Do people like VNs or is it just the easiest genre to make?

[Meaning Less]

I know these kinds of questions are basically impossible to give a definitive answer to, but I'm just curious if maybe there's something I could at least follow/explore?

Not really, the thing is that you just can't effectively appeal to fetishes you aren't yourself into.

You can try developing a futa game but if you aren't into futa you most likely will give focus to the wrong things and put that character in unnappealing situations to the point where people that are into futas won't fully appreciate your game.

Kinks are one of the few things that you just can't manipulate your way around because the result will either be something generic or entirely miss the point of people that enjoy that kink.

As an example, only an ear fetishist will know what things appeal to them when it comes to ears, and most people that aren't into it will have no idea what to do aside from the dumb stuff like "cumming in them" which most likely isn't what ear fetishists were looking towards in the first place.

 

[woody554]

both.

 

[freebirdfreebird]

You will notice that most quality 3D games that are either free roam or beat em up side scrollers with sex elements net the highest profits. Especially if you can platform it on steam. It's just the number of people capable of pulling that off is limited hence the limited games of that type. VN's can match them in $$$ but it better be really good(story, art, choices, consequences etc) and it helps to have some sort of track record.

Yknow, a Yakuza style 3D beat em up might be something to look into.

 

[cutepen]

Not really, the thing is that you just can't effectively appeal to fetishes you aren't yourself into.

You can try developing a futa game but if you aren't into futa you most likely will give focus to the wrong things and put that character in unnappealing situations to the point where people that are into futas won't fully appreciate your game.

Kinks are one of the few things that you just can't manipulate your way around because the result will either be something generic or entirely miss the point of people that enjoy that kink.

As an example, only an ear fetishist will know what things appeal to them when it comes to ears, and most people that aren't into it will have no idea what to do aside from the dumb stuff like "cumming in them" which most likely isn't what ear fetishists were looking towards in the first place.

That makes a lot of sense, though it just narrows it down to things I’m into. I guess I should start being a bit more organized in how I explore these, but I’m still not sure how to tell if something is worth making a game about, hmm.

I would imagine in terms of content creation it would be to just start creating content of various stuff I’m into and see how it does. Though I’m not sure if say I’m into ears and I explore that in a small VN and post it on itch, it might not do well because the other ear fetishists won’t find it because I’m not frequenting the same places as they do, and I’ll mistakenly conclude that it’s a bad niche?

 

[woody554]

Hmm that's something I haven't considered at all. Now that you've mentioned fetishes I can totally see how I've enjoyed some games way more than others just because they were "the right kind of porn". But still being a mostly vanilla noob, do you have any tips on exploring demand for fetishes?

I would assume that just going by something like subreddit popularity is not really relevant, because a sub being popular doesn't mean it's content people are willing to pay for or are "very into". Seems like it would have to be something that's:

- legal and within my comfort zone
- popular enough to have a playerbase
- not popular enough that the playerbase is willing to pay for more of such content

I know these kinds of questions are basically impossible to give a definitive answer to, but I'm just curious if maybe there's something I could at least follow/explore?

two main considerations with this:

1) it needs to be something you want to make or you'll burn out.

2) every kink you add slices off an audience that hates it. some kinks are worse in this regard than other, like 'big boobs' is fairly widely liked. but even that has a surprisingly big group that's absolutely disgusted by big tits.

and if you wanna marginalize your game really fast just add NTR (10% audience) and futa (10%) and you've instantly cut your original target audience down to 0.1*0.1 = 1/100th of what you started with.


some big groups to start with are male protagonist (60%), female protagonist (40%), and although I can't remember actual rough numbers (everything is kinda sketchy to get) milf which mostly overlaps with mom/son is huge, but also the incest/little sister audience is huge.

fairly safe ones seem to be for example voyeurism and feet, and although especially the first one gets a lot of hate comments those same people still seem to come to every game with voyeurism tag. so go figure.

things people always claim to want but the games never get more than marginal support:
-original stories
-deep characters
-good writing. all these three are kinda the same issue of course.
-meaningful choices. people ABSOLUTELY hate when choices shut them out of ANY content. but they hate being railroaded too. so you more or less need to trick them. whatever you do don't you dare to force them accept the consequences of their choices. like "I raped my mom repeatedly and I have two complaints: 1) why does the game claim the mc is a good guy? and 2) I got a game over for raping mom?? what is this bullshit!"

things that seem to work:
-superficial plots
-avoiding any controversial kinks
-cliche setups like the highschool game we all know and the incest house game we all know.
-annoying level of handholding. oh god these are the worst, but people will always complain if they have to make even a TINY effort.
-cis/vanilla tourist versions of certain orientations and kinks. or pretty much all kinks. so pretty much the only popular type of lesbian is one that loves dick, the only female protagonist is one that gets raped everywhere and by everyone (well okay that's not vanilla, but it's not really fem.protag either).

and any and every kink should ACTUALLY be about putting some dicks in some pussies. meaning your fetish scenes should always end in vanilla intercourse or at least anal. but the payoff can never be the slave being utterly humiliated and then left there without being vanilla fucked.

nothing wrong with any of these, but it's just that some things have more people that like them than others. and the biggest group of all is the vanilla tourist who wants to see the latex gimp mask for variety, but doesn't really get off on it.


where does all this shaky 'knowledge' come from? from years of seeing same things polled over and over, and from doing some rough statistics on what tags are popular and how those related games score among the most successful (usually measured in patreon earnings/patrons) games. and of course a heavy dose of subjective opinion.

 

[Meaning Less]

but I’m still not sure how to tell if something is worth making a game about, hmm.

Anything that you wish existed but doesn't is probably worth creating.

Though I’m not sure if say I’m into ears and I explore that in a small VN and post it on itch, it might not do well because the other ear fetishists won’t find it because I’m not frequenting the same places as they do, and I’ll mistakenly conclude that it’s a bad niche?

Well, that's the thing you can also just be a bit less specific, every game has multiple kinks and tags. I doubt there was ever a game that only focuses on a single kink exclusively. Which is why different people try them out and enjoy them for different reasons.
As a content creator you can never be sure exactly why others are enjoying what you created (most likely they don't even know it), but at the very least you can be sure if you enjoy it yourself or not and that is the most important step imo, everything else is pure speculation.

 

[woody554]

As a content creator you can never be sure exactly why others are enjoying what you created (most likely they don't even know it), but at the very least you can be sure if you enjoy it yourself or not and that is the most important step imo, everything else is pure speculation.

very true. like we see from lesbians being big consumers of male gay porn and so on. or the vast majority of incest game fans being disgusted by real life incest. mindcontrol and corruption audiences not overlapping. things are often not what they seem.

 

[astranabeat]

I think why we didn't see many porn game except VN because there are no free and easy engine for DEV to use. RPGM and Renpy exist so 99% game we will get will be VNs and simple RPG game.

 

[Jizzyapa]

Hmm that's something I haven't considered at all. Now that you've mentioned fetishes I can totally see how I've enjoyed some games way more than others just because they were "the right kind of porn". But still being a mostly vanilla noob, do you have any tips on exploring demand for fetishes?

I would assume that just going by something like subreddit popularity is not really relevant, because a sub being popular doesn't mean it's content people are willing to pay for or are "very into". Seems like it would have to be something that's:

- legal and within my comfort zone
- popular enough to have a playerbase
- not popular enough that the playerbase is willing to pay for more of such content

I know these kinds of questions are basically impossible to give a definitive answer to, but I'm just curious if maybe there's something I could at least follow/explore?

Harem incest fantasy with young girls/you're father and stuff if you go for the money. You can add kindergarten to bait and drop the project whenever you get enough $$$ to avoid groomers hate and FBI.
Or make something you would enjoy yourself.

 

[Carrera]

VNs are probably the easiest to make which is why they're so prevalent. Many VNs are just "kinetic" where choices have little to no impact on the game itself.

In general there are fewer "variables" to track and all thats required of a writer is to write a story and basically write it in a "choose your own adventure" style. If you choose A go to page 13, if you choose B go to page 14.

 

[brankom]

Personally I like books, so for that I like VNs it's like a book but with images, rpgm is a time waster, so are sandbox games, I came here for some reading material, granted some of the stories here are quite childish but hey, you got to start somewhere. For games I'm playing Elden Ring, I haven't found a adult game with a good story and gameplay, maybe get good in one and then take your chances with the other, otherwise you might burn out, good luck.

 

[Angelsong]

I like visual novels because I enjoy reading and taking breaks from other more intense video games (strategy, MOBAs, shooters, etc). I don't "get off" to adult games but they are arousing and I play them for more of a sexual high, so for me the story and characters are far more important than the actual gameplay elements. I feel visual novels are a good balance for the medium of adult stories and any extra gameplay elements only take away from the experience. That being said, it's difficult to find adult visual novels with really good stories.

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

Do you have any tips for "complex" VNs to take inspiration from that aren't just story?

Sorry, can't help you there - I don't have time to play too many games these days. I check some out here and there, but it's usually like 10-15min just to see their art/writing/mechanics.

RPGM games are rarely worth playing in my opinion, 15 minutes of running around doing tedious stuff to be rewarded with a static image and some "lewd" text.

That's more the fault of poor design than the engine itself. But yeah, it doesn't invalidate your point.

the only romance I ever enjoyed in RPG's is Morrigan of Dragon age origins

Ah, nostalgia... DA:O was such a good game (the Cousland intro was my favorite origin story), I wish BioWare had kept going with that kind of style instead of pivoting to soulless MMO-inspired design like in DA:I and Anthem and Andromeda.

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things people always claim to want but the games never get more than marginal support:
-original stories
-deep characters
-good writing. all these three are kinda the same issue of course.
-meaningful choices. people ABSOLUTELY hate when choices shut them out of ANY content. but they hate being railroaded too. so you more or less need to trick them. whatever you do don't you dare to force them accept the consequences of their choices.

Well then the game I'm working on is quadruple-fucked! Wait, no, triple - jury's still out if the writing is passable!

I think why we didn't see many porn game except VN because there are no free and easy engine for DEV to use. RPGM and Renpy exist so 99% game we will get will be VNs and simple RPG game.

You can absolutely make amazing things in both RPGM and RenPy, it's just that most erogame devs are amateurs, and have little or no knowledge of game design or project management principles. Things will get better as the industry matures and people acquire more skills and experience, the whole scene is still in its infancy.

rpgm is a time waster, so are sandbox games

I feel personally attacked and slighted!

We shall duel, sir! Pistols at dawn!

 

[dannt]

it's more populaire most people feel that rpgm are a chore to get to the sexs scenes compared to vn games

 

[LegacyUser]

Cutepen,

This is a great question and one I struggle with as I develop my own content. Here's my 2 cents from a player that equally enjoys VNs and 3D Games. I kind of lean 60/40 3D Game specifically.

Overall, make content you enjoy. There are plenty of other people out there that enjoy other things and they will make it better than you. I'm not an NTR fan. Nothing against it, just me. I don't do NTR because I would suck at it. It's not my cup of tea so I don't try and do something I don't feel 'into'. Also, porn is freely available. If you turn to porn games people expect something more than what they get on Pornhub. That's my opinion.

3D Games (problem). They tend (not always) to be poorly coded and optimized so performance is not good. Early builds lack any story/content that the player really wants and turns players away very quickly or they're just quick sex simulators with no story worth playing.

Some 3D Games that get it right that I recommend. The Last Barbarian, Last Hope, My Lust Wish, OverTopia, and more. Not a comprehensive list.

I think the major difference between VNs and 3D Games is VNs allow content to flow very quickly from Dev to Player. Because there is a lack of optimization and heavy programing required, that time can be spent on rendering, art, and other deliverables. That doesn't mean a talented and experienced coder with a library of resources to pull from isn't as quick. It just mean that creator would need that library first to push large amounts of content quickly.

Visual Novels (Games) and Kinetic Novels. Just quickly taking a look at the most successful games on the site can give you some perspective. Most of those games explore stories and elements that would be difficult to do in a 3D Game very easily. It's not something you can get on pornhub, and the effort into them makes them a quality product.

My approach, just my style, is a very open ended game that is more like a choose your own adventure novel with a full character backstory (choices) with the present day (in game) impacted (significantly) by backstory choices that pursue a specific and understandable end game. I hope this helps.

 

[DaisyChained]

I'm not a fan of VN's generally. There are exceptions most certainly, but it really does feel like the lowest bar of entry besides RPGM for the developer. This means that a lot of generally amateur or untalented people will be mass producing game's which they otherwise would not have the competency to create. Then you can add generic Honey select, Dazed assets art if you have no artistic ability and you end up with a product that's as generic and tasteless as a McDonalds cheeseburger.

For me to enjoy a VN at least 2 out of 3 of these criterias has to be fulfilled:
1. the art/characters has to be unique, hand made. Nothing takes me out of the mood like seeing the same character/face in different games. A porn game should not feel like a lazy power point presentation with stock images.
2. The story is extremely well written, by someone both literate and able to understand normal social interaction and that is able to convey this in a natural and realistic sense. The author needs to have a grasp of pacing as well.
3. The porn is kinky enough/fills enough niche fetishes in high enough frequency that my horny brain takes over, ignoring actual quality or lack there of.

Bonus point- Gameplay, most people don't include gameplay in VN's and those that do mostly just rehash old lightweight mobile games/windows xp desktop games that are grindy and janky more than anything. This again comes down to competency, you can achieve actual gameplay with the constraints of say Ren'py, but it's not easy and tends to not be done. Hell, I would go as far to say that most visual novels aren't actually games and should be classified as either a kinetic novel or a slideshow with some random royalty free music on loop.