Do you prefer to play Harem games with or without male competition?

[woody554]

yes for rivarly, no for ntr.

 

[Ying Ko]

In before "mY wAiFuS mUsT bE InNoCeNT vIrGiNsss wHo OnLy Lo0ks at MeEeE!"

Seriously, though. Harems are pure male fantasy. They don't want to fight for a woman to drool over them, then just want them on their knees cock-gobbling as soon as possible. This is why projects like WVM appeal to a certain subset of people, and I'm not going to take shots at specific types of people, but they know who they are. While the argument that its escapism is fair, a good story - especially romantic - aren't good without some level of conflict. I prefer realism, and realism says that attractive girls are going to be hit on (no, being avoided because you're attractive is absolutely not a thing. It happens, but it's not a thing.). It's really that simple, and for that matter, it's a game/story/VN. Just make the right choices and you don't have to worry about it.

Edit: Oi. If you're going to facepalm me, then at least have the gall to attempt to tell me where I'm wrong lol.

A story needs conflict and gameplay needs to be a challenge, but when a game lacks these traits, the solution doesn’t have to be another kink or a fetish.

“The majority of the population of the planet are lactose intolerant, it makes sense that a couple of the female characters will be to. If you don’t want to see the explosive diarrhea scenes, make sure they don’t drink milk, it’s that simple. LMAO” -Scatfan69

 

[Geralt_R]

Is the thought that women can be sexually active really so traumatic that it's a big deal every time it's represented in male power fantasies?

Just a guess... maybe a sexually active woman is still - even in 2022 - considered "impure" by those who only want virgins as LIs. As in, if she's no longer a virgin she's spoiled goods, which is basically just an effect of ca 2,000 years of Christian sex morals imprinted on almost all western societies, but other cultures have this concept as well of course, so it's not exclusive to Christianity.
Someone like Casanova is envied by many (men), a female Casanova would be considered a dirty slut by many, even in the 21st century, as clichéd as it sounds. This concept of "purity" (only in women of course) is still found all across cultures, so of course you also find it in VNs. Maybe it's also some underlying instinct about making sure that any potential offspring is always yours, when the female partner is a virgin you are guaranteed she never had sex with anyone else (thus even to this day a girl's virginity is verified in some cultures before marriage). And after that it's just making sure she will never interact with other males. You need to make sure any potential offspring is yours. Which is what you have in your standard harem game. Lot's of girls who never interact with other male NPCs, only with each other maybe.

So introduce non virgin LIs or maybe even potential competition and everything is immediately ruined for some players. A game like "My Sister, My Roommate" has a patch that removes any reference to her "slutty" past for a reason and also removes the one non skippable/unavoidable sex scene she has with someone else, before the brother ever even gets closer to her, i.e. they are not in a relationship that early in the game.

That's why there are moms who never had sex in 20 years and only live and breathe for their son, and all the virgin sisters / LIs. In a popular game like BADIK most of the sexually active (potential) LIs are literal prostitutes and found in the "others" category, whereas most main LIs are either women who never had sex with a man (Jill, Maya, Josy) or haven't had sex in centuries (Bella), Sage is the only real exception here (Quinn as well). Sage is the favorite of many (not as popular as Jill though), so it's evident not everyone only wants virgin LIs and no competition - but BADIK has the male competition for Sage be someone who's in the closet and doesn't even like touching her to reassure players. And the competition for Jill is a grade a douchebag. This is no coincidence.

 

[woody554]

I'm no fan of virgin stories, but I find it kinda amusing how there's people having problems with 'too many virgins' in a field saturated by massive sluts you can't keep off your dick if you tried.

come on, let the devs have their fantasy. if they want everyone and their mothers virgin, so be it. if they want them massive sluts, so be it. if they want no males fucking their girls, it takes mindnumbing deliberate ignorance to think that's something outlandish. and same of course goes for those who want their harems fucked by a bully, just let them have it. none of those things were written into the game by the audience, not even when there's a public vote for next update content.

 

[sexypeanut]

I find games with no other guys to be at least bizarre. Is the world populated only by girls and some 100%-background guys that NEVER interact with you? It feels absurd.
I do like it when there's some kind of wingman - a guy that has dialogues with MC and has a distinct personality. There is stuff that even in a game you'd rather talk about with a guy than a girl. Bros before hoes, as the saying goes. Two terrific examples of that can be found in Acting Lessons and Become a Rockstar.

On the other hand, I'm not interested in NTR... but I'm not an extremist. It makes complete sense to have girls that have their own lives and won't sleep with MC (e.g. a cashier) or are the companion of a guy (e.g. your wingman's GF). I'm adamant on NOT engaging the latter, since backstabbing your bro like that is abhorrent to me. Can the game show scenes of MC walking on them 'at it'? Surely, why not. It happens here and there. Or even GFs of other guys in the game.
Now, if one or more of said GFs are to be LIs, I rather have them end their relationship with their current companion and then become available. What I don't like at all is seeing a girl I already have a relationship with sleeping with other guys (and here there's something very few games allow: for MC to end a relationship with a girl).

I guess people that want some story and character development in the games they play are less stubborn about girls being harder to get/having male competition. If you want to play these games just for the porn, I can understand the concern of losing a girl to someone else and missing a scene.

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TL;DR: I'm ok with Harem games having other guys, with them having relationships with girls from the game and with some competition for the girls. For me, watching a girl my character has no relationship with getting pounded by someone else isn't a problem at all (like Aubrey in College Kings). Once MC and a girl start something more intimate, then the competition can be there to add some drama to the story - but getting the girl actually being fucked by other guys... no-no.

 

[NukaCola]

Should be able to vote both since its 50/50 for me. Its more exciting with competition but then again sometime when I play a romance games I just want to relax and have fun with all the girls without having to worry about another "Eric"
-WITH male competition; I deal with the enemy males, then get the girl!
-WITHOUT male competition; just focus on the MC and the girls, that's it!

 

[RedTomato]

Some people seem to have very narrow ideas on what a tag should/could include. I think tags are more usefully seen as rough guides to content.

On Harem specifically, I've seen people claim that NTR/Sharing and Harem don't mix, when I think that a well-written game/vn that mixes them could be amazing.

To clarify, I'm not saying every harem game/vn should have NTR/Sharing, I'm saying that more variety would be welcome and at the moment there's too much 'boxing in' of content from fear of upsetting some vocal minority. As a result, many of them just regurgitate the same small set of stories which is frankly boring.

There's plenty of room to have everything from 'male power fantasies' (let's have some 'female power fantasies' while we're at it) to more grounded stuff.

 

[Yngling]

I'm saying that more variety would be welcome and at the moment there's too much 'boxing in' of content from fear of upsetting some vocal minority. As a result, many of them just regurgitate the same small set of stories which is frankly boring.

Exactly!

The only NTR that I really, really hate is when you don't expect it to happen, but happens anyway and there is nothing you (the player and/or the MC) can do about it.

Games that focus purely on NTR/cuckolding/cheating/swinging don't really mix well with games that focus purely on harem, I get that.

However a game without any other males besides the MC is just ridiculous. And that (if they exist in the game) all of them should die virgins while the MC has more than 10 women is also ridiculous.

If there are other males which are in a relationship, that's fine. If the game gives me the opportunity to steal or share their girls, perfect, as long there is the option to opt-out. But still it makes a story more natural, more realistic and less boring.

If there are other males who are after my girls: as long as there is a way to beat them, it's fine as well.

Voluntary sharing of my harem girls with other men, I'm not a fan of that. But as long as there is a choice, why not?

 

[Robwood]

Without. These damn games are far too long already.

 

[Loganfin]

I absolutely want there to be other guys competing for the women.

First, its laughably silly to have the MC as the only man in the world who's ever having sex. Its cringe worthy even.

Second, its FAR more satisfying and rewarding to have the MC earn the affection of the women because he's a sexy boss who's more appealing than the other men, than to have him just be their only option by default.

Third, having the women of the game out there having sex and getting experience before the MC meets them means that great hot, sweaty, messy sex is that A LOT more realistic than if they're virginal.

 

[Crosaith.]

Only if they're well written and/or are the MC's friends. It gets tiring when other guys are just ugly bastards with giant magical cocks. It's even more annoying when a game has double standards for lewd content. Romance path - Takes days & weeks to get in a woman's pants. NTR path - Woman fucks a bunch of randoms ASAP.

 

[Jaike]

The problem with harem games is that they are boring.

A good story needs some conflict. So you can for example:
- Make the girls not ok with sharing the male MC (at least initially)
- Have a male antagonist trying to romance your potential LI's
- Make it about incest: the girls are against the relationship because it's forbidden

Then there is also the topic of other men just existing. Not specificallly as competitors but just being there. I posted quite a few thoughts on that topic here:
https://f95zone.to/threads/rovering-to-sussex-ch-1-v0-1-1-zargon_games-rfb.116267/
Also not to universal approval, I might add....

Have you tried Sorcerer yet? It's certainly one of the better games on this site and not many would find it boring. Although some do not like the sex scenes and the MC's wealth does a lot of the lifting.

 

[Yngling]

Have you tried Sorcerer yet? It's certainly one of the better games on this site and not many would find it boring. Although some do not like the sex scenes and the MC's wealth does a lot of the lifting.

Not yet but thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Diconica]

I want to clarify my answer. I selected without don't want to see at all.

In RL I've never had a woman decide she wanted to leave me for someone else.
I tend to always treat them right.
I wouldn't date the bitch who simply decide to leave like that. You can always spot their type a mile away. Not worth my time.
There have been guys that don't take the hint when the girlfriend or wife told them no.
Some guys back of when I step in. Some have had to have their asses hand to them. One pissed me off so bad I dug up dirt on his ass and sent him to jail. Another got deported and one simply fled the country.

If I am just made to watch shit and given the shitty choices most games give you then I have no interest in it. I have zero interest in some other guy banging my girl. The exception is if the story is meant to be an NTR and just that not some hybrid crap or one of the fake NTR even then the story better be good.

If you are going to put other guys in it. Make sure she acts in response to how she is treated. If she tells him NO. I should be able to step in. If they don't back off I should be able to escalate it include nuclear option. Especially if magic is involved. I'd drop their ass in a blackhole.

 

[Geralt_R]

If you are going to put other guys in it. Make sure she acts in response to how she is treated. If she tells him NO. I should be able to step in.

I think that's the best approach to this genre: make it at least somewhat realistic and avoidable if you take proper actions, i.e. give me the option to never treat my partner like shit or to be faithful to her (so she has no real reason to leave or cheat) or if someone still approaches her make her say "no" if she is treated right and/or at least give me the option to intervene. Maybe not necessarily resulting in deportation or jail , but still removing him from the game for good.

 

[obibobi]

The elitism from some of these comments is laughable, it essentially reads as "you like fictional pure girls, well you're a virgin and I'm a chad because I like fictional girls who've been dicked". I mean it shouldn't come at the expense of a good story or common sense but when writing fantasy why hold back on what's best.

As for the main question. No, if you need to ask you're very likely going to do it badly and it will just be some waste of time character.

I could count on one hand the amount of games I've played with male characters other than the protagonist that where actually good characters, that doesn't mean the male characters where bad, just that you didn't really care if they just vanished. If can write characters to bring the world alive do it, but few can.

 

[zapzero]

A good story ALWAYS has adversity for the hero to overcome to achieve his goal.
Doesn't always have to be manifested as other males.

But overcoming adversity is required. Simple as that.

 

[Loganfin]

The elitism from some of these comments is laughable, it essentially reads as "you like fictional pure girls, well you're a virgin and I'm a chad because I like fictional girls who've been dicked". I mean it shouldn't come at the expense of a good story or common sense but when writing fantasy why hold back on what's best.

As for the main question. No, if you need to ask you're very likely going to do it badly and it will just be some waste of time character.

I could count on one hand the amount of games I've played with male characters other than the protagonist that where actually good characters, that doesn't mean the male characters where bad, just that you didn't really care if they just vanished. If can write characters to bring the world alive do it, but few can.

I think that the heart of the issue is that all of us here want different things. Some are here for an extremely well written and believable VN. Others, like myself, prefer a fun, very unrealistic game based around sex and persuing various women. And because we all want different things, no one game, or story, is going to satisfy everyone, no matter how good it might be. One person's Hell Yes is another's nah, no thanks. And no one is wrong. Its like asking what your favorite food is.

 

[Diconica]

A lot of my opinions are well received, but sometimes I can totally MISS THE MARK. This post I made was totally disliked:
...

I thought I would come back with some constructive information rather than just my opinion.
You should check out

You must be registered to see the links

.
It's used for keeping track of all the important details in writing a book building worlds. It's probably more used for RPG campaign development.
That said there are number of systems out there that provide similar uses.
In truth you don't need it but looking at it will give you a good clue as to what stuff you should be paying attention to in your story to improve them.

Every story is base around some sort of conflict. Man vs Man, Man vs Beast, Man vs Nature/God, Man vs themselves ...
There is always something to over come. Longer stories have various smaller events of this nature.
Harem games get stuck in a rut if your primary adversary is the new babes X or some dink that wants a piece.
There are vastly better things that can be focused on.
Maybe, you are a conqueror or trying to free your home land...
Your harem could be your adventure party. You go around doing quests and dungeons and so on seeking fortune.
Maybe, you are the villain or slave trader ...
Doesn't matter what it is any part of those stories is vastly more interesting than having to deal with Joe Schmo.
To counter that the guy would need to be some major character and do something on the order of kidnap her from you.
To which you would then mount a rescue mission.
The point is in most cases it would take a fairly large character role to even make it worth having in most harem games.

You also need to realize there is a huge plot hole of some outside no body becoming any form of challenge to the MC.
The MC is a guy by design who can manage multiple relationships with women and they not want to break it off with him.
Then you are going to throw some piss ant into the fight and think he has any real chance. If the MC is the character the game makes him out to start with then the women should effectively laugh at the new character. The only way around that would be if the MC was the only real available male in the area to start with until Tom DiddlyDee shows the hell up.
Even then the chances of the women going for the complete outsider they know nothing about wouldn't be as likely.
You could always throw magic in as the excuse. The outsider uses magic. But then you have to come up with a way for the MC to counter it or do away with the outsider. The point is that becomes a mess.

The best answer when it comes to harem games is to stick to a larger main story and avoid the pitfalls of trying to bring other men in.

 

[Meaning Less]

If you fear other males it is because deep down you know your waifu doesn't really loves you.

And she never will.