Developer In Need: Games with Good Story

[Yazen_]

Hey there, I'm currently writing the first game I'm trying to develop and release in here. I just wanna gather a lot of material to review and take reference of in order to create a quality game that players would enjoy playing.

What games have you played that contains a good story? What did you like the most about it?

Another question that comes into mind is that, how many hours of content should an explicit game have?

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

https://f95zone.to/threads/best-written-games.138642

As for how many hours, well as long as you can furnish each of them with a good amount of content, I don't see why I should set a limit. I don't think I've ever played a game where I thought "man, this is good but I want to get to the ending already". At most it'd be "damn, it's getting late/early and I still haven't seen everything, gonna be picking it up again tonight though".

 

[Yazen_]

https://f95zone.to/threads/best-written-games.138642

As for how many hours, well as long as you can furnish each of them with a good amount of content, I don't see why I should set a limit. I don't think I've ever played a game where I thought "man, this is good but I want to get to the ending already". At most it'd be "damn, it's getting late/early and I still haven't seen everything, gonna be picking it up again tonight though".

Looks like I've missed this thread. Thanks for the link

And I see, I guess as long as I keep it engaging then there would be no reason for anyone to complain about the length of the game and its contents. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

[Ophanim]

Oh, hello again! Back with another thread?

Glad to see Monster Girl Quest is on that list btw It's not perfect or anything, but I would have recced it if it wasn't there, because it kinda proved to me that porn games weren't just dubious flash animations for guys back when I was tiny teen. It has a set main character, and doesn't present much in the way of choices, while structuring the story as a kind of fantasy road trip. Mostly what it has is verisimilitude, because it focuses on human/monstergirl interactions, and the roadtrip structure makes seeing different ways in which humans and monsters interact fun and engaging. The main characters are consistent, have defined emotional growth over the course of the game, and have enough conflict to not make them getting together a boring slog to watch. The main character has a mother, an adoptive uncle he hates, and an aunt on his mother's side, and all of them are relevant to the plot despite him not sleeping with any of them.

Basically, the themes of the story line up with the content, so it mostly just seems to make sense when you play it. It could be a reasonable kinetic novel without any smut beyond what Luka does with Alice, and it would work fine. Meanwhile, the smutty puzzle combat with constant bad end potential serves to enhance the story and give it a sense of stakes while also contributing to the worldbuilding, rather than distracting from it.

If I had any criticisms of the story itself as an adult, it's that the emotional heart of the story stops dead after the second part, because Luka and Alice's relationship arc was basically done by the end of the second game. It tries to transition from a 'JRPG Hero X Demon Lord, road trip romance' plot into a big damn save the world plot, and it doesn't do it very cleanly, I would say.

This kind of relates to your question about how long a game should be. I would say long enough to do what it needs to, but not so long that you start repeating yourself. Too short and the pacing goes to hell, and you risk important character beats feeling anticlimactic. Too long and your intended story climax will get more of a 'finally, thank fuck we can all go home now' kind of reaction, because readers get worn down by the repetitive agonizing over every single plot point. In MGQ's case, if your story centers on a relationship arc with big plot things happening alongside it, then have a plan for what to do when they eventually do get together and you have to write them as a couple, otherwise a core theme of the plot will detach itself like a messy sporting injury.

 

[Deleted member 5410619]

As i am very picky:
https://f95zone.to/threads/omnilord-v0-112a-theotheryuggoth.119721/
https://f95zone.to/threads/lab-rats-v1-0-vren.1394/
https://f95zone.to/threads/lab-rats-2-v0-51-1-vren.7260/
https://f95zone.to/threads/the-evil...round-append-v2-08-osanagocoronokimini.92201/
https://f95zone.to/threads/hypno-family-trainer-v0-1-2-hf-trainer.1456/
https://f95zone.to/threads/snow-daze-the-music-of-winter-v1-6-cypress-zeta.142/
https://f95zone.to/threads/patter-ch-2-part-1-kalloway.107835/
https://f95zone.to/threads/hentai-high-school-v1-10-3-5-hhs.1016/

 

[Icarus Media]

Another thread?

My best advice is to begin rather than trying to gather data and wait for the right time. It's good to have a little bit of knowledge but sometimes people can suffer analysis paralysis, they want to know as much as possible so they feel safe and reassured, then they want to find the 'right' time to go ahead and do it.

But part of development, hell part of anything in life that isn't the cookie cutter wife and husband, dog, 2 kids and white picket fence house in the 'burbs is about risk, better to start the journey than not start at all, if you start and it's not the right time or market, or fetishes, you can reorientate yourself on the path. But you have to start walking it sometime.

Classic Example:

(I had this one second hand told to me, and maybe he's just bullshitting me to make himself look good but who knows) One of my friends from school, well more of an acquaintance really but he works near where I do, goes to property seminars, trying to be more successful etc etc, did it work? Yes and no, he bought and rents out 2 static caravans in Wales, not exactly Trump level of properties but....it maybe it gave him the confidence to do it. Thing was he tells me there was a guy there who'd been going to seminars like that for 19 years and was now in his late 50's, and he was proud enough to tell my mate that he did but when asked how many properties he had he said 'I'm wait for the right time in the market'. He didn't have any, and that was a few years ago so I doubt he has any now.

Might not be open world AAA studio gaming, maybe you have to be the caravan equivalent and start off small, but you need to make the start. From the threads I can tell you want to get everything right before launching into this, that can be a good thing, but most of the stuff you get right comes from enduring the waves and then patching the hull up stronger next time.

'A man whose armour is shiny, is a man who had not had his mettle tested' - looks good on paper, but we don't know if it'll hold up. So get in there and get that armour hit, take the blows, get it tarnished. If you endure, and you're still standing, then you'll know if everything was right.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

'A man whose armour is shiny, is a man who had not had his mettle tested'

Or he is just that good at evading the blows.

 

[Gwedelino]

With everybody giving various and different answers to each OP's topic I hope we won't end up with a game looking like Dr Frankenstein's Monster.

 

[Yazen_]

Oh, hello again! Back with another thread?

Glad to see Monster Girl Quest is on that list btw It's not perfect or anything, but I would have recced it if it wasn't there, because it kinda proved to me that porn games weren't just dubious flash animations for guys back when I was tiny teen. It has a set main character, and doesn't present much in the way of choices, while structuring the story as a kind of fantasy road trip. Mostly what it has is verisimilitude, because it focuses on human/monstergirl interactions, and the roadtrip structure makes seeing different ways in which humans and monsters interact fun and engaging. The main characters are consistent, have defined emotional growth over the course of the game, and have enough conflict to not make them getting together a boring slog to watch. The main character has a mother, an adoptive uncle he hates, and an aunt on his mother's side, and all of them are relevant to the plot despite him not sleeping with any of them.

Basically, the themes of the story line up with the content, so it mostly just seems to make sense when you play it. It could be a reasonable kinetic novel without any smut beyond what Luka does with Alice, and it would work fine. Meanwhile, the smutty puzzle combat with constant bad end potential serves to enhance the story and give it a sense of stakes while also contributing to the worldbuilding, rather than distracting from it.

If I had any criticisms of the story itself as an adult, it's that the emotional heart of the story stops dead after the second part, because Luka and Alice's relationship arc was basically done by the end of the second game. It tries to transition from a 'JRPG Hero X Demon Lord, road trip romance' plot into a big damn save the world plot, and it doesn't do it very cleanly, I would say.

This kind of relates to your question about how long a game should be. I would say long enough to do what it needs to, but not so long that you start repeating yourself. Too short and the pacing goes to hell, and you risk important character beats feeling anticlimactic. Too long and your intended story climax will get more of a 'finally, thank fuck we can all go home now' kind of reaction, because readers get worn down by the repetitive agonizing over every single plot point. In MGQ's case, if your story centers on a relationship arc with big plot things happening alongside it, then have a plan for what to do when they eventually do get together and you have to write them as a couple, otherwise a core theme of the plot will detach itself like a messy sporting injury.

Thanks for your response! While the concept of MGQ and the one I'm trying to make is different, I do agree with the realism behind how the characters would interact based of their own personalities and dynamic in their relationships like how you talked about the interactions between humans and monsters. I already have a rough idea about how things will play out through the story and I do intend to take things a bit slow but progressively. But even after the main story finishes (after the MC successfully corrupts his family), I do plan to expand it in a way where the concept continues, in which case, corruption and depravity that would spread through the main character's girl friends and potential love interests. Each of which having their own unique storyline, quest, and events. I think I can go deeper than just "finding the perpetrator that had set the MC up and bring shame to his name" as the MC's motivation to investigate and look for clues and evidence to expel the guy that got him kicked out of the university in the first place.

But anyway, if you've been following my threads, I've been dropping bits and pieces in my game's story but it's been actively changing as I keep on writing the narrative of the whole game. So I figured out after I got all the research and questions satiated I'd focus on writing the story in it's full form before making posts about updates on the progress on it. The main story isn't gonna be very long but won't be very short either. Just enough to go through the whole arc of 2 secondary characters that will kickstart the MC's descent to depravity that would make him more power hungry/greedy that could open up more routes for already introduced characters in the story that players can't interact yet with.

I thank you for your detailed response once again, it is much appreciated I do hope to apply the concept you've shared to my own at least to avoid the feeling of inconsistency and difference once the story opens up the branches to other planned routes.

 

[Yazen_]

Another thread?

My best advice is to begin rather than trying to gather data and wait for the right time. It's good to have a little bit of knowledge but sometimes people can suffer analysis paralysis, they want to know as much as possible so they feel safe and reassured, then they want to find the 'right' time to go ahead and do it.

But part of development, hell part of anything in life that isn't the cookie cutter wife and husband, dog, 2 kids and white picket fence house in the 'burbs is about risk, better to start the journey than not start at all, if you start and it's not the right time or market, or fetishes, you can reorientate yourself on the path. But you have to start walking it sometime.

Classic Example:

(I had this one second hand told to me, and maybe he's just bullshitting me to make himself look good but who knows) One of my friends from school, well more of an acquaintance really but he works near where I do, goes to property seminars, trying to be more successful etc etc, did it work? Yes and no, he bought and rents out 2 static caravans in Wales, not exactly Trump level of properties but....it maybe it gave him the confidence to do it. Thing was he tells me there was a guy there who'd been going to seminars like that for 19 years and was now in his late 50's, and he was proud enough to tell my mate that he did but when asked how many properties he had he said 'I'm wait for the right time in the market'. He didn't have any, and that was a few years ago so I doubt he has any now.

Might not be open world AAA studio gaming, maybe you have to be the caravan equivalent and start off small, but you need to make the start. From the threads I can tell you want to get everything right before launching into this, that can be a good thing, but most of the stuff you get right comes from enduring the waves and then patching the hull up stronger next time.

'A man whose armour is shiny, is a man who had not had his mettle tested' - looks good on paper, but we don't know if it'll hold up. So get in there and get that armour hit, take the blows, get it tarnished. If you endure, and you're still standing, then you'll know if everything was right.

I see, thank you. I know I've been posting a lot of threads recently regarding about the game I wanna create, while there's not a lot of progress on the art and programming aspect right now, I have been writing the story outline, sequences, jot down ideas that pop in my head occasionally and write scenarios that would be interesting for the readers to my perspective. I've written part of the prologue and had been consulting a friend that I met in here to ask for his opinions about the stuff I wrote. I believe that is progress. I do understand that instead of asking what's good and what's not, it would be better if I just create what I have in mind with pure initial structure and see how people would receive and respond to it.

At this point, I'm still not very familiar with the things what people would consider good or bad since I've only played quite a few amount of games, some I truly enjoyed and some I just played soullessly. I have a basic understanding of what I want though and I do plan to make it happen. I guess there's some fear that settles in when it comes to considering the variables I have to mind when planning to make a great if not good first release of a game. Right now, the skeleton of what I'm building is far less complex on what I initially wanted to create and it's doable. It'll just take extensive amount of effort which I know I'm willing to endure. This is my career path after all. I do think of this project as a hobby on top of trying to kick start my career as a game developer. I don't do much with my time but work on projects one after another after all. I find it quite a bit entertaining and learning new things challenging.

But yeah this thread settles what I need for the time being, people do reach out to give me tips and guides on how to write a good story or what ideas should be interesting to put in porn games in a niche sense which is very much appreciated. Thanks again for the tip!

Less talking and more work for me

 

[Yazen_]

Or he is just that good at evading the blows.

Who in their right mind would evade blows

 

[Yazen_]

With everybody giving various and different answers to each OP's topic I hope we won't end up with a game looking like Dr Frankenstein's Monster.

Nahhh it's cool. It's good to have an open mind. Having a large arsenal of knowledge leads to formulation of new ones It could be good or bad but it heavily depends on how you utilize it. I think it's basic knowledge to not just piece one thing from an entirely different thing though. That would just make the story sloppy for me. I do plan on making various niche of games. Maybe incest and corruption for the first, fantasy and time travel on the second, psychological horror and thriller on the third and so on. Having ideas is fun and all, exploring your options will make for interesting kind of stories. I don't intend to create the same thing over and over.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[...] better to start the journey than not start at all, if you start and it's not the right time or market, or fetishes, you can reorientate yourself on the path. But you have to start walking it sometime.

Is it ever the right time, market, fetishes, story setting, game mechanism, or whatever else ?

I'm sure that for your friend it wasn't the right time to buy his two caravans, and so, who care ?
Like you implied, for most thing, the right time is "now". Perhaps he could have waited one year more, and now own one more caravan for the same price. But it's "perhaps", and by buying when he did, for one year he had the income from those two caravans, right ? Not like the guy who wait since 19 years and have earned nothing yet. Hell, most house loans would be over 20 years... If he started the first year, he would get full benefit one year later. Saving the earnings, he would also be able to buy another house with a way shorter loan. But since he wait for the right moment, he have nothing...

The same apply when it come to game making, as long as you have the time for this, starts now, period.
Most games need two-three years before you complete them, so it's not the right time now, and so ? Who know if it will not become the must have story setting during the game last year of development and, yours being near to its end and now relatively know, you'll catch all the attention and money.
And it don't limit to the story setting, it's also true for the quality of the writing/CGs. Starts now with something average, and when you'll starts your next game, with all the knowledge you now acquired, you'll be already known, and also trusted since you now have a finished game. If you were cautious with what you earned, you'll also be able to buy the top computer of the moment, what would already greatly improve the quality of your CGs if it's 3D renders.

Yazen_ at worse, if you don't feel confident enough with your capacities, starts with something else that your great story, keeping it for your second game, once you've improved in all fields.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Or he is just that good at evading the blows.

You can't evade the blood of your enemies, and even less the mud of the battle field. So, if your armor is shinny, it mean that you pass more time polishing it, than you pass time training in it.

 

[Yazen_]

Is it ever the right time, market, fetishes, story setting, game mechanism, or whatever else ?

I'm sure that for your friend it wasn't the right time to buy his two caravans, and so, who care ?
Like you implied, for most thing, the right time is "now". Perhaps he could have waited one year more, and now own one more caravan for the same price. But it's "perhaps", and by buying when he did, for one year he had the income from those two caravans, right ? Not like the guy who wait since 19 years and have earned nothing yet. Hell, most house loans would be over 20 years... If he started the first year, he would get full benefit one year later. Saving the earnings, he would also be able to buy another house with a way shorter loan. But since he wait for the right moment, he have nothing...

The same apply when it come to game making, as long as you have the time for this, starts now, period.
Most games need two-three years before you complete them, so it's not the right time now, and so ? Who know if it will not become the must have story setting during the game last year of development and, yours being near to its end and now relatively know, you'll catch all the attention and money.
And it don't limit to the story setting, it's also true for the quality of the writing/CGs. Starts now with something average, and when you'll starts your next game, with all the knowledge you now acquired, you'll be already known, and also trusted since you now have a finished game. If you were cautious with what you earned, you'll also be able to buy the top computer of the moment, what would already greatly improve the quality of your CGs if it's 3D renders.

Yazen_ at worse, if you don't feel confident enough with your capacities, starts with something else that your great story, keeping it for your second game, once you've improved in all fields.

Well I'm indeed trying to start now at small steps. I plan to develop the game on the upcoming year. I've been watching renpy tutorials and saving a lot of reference materials that I could use to make my assets much more easier to make. My writing is going through stages rn, I still have a lot to fix and adjust, while the coding part is something I wanna partially practice after my current projects right now, I'll be able to do it on weekends and make test games that I wouldn't release. Just simple ones that would make me understand the capability of the renpy engine and what crafty ways can I use it to create a gameplay mechanic

Thanks to your and Icarus's words of encouragement! I'll make sure to myself that I stick with my plan no matter how hard the struggle is.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Who in their right mind would evade blows

Someone who doesn't want to be killed, i'm guessing.

You can't evade the blood of your enemies, and even less the mud of the battle field.

Maybe nobody actually tried. Like, real hard.
Maybe you are just skilled enough to slash them in such a way that would control where the blood flies off to.
And maybe your footwork is so good that dirt is no big deal.
Also, if we have magic, i'd pop a barrier.

So, if your armor is shinny, it mean that you pass more time polishing it, than you pass time training in it.

Not necessarily. Maybe you just like having your stuff clean, and maybe you have servants who clean it for you.
Or if, again, we have magic, then maybe i can just magic it clean.
In other words having shiny armor would tell nothing about their actual skill in combat, all it would say is that the wearer is not a dirty peasant. Which is good in my books.

I've been watching renpy tutorials

If you plan on having combat, i'd recommend something other than Renpy.
Very few devs succeed at having actually good combat made in Renpy.
If you insist on Renpy however, one such game that does combat in Renpy well is "Adventurer Trainer."
I'd recommend taking a look at it, if you want to.

 

[Greiya Archives]

If you plan on having combat, i'd recommend something other than Renpy.
Very few devs succeed at having actually good combat made in Renpy.

I made a very cool one, it's fire, i haven't shown it to public yet, but I'll be posting about it in General discussions fairly soon, when it's more ready.

You can actually do a lot in renpy, long as it's 2D, but it would have to be done very manually, since renpy isn't made for those things.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

You can actually do a lot in renpy, long as it's 2D, but it would have to be done very manually, since renpy isn't made for those things.

Well, i'm guessing many creators here can't code for shit so... often rpgm ends up being better solution.

I made a very cool one, it's fire, i haven't shown it to public yet, but I'll be posting about it in General discussions fairly soon, when it's more ready.

I'll be waiting then.
Also for those who can code, there's wolf-rpg too, i know some pretty cool games made in it.

 

[whizwart]

Pale Carnations: From my view, it's like reading an onion about sex work, you just keep peeling back layers. When is something too far even with consent? What is real power and what does it look like? Can subjective morals really help you? The further the story goes, the more complex these answers get.

Now and Then: Solidly built plot with good character motivations.Nice balance of action and story until late int he game.

Our Red String: Slice of life, but characters very well written and react in ways you understand.

Friends in Need: Morality runs the gamit, from borderline hero to sociopathic.

 

[Yazen_]

If you plan on having combat, i'd recommend something other than Renpy.
Very few devs succeed at having actually good combat made in Renpy.
If you insist on Renpy however, one such game that does combat in Renpy well is "Adventurer Trainer."
I'd recommend taking a look at it, if you want to.

Just like the Historian said, you can be pretty much flexible on creating combat system in Renpy but you have to be pretty crafty about it. At best, it's still just a choice selection kind of gameplay but you have to do math behind the coding of the game if you want to for example, have a heath point bar for your character and enemy. You'll be reliant on your visuals to display that but do the math on code and make it so that when the numbers reach a certain threshold, the phase will change or if the enemy is defeated, the combat will end. Create animations for each component that would work together when engaging into combat gameplay etc. (I'm not really the best guy to explain this, so apologies xD)

I actually have been researching and watching a lot about the capabilities of developing games using renpy as your engine. Plus there are helpful tutorials on Youtube about it.