Does grind in adult games is a must?

[The Surgeon]

Depends on the amount of grind I guess?
Grind will always be a substitute for real content, as it is meant to prolong the time inbetween (or before) sex scenes. You could fill that time with unique and new content, but that is very time consuming and therefore not really an option for most creators that need to push out updates to survive.
It's simple padding that builds up some kind of feeling that you've "worked" for your sex scenes, which is one of the core appeals of any H-Game anyway. This sense of rewarding could obviously be achieved by other means, but none as cost effective as grinding.

Personally I don't mind it in very small doses. Having to grind here and there for 10 Minutes isn't that much of a deal, but grinding as the core game mechanic is just poor design.

 

[DarthSeduction]

It worked for taffy tales tho

I think making a similar game is fine as long as you add something to it, happens pretty much all the time, just look at all the battle royales popping up

Would you say that making another Summertime Saga is what Taffy Tales did right? Because I'd chalk it up to the intriguing, though in my case alienating, art choices. Similarly Milfy City owes much of it's success to the Summertime-esque model which it apes, though it got rid of the stat crunching. The thing is though, I think much of Milfy City's success is due to ICSTOR's art. I haven't even played the christmas special still, because I'm kinda already bored by the plots. I'll get back to it eventually, but I feel like it, and many similar titles, have made the genre dead to me.

The same can be said for battle royale. TBH, the more they make, the more I feel like people are selling an incomplete game. Sure, Battle Royale was a fun game mode, but it's like going to McDonald's every time you're hungry just for the french fries. Eventually, you're gonna want some nuggets.

 

[DarthSeduction]

It's simple padding that builds up some kind of feeling that you've "worked" for your sex scenes, which is one of the core appeals of any H-Game anyway. This sense of rewarding could obviously be achieved by other means, but none as cost effective as grinding.

That model is so toxic though. Sex isn't something you earn. That's the kind of mentality that breeds incels and white knights. I know games aren't gonna be perfect, but it would be nice to have a more nuanced approach to things. Make what you earn be something else, and the sex be a part of the game. Imagine, if you will, something like The Last of Us, only instead of an older man and a child, it's a small group of young adults. Or, ape the Bioware idea, have an epic RPG story with several different companions who you can romance along the way. Make the sexual content a part of the journey and you'll not need to grind for it.

 

[Winterfire]

Yeah pretty much, even I did something plain as my first project but this time I am attempting something more "unique".

The model of summertime saga is nice so I am not surprised people take inspiration from it, I had once thought of making something similar too in 3D but kinda gave up on the idea shortly after because such a game would be hard to make.
The problem with it (which I have encountered on summertime saga a few times) is that you have the freedom to advance a "route" too much and then once you start another one, it doesn't quite make sense... He acts like it's the first time when in reality it is not.

Since there are many great games already inspired by it, I think it wouldn't be worth the effort to make yet another similar one

 

[SeventhVixen]

Well, first of all, grind is a negative word. A sandbox with repeteable actions it's no grind per se, it's grindy when that actions become excessive. It's like when in RPG you select how much strenght your character have. You at the start of the game put in there "12", Grind will be having to click on "Lumberjacking work" 200 times to get that 12 points on Strenght, for no reason at all. Grand Theft Auto Online needs grind so the players with real money can pay to skip it, usually, your NSFW game doesn't need grind.

Wanted to comment also on the original poster. The "fetch/look for that object and find who needs it to progress in the story" is no any kind of grind per se, it's the Adventure model.

There is another game mechanic important as far as sandox/repeteable actions go. Time management. When you have, like a lot of old nsfw games, let's say, 30 days to the end of the game, and you must path/discover the best actions to do in those 30 days in order to romance/fuck the desired/s girl/s girls, (Monday Schedule: go work, go gym, go run, go sleep), that's not a grind, it's a time management game mechanic.

If the game time is infinite, so all events will play eventually, Having repeatble actions like that doesn't have even place in the game if they're not content filled (EVERYtime you go to run an New event happens), because you're not figthing against time. You're just grinding stats without repercussion.

Grinding ocurrs when Dev inflate playtime without any content or reward (the reward is already there and will be giving to you after 1 or 1000 clicks).

@DarthSeduction hits the point when the "grindy" actions can well fit the story. It's a must. Even if the kind of actions are just a grind after time without new events for every action, at least fit the story and is more permissible.

So, Grinding is sometimes Ok for multiplayer games (and complex single player games, aka MSG5), a player sometimes want to play the game after max level/campaing is over and at least has daily quest to repeat an have an excuse to play, even if the reward of the 10.000 reputations points will not come until months later; the player is just grinding because he wants to play (Or REALLY wants that giant-ass new pauldrons).

But in the current model of NSFW-In-development-play-update-after-update-game, avoid Bad grinding everytime you can make the game, or players will just avoid playing your game anymore until has hours and hours of new content.


PS: In my case I'm making an Adventure, VN conversations like, and sort some of freeroam with ocassional Non-Random combats, but everything that is in the game is storywise. You freeroam because you can select where you can go first, and have to figure out what to do first, what conversations you do have to make first and what to say, in order to complete the goal of the game (As I say recently in other post, It's important that the game has a clear goal).

Let's shower every two days! My goal is to be nearly-clean for the next 400 gamedays!

 

[The Surgeon]

That model is so toxic though. Sex isn't something you earn. That's the kind of mentality that breeds incels and white knights. I know games aren't gonna be perfect, but it would be nice to have a more nuanced approach to things. Make what you earn be something else, and the sex be a part of the game. Imagine, if you will, something like The Last of Us, only instead of an older man and a child, it's a small group of young adults. Or, ape the Bioware idea, have an epic RPG story with several different companions who you can romance along the way. Make the sexual content a part of the journey and you'll not need to grind for it.

Absolutely, the gamification as a whole is something thats inherent to sex games though. Or at least to the current form, which is basically allowing you to seduce anyone, given that you make the "right" choices. It's all dependend on you and what you do, I believe that thats inherently sending a toxic message.
On the other hands, these games are meant as a power fantasy, being a person who can seduce anyone is the fantasy being sold.

I think at the end of the day, this fantasy is inherently toxic in its core, there is no denying in that. Which doesn't mean that nobody should be allowed to make or play them. But you're totally right that it's all about the "how" in that case and that grinding is inherently a "bad" mechanic in that regard.

 

[HopesGaming]

I am not too much fan of grinding for adult content.
This sentence would probably give some people raised eyebrows for people that ever played my game.
But the thing is - the grind in my game is for the gameplay element. The rpg stuff.
Doing repeatable stuff - getting levels and money - getting gear - being able to do stuff with that gear. The game has only the framework down so far now it's very bare and feels empty.

The adult stuff, however, I make it so all the items (and whatnot) only require a minimal amount of money. So there is no grind involved in progressing with the romanceable character.

Other times grind is involved is for immersion reason.
Learning to dance? Don't expect to simply click a book and be done with it. But make it so it takes a couple of days.

Immersion is what many of us play games for. Grinding is a tool for that.
The goal is to find the balance in which it does not feel like a chore but at the same time doesn't remove the immersion (or the satisfaction). And that balance is not always easy. So lot's of trial and error is needed.

 

[freedom.call]

Grinding is not a must but I like some grinding games. My least favorite games have combat/fighting/quests and such.

If I wanted to be a warrior I would have been born 500 years ago and been the best warrior! True story.

 

[lexx228]

of course, the grind is needed, but not to stretch the time of gameplay(as it happens in 99% of games), but for the development of the plot and raising interest in achieving the result...
in the process of obtaining the desired goal should be intermediate results, visible and understandable to the player-then it will be interesting to play, and not just look at the pictures.
sorry my eng

 

[W65]

As a bunch of people in the thread have said, "grind" is a pejorative for when the gameplay becomes too tedious to be worth the payoff (in story or porn or whatever). It gets used a little preemptively, I think, by folks who just don't like certain kinds of gameplay. That's not to say that there aren't kinds of gameplay that can very easily end up being grindy. As a fan of RPGs I'm the first to say that they too easily devolve into "hold button to finish encounter" or "repeat this encounter far too many times by the end of the dungeon."

Portals of Phereon is a good example of the latter: the game has SRPG-type combat, so you really can't just hold down a button to win, but you spend a huge fraction of game-time hacking through these encounters when you're exploring the game's maps. There's a reason that Final Fantasy Tactics had just a couple random encounter areas between plot battles.

EraMegaten is really the same way, with some areas having encounters literally every step or two. As an expressly Japanese RPG-type text-based game I guess it's expected. It helps that you can get items and skills to bypass encounters.

Different populations of players are going to be all over the map when it comes to tolerance for different gameplay elements. It's pretty much impossible to get a reliable read on actual players of these games--folks speaking out in forums like this one are self-selected, not necessarily representative of any particular gaming segment, and are probably going to be more outspoken about their feelings than the average player. It's kind of an unfortunate thing for developers. It's one thing to make a game that the developer wants to play, and it's another thing to make a game that the developer and a sizable number of other gamers want to play. Even if money's not involved, nobody wants to pour their heart into something, launch it out into the world, and hear it plop softly onto the ground to no fanfare.

(A porn game review blog with some significant readership would be a small help with that latter problem.)

 

[Loqic]

No one wants to work an 8 hour assembly line shift every day for less then minimum wage because they enjoy it. Increase the income every day and get promoted to a better function every week and it suddenly becomes pretty attractive.
It's the same with games. It has to be rewarding in some way or another if you want to add some grinding elements.

Adding it just to lengthen playtime or because you're out of story material is just bad practice. If for some reason you it really needs to be added, at least introduce some variation to the scenes or story.

One game that pops up in my mind right now is Caliross. You have to work to earn money, so working as a maid cleaning rooms at the inn is an option. One day, some old dude is eyeing you, the next day you can peep on some couple trying to reproduce, the day after, the old guy tries to grope you, or the couple invites you in, etc, etc.
Starting the same action leads to many variations and paths to keep it interesting to come back. Better yet, you can even choose to work at the bakery, teahouse, brothel, clothing shop, café, etc all with different variations each.
Other games also try this, but you'll have one option to repeat and watch the same thing 50 times to get one step further while slowly turning into a vegetative state yourself.

In the end it all comes down to a balance of effort and reward while at the same time trying to keep the player interested to continue playing.