[Discussion] — The Curious Case of Abandoned Games

Droid Productions

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Well, either they are amateurs authors, and they surely would want to do the game by themselves (there's some on the scene), or you don't have the money for the license.
Not necessarily; the skillset (and interest) of making a game isn't identical to that of a novelist. The fact that we DO have a few hiding around on F95 that started as a novelist and branched into VNs isn't really a good indicator that every erotic novelist wants to learn DAZ, RenPy and deal with a community of gaming patreons.
 

baloneysammich

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For each point that you seen as a red flag, there's at least one corresponding finished game.
Sure, any single red flag doesn't mean much. But it's another matter if a single game displays many red flags that are commonly observed among abandoned games.

The truth is that there's no way to predict if a game will be finished or abandoned.
Technically I was talking probability not prediction. Either way, I appreciate your input but we're just gonna have to agree to disagree.

Yet, even without counting the games made by studios, it's not what happen.
Could you elaborate on this?
Edit: actually, allow me to elaborate in case there's a misunderstanding. I mean failed in a general sense. As you said "there's also really bad games, or badly received games, that are finished."

And no, unless change is really in your favor, you can't live 60 years by earning US$ 20 000/month during 10 years.
I know this is an outside example and all, but that averages out to 40,000/yr over 60 years. Based on , that would put a household of one located in one of the most expensive areas in the US in the "middle income" tier.
 
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anne O'nymous

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Sure, any single red flag doesn't mean much. But it's another matter if a single game displays many red flags that are commonly observed among abandoned games.
Bad quality CG, check. Totally average writing, check. Irregular updates, check. Author sometime disappearing, check. Four supposed red flags, yet as I said Drawing My Life have been finished. The problem is that you focus on abandoned games, and fail to see that the exact same "red flags" can also be observed in finished games.

The main point have been said by many others on this thread, the majority of the authors are amateurs doing this by themselves on their free time. And this change everything.
An author I know have disappeared during three weeks. Not a single word, neither on twitter where she's very active, on Patreon where she tend to post at least once a week, or on her private forum where she log at least once by day. Wow, this is a big red flag... unless she works alone on her free time, and therefore there's no one to tell the world that she had a car accident. Nothing too serious, but serious enough for her to not be able to use a computer for three weeks ; and also to not be able to works on her game for still some time, what will make her be really late for the next update, what is yet another supposed red flag.


Could you elaborate on this?
Edit: actually, allow me to elaborate in case there's a misunderstanding. I mean failed in a general sense. Merely receiving the 'completed' tag here does not equal success, any more than every app on the Play Store or Windows Store can be considered a success.
What is a success when you're doing something as hobby ?
There's authors who expect to be rich, but the majority just want people to enjoy their creation. One can tell that a game is a failure, because no one like it and/or it is abandoned, but telling when it's a success isn't as easy.

Earning US$ 1 000/month is already a success, it place you on the top ~20% of adult creators on Patreon, and with US$ 2 500/month you're in the top 5%. Yet I think that even with his US$ 297/month, Cryswar see his game as a success. It don't have much support nor much fans, but from what I see in the game thread, the fans really enjoy the game ; and it's precisely what one expect to achieve when doing something as hobby, that the peoples who like it, whatever how few they can be, also enjoy it.
Must also be said that, for a one year old text based game, US$ 297/month is far to be bad. Minus the usual monthly 10% drop that all creator encounter, he .

"Here's what I'm doing in my bedroom when I have some free time, hope you'll enjoy playing it as much as I enjoy making it". And when the answer is, "yes, I enjoy playing it", then it's already a success. Not a DarkCookie nor AdeptusSteve success, but still a success.


I know this is an outside example and all, but that averages out to 40,000/yr over 60 years.
I'm old enough to have lived through the whole history of computer adult gaming. I only miss the few first years since I was only 10 years old when Softporn was released.
I've seen the cheesy commercial games, the games made by the friend of a friend, the games released on BBS, the 90's golden age, when XXX movie studios were releasing their own games ; between the commercial releases, the indie production and the Japaneses imports, a hundred of new games each month, and in France three press titles dedicated to them. I lived through the dark age that was the early 00's, and I'm still alive to see the modern adult gaming age.
It don't average a small portion of the scene, it cover it all. What you see here is less than 5% of all the adult games ever released. Obviously I haven't played them all, but counting the 00's stupid flash games I surely played more than the near to 6 000 that can be downloaded here ; yeah, I know, I'm a big perv.


Based on , that would put a household of one located in one of the most expensive areas in the US in the "middle income" tier.
Well, I have a bad news for you, but in the USA if you don't have a 6 figures salary, you are in the middle income tier. And the income tier have never been linked to the place where one live.
In all countries, more or less the two third of the people living in the capital, or one of the biggest cities, are living above their income. They don't live there because they can financially afford it, but because they can't afford to live somewhere else if they want to have a job without a too long commute.
 

anne O'nymous

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Not necessarily; the skillset (and interest) of making a game isn't identical to that of a novelist. The fact that we DO have a few hiding around on F95 that started as a novelist and branched into VNs isn't really a good indicator that every erotic novelist wants to learn DAZ, RenPy and deal with a community of gaming patreons.
Would you let someone else write your story ? Or would you say, OK, you deal with what I don't know, but I'm in charge of the story ?
Implying that all would do it is probably an error, but the vast majority would. It's their baby, they'll not let someone else raise him.
 
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Droid Productions

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Would you let someone else write your story ? Or would you say, OK, you deal with what I don't know, but I'm in charge of the story ?
Implying that all would do it is probably an error, but the vast majority would. It's their baby, they'll not let someone else raise him.
For Love of Magic, no, absolutely not :) But then it's my baby, and I've done art/animation/writing/code/marketing/distribution/etc for it.

For other projects, including Paradise Lust, I'm not that attached, and I'm perfectly happy to hand over creative controls to someone else while I move on to something new.
 

baloneysammich

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I'm old enough to have lived through
...
...
...
None of which is relevant to the quote that preceded it.

Well, I have a bad news for you, but in the USA if you don't have a 6 figures salary, you are in the middle income tier.
As I said, 40000/yr is middle income.

And the income tier have never been linked to the place where one live.
Yes it is. Because eg. 40000/yr buys less where the cost of living is higher.

Anyway, it's clear we're done here.
 

Ennoch

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I surely played more than the near to 6 000 that can be downloaded here ; yeah, I know, I'm a big perv.
Lula? Cobra Mission? BoneTown? Dirty Ernie Show (and just games in general)? Meet&Fuck Detective RPG (when MnF for the briefest moment seemed good)? games? ? (from Mattis, who i thought quitted a decade ago but i couldn't have been more wrong seems like! :whistle:)?
 

anne O'nymous

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Dirty Ernie Show (and just games in general)?
Seriously, when you think about it now, the scene was really poor for Pornholio games to be such big hits. Most of them was like 10 minutes long with three time 2 choices, and we played them all...
And all those "choose how to fuck her" parody of the successful animes and comics of this time. We called this games, why ? Especially for those who were already old and past through the 90's :/
But I was more on the Japanese side. We had lots of translated imports here, and I past too much time on BBS. I totally not understand Japanese, but he never prevented me to blindly play Japanese adult RPG, wasting a hour playing in order to understand the fighting part, then tossing a coin when I have to choose answers.

Strangely, while it was a dark age and it's clear that the quality wasn't present, there's a bit of nostalgia thinking about those games. People who haven't lived this don't understand how much the worse Ren'Py or RPG maker game is so advanced.
 

savagesix

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I sincerely question the narrative that any significant number of abandoned games are 'the work of scammers'
Plenty of people have high asperations for their games but maybe don't have the chops or the time to pull it off. I suspect 98% of devs who end up abandoning games basically bit off more than they could chew, and of the remaining 2% I'd be willing to theorize half or more have something unexpected happen in their lives that causes them to stop development.

It doesn't help that platforms like Patreon etc go out of their way to make it significantly harder to monetize porn, especially for fetishes outside of the norm.

I'd be less willing to call games that get abandoned scams than I would 'games' that launch a mildly impressive tech demo and then update regularly for years and years but never with anything substantial *cough*WildLife*cough*

Even if a dev has a history of putting out low effort crap that gets abandoned immediately I'd still be more likely to suggest they try to focus before I call them a scammer.
 

Ambir

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1. Abandoned games are just works of scammers.
I am not entirely sure if that is the case. Possibly 50/50? There are developers genuinely have IRL issues during developments while some scammers just push out a functioning potential demo/early version to bait us into offering financial support then leave in time to make a fortune.
I very nearly abandonned my first game, The Dark Knight. Right now, It's been in a state of limbo for a little more than a year after I published a first update. It's still on hold, and I'm only now working out how I am going to go about reworking it. It happened because of personal issues with artists and lack of income.
If I was reasonable, I would have abandonned the game as it lost me 700$ so far.
This is the reality of people who abandon games, not whatever 2-3 high profile games you've heard about that scammed people, such as breeding season.

2. Abandoned games are bad.
I guess most abandoned games are not well-received would be more appropriate? I did hear a few good words for certain abandoned games.
I disagree. There is a correlation between a game being bad and a game being abandonned, for sure, but projects can be abandonned for all sorts of reasons. If a game is bad, there is probably a higher probability that it will be abandonned due to lack of support, I guess? But in the end, a game is abandonned because of the people who make it. It's when the author is done with the game that it is abandonned, not because it's good or bad.

3. Abandonment can be predictable by studying the update frequency, the actual progress of each update, the responses from developers etc.
You tell me? I haven't done any research on that, do shine a light to guide me. Are there actual patterns we should be looking out? How do you know a game is being abandoned or not?
My game, The Dark Knight, has been on hold for more than a year. The first update wasn't very big, and I haven't been steadily communicating with my players due to several issues IRL. Yet, it isn't abandonned. That is because of my decisions as a person to commit to the project and to fulfil my promises. I don't think that is the kind of thing that you can capture through a logical analysis.

4. Abandoned games have no values on F95 and they should be eradicated.
Again, it's not something I am familiar with so I want more information. By far, it is certain some abandoned games do have a fan base, I am uncertain whether that is necessary.
There are thousands of users on this website. I don't think you are qualified to represent their opinions. As you've said yourself, some games have a following even if they are abandonned, so I think it's not a good idea to remove abandonned games from this website.
 
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Joshua Tree

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Ambir Breeding Season wasn't as much of a scam, but the result of bad project management. Having silly contracts that allow your gfx artist to take his assets and walk away train wrecking the project. Seeing how Nimbus went on with Cloud Meadows, maybe he didn't want the competition of Breeding Seasons and got it killed off.. who knows.. He pulling what? 18k+ a month or something on Cloud Meadows these days...
 

Meaning Less

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I suspect 98% of devs who end up abandoning games basically bit off more than they could chew
Well, you just described a scam with different words...

If someone promises a lot even though they only have a barebone project and no means nor knowledge of implementing everything they are promising that's the definition of a scam.
And in some cases that is enough to rack up some money from hopeful patreons, you give them a short demo filled with hollow promises that you never intented to implement in the first place.

I even saw many of those being labeled as [completed] with less than 5% of the promised content and a rushed story, a full slap on all patreons that believed in everything promised and received a rushed demo disguised as a completed product.

Sure now people hate the dev but they can just create a new dev account and sell more fake promises again...
 
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Airell

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Honest Introduction:
1. Abandoned games are just works of scammers.
I am not entirely sure if that is the case. Possibly 50/50? There are developers genuinely have IRL issues during developments while some scammers just push out a functioning potential demo/early version to bait us into offering financial support then leave in time to make a fortune.
I think they are very different cases...

There are devs who start games as a clear attempt to make easy money, are surprised by the enormous amount of work required to create a game and finally abandon it when they see that success with game development, +18 or not, is not easy and quick as they thought.

There are devs who start their project because they like it, because they want to create something cool and think they can get enough support for their project to at least pay their own expenses.

You can blame Dunning Kruker for that.

1651786215248.png

2. Abandoned games are bad.
I guess most abandoned games are not well-received would be more appropriate? I did hear a few good words for certain abandoned games.
I don't know. None of the games I follow have been abandoned so far. I follow few games, in general eroge games hardly catch my attention because of their lack of depth.

I understand that short and casual games are a demand from the general public, but personally I don't like that.

3. Abandonment can be predictable by studying the update frequency, the actual progress of each update, the responses from developers etc.
You tell me? I haven't done any research on that, do shine a light to guide me. Are there actual patterns we should be looking out? How do you know a game is being abandoned or not?
I don't know. The few games I follow have regular releases.

4. Abandoned games have no values on F95 and they should be eradicated.
Again, it's not something I am familiar with so I want more information. By far, it is certain some abandoned games do have a fan base, I am uncertain whether that is necessary.
It makes a difference? Leave them there. Keeping them or banishing them, they are dead and will not return. It would just be a pointless extra work for moderation and uploaders.
 
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Ambir

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Ambir Breeding Season wasn't as much of a scam, but the result of bad project management. Having silly contracts that allow your gfx artist to take his assets and walk away train wrecking the project. Seeing how Nimbus went on with Cloud Meadows, maybe he didn't want the competition of Breeding Seasons and got it killed off.. who knows.. He pulling what? 18k+ a month or something on Cloud Meadows these days...
Sorry, I don't really know their circumstances. I dont like cloud meadow, and I'm disgusted for what they did to breeding seasons, which I considered pretty good.
So, sorry if I implied that it was something that it isn't.
 
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Joshua Tree

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Sorry, I don't really know their circumstances. I dont like cloud meadow, and I'm disgusted for what they did to breeding seasons, which I considered pretty good.
So, sorry if I implied that it was something that it isn't.


Sums it up just about..

Looked at the date and realised Cloud Meadow been going at it for 6 years... With that level of funding, not much to show to after six years imho...
 
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JoleenStar

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Honestly, I just wish devs didn't get looped into the "redo" trap they sometimes do where they change engines, mediums, or whatever in the middle of the development.

I'd much rather them finish the game on an unstable shitty medium THEN go back and do it better.
 
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Neo Nocturne

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I very nearly abandonned my first game, The Dark Knight. Right now, It's been in a state of limbo for a little more than a year after I published a first update. It's still on hold, and I'm only now working out how I am going to go about reworking it. It happened because of personal issues with artists and lack of income.
If I was reasonable, I would have abandonned the game as it lost me 700$ so far.
This is the reality of people who abandon games, not whatever 2-3 high profile games you've heard about that scammed people, such as breeding season.



I disagree. There is a correlation between a game being bad and a game being abandonned, for sure, but projects can be abandonned for all sorts of reasons. If a game is bad, there is probably a higher probability that it will be abandonned due to lack of support, I guess? But in the end, a game is abandonned because of the people who make it. It's when the author is done with the game that it is abandonned, not because it's good or bad.



My game, The Dark Knight, has been on hold for more than a year. The first update wasn't very big, and I haven't been steadily communicating with my players due to several issues IRL. Yet, it isn't abandonned. That is because of my decisions as a person to commit to the project and to fulfil my promises. I don't think that is the kind of thing that you can capture through a logical analysis.



There are thousands of users on this website. I don't think you are qualified to represent their opinions. As you've said yourself, some games have a following even if they are abandonned, so I think it's not a good idea to remove abandonned games from this website.
I just gonna say this once:
If you are going to twist my words, shut down the discussion, launch a personal attack, then go away.

I did say this once and I had said it in the first thread:
Those are points up for discussion and I don't have an opinion on Abandoned Games, I am just curious to know everything behind the trend and anything in addition.

If you are offended, sorry to poke the bear. But I did say I have no opinion on the issue (for someone as fluent as you are, reading the lines after the point clearly gives you the idea: I don't know the topic and I am just stating whatever I have seen) and I am just bringing those up for a discussion.
(Yup, clearly I am not sorry just because this is a sensitive topic; surely someone will hold a grudge and take it the wrong way anyway, that doesn't mean this shouldn't be discussed openly just for more opinions)

But thanks for the overall input. At least I did say "developers might have to abandon games for IRL issues". Your statement just proved that.
 

Ambir

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I just gonna say this once:
If you are going to twist my words, shut down the discussion, launch a personal attack, then go away.
Noted. There was no intent to do that in my post, so I'll stick around.

I did say this once and I had said it in the first thread:
Those are points up for discussion and I don't have an opinion on Abandoned Games, I am just curious to know everything behind the trend and anything in addition.
Please forgive me for raising this point: Personal take, at least to me, pretty much equates to a personal opinion. I took the personal take as a personal opinion, and answered to each points, in order. If anyone wants to argue with my points, I'm happy to keep discussing.

If you are offended, sorry to poke the bear. But I did say I have no opinion on the issue (for someone as fluent as you are, reading the lines after the point clearly gives you the idea: I don't know the topic and I am just stating whatever I have seen) and I am just bringing those up for a discussion.
English is not my first language. There is no line that explicitely states what you said, and I took 'personal take' to be a personal opinion, and I answered those points. Regardless if those are a personal opinion or not, was there anything wrong with me answering those points?

(Yup, clearly I am not sorry just because this is a sensitive topic; surely someone will hold a grudge and take it the wrong way anyway, that doesn't mean this shouldn't be discussed openly just for more opinions)
Honestly, this is confusing me. Was there anything that was offensive written in my post?

But thanks for the overall input. At least I did say "developers might have to abandon games for IRL issues". Your statement just proved that.
Well, maybe we can discuss this. These are my experiences. Do we have any clear exemple of games being abandonned where it was clearly a scam? Maybe we can compare those exemples against the thousands of abandonned games on this website and figure out what proportion of games look like they were cashgrab scams. That might yeild some semi-solid data over which argumentation can be made.
 
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Don't forget that some of us actually do things for a hobby. Some of use even create games for free, I do see that devs like to deny that exists and wants people to believe that a game can not be created for free. Just like I am doing myself to contribute back to video games. Free and Open source games exist. Even my latest game is free for people to use and modify.