[Discussion] — The Curious Case of Abandoned Games

Meaning Less

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Sep 13, 2016
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Open source games exist
Not only games but even software in general.

I always find it funny when I see some "devs" complaining they aren't making enough money therefore they are justified to abandon everything while at the same time there are plenty of open source devs/modders/fans working purely with the intent of creating something better, helping the community or simply to learn something new.

If the sole goal of anyone creating something is to make money then most likely they will regret it at some point or another in the future, even if it is working momentarily.
 

Joshua Tree

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Not only games but even software in general.

I always find it funny when I see some "devs" complaining they aren't making enough money therefore they are justified to abandon everything while at the same time there are plenty of open source devs/modders/fans working purely with the intent of creating something better, helping the community or simply to learn something new.

If the sole goal of anyone creating something is to make money then most likely they will regret it at some point or another in the future, even if it is working momentarily.
So you assume all creators that make these games does it with no prospect what so ever to monetize it? How about you? Do you work for free? Why not? There is people out ther that work for free. Shouldn't all people work for free then? Just because you are a hobby creator doesn't mean you have to work for free. Many people monetize their hobbies regardless if its make games you fap to, or they do wood working, knife making whatever.

I always find it funny people expect creators to work for free....
 

Meaning Less

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Many people monetize their hobbies regardless if its make games you fap to, or they do wood working, knife making whatever.
If you are doing something mainly for the money by definition it isn't a hobby anymore... It turns into work.

Sure you can monetize the result of a hobby but that is a perk and not a requirement.
 

Joshua Tree

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If you are doing something mainly for the money by definition it isn't a hobby anymore... It turns into work.

Sure you can monetize the result of a hobby but that is a perk and not a requirement.
No, because you can earn from your hobby, but it wouldn't be enough to make it into a full time career. So it will remain a hobby. If I had the choice between a few projects in my spare time. And one of them could earn me some extra spending cash. It would give added incentive to do just that project.

I have a friend that make knifes on his spare time. He sell them at markets, fairs and such during the summer. He make the knifes, because he like to make them, but he doesn't just givve them away from free. Why should he? Someone else I know like to bind flies for fishing. He doesn't just give them away either.
 

Neo Nocturne

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Noted. There was no intent to do that in my post, so I'll stick around.



Please forgive me for raising this point: Personal take, at least to me, pretty much equates to a personal opinion. I took the personal take as a personal opinion, and answered to each points, in order. If anyone wants to argue with my points, I'm happy to keep discussing.



English is not my first language. There is no line that explicitely states what you said, and I took 'personal take' to be a personal opinion, and I answered those points. Regardless if those are a personal opinion or not, was there anything wrong with me answering those points?



Honestly, this is confusing me. Was there anything that was offensive written in my post?



Well, maybe we can discuss this. These are my experiences. Do we have any clear exemple of games being abandonned where it was clearly a scam? Maybe we can compare those exemples against the thousands of abandoned games on this website and figure out what proportion of games look like they were cashgrab scams. That might yeild some semi-solid data over which argumentation can be made.
At this point, you still don't know what exactly you have done so wrong, you are "unqualified" to say anything more.

(Everybody is qualified to say anything from a "personal take". As you have repeatedly say that so as to defend yourself as a developer who has abandoned a game, hence, fair to say, you have just made yourself "unqualified" to continue this conversation)

Double standard is not my standard. I am not even attacking a developer or any developers to start with as I have stated my purpose of starting this thread: I am curious and I want to know more related to the topic.

Whatever triggered your over-sensitiveness on the subject, gave your the sense that you can make a direct hit from there. Clearly, you crossed a line and you don't even take time to reflect.

No need to apologize or reply any further. For someone who is not a native speaker, yet can write elaborately in details; a decent developer who has completed projects despite failures; unfortunately, one doesn't reflect or review his/her/their own project/reply/comment etc.

"True success depends on a progressive, hardworking attitude and a mind that constantly reflects and improves upon itself."
Just an interpretation from an old proverb. Hopefully this helps you in your next/current project.
—————————
In the unlikely case you don't recall at all —

Your Quote Here:
"I don't think you are qualified to represent their opinions."
FYI: Frankly, I wasn't even thinking about removing anything. I am not the admins, OFC I don't need to remove or consider that option, my quote "Again, it's not something I am familiar with so I want more information. By far, it is certain some abandoned games do have a fan base, I am uncertain whether that is necessary" means that I have no idea whether that motion of [removing abandoned games] is a necessary move SINCE there are abandoned games with a fan base.

So next time you want to twist anyone's words into something else and let your anger run rampage upon another innocent soul, calm down and read again. It's not even my 50th time to have to explain elaborately to someone as intelligent as you that clearly, not everyone online is always hostile toward you in the first place when they write anything.
 

Ambir

Adult games developer
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Aug 7, 2020
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So next time you want to twist anyone's words into something else and let your anger run rampage upon another innocent soul, calm down and read again.
Those are definitely words to remember. I fully agree with you there, and I would like to redirect those words at you, because they encapsulate my reaction to the post you just made.

Now, I'm going to put on my big boy pants. I appologize for offending you. What I said wasn't said to offend you, and I am truly sorry that you took it so bad that you felt the need to write me not one, but two angry filled rants.

I pray that your discussion with others is a bit more peaceful from now on. So, humm, good luck, and I hope this discussion turns out to be productive for you!
 

fidless

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I do not support Patreon games, they all scams>All the adult games are the same low quality shit>Games with 300$/month are being abandoned, they are shit>Repeat your mantra OP. :LOL:

Also, isn't a contradiction to claim that ALL adult games should be hobby games made for free and expect professional 100% deliverance?
 
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ShamanLab

[Industry News] Weird behavior (c)
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Dec 16, 2019
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Honest Introduction:
I don't play ANY ABANDONED GAMES at all.
Before game get ABANDONED tag it can be active by years or decades. So, it's hard to understand what are you talking about...

'Female Agent' and 'Who is The Father' didn't abandoned at all. :) And there is army of supporters for this projects. :)
 

Airell

Developer of Love and Corruption
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Aug 18, 2017
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I do not support Patreon games, they all scams>All the adult games are the same low quality shit>Games with 300$/month are being abandoned, they are shit>Repeat your mantra OP. :LOL:

Also, isn't a contradiction to claim that ALL adult games should be hobby games made for free and expect professional 100% deliverance?
Funny. Sounds like demanding that devs who work free time on their games have the same output/productivity as devs who work full time on it or even have teams.
 

Deleted member 1952336

Ortus
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Jan 18, 2020
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I offer myself up as a case example.

I didn't abandon this game, but I did wrap it up early than originally planned.

My goal is to earn a living. After about a year of working on my game full time, I was earning around 80$ a month after patrons cut, and that number was decreasing every month, despite me working everyday on it, all day long. Living in the U.S. it wasn't sustainable. I have limited savings with nothing to fall back on, and I was burning through my savings, I still am.



I let my patrons know my plans, and spent the last four months getting the story to the point where there were good sex scenes with the main characters and then wrapped everything up with a few different endings. The ending still, I'm sure felt more abrupt then the general pacing of the game and many people were mad, although some were happy with the endings.

The Time Costs

I think people don't realize how much work goes into making some of these games, especially if the Dev made mistakes in planning. For Kingdom Harem, I originally planned to render everything in Honey Select 2, but after realizing that HS2 scenes didn't look the greatest for the fantasy setting I wanted, I decided to 3D model all of the backgrounds, objects, and items separately from scratch to retain a consistent style, and have every setting and object I wanted. After spending around 80 hours trying to get my 3d models through to HS2 I realized this was a waste of time, and they would look better rendered in blender anyways. So I was rendering the backgrounds from a bunch of different angles, for the hand crafted scenes I made then moving them to HS2 to line them up, and then fixing shadows and other issues in Gimp after that, as well as using photo/image editing to try and make things look better than they did in HS2.

After all of this people said the backgrounds looked like crude placeholders. The entire project gameplay, story, and graphics was compounded mistakes on top of mistakes, which is why it wasn't earning a survivable income on patreon. Only 837 of 4715 adult games are earning what I would consider a livable income in the united states (700$ a month or more). so 17% are earning 700$ or more a month, possible less than that if graphtreon hasn't listed many of them. So it certainly isn't easy if that's a creators goal.



Opportunity Costs

My belief is that I could earn a livable income, with high enough quality art/story/gameplay. Which is why after that I'd been grinding hard all day everyday to learn to draw at a high level, and I'm still currently doing that and putting together my next project, which is hand drawn.

But basically, for those of us living mostly off of our savings with a limited savings, way we have to make the best decisions that get us to a massively popular V/N (survivable income) in the shortest amount of time, and sometimes that means wrapping up a bad project (keeping our patrons in the loop of course for everything).
 
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Joshua Tree

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My belief is that I could earn a livable income, with high enough quality art/story/gameplay. Which is why after that I'd been grinding hard all day everyday to learn to draw at a high level, and I'm still currently doing that and putting together my next project, which is hand drawn.

But basically, for those of us living mostly off of our savings with a limited savings, way we have to make the best decisions that get us to a massively popular V/N (survivable income) in the shortest amount of time, and sometimes that means wrapping up a bad project (keeping our patrons in the loop of course for everything).
Imho the most important come down to story/characters. Good art/renders can't save a game/story alone imho. Also how have you gone about advertise/market your project? Just curious..
 

Airell

Developer of Love and Corruption
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Much of your comment could have been written by myself. I'd my dream is to be able to have enough support to live off my game, working full time on it.

Speaking for myself, my game is my passion first and foremost and my real dream would be to be able to dedicate myself exclusively to it. I've been working at least 2-3 hours a day on my game, no mention of my official job (8h a day).

Weekends too, mostly. This is the time I have the most opportunity to polish code/implement new things.

I do this because I really enjoy writing the story of my game, I like to see it grow more and more, new characters, new sidestories, quests and such. Everything is enjoyable and I went even further, investing in art from my own pocket because 3D models didn't match the lore/style of game.

I worked hard from the beginning to make something really decent that allowed me to create freely. About 8-10 months creating the game's framework before creating content. A complete RPG system.

Today this has been almost a year of project officially with almost 500k words. I keep doing it and I don't intend to stop, first because I love my game and I want to see it grow, and because I believe that for this to work and for the game to stand out, it takes real hard work for a long time.

Yes, I'm not going to lie and say I'm not tired. The routine of taking care of so much work takes up most of my time. This is exhausting, but the fact that this is a game that is my passion helps me move forward, dedicating all the best I have to my game, along with my belief that hard work eventually works and the game will stand out.
It's still my belief, I still want to believe that with hard work and perseverance, this is possible and I will fight for it.

Out of sheer concern for my health though, I've decided to slow down the last few days. As much as I want to do this, my body has started to show signs of exhaustion after a year at this intense pace, and I'm getting worried.

But the bottom line is: You only understand the real challenges of game development when you decide to get serious about it.
 
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Deleted member 1952336

Ortus
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Imho the most important come down to story/characters. Good art/renders can't save a game/story alone imho.
That's true. I guess I just mean, art is my weakest point that I'm currently grinding.

Also how have you gone about advertise/market your project? Just curious..
For Kingdom Harem (the last game I wrapped up), I posted it on itch.io and here. For my current project (v0.1.0 not released) I made a twitter account and deviant account with my art, where I will post some of the game art when I release. I'm planning on posting that one to r/lewdgames and r/NSFWGaming when I release v1.0.0, if I have enough reddit points to do that. And maybe making a slushi account for some of the game art. As well as possible a newgrounds account before release.

But my main plan is for it to be high enough quality, with plenty of high quality 2D animations, art, good writing, & fun gameplay that people rate it highly so it ranks higher and gets more clicks.
 
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Joshua Tree

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That's true. I guess I just mean, art is my weakest point that I'm currently grinding.



For Kingdom Harem (the last game I wrapped up), I posted it on itch.io and here. For my current project (v0.1.0 not released) I made a twitter account and deviant account with my art, where I will post some of the game art when I release. I'm planning on posting that one to r/lewdgames and r/NSFWGaming when I release v1.0.0, if I have enough reddit points to do that. And maybe making a slushi account for some of the game art. As well as possible a newgrounds account before release.

But my main plan is for it to be high enough quality, with plenty of high quality 2D animations, art, good writing, & fun gameplay that people rate it highly so it ranks higher and gets more clicks.
None of these sites advertise for you though. You need to become your own marketing machine to bring awareness of your game. There is creators out ther that make medicore games at best, but still do good because they manage to bring awareness about their creation and pulling in people willing to support them. Don't be shy about plaster your game on just about any adult/porn site you can find. Or even a demo clip on pornhub etc. There is creators on youtube, albeit small ones that does review NSFW games and such as well. You can make the best game ever, but if no one get to know about it, it will remain a hidden gem..
 

Meaning Less

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Also, isn't a contradiction to claim that ALL adult games should be hobby games made for free and expect professional 100% deliverance?
Not sure where you got this conclusion from. I'm much more willing to support those doing it for free on their own times and being realistic about it, that was my point.
Instead of the ones disguising themselves as professionals expecting to be paid like professionals but delivering amauter level quality.

I do hope you and all the devs using renpy that believe "nothing should be free" are supporting well. It is easy to feel entitled while you hang on the shoulder of giants.
 
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fidless

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Not sure where you got this conclusion from. I'm much more willing to support those doing it for free on their own times and being realistic about it, that was my point.
Instead of the ones disguising themselves as professionals expecting to be paid like professionals but delivering amauter level quality.

I do hope you and all the devs using renpy that believe "nothing should be free" are supporting well. It is easy to feel entitled while you hang on the shoulder of giants.
What Renpy? :Kappa:
You also contradict yourself again? Why I should support creators like renpytom. It's not a requirement as you said. Renpy engine is a hobby work, he should be happy to work for free. It wasn't he who invented phyton. Isn't that what you said? :HideThePain:

there are plenty of open source devs/modders/fans working purely with the intent of creating something
Let's check sims3/4 mods... Ohh.... :HideThePain:

Let me tell you one thing. Obviously most of us, well, idk, at least I work on games because it's enjoyable for us.
But what you say is just naivety. I have one good example.
Compare FREE available music with music found on Unity Store. Making something with the intention to earn some extra $ is not an EVIL/GREEDY act as you think. IT makes a person allocate extra time and sweat into it. That's why pre-patreon adult games so lacking. That's why free music/sounds/3D assets are crap. That's why I pay extra for whatever I commission if I'm happy with the work. Because it pushes a person forward to become a professional, thus == make quality work in the future.
 
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Joshua Tree

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Not sure where you got this conclusion from. I'm much more willing to support those doing it for free on their own times and being realistic about it, that was my point.
Instead of the ones disguising themselves as professionals expecting to be paid like professionals but delivering amauter level quality.

I do hope you and all the devs using renpy that believe "nothing should be free" are supporting well. It is easy to feel entitled while you hang on the shoulder of giants.
So who are these creators you think expect to be paid like professionals? If you look into what actual professioanls in the game industry earn a year in wages and bonus's, majority of the creators on Patreon will never come close to that. I'm quite sure most creators know it's not a "get rich fast" scheme, and those who do they blink out fast enough regardless.

Also, you contradict yourself a bit here. You want to support people that does it for free... Well it doesn't cost you anything to support anyone that does it for free right? The level of support a creator get will also encourage and entice them to work harder on their project majority of the time.
 
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Meaning Less

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Well it doesn't cost you anything to support anyone that does it for free right?
I'm not sure if you are being serious or not...

Patreon is a creator support tool, not a product sale tool. Many creators of free and open source projects are supported through patreon.
 
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fidless

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I'm not sure if you are being serious or not...

Patreon is a creator support tool, not a product sale tool. Many creators of free and open source projects are supported through patreon.
So why are you forcing someone to support renpytom? :HideThePain:
Flip-flop pick and choose.
 
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