Do people like VNs or is it just the easiest genre to make?

[cutepen]

I'm a somewhat experienced gamedev just starting out making my own NSFW/porn games and am trying to figure out this whole space.

One thing that's probably obvious is the huge amount of visual novels of all kinds. Now I do play a lot of these and I enjoy them, but at the same time I'm very curious if these are so popular just because the genre is "easy to make and get right", or because it's a good genre for porn games? (one hand gameplay)

Partly why I'm asking is because I started working on a porn-themed 3D FPS (like Devil Daggers/Hellbound/Ultrakill/Doom Eternal/etc), and as I'm looking through other games I don't really see anyone doing this, or at least the ones on Steam (like Waifu Hell) are extremely minimalistic shitty asset flips.

I guess the obvious downside of a porn FPS is that it's anything but "fappable" since fast paced gameplay with both hands, but ... hmm, any thoughts?

 

[Winterfire]

It is what is preferred by the majority of players. Any mechanic that could be considered a waste of time to get to the porn is a sin. That is why if you have played any RPGM game, in some of them the character walks like if he has a rocket attached to his ass.

Even when making a Visual Novel you are not escaping said sin, people expect to complete your game in a single playthrough.

 

[Saki_Sliz]

I would say VN are the most popular on this site, a lot of the users here actually read and enjoy stories. I myself have no attention span for reading, but that is slowly changing. don't know if they are the most popular type of game, but the format is a good compromise for the devs. written word is the easiest form of content to create, relative to art and programming at least. I see twine games are very popular because they have minumil art, where as a VN still takes planning and artwork, but a vn is easier to market because pretty pictures.

I believe what Winterfire is refering to with RPG Maker, is people will often use that game engine to make a 'make-shift' VN. Where Renpy is a dedicated tool for VN creation, RPG Maker games tend to be a 'walking simulator' where you walk to areas to progress the story, not acutally playing with any mechanics (other than maybe locked doors). VN's can do their own version of this, but most don't even implement a map, they more or less focus on living through a rotuine which is a way of simplifying the process and work needed.

I've seen a few fps lewd games, and there's two ways to do it. 1 was an mmo free for all, can't really fap to it, and I could never find it because all I found were videos (a bot was spaming comments on itchio repeating the same spam of videos with no link to the game), the videos could count as fap material though. Second is the mass effect style, where the game is broken up into combat and social phases, the issue is that you basically have to make two games, twice the work, and lots of casual devs can hardly make a dozen scenes, which only gets harder if they actually have to start setting up true game levels.

 

[Doorknob22]

I guess the obvious downside of a porn FPS is that it's anything but "fappable" since fast paced gameplay with both hands

This. Never forget this.

I develop an empire conquest game where you raise armies, conquer and manage fiefdoms but I always remember my players want fap first and think second. Whenever I introduce a new game mechanism I ask myself if it going to contribute to the erotic experience or detract from it and I drop many cool ideas that will turn my game into a heavy strategy game.

In a porn game the player must always feel they know how to, and actually move towards the next pussy. This is the advantage of Visual Novels and this should be something to bear in mind if you develop any porn game which is not a VN.

Is porn first person shooter a good idea? Maybe. The way I would imagine a good porn FPS would be that you need the shooty bits to earn something (gold, keys, etc) and the porn bits as the reward and goal. The shooty bits should be simple and easy to beat, you're not making the next Doom. Done right, the player would feel they earned the sex parts in a way which can't be achieved by a simple VN. Good luck!

 

[anne O'nymous]

[...] people expect to complete your game in a single playthrough.

I think that you wrongly wrote "single minute".

But yeah, except that I still believe that they aren't the majority, just the most vocal half, you're alas right. Too many players nowadays expect a game easy to play, that don't need them to use their brain, and that will show them the whole content without disturbing story in between. What mean that VN is the most accurate style since it permit the slideshow they want to watch ; because saying that they "play" would be abusive.


And the other half land there:

I would say VN are the most popular on this site, a lot of the users here actually read and enjoy stories.

What again make VN being the most accurate style, because it also offer a good support for the story telling. Where RPG Maker offer you, by example, silent travels, a VN permit you to place a dialog during this travel, and so to explore the background story. The applying to whatever game mechanism you can think about ; with a VN approach, you can put story everywhere you want.


Therefore, in the end, VN are popular because they simply represent the best compromise between the two half of the community.

 

[aattss]

Personal, I tend to avoid VNs since I prefer less dialogue/cutscenes and more mechanics.

 

[cutepen]

Thanks for the replies guys, I can totally see how a "VN life simulator" actually feels less like my time is being "wasted trying to get to the porn" compared to some games where I remember feeling like "pls stop wasting my time, I just want to see if the pictures are any good".

I guess the "care about story" part is also a big thing in VNs, last one I can think of I really enjoyed was Eternum where the story was just sooo interesting.

---

A related question, where do you think

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or maybe even

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falls in terms of "is it worth making"? I've played Succubus for a bit and haven't really found the gameplay good, and it was too chaotic to enjoy any kind of lewd content (I haven't played She Will Punish Them tho).

I mean of course these games made a crapton of money but they also obviously had big dev teams behind them ... and when I see the average "3rd person porn RPG" on itch/patreon they're always really really bad and I don't think I recall a single one that I actually enjoyed playing.

 

[Ambir]

I'm a somewhat experienced gamedev just starting out making my own NSFW/porn games and am trying to figure out this whole space.

One thing that's probably obvious is the huge amount of visual novels of all kinds. Now I do play a lot of these and I enjoy them, but at the same time I'm very curious if these are so popular just because the genre is "easy to make and get right", or because it's a good genre for porn games? (one hand gameplay)

Partly why I'm asking is because I started working on a porn-themed 3D FPS (like Devil Daggers/Hellbound/Ultrakill/Doom Eternal/etc), and as I'm looking through other games I don't really see anyone doing this, or at least the ones on Steam (like Waifu Hell) are extremely minimalistic shitty asset flips.

I guess the obvious downside of a porn FPS is that it's anything but "fappable" since fast paced gameplay with both hands, but ... hmm, any thoughts?

I'd say that there is one simple answer to your question.

People prefer VN because it's about the only genre of porn game that is constantly well executed and can be made by solo devs without derping itself.

I am pretty damn sure that if you had AAA companies making porn games, people wouldn't mind larger games with fast paced action and stuff like that. It's just, those would need to be made properly. With porn games, the issue is that you need good graphics. Usually, indie games are less all in on graphics and more all in on fun concepts.
You can't really cut corner in porn games, because that's a big part of the appeal.

 

[cutepen]

Personal, I tend to avoid VNs since I prefer less dialogue/cutscenes and more mechanics.

Do you have any good examples of non-VN games you enjoy that have good mechanics?

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Let's see... i actually tend to hate VN's.
I'm a big rpg fan because, and VN's often tend to not be that, or be very shitty that.
But, if the story is at least as great as in this game, then i'll happily play VN, or rpgmaker, or whatever.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

Here are some with at least passable gameplay. Some players like me do want engaging gameplay. I rarely play VNs.

 

[freedom.call]

I prefer VNs with a good story, I don't fap to games but I like some sex scenes here and there. I have no interest in any sort of gameplay, not a gamer as such.

You probably shouldn't listen to me I suppose.

 

[Mister Perfect Shadow]

I prefer a good sandbox where you have a good balance between story, mechanics and grind.
VNs for me has to have an interesting story, if isn't good I end just skipping everything and also if the sandbox is a grindfest I just delete the game.

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

But, if the story is at least as great as in this game

Damn, that's some beautiful art right there. Strange they're not doing better on Patreon.

A related question, where do you think

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or maybe even

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falls in terms of "is it worth making"?

I swear I must've seen this question at least 10 times over the past week or so here... and it's always some permutation of: "I'm starting a game, is this the right choice? Should I make this? Will it gain traction? Help me decide!"

Not meaning to rip on you personally, OP, but you're asking the wrong question. No one knows if their game is going to be successful, or whether all their hard work will pay off. You could spend a year putting something together, only for it to fizzle out and gain no traction whatsoever. Which is why you should take the plunge and make something you yourself will enjoy creating and playing! It's the only way to mitigate burnout once you get past the honeymoon phase on a new project.

You say you're a somewhat experienced game dev - then you probably know just how much tedium and drudgery there's involved in crafting even a simple kinetic novel, let alone something more complex. Now imagine how much of a chore it's gonna be if you're trying to follow the market and working on something you dislike or even outright hate! If you want to do a VN or FPS then go for it, but do it because it appeals to you first and foremost... the player base will catch up if you throw enough passion into your project and create something worth playing.

TL;DR: Make a game you'll enjoy working on, don't follow trends or market expectations.

 

[cutepen]

Not meaning to rip on you personally, OP, but you're asking the wrong question. No one knows if their game is going to be successful, or whether all their hard work will pay off. You could spend a year putting something together, only for it to fizzle out and gain no traction whatsoever. Which is why you should take the plunge and make something you yourself will enjoy creating and playing! It's the only way to mitigate burnout once you get past the honeymoon phase on a new project.

I understand where you’re coming from, but my point with this question wasn’t really to get a prediction if the game would be successful, but rather to get some kind of response from potential players. The reason I asked here is because I’ve seen many people in /r/gamedev and other places post their finished game, only to be torn a new butthole, because they just never looked at ”what works”.

You say you're a somewhat experienced game dev - then you probably know just how much tedium and drudgery there's involved in crafting even a simple kinetic novel, let alone something more complex. Now imagine how much of a chore it's gonna be if you're trying to follow the market and working on something you dislike or even outright hate! If you want to do a VN or FPS then go for it, but do it because it appeals to you first and foremost... the player base will catch up if you throw enough passion into your project and create something worth playing

I definitely don’t intend on making something I hate, but I do think people should play into their strenghts. Being a programmer first I don’t think a kinetic novel would be “easy for me”, because I have very little experience writing long from stories.

Also one reason I asked was I saw a lot of people outside of the NSFW area complain about “there being too many VNs”, while the NSFW area doesn’t seem to mind them. But then again the overall quality of non-VN games is just … I don’t even want to say terrible, I’m just so confused how bad it can get while still selling a ton of copies.

But to answer your point, I don’t think it’s a binary choice between “do something you love” vs “do something you hate”. Gamedev to me is in a large part work. A lot of parts are extremely fun, but “finishing a game” is annoying and frustrating no matter how amazingly interesting the project is. I’d rather put all that effort into something where I can see potential from some preliminary market search. I consider this question to be just that, I’m not looking for definitive answers, I don’t think anyone can even give those.

People have already said some extremely useful insights I wouldn’t have thought of, and I’m extremely grateful for that.

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

Fair rebuttal, I get where you're coming from.

Just one question...

Gamedev to me is in a large part work.

I'm curious about this - are you an indie developer at your regular job, or do you work on AA/AAA+ games?

 

[Meaning Less]

Yes on average VNs are the easiest possible thing to create on the technical side, all you need is a story and some images to go with it, that's why we see more of it simple as that.

RENPY is the easiest tool to create vns, that's why it is popular
RPGM is the easiest tool to create rpgs, that's why it is popular
DAZ is the easiest legal tool to buy and pose 3D models, that's why it is popular

You really don't need to be a detective to figure out that most people go for what is easiest...

And this has little to do with customer preference, in fact if it was customer preference everyone would want triple A games with porn in them, but we are far from there yet aside from game modding.

 

[SecretSal]

Ideally, I'd personally like a game with a good gameplay loop that boosts the narrative and the sexual elements. For example, something like Stardew Valley but with full-on sexual components added to the relationships would be a great experience.

But that's a tough balancing act to hit. Most of the time, gameplay-heavy games out here tend to feel tedious to me, and after a point, it's just slogging through to get to the scenes I want. Doesn't help that I'm comparing them to gameplay mechanics from regular games, which tend to be more polished and have self-sustaining loops (the good ones, anyway).

The advantage that 'pure' VNs have is that there's much less indecision about what their strengths are. Good writing, engaging characters, good art, good sex scenes, choices that give the player some agency, and then it's just about making sure your genres/fetishes are compatible enough to gather an audience.

Also, the episodic format that most games use is much better suited for VNs, since effectively a new update is just the next chapter in the novel, while with more gameplay-type games it's usually not as straightforward.

 

[cutepen]

I'm curious about this - are you an indie developer at your regular job, or do you work on AA/AAA+ games?

I'm one of those crazy people who decided "fuck this I'll go full time indie" and try to make it work ... I've got a reasonable runway and done a bunch of experiments last year, and live in a relatively "cheap" country, so I think I should be able to get something going before money runs out. That's partly why I'm taking it less from a purely fun approach. I know it might lead to burnout, and I'm already feeling it a bit after a few months of intense work, but at the same time I really don't want to go back to writing business software.

I don't want to be a sellout though, so if the only option is "make shovelware crap for a shitty publisher" I'd rather not do that. Above all I want the games I make to be enjoyable and "worth it" for the player. But if I can maybe do a VN instead of an FPS or vice versa (or some other sacrifice) and make it profitable that way, I'd take it.

And this has little to do with customer preference, in fact if it was customer preference everyone would want triple A games with porn in them, but we are far from there yet aside from game modding.

This is very interesting to me though, because I see a lot of VNs that have INSANE amount of content, like tens of thousands of renders, some even with animations. I get why a newcomer with little experience and no budget would go for a VN being "easy path", but seeing how much money some games are making yet still not switching off of VNs to something else makes me curious.

something like Stardew Valley but with full-on sexual components added to the relationships would be a great experience

I love this example! It's always a bit annoying when a game that has romantic parts in it ends "too soon".

 

[Meaning Less]

This is very interesting to me though, because I see a lot of VNs that have INSANE amount of content, like tens of thousands of renders, some even with animations. I get why a newcomer with little experience and no budget would go for a VN being "easy path", but seeing how much money some games are making yet still not switching off of VNs to something else makes me curious.

Easy in the sense that requires less knowledge to achieve, just pure grind and repetition to create them.

I'm not saying that devs aren't investing a lot of effort in them, just that since they have reached their skill ceiling then the only place to go from there is either stop everything to learn new skills (which most of them don't want to) or just do more of the same which then leads to bigger and more repetitive vns.