Dear God Please End This Intro Thread

[ladelame]

Is there a way for us to make it clear to the dev community that no one wants 258 text boxes when they start a new game?

I feel like nearly all of the games that I demo, I quit before I even get past the intro. If I feel a wall of text coming, I just start clicking as fast as I can. If I'm STILL spamming left click 2 minutes later, you've ruined your game and I'm done.

I don't mind a story, in fact I prefer one. A good one. A good story in a video game doesnt start with 3,000 words of exposition. This is a porn game. I literally have my dick in my hand. I appreciate that you have a story to tell me, great... tell me the story IN THE GAME if you feel the need to tell it. Not with 28 minutes of narration. That's not even good design in a normal piece of media where the audience isn't literally holding their dicks in their hands.

Imagine a movie that starts as the main character wakes up with amnesia. Then a (presumably imaginary) sexy succubus appears who immediately launches into a 48 minute long monologue of raw exposition explaining to the character and audience what's happening. Now imagine a porn that starts like that. That's what these games are.

 

[polywog]

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Avaron1974]

This is a porn game.

No, these are adult games some of which contain porn content.

A lot of them now are getting more and more story based as more of us are bored with straight up porn which we can get anywhere.

If it straight porn you want then download those games only.

The short answer would probably be deal with it, it's not going to change.

 

[ladelame]

You must be registered to see the links

I'm not sure if you thought you were providing some excellent counter point to what I was saying, or if you were providing an example of how I'm right... because the average Star Wars opening crawl is about one to two minutes long.

Star Wars fans are so beautifully obsessive, they've even created a chart for me of the exact word count of each crawl:

You must be registered to see the links

(75-88 words).

A decent estimation of a totally full ren'py text window is maybe like 44-60 words. So an entire Star Wars crawl, presumably your ideal example of prolonged exposition launching a story, would take one to two text cards in a Ren'py game.

I agree with you, that would be way more ideal. Maybe even a little short. Regardless, tell the rest of the story in the game.

 

[ladelame]

A lot of them now are getting more and more story based as more of us are bored with straight up porn which we can get anywhere.

If it straight porn you want then download those games only.

The short answer would probably be deal with it, it's not going to change.

You are missing the point entirely. This is not about story vs porn. This is about good story telling vs bad. Like 2/3rds of my OP is dedicated to explaining that. This is another case of someone on the internet not reading what someone else said and arguing against some opponent they've made up in their head.

Good story telling in an interactive medium happens interactively. Even in movies, the rule is: Show, don't tell. Shit man, even in a book a wall of exposition is a stretch. In other words, use your medium to tell your audience what you want them to know, don't just have a wall of exposition explaining things.

 

[W65]

That's why man invented the skip key.

 

[viewfinderlife]

@ladelame hold the control button down. i understand you don't mind story... but for your purpose, control button.

 

[ladelame]

That's why man invented the skip key.

@ladelame hold the control button down. i understand you don't mind story... but for your purpose, control button.

No.

I don't want a porn game with no story. I want a porn game with a well told story.

C'mon fellas. Pick up what I'm laying down here. How many times I gotta repeat this?

 

[Lucius Drake]

I feel like

in fact I prefer

like you said: it's YOU. Not the devs. If you don't want an intro, skip it. Not everyone wants to fap right from the start. I believe, the most people want to be dragged into the game, the story and later the sex.
If YOU don't want that, watch porn or pay a dev to make you a game.

Somethimes the story is so complex, the dev CAN'T simply describe it with 2 sentences. Take the game Bad Memories for example. The whole first version tells you a little part of the story, without sex. If @recreation decided to jump right in after a minimal intro, everyone would talk the game down because no one would understand whats happening.

so take it or leave it: live with long intros or pay a dev to make you a game with short intro.

 

[viewfinderlife]

I didn't miss the point, you did. No one is going to change their story for you. Read as much intro as you want, then hold the control button down, boom, your personal problem is solved.

 

[DarthSeduction]

No.

I don't want a porn game with no story. I want a porn game with a well told story.

C'mon fellas. Pick up what I'm laying down here. How many times I gotta repeat this?

The problem is that you're laying down is so vague that you're not actually saying anything actionable.

If instead you were to explain that Popular Game, Man of the House, is wrong for taking the first 5 minutes of the game to tell us a short synopsis of each character and their motivations, rather than allowing those characters to convey that through the story and gameplay, then you'd be cooking with gas.

If you find a problem it's important to be specific, give details and examples, and provide alternatives. So, going back to my example, Man of the house tells us who every character is, and how they behave. The proper way to do that would be to have the story start on a scene that would showcase something of everyone's personality. So, you start on a breakfast scene. You come downstairs and mom is cooking up some eggs and bacon, she tells you it will be ready soon, and asks you to go get your sisters. You go to get Ashley first, because she's the sweet one, so it makes more sense that he'd put veronica off till last. She answers her door, all hugs and friendliness to her big bro, and the two of you go downstairs, then you go to veronica, knock, knock again, finally you have to enter her room, she's still asleep in a cocktail dress from the night before, you shake her awake, she wakes up, blows up on you both for waking her and for entering her room without permission, probably accuses you of being a pervert, and you tell her to get fucked and go back to the dining room, where mom is serving breakfast. Mom asks about Ashley's schooling, finds out she's struggling on a few subjects, you offer to help, mom is pleased but expresses a desire to see you do something with your life, you mention that you're looking for a job, then she turns to veronica who's still grumpy, asks her how work is going, she grunts more than anything, etc.

Boom, no exposition, and we've got a good idea of the family dynamic, we've been introduced to all the characters, and we know a little about everyone's personality.

That's how you start a game. Not boring expositionary dialogue, but character interaction that lets the audience engage with the content on a personal level. You don't get emotionally attached to an encyclopedia entry about a person, you get emotionally attached to interactions with them.

 

[ladelame]

I didn't miss the point, you did. No one is going to change their story for you. Read as much intro as you want, then hold the control button down, boom, your personal problem is solved.

No, you did. Apparently I'm talking to porno-game idiots. [HURR DURR PUSH F TO PAY RESPECTS AND SPY IN THE SHOWER]
Sorry, my bad. Go back to your hovels, boys. Sorry for trying to inject a tiny scrap of thought into your 58 page exposition vomit about how sexy nymph slaves are overtaking the sexy angels.

God damn. My mistake.

 

[ladelame]

The problem is that you're laying down is so vague that you're not actually saying anything actionable.

If instead you were to explain that Popular Game, Man of the House, is wrong for taking the first 5 minutes of the game to tell us a short synopsis of each character and their motivations, rather than allowing those characters to convey that through the story and gameplay, then you'd be cooking with gas.

If you find a problem it's important to be specific, give details and examples, and provide alternatives. So, going back to my example, Man of the house tells us who every character is, and how they behave. The proper way to do that would be to have the story start on a scene that would showcase something of everyone's personality. So, you start on a breakfast scene. You come downstairs and mom is cooking up some eggs and bacon, she tells you it will be ready soon, and asks you to go get your sisters. You go to get Ashley first, because she's the sweet one, so it makes more sense that he'd put veronica off till last. She answers her door, all hugs and friendliness to her big bro, and the two of you go downstairs, then you go to veronica, knock, knock again, finally you have to enter her room, she's still asleep in a cocktail dress from the night before, you shake her awake, she wakes up, blows up on you both for waking her and for entering her room without permission, probably accuses you of being a pervert, and you tell her to get fucked and go back to the dining room, where mom is serving breakfast. Mom asks about Ashley's schooling, finds out she's struggling on a few subjects, you offer to help, mom is pleased but expresses a desire to see you do something with your life, you mention that you're looking for a job, then she turns to veronica who's still grumpy, asks her how work is going, she grunts more than anything, etc.

Boom, no exposition, and we've got a good idea of the family dynamic, we've been introduced to all the characters, and we know a little about everyone's personality.

That's how you start a game. Not boring expositionary dialogue, but character interaction that lets the audience engage with the content on a personal level. You don't get emotionally attached to an encyclopedia entry about a person, you get emotionally attached to interactions with them.

It's not vague, it's literally just succinct writing. Topic which you've written like 2,000 words about. I'm starting to understand how this came about. This community cares more about their own voice than the experience of their audience.

 

[Winterfire]

But... What if it is a text based game?

 

[ladelame]

This thread:

I think writers are expressing to much voice at their reader's expense

LET ME POST 45 PARAGRAPHS ABOUT WHY THATS WRONG

Yeah, that.

LET ME POST 82 PARAGRAPHS ABOUT WHY THATS WRONG.

 

[Duke Greene]

Huge info dumps suck. They sucked in Metal Gear Solid and they still suck in Fucking My Mother and My Super Hot Sister #3264.

I think that's what the OP was trying to convey (a sentiment I agree with) but it could have been more concise, ironically enough.

 

[recreation]

@ladelame keep calm dude, no need to get upset only because people don't understand what you mean.
You'll only start another shitstorm thread (they are quite popular lately)...

I think I know what you mean. Some Dev's overdo it with the intro, but there are also others who pop you right into the game and leave you guessing, even let you name npcs you know nothing about which makes no sense imo.
You also have to differentiate: Is it a story game with some adult stuff, or is it an adult game with some story.
It's hard to find a middle way and if you're making a story heavy game, you can't simply let the story tell itself. It's like @DarthSeduction said, you have to set up/introduce the characters to the player and you have to set the mood of the game right and that's not an easy task. Sometimes a dialogue doesn't make sense in the intro and it feels irrelevant and unnecessary, but later in the game you find out that it was actually an important hint for the story.

But as I said, some Dev's do go a bit overboard with the intro. I just hope I'm not one of them.

 

[DarthSeduction]

It's not vague, it's literally just succinct writing. Topic which you've written like 2,000 words about. I'm starting to understand how this came about. This community cares more about their own voice than the experience of their audience.

Read the responses to your comment and tell me that you were succinct rather than vague again. I understood you, because to an extent we seem to agree. But no one else did, in fact, they thought you were bullshitting about liking story and just asking us to give you porn instead.

Yes, it took more words to get that meaning across. But I guarantee no one is going to read my post and think I meant that I don't like story. However, after reading your response to my post, I now question if you do.

 

[viewfinderlife]

No I really understood, but short of him/her/futa writing it's own, the point is, if you don't want to read beyond what you've read, control button or GTFO. Simple as that. Don't tell me you're sitting dick in hand and then pontificate about a desire for succinct writing.

if you want change, take your dick and put it back in your pants, write up a story, find someone to render scenes and characters, someone to code it all together and put it out as content. rinse and repeat.

 

[PirateWorks]

Is there a way for us to make it clear to the dev community that no one wants 258 text boxes when they start a new game?

I feel like nearly all of the games that I demo, I quit before I even get past the intro. If I feel a wall of text coming, I just start clicking as fast as I can. If I'm STILL spamming left click 2 minutes later, you've ruined your game and I'm done.

I don't mind a story, in fact I prefer one. A good one. A good story in a video game doesnt start with 3,000 words of exposition. This is a porn game. I literally have my dick in my hand. I appreciate that you have a story to tell me, great... tell me the story IN THE GAME if you feel the need to tell it. Not with 28 minutes of narration. That's not even good design in a normal piece of media where the audience isn't literally holding their dicks in their hands.

Imagine a movie that starts as the main character wakes up with amnesia. Then a (presumably imaginary) sexy succubus appears who immediately launches into a 48 minute long monologue of raw exposition explaining to the character and audience what's happening. Now imagine a porn that starts like that. That's what these games are.

So according to you, how long exactly should a game intro be, and why?

Whatever your answer may be, you will find people that don't agree with it. Just stating a disagreement won't lead to anything. Try to provide constructive criticism instead.