Daz Animations

[Max Craving]

Hello, i've played game The Artifact Part One and noticed one cool feature – many scenes are animated. Same thing i've seen in Dating My Daughter, but there it was a bit clumsy. In The Artifact, it have been made very cool. How i can do the same?

I've uploaded

You must be registered to see the links

on my cloud.

 

[suo_mynona]

Hello, i've played game The Artifact Part One and noticed one cool feature – many scenes are animated...How i can do the same?

Consider this an animation newbie helping another. The first decision you need to make depends on what your game engine supports. This will either drive you to recording a video sequence for playback, a series of idle animations inside your game engine, or a looping series of static images.

Two of the three are really time consuming to accomplish as all the animation is pre-rendered. If you're using Unity or Unreal as your game engine then you can do real time animation using idle animation sequences; however, you're trading seamless real time animation for the programming complexity of the game engine.

I use RenPy as my game engine and Daz 3D for my rendering so what follows is specific to that. In RenPy you have two choices: a webm video or an image loop. Either way every frame must be pre-rendered. So if a single frame takes you 30 minutes to render and you aim for 30 frames a second for your animation then a simple 10 second animation consists of 300 frames requiring rendering. 300 X 30 = 9000 minutes = 150 hours = 6.25 days...

This is why some game animations are so jerky; they are using a lot less frames to reduce the rendering time.

After you deal with this issue, the technical challenge of doing the renders are simple with many tutorials available on Youtube.

RenPy cookbook:

You must be registered to see the links

Animating in Daz Studio:
Hope this helps.

 

[Max Craving]

Consider this an animation newbie helping another. The first decision you need to make depends on what your game engine supports. This will either drive you to recording a video sequence for playback, a series of idle animations inside your game engine, or a looping series of static images.

Two of the three are really time consuming to accomplish as all the animation is pre-rendered. If you're using Unity or Unreal as your game engine then you can do real time animation using idle animation sequences; however, you're trading seamless real time animation for the programming complexity of the game engine.

I use RenPy as my game engine and Daz 3D for my rendering so what follows is specific to that. In RenPy you have two choices: a webm video or an image loop. Either way every frame must be pre-rendered. So if a single frame takes you 30 minutes to render and you aim for 30 frames a second for your animation then a simple 10 second animation consists of 300 frames requiring rendering. 300 X 30 = 9000 minutes = 150 hours = 6.25 days...

This is why some game animations are so jerky; they are using a lot less frames to reduce the rendering time.

After you deal with this issue, the technical challenge of doing the renders are simple with many tutorials available on Youtube.

RenPy cookbook:

You must be registered to see the links

Animating in Daz Studio:
Hope this helps.

Thank you!

 

[Max Craving]

300 X 30 = 9000 minutes = 150 hours = 6.25 days...

I think it is a reasonable waste of time. What's the whole point of making game? Make it as cool as i can! I think that this animations requires maximum 2-3 seconds, and even less in fast movement scenes.

 

[MikeHershey]

Consider this an animation newbie helping another. The first decision you need to make depends on what your game engine supports. This will either drive you to recording a video sequence for playback, a series of idle animations inside your game engine, or a looping series of static images.

Two of the three are really time consuming to accomplish as all the animation is pre-rendered. If you're using Unity or Unreal as your game engine then you can do real time animation using idle animation sequences; however, you're trading seamless real time animation for the programming complexity of the game engine.

I use RenPy as my game engine and Daz 3D for my rendering so what follows is specific to that. In RenPy you have two choices: a webm video or an image loop. Either way every frame must be pre-rendered. So if a single frame takes you 30 minutes to render and you aim for 30 frames a second for your animation then a simple 10 second animation consists of 300 frames requiring rendering. 300 X 30 = 9000 minutes = 150 hours = 6.25 days...

This is why some game animations are so jerky; they are using a lot less frames to reduce the rendering time.

After you deal with this issue, the technical challenge of doing the renders are simple with many tutorials available on Youtube.

RenPy cookbook:

You must be registered to see the links

Animating in Daz Studio:
Hope this helps.

Thanks for putting things in perspective.
Just a small correct in the calculation. 300*30=9000 seconds at 30s render per frame.
Which is 150 minutes. Over 2 hours to render a 10 second animation. Your point still remains!

 

[suo_mynona]

Just a small correct in the calculation. 300*30=9000 seconds at 30s render per frame. Which is 150 minutes. Over 2 hours to render a 10 second animation. Your point still remains!

Unfortunately, no. I meant minutes. For the game I'm making, it's taken anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 1/2 hrs to render a single frame. 30 minutes was just a reference number. I wish I could afford the hardware to render a frame every 30 seconds.

What you need to do is create some representative scenes and render a few test frames. That should give you an average time to render a single frame. Take that number and use for your estimate:
<frames per second> X <animation length> = Number of frame requiring rendering
<number of frames> x <time to render a frame> = Time to render animation

 

[Studio Errilhl]

Rendering a scene in 30 seconds requires some SERIOUS hardware, or some serious software, given that the available renderers for DAZ is... how to put this... crap. Seriously. Utter garbage. Transfering the scene to other, professional packages, like 3D Studio, or similar, to render there instead will usually give you a lot more omph, and use less time, however there's often a lot of work needing to be done because of model-issues.

 

[Deleted member 136796]

I have a FX 8350 and a 1070 oc 8gb and 32 gb ram, and animation is still a complete waste of time for me. A 2 second animation (60 frames) takes all day to render. As someone who uses their image sets to make money this is not cost effective, I try to put out one image set each month but that usually means I get no break for wasting a couple days to play with animation.

 

[Deleted member 167032]

Can anyone tell me how DMD / Big Brother get their indoor scenes without any or hardly any noise/grain and such a high quality?
I did a scene attached which took 4hrs to render and looks shit. Done in DAZ3d 4.10

 

[Rich]

Can anyone tell me how DMD / Big Brother get their indoor scenes without any or hardly any noise/grain and such a high quality?
I did a scene attached which took 4hrs to render and looks shit. Done in DAZ3d 4.10

From what I've been told, BB uses Ghost Lights quite a bit. Certainly, Celtic1138, who's made a lot of VERY similar-looking renders, uses them extensively.

"More light" is your friend with iRay. In your scene, for example, you could consider removing a wall or ceiling that isn't in view to let in surrounding dome lighting. Or use an IRay Section Node (configured not to block lighting) to slice off an unseen portion if the room doesn't support making walls disappear. Or just position several spotlights off-scene or "above" to add light.

Among other things, your scene looks somewhat "flat" because there aren't any significant shadows. So probably the first thing I'd try is positioning some spotlights "above". Make them moderately large (maybe 100cm x 100cm) to simulate overhead lighting panels, and have them set to a 90 or 120 degree angle, so they'll cover well. They'll need to be pretty bright, of course. I used a grid of ceiling spotlights like this doing renders inside the Daz "Boutique" set, and they worked quite well - better than the mesh lights that were built into the scene. (Note - Daz "understands" spotlights, and can optimize some of its processing for them. Mesh lights, on the other hand, it kind of has to "discover," so they typically take longer to render.)

Bottom line - interior lighting is tough in iRay, because it has so much indirect lighting. (Bounces off walls, ceilings, etc.)

 

[Deleted member 167032]

Geez thx for info... If you use too many lights do you not get a washed out image?
Currently in my scene i use Dome and Sky and insid i have ILPK light source setup.

From what I've been told, BB uses Ghost Lights quite a bit. Certainly, Celtic1138, who's made a lot of VERY similar-looking renders, uses them extensively.

"More light" is your friend with iRay. In your scene, for example, you could consider removing a wall or ceiling that isn't in view to let in surrounding dome lighting. Or use an IRay Section Node (configured not to block lighting) to slice off an unseen portion if the room doesn't support making walls disappear. Or just position several spotlights off-scene or "above" to add light.

Among other things, your scene looks somewhat "flat" because there aren't any significant shadows. So probably the first thing I'd try is positioning some spotlights "above". Make them moderately large (maybe 100cm x 100cm) to simulate overhead lighting panels, and have them set to a 90 or 120 degree angle, so they'll cover well. They'll need to be pretty bright, of course. I used a grid of ceiling spotlights like this doing renders inside the Daz "Boutique" set, and they worked quite well - better than the mesh lights that were built into the scene. (Note - Daz "understands" spotlights, and can optimize some of its processing for them. Mesh lights, on the other hand, it kind of has to "discover," so they typically take longer to render.)

Bottom line - interior lighting is tough in iRay, because it has so much indirect lighting. (Bounces off walls, ceilings, etc.)

 

[Jimbles]

Geez thx for info... If you use too many lights do you not get a washed out image?
Currently in my scene i use Dome and Sky and insid i have ILPK light source setup.

By washout, do you mean the lack of contrast and color such as the image above, or too much light intensity causing everything to turn white? Either way, more lights will help with contrast and color. Also, look into things like three point lighting and other photography tricks to help make your images more dramatic. If your lights are too intense, you can always adjust that in your lighting tab or adjust your render settings. Also, a couple well aimed and properly adjusted (also color adjusted if need be) lights is generally all you need. You don't need to have 50 spotlights in your scene.

I think lighting is one of the hardest parts of learning to make good renders in Daz and it'll take some serious time to learn how to get everything right.

 

[Jimbles]

Unfortunately, no. I meant minutes. For the game I'm making, it's taken anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 1/2 hrs to render a single frame. 30 minutes was just a reference number. I wish I could afford the hardware to render a frame every 30 seconds.

I stumbled across this video a while back ago () It's a little dated, but the logic still holds true. Maybe it can help.

 

[Deleted member 167032]

Yes i added the spot lights about 6 of them and made the lums 10000 each which i think is too much as the render is very white, kinda washed out. BUT it's still very blurry or not clear and crisp. It's as if there is a opaque shoot over the lens which i am not using DOF at all and leave the camera settings as default.

I am also trying to render at 2560x1080 for instance and Max samples of around 600 which takes long to render.
I am going to lessen the lumen tonight and render at same resolution but 1200Max samples.

Would you recommend higher resolution and lower Max Samples or both higher res and max samples?

By washout, do you mean the lack of contrast and color such as the image above, or too much light intensity causing everything to turn white? Either way, more lights will help with contrast and color. Also, look into things like three point lighting and other photography tricks to help make your images more dramatic. If your lights are too intense, you can always adjust that in your lighting tab or adjust your render settings. Also, a couple well aimed and properly adjusted (also color adjusted if need be) lights is generally all you need. You don't need to have 50 spotlights in your scene.

I think lighting is one of the hardest parts of learning to make good renders in Daz and it'll take some serious time to learn how to get everything right.

 

[Jimbles]

Yes i added the spot lights about 6 of them and made the lums 10000 each which i think is too much as the render is very white, kinda washed out. BUT it's still very blurry or not clear and crisp. It's as if there is a opaque shoot over the lens which i am not using DOF at all and leave the camera settings as default.

I am also trying to render at 2560x1080 for instance and Max samples of around 600 which takes long to render.
I am going to lessen the lumen tonight and render at same resolution but 1200Max samples.

Would you recommend higher resolution and lower Max Samples or both higher res and max samples?

So, generally, I would say rendering a higher resolution and reducing it is faster than doubling your max samples and is pretty effective at creating a pretty decent render. However, 600 samples really isn't a whole lot especially when creating complex scenes with a lot of different lights.

My recommendation kind of depends. If you're just wanting to create some decent looking renders for personal use like improving your Daz skills or whatever then probably just increase your render resolution and reduce them back to 720p or whatever after. If it's something you want to do professionally/semi-professionally (creating games/comics), then increase resolution and samples or consider outsourcing your rendering, at least until you can upgrade your hardware.

 

[Deleted member 167032]

IT's for a VN game so yeah it has to look good.
Ive seen some developers use backgrounds that are not very good quality but their models are high quality. Seems they did them seperately and photo shopped in the scene, seems to work pretty well as the readers eyes are fixed on the character model and not the background that much.

Below is a scene i did but i have a way better render than the one here. This was my first try and as you can see not light enough. Too dark.
I like the shadows in below image but if i could only get rid of the grain then i think it would be perfect quality for what i am after.
So i have done this before so cannot understand why i am getting this fuzzy washed out image i am getting now with my latest scene.

So, generally, I would say rendering a higher resolution and reducing it is faster than doubling your max samples and is pretty effective at creating a pretty decent render. However, 600 samples really isn't a whole lot especially when creating complex scenes with a lot of different lights.

My recommendation kind of depends. If you're just wanting to create some decent looking renders for personal use like improving your Daz skills or whatever then probably just increase your render resolution and reduce them back to 720p or whatever after. If it's something you want to do professionally/semi-professionally (creating games/comics), then increase resolution and samples or consider outsourcing your rendering, at least until you can upgrade your hardware.

 

[Deleted member 167032]

Would you suggest something like 4500resolution and 1200Max Samples or even higher?

What in your opinion is good hardware?

Intel i7, GTX1080, 32GB ram?
I have an AMD 8core CPU, 20Gb ram and GTX1060 3GB GPU.

 

[Jimbles]

Would you suggest something like 4500resolution and 1200Max Samples or even higher?

What in your opinion is good hardware?

Intel i7, GTX1080, 32GB ram?
I have an AMD 8core CPU, 20Gb ram and GTX1060 3GB GPU.

That's pretty decent hardware (of course a 1080 is always nice). I thought you were cutting back on samples to reduce render time. I'd say set your max samples to around 10,000 and resolution to 2 or 4k (test it to find which one works better for your system) and set your max render time to 45 minutes, or however long you're willing to wait. Then reduce the image back to 1080 or 720 and that should eliminate a lot of the grain (unfortunately it also removes a lot of fine details too).

Your second image has a very intense environmental light (I'm guessing the sun). Which creates that nice contrast and shadows. A little bit of fill lighting will also help decrease the gain, but it also takes away from your shadows a little bit.

Here's a render I just pulled:


It still has a lot of corrections to be made, my fill light is casting a shadow to the right, I also don't like the shadow that's being casted on her chest by her arm and the double shadow of the lamp in the background. However, I think it shows the importance of lighting. This was rendered in 1080 because I use 1080 for my tests and I'll usually do the final render in 4k, so it still has a little bit of grain (the DoF doesn't help either). This scene has 4 lights in it. As far as settings go I try to keep things relatively simple because it's faster for me to touch my scene up in photoshop than screw around with lighting forever. However, my key is a white light at 115k lumens, my fill is a light blue at 70k lumens, my backlight is a white light at 90k lumens, and I have another white scene light on the wall to reduce shadows.

So my overall recommendation would be make things brighter and give it some more samples.

 

[Deleted member 167032]

Thx Jimbles

Geez dude that image looks great... Are you serious about the Max samples? 10000?? surely that will take a whole day? OH wait you said this "set your max render time to 45 minutes" erm.. you mean i can force my render to a specific time? I did not know that.

Yes, for the image with dude on couch i wanted the outside light source, the sun to cast a morning shadow feel. Just the graininess i still would like to be removed in that image, otherwise it's nice.

What i have tried last night was render the scene in 3Dlight which looks pretty cool and then in the correct poses render only my character models with Nvidia Iray higher quality. I'll put them together in Photoshop and have a look to see what it looks like.

I will definitely try what you have suggested regarding the lighting.

I know my system can create good renders as seen in below model ( Ann ) original render is 4k . Doing a indoor room type scene obviously kills it a bit and i need to work at it. NOW once i have the scene i want rendered waxed and happy will this type of techniques apply for all future scenes or do they differ?

 

[Jimbles]

Thx Jimbles

Geez dude that image looks great... Are you serious about the Max samples? 10000?? surely that will take a whole day? OH wait you said this "set your max render time to 45 minutes" erm.. you mean i can force my render to a specific time? I did not know that.

You're welcome, anything I can do to help. Thanks, always nice to hear.
If you look under your render settings you should see a slider for max time (in seconds). It's set for 2 hours by default but you can adjust it for however long you want (up to something crazy like 5 months).

Yes, for the image with dude on couch i wanted the outside light source, the sun to cast a morning shadow feel. Just the graininess i still would like to be removed in that image, otherwise it's nice.

That's a good looking render. The lighting provides a nice contrast. The only criticism I'll offer on it is his right hand (and maybe his butt) is hovering, that's alright though mine has the same problem if you look at the thumb on the right hand you can see its not on on her skirt. Just a simple detail that often gets overlooked because we get so focused on other aspects, especially when people are getting started in posing and rendering.

What i have tried last night was render the scene in 3Dlight which looks pretty cool and then in the correct poses render only my character models with Nvidia Iray higher quality. I'll put them together in Photoshop and have a look to see what it looks like.

Sounds like that might work out, you'll have to share your results if they come out well.

I will definitely try what you have suggested regarding the lighting.

I know my system can create good renders as seen in below model ( Ann ) original render is 4k . Doing a indoor room type scene obviously kills it a bit and i need to work at it. NOW once i have the scene i want rendered waxed and happy will this type of techniques apply for all future scenes or do they differ?

Good stuff, I hope it works out for you. You definitely have a pretty decent rig, one thing I forgot, make sure your nvidia drivers are up to date. When I was using my 960, my drivers were way out of date and when I updated them it seemed like it it cut my render times in half. Indoor scenes aren't fun, but that's because there's considerably more to render (walls and such) plus there's generally less lighting and Iray loves light. That render definitely came out really nice. Smooth, no grain, and nice coloration, good job.

The lighting technique is pretty universal (which is why it's so common in photography and videography), but some tweaking is generally necessary. For example the fill doesn't have to be blue, it's just what I wanted for the scene.
Here's a couple examples just playing with Daz:
With a red fill (NSFW). 4k
At night, but it does need some adjusting. 2k
Outdoors (at least I think I used it in this scene, but I'm not positive anymore). 4k -> 1080

As far as rendering high resolution and reducing to reduce fireflies and grain, that works pretty much all the time. Also, after a while you'll figure out you'll become more familiar with how long it takes your machine to render each type of scene, so you can tweak your render settings from there.

Edit: Reduced the third image to 1080, I think the 4k image was too big.