of the artifact, and dark voice event as a canon, so in my book, like the Astrid scene.

Well, except in the Alley, the canon path is that she total kicked the goons ass.

 

[DashRaider]

I don't think it's bad that the FREE version of the game has limited content, the paid version of the game has more content, but it depends on how it is handled. I see nothing wrong with Animopron. His BITS game is full of amazing things in the free version, and I definitely don't feel limited by minor cosmetic options for supporters during development. For example, I am very satisfied with Wildeer Studio, even if everything takes a long time, its animated scenes are available immediately for everyone as updates. A higher resolution of the animation or a special skin in the animation is for a higher payment level. I have supported him for many years and have no problem with him. But here I'm just disappointed that I have to wait and I don't know how long because the point of my supporting is support the development and play the game. I support Wildeer to see his animation and I see it immediately on the day of publication on his SubscribeStar. I'm still supporting this game, but since I'm paying a small amount, I have to wait and can only see development news. I think supporting other creators is better than here but I like this game.

 

[ouch2020]

Question is, how do you not know that especially since you said your subscription was for an entire year? As for the rest of your post, you went completely overboard for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Wahhnubis didn't say anything that would justify your rant. Calm down. You'll eventually get to play the new version.

You may want to check again. My question was to have a confirmation from the authors of the exact dates foreseen not only for myself, but for everybody else, which is why I ended up including also the public release that then gets on F95.
It has nothing to do with me knowing (or checking, if I did not remember) on what Patreon tier I am and what gives access to, or with you making all kind of calculations to try to find out on which tier I am.

If you look at the post history (this thread is not so long), I was the one that posted to help explain why the problems they had, and that brought from the initial indication of one update a month to one update every up to three months after I subscribed, were somehow logical and certainly understandable, so, I was hardly ever negative about the game or the developers.

But at the same time, other authors (I prefer not to mention the games or authors, not to be accused of going "off thread"), who also make or made a living out of the game, never had problems in answering that type of question about exact dates of availability, and never tried to play sarcasm, even when the question was from people who were only looking for the "public one", and even in cases like one of the games, where the author has almost always kept to "one update a month" schedule and alerted the couple of times it was not going to be the case, so it was kind of public information when it comes out.
And in reality, Desdraw, who is also author of this game (at the start, I thought he was the only author), at least for what I have seen with my past posts till a few days ago, was always interacting positively, even when other people were questioning him more negatively than me.

I am not sure what are you trying to accomplish - in any case, I will look when I have a bit of time to the reply I got from Waahnubis, because it is only fair, but I have no plan to get in any kind of looong sterile polemic.
For all I know, Waahnubis may feel he/she (don't remember any indication about sex) was perfect in the reply that had a part I did not like, and I am not trying to change his/her view.
I offered him/her a bit of feedback so he/she knows not everybody may take positively some things expressed in a certain way in a certain context (I am not against irony and even sarcasm, I use them myself), but it is up to him/her to decide what to do with it (included nothing ).

 

[Waahnubis]

For all I know, Waahnubis may feel he/she (don't remember any indication about sex) was perfect in the reply that had a part I did not like, and I am not trying to change his/her view.
I offered him/her a bit of feedback so he/she knows not everybody may take positively some things expressed in a certain way in a certain context (I am not against irony and even sarcasm, I use them myself), but it is up to him/her to decide what to do with it (included nothing ).

Oh I love a good discussion - so no hard feelings from my end.

 

[Waahnubis]

Also, to talk about Lara, and not just whine here, here is my old work that I created during the covid lockdown at home.
Comics

Nicely done