Do people like VNs or is it just the easiest genre to make?

[Crimson Delight Games]

Ideally, I'd personally like a game with a good gameplay loop that boosts the narrative and the sexual elements. For example, something like Stardew Valley but with full-on sexual components added to the relationships would be a great experience. But that's a tough balancing act to hit.

Take it from someone who's trying to do exactly what you've described - it's a metric fuckton of work. An entire game loop has to be built around and above the lewd content layer. Not easy or simple (or quick) by any means...

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Also, the episodic format that most games use is much better suited for VNs, since effectively a new update is just the next chapter in the novel, while with more gameplay-type games it's usually not as straightforward.

This too. It's a salient point that bears repeating. I'd say a solo dev is better off going the VN route; RenPy is a godsend for anyone wanting to do an episodic game... but again, it mostly depends on what the driving factor is behind the person making the game itself.

I'm one of those crazy people who decided "fuck this I'll go full time indie" and try to make it work ...

Fuck, mate, you've a set of balls (ovaries?) on you! I couldn't justify leaving my 9-5, just the thought of it scares me shitless. Job stability is a precious thing these days.

I know it might lead to burnout, and I'm already feeling it a bit after a few months of intense work, but at the same time I really don't want to go back to writing business software.

Understandable. I can somewhat relate - I work a desk/office job, and it can be incredibly tedious at times. But at least it pays well, and the benefits are there too.

Above all I want the games I make to be enjoyable and "worth it" for the player. But if I can maybe do a VN instead of an FPS or vice versa (or some other sacrifice) and make it profitable that way, I'd take it.

Like I wrote above, do what makes you happy and what you'll enjoy working on. But maybe consider producing a quick VN for your first project, just to get your toes wet in the scene, and get something out there. I'd have probably done the same in your shoes if I was solo, but I have another 2(+1) people working with me as part of a team, so we can afford to play around with a bigger project (RPG). But RenPy VNs are probably the safest bet for solo/new developers.

This is very interesting to me though, because I see a lot of VNs that have INSANE amount of content, like tens of thousands of renders, some even with animations.

Keep in mind many of those games have been in development for 5+ years, or they have multiple devs working on them... sometimes both! You can't really compete with them, so don't let it bother you too much. Just do your own thing.

EDIT/P.S. The hell is up with the site's images? Is this an April Fools' thing?

 

[SharkVampire]

Not long time ago, I catch myself on thought, that if the game don't have engaging mechanics or at least some gameplay I lose my interest towards such game pretty fast. Well it's hard to call VN's a games, since they more like interactive stories, but some authors trying to add gameplay elements from various genres. After making a thoughtful analysis of why I was losing interest toward these game, I came to the conclusion that, it's mostly because of the nature of this genre and the frequency of releases. Basically, even if I played good vn with very nice story I may lose interest, because of gaps of story due to updates frequency. I will need to remember things again, who is who, who did what etc. and in the end, after few months (sometimes half year or more) I'm not really that enthusiastic to return to that story, because other than story these games can't offer anything else. Because there is no binding elements, such as gameplay features that will keep you entertained. And another thing that I said about the nature of this genre it's the main goal - to get in girls pants. After accomplishing this goal you most likely won't continue to read this vn. Personally, it's hard to imagine that others stay read the story after they "released" the tension, but if it were a game, lets say rpg, you could easily continue, because after sex scene, there is usually continuation of the things you did before: slaying monsters, managing your kingdom and etc. More than that, in one of my cases, if I finish the route of certain girl, that I valued the most, I may completely lost interest towards this game, since my goal is achieved and there is nothing to do for me anymore. But if the gameplay was entertaining enough, I could continue to play to finish this game and in the meantime, I can accept future sex scenes, as a reward for my efforts. I think it's pretty basic psychology mechanic of the human brain, to get rewarded for you efforts and it upsets me greatly that many games nowadays created with the thought, that the player don't need to do anything at all (press F to win, yeah) to accomplish his goals. It's also reflexed in the stories, which I can't stand, there all LI's is thrown at the MC without any effort on his part, I think it's a very infantile approach that has become very popular in the gaming industry in general.

In the end, I probably must say, that this is just my opinion and I'm not saying that others opinions are wrong. I think if I had the recourses I would probably tried to create something on my own, according to my vision. Not too ambitious like dreamers love to do, but something different from what we usually see.

 

[Beatrix Kiddo]

Personally I enjoy good porn stories, and I really mean both words. Give me porn alone and I will bore to death, give me a nice story with excesive text or barely any porn and my peepee will bore to death. The VN formula can score both well and easy.

I don't mind added mechanics, as long as they contribute to elevate the porn and story and don't interfere with the flow. A FPS sounds awful to me in that regard.

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

A FPS sounds awful to me in that regard.

It could be good if done right. Enemies should be naked babes to tease the player through the level, and then you'd get lewd scenes depending on how well you did clearing the map. So there'd be a mechanical segment (fighting through mobs of enemies), and a post-mission hub/segment where you'd buy gear, upgrade weapons, and purchase/unlock sex scenes.

Come to think of it, a cyberpunk setting would be perfect for this. Or urban fantasy like Hellgate London.

 

[Meaning Less]

I don't mind added mechanics, as long as they contribute to elevate the porn and story and don't interfere with the flow. A FPS sounds awful to me in that regard.

It just sounds like you don't like games, your focus is purely story and sex.

Usually people that are into games look for more interactivity than just story and sex. Modded bethesda games are probably the closest thing to a perfect adult game we have right now and they are all FPS.

 

[cutepen]

Take it from someone who's trying to do exactly what you've described - it's a metric fuckton of work. An entire game loop has to be built around and above the lewd content layer. Not easy or simple (or quick) by any means...

Oh wow I can definitely see how your game must've been a fuckton of work!

This too. It's a salient point that bears repeating. I'd say a solo dev is better off going the VN route; RenPy is a godsend for anyone wanting to do an episodic game... but again, it mostly depends on what the driving factor is behind the person making the game itself.

This is a very interesting point I haven't considered. I've actually "wasted" quite a few months rewriting a shitty project last year, and my take-away was that I should've just "released what I have a small game, then make a sequel" instead.

Looking the same thing from the context of a VN makes a lot of sense since extending it further is natural compared to other genres hmm. Maybe even the part that's like ... a DLC for a FPS might not be as interesting as "more of a sexy story you got emotionally invested in". I definitely didn't play DLCs, but I do get updates for the VNs I enjoyed.

Fuck, mate, you've a set of balls (ovaries?) on you! I couldn't justify leaving my 9-5, just the thought of it scares me shitless. Job stability is a precious thing these days.

It is very scary indeed. What helped me "take the leap of faith" and grow balls was actually having kids. I used to be too afraid of doing the wrong thing or making a mistake, but now I'm more of a "fuck it lets gooooo". I also used to be quite lazy, but now that I actually have to make this work my productivity is through the roof. Probably not sustainable long term, but I have a "fixed time limit" to make this work anyway.

But maybe consider producing a quick VN for your first project, just to get your toes wet in the scene, and get something out there. I'd have probably done the same in your shoes if I was solo, but I have another 2(+1) people working with me as part of a team, so we can afford to play around with a bigger project (RPG). But RenPy VNs are probably the safest bet for solo/new developers.

I like this idea. I actually made a very small VN a few months ago that did extremely well for how crap it was (just like 1 minute of gameplay and still got 1k downloads in a few days). My main worry with doing a VN is that I'm not sure how to best lean on my strengths (better at code than at art), but I guess that's where the "life simulator" with some interesting mechanics comes in, rather than just one long story. I'm not against doing a bunch of art, but it feels like if I want to make a really good game I should capitalize on what I'm best at.

It's hard for me to judge since VNs weren't really my thing until somewhat recently, and I'm still trying to figure out what features are "possible". I know RenPy lets you do basically "anything", but by "possible" I mean "reasonably easy without doing everything from scratch".

Do you have any tips for "complex" VNs to take inspiration from that aren't just story? Just yesterday I played "Confined with goddesses" that has a pretty interesting and simple quest system with a map and "time based events", though was still pretty art heavy.

Keep in mind many of those games have been in development for 5+ years, or they have multiple devs working on them... sometimes both! You can't really compete with them, so don't let it bother you too much. Just do your own thing.

That's a good point. One thing I really think I need to figure out in this regard is workflow, because I have no clue how people manage to create so many renders. Do they just never go back and redo things? Or do they setup a scene for everything and automate re-rendering everything when they update the models and stuff?

 

[Meaning Less]

Do they just never go back and redo things?

Yes, that seems to be the most common approach most western vns adopt, they are released in "complete episodes" much like tv shows.
So they finish an update and release, hardly going back to change stuff aside from actual errors or smaller text adjustments.

 

[jamdan]

VN's are the easiest to play and easiest to create.

You can make a really solid VN with basic Renpy code. Making mechanics or using more complex platforms (like Unity) is a lot more difficult. There are many games that attemped to do this, but the devs couldn't figure it out. See Midnight Paradise and Lewdlab, a formerly very popular developer pretty much KO'd his 2nd game and torpedoed his reputation because he attempted to do things outside of his skillset which resulted in an empty and buggy game.

Something that irritates players to no end is when VN games introduce sandbox out of no where. Why?

You can play a VN from start to finish within a few hours, most of the time. No trying to figure out sandbox stuff, no grinding, no walking. This also makes it a lot easier to replay, just hold down ctrl and take a different route instead of having to redo the grind over and over.

None of that means that RPG or sandbox games are inherently bad, they aren't. It just takes a broader skillset, which most people, including many that attempt it, do not have.

 

[cutepen]

Something that irritates players to no end is when VN games introduce sandbox out of no where. Why?

By sandbox you mean games that have a map and for example "money making mechanics" that you have to repeatedly do to progress the story, as opposed to just a linear story VN?

 

[Serupiko]

VN are easy and accessible to make, but they are also to play. Gameplay can be hit or miss, and to play a crappy game that its only mechanic is walking around, I'd rather have a VN. Simple, easy, and you can play with one hand.

 

[4 Anon]

Do you have any good examples of non-VN games you enjoy that have good mechanics?

This wasn't aimed at me, but here's a few examples with tolerable gameplay (for me).

The Imperial Gatekeeper
Degrees of Lewdity
Goons Raid Her
Summer Memories
"Trainer" type games.
Love of Magic (pretty much a VN but the card game is pretty fun)

RPGM games are rarely worth playing in my opinion, 15 minutes of running around doing tedious stuff to be rewarded with a static image and some "lewd" text.

 

[Dagoth Urgers]

There's a saying that applies to writing, but I think also applies to game development: "brevity is the soul of wit." That's not advocating for minimalism, just that everything should contribute to the experience and anything that doesn't should be cut.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Damn, that's some beautiful art right there. Strange they're not doing better on Patreon.

Not only art, their storytelling is outstanding as well.
I'm sure as more people play their game they will get even more patrons.

 

[Deleted member 229118]

There the easiest to make.
And all vn (porn or otherwise) is general speaking shit.
I tent to use unren to check of image's before playing.
99% of the time they arent even good.

The games i replay the most are lab rats 2, free cities, superpowered, station manager, etc.
I like some gameplay in my games but finding good porn games is hard(Just like none porn games its 99% shit 1% accauly worth a damm)

I tell you the same thing i tell everyone that wants to make a porn game.
Make what you like but dont expect success.
You are compeeting with thousents.
You just got to keep trying until you get lucky.

As for an fps.
First person shooter porn game seems rather pointless.
Meaby as a gameplay where you control the dick and have to accauly hit the pussy yourself but even that novelty will wear off fast.

My advise: Try and fail.
Learn from your mistakes and try again.
Repeat until you learn what works and what doesnt.

 

[cutepen]

There the easiest to make.
And all vn (porn or otherwise) is general speaking shit.
I tent to use unren to check of image's before playing.
99% of the time they arent even good.

The games i replay the most are lab rats 2, free cities, superpowered, station manager, etc.
I like some gameplay in my games but finding good porn games is hard(Just like none porn games its 99% shit 1% accauly worth a damm)

Thanks for the reply! I didn’t know any of those games but after a brief look it’s different than what I expected. I thought you meant “good porn” as in “the game looks great”, but just based on a brief overview (I’ll try them all properly later) it seems that maybe “art quality” isn’t nearly as important for it to be good?

I mean I definitely noticed this with myself where I’d prefer “consistency over ‘quality’”. I’ve noticed that with some games (like Eternum) I initially almost didn’t play it because I thought “this looks so generic”, and when I played it I was just instantly pulled in and blown away.

 

[Jizzyapa]

I'm a somewhat experienced gamedev just starting out making my own NSFW/porn games and am trying to figure out this whole space.

One thing that's probably obvious is the huge amount of visual novels of all kinds. Now I do play a lot of these and I enjoy them, but at the same time I'm very curious if these are so popular just because the genre is "easy to make and get right", or because it's a good genre for porn games? (one hand gameplay)

Partly why I'm asking is because I started working on a porn-themed 3D FPS (like Devil Daggers/Hellbound/Ultrakill/Doom Eternal/etc), and as I'm looking through other games I don't really see anyone doing this, or at least the ones on Steam (like Waifu Hell) are extremely minimalistic shitty asset flips.

I guess the obvious downside of a porn FPS is that it's anything but "fappable" since fast paced gameplay with both hands, but ... hmm, any thoughts?

It is easy to make and most people prefer simple games. They just make you more $$$ with much less effort, also most XXX devs lack programming experience to make anything more than VN.

Whenever you make a porn games, these are statistically 100% correct points what makes perfect XXX game from most important to not important (from top to down)

1. Fetishes.
2. Art/Graphics/Style
3. Gameplay
4. Writing

 

[freebirdfreebird]

Personal opinion- I like gameplay whenever possible, even if simple, quick segments. Now personally, I’m not sure what “good” options you have for a porn FPS(to use your example), but something could likely be done.

Simulation/Management games are likely to be the “easiest” to design for. Some examples (sorry, don’t know how to link):
Imperial Gatekeeper
Artificial Academy 2
Custom Order Maid 3D2
“Trainer” type games
Breeding Season
You mention being a good coder, and that’s what immediately brought to mind AA2- an Illusion game with actual gameplay, where NPCs could interact, social interaction was based on assigned personalities, etc. There’s a loooot to look at there. There’s others that might be of interest too- Bonecraft is a third person shooter/beat em up where sex is both a reward and part of the gameplay (although camera controls for the sex scenes suck).

Also, while out of the scope of an indie dev, I’d love to see AAA games have full, controllable sex scenes. I think of something like FF7R or Mass Effect where you could go and hook up with squad mates during down time would be amazing, and possibly make it my favorite game.

 

[DawnCry]

Well to be fair there are many types of players on this side of the road, but overall we would have 2 extremes:

-Gameplay over porn: In this group I include myself, the reason I started to play H-games is because I was disappointed with the romances on RPG's, the only romance I ever enjoyed in RPG's is Morrigan of Dragon age origins and it may be funny but when I started to play H-games I just wanted to find interesting games in which the romance did matter and felt wholesome.

It's at this point that I started to play games such as:

*Kamidori alchemy meister
*Daibanchou: big band age
*Bunny black
*Sengoku Rance
...

I personally seek adult games in which defeat has consequences, that you can get a harem if you play your cards right but could lose if you play badly.

-Porn over gameplay: In this group we would find people that want to add a context to usual porn, in most of the cases they want 0 gameplay however many would actually appreciate a decent enough story.

You can be on the middle, leaning towards one side or whatever, but just be aware you have a public in all sides

 

[Vinyard]

You will notice that most quality 3D games that are either free roam or beat em up side scrollers with sex elements net the highest profits. Especially if you can platform it on steam. It's just the number of people capable of pulling that off is limited hence the limited games of that type. VN's can match them in $$$ but it better be really good(story, art, choices, consequences etc) and it helps to have some sort of track record.

 

[cutepen]

Whenever you make a porn games, these are statistically 100% correct points what makes perfect XXX game from most important to not important (from top to down)

1. Fetishes.

Hmm that's something I haven't considered at all. Now that you've mentioned fetishes I can totally see how I've enjoyed some games way more than others just because they were "the right kind of porn". But still being a mostly vanilla noob, do you have any tips on exploring demand for fetishes?

I would assume that just going by something like subreddit popularity is not really relevant, because a sub being popular doesn't mean it's content people are willing to pay for or are "very into". Seems like it would have to be something that's:

- legal and within my comfort zone
- popular enough to have a playerbase
- not popular enough that the playerbase is willing to pay for more of such content

I know these kinds of questions are basically impossible to give a definitive answer to, but I'm just curious if maybe there's something I could at least follow/explore?