VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.7.5 Public] [Caribdis]

[HentaiGamerN00b]

Is not the first time that a supposed event is timeskipped, but usually is because the real event is much better (Dalia's massages being made offscreen, for example). Going to class is boring, being alone in Luna's house or trapped in a pirate ship... is better.

Yep, it wasn't the first time. But there are some differences, for example, at first the game focus in the school life because it was introductory for the girls and those who could antagonize or become in potential useful characters for later in the narrative. So, as presentations are done, becomes more important the relationships and bonding that mainly occurs outside of school, but this time could be for knowing a bit more of MC's life outside of Kredon in UK. Therefore, a bit of the internal grow of Orion was missed besides how that affected his relationships not only with the girls but with those outside of Kredon, that was a missed chance as what we could expect from his training after reaching some point as well, to have a surprise that could be waited instead of a plot device.

Orion's description of the trip makes your post simply wishful thinking tbh. It's quite clear from his words that he was mainly there to visit his grandparents and swinging by to Chang's and/or Annie's folks is just stuff he did likely to assure them that his friends are fine back in Kredon. Thus, the Eternum training is likely just stuff he managed to squeeze in during the trip, likely when he's back at his own home. Hardly enough time to interact with the girls if that's the case (not to mention the timezone differences), let alone swing by the Eternumite community in the UK.

So again, hardly something worth devoting a significant chunk of an update to.

Because it is... And as i said, it doesn't mean that it couldn't be other way, about the zone time differences, yeah is a thing, but not something impossible to manage as there could be at least 5 to 8 hours difference iirc between USA and UK depending of time zones (an example is if in Washington is 1pm then in UK is 5pm, it's that hard to manage?), it's difficult to think that he was needed to assure that his friends are fine in Kredon as they and their respective parents could make use of any software with video chat to have a conversation to keep in touch. Iirc, most of his time Orion has passed alone before moving to Kredon, so, it wasn't like his presence would change anything beyond some initial interaction, even his dad seems to forget to say good bye when he was leaving to return to Kredon. And of course, because of that it's justified that Orion thinks in Kredon like his home, because there are ppl who loves them and loves too. What bugs me is that it feels like his life in UK is non existent.

 

[Dorfnutter]

What bugs me is that it feels like his life in UK is non existent.

It's not that it's non-existent (otherwise Orion wouldn't have elaborated on it). It's just that it's not overall important to the narrative as a whole. Again, just because it could've served as a good character building moment doesn't mean Cari should've used it, especially if it meant uncharacteristically slowing down the pacing of the narrative.

Again, the focus is on the gems and Orion bonding with the girls and such. Do you seriously think we should dump all of that for some sort of training montage and chatter with Orion's folks? Do you understand how boring/pointless that sounds to the people who are paying Cari to focus on the important bits and not getting sidetracked much?

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

It's not that it's non-existent (otherwise Orion wouldn't have elaborated on it). It's just that it's not overall important to the narrative as a whole. Again, just because it could've served as a good character building moment doesn't mean Cari should've used it, especially if it meant uncharacteristically slowing down the pacing of the narrative.

Again, the focus is on the gems and Orion bonding with the girls and such. Do you seriously think we should dump all of that for some sort of training montage and chatter with Orion's folks? Do you understand how boring/pointless that sounds to the people who are paying Cari to focus on the important bits and not getting sidetracked much?

It's not dump it just add more character development to not get a shock next time we see him doing things because the narrative needs to while keep up with the hopes for the most fapper fan base.

 

[Dorfnutter]

It's not dump it just add more character development to not get a shock next time we see him doing things because the narrative needs to while keep up with the hopes for the most fapper fan base.

Which again, is ultimately pointless if it is just for flavor but does not serve the greater narrative or hampers the pacing of the plot. We've already gone through that kind of storytelling with OIAL, and by the way this tale is going I don't think he's keen on telling this story in that way again.

 

[Dorfnutter]

Honestly I don't think so. We have a lot of small moments in the game, that progress characters and/or relationships. Like Alex and Dalia in the park, Ariel and Orion in the kitchen, Penny and Orion in the shower, Nova with her Manga and so on.

All of which acted as interludes before main events. Not to mention they're all brief and don't put a hatchet to the overall pacing.

You misspelled Ashley.

I'm also not sure, she will join Orion and Luna...

Luna?

Oh you meant Yuna.

Nah Annie's prolly gonna be with Shandie to follow up on the Andromeda lead. Patty's likely gonna be free though. Not sure if Mona's gonna join. Guess that depends if Orion doesn't completely break her during their home date.

 

[Takkatakka]

Which again, is ultimately pointless if it is just for flavor but does not serve the greater narrative or hampers the pacing of the plot. We've already gone through that kind of storytelling with OIAL, and by the way this tale is going I don't think he's keen on telling this story in that way again.

In the end it would've kinda depend on how Cari would've written it, I can't shake the feeling though, that the timeskip really wasn't originally planned while he was developing 0.5.

 

[Ungawa]

It's not that it's non-existent (otherwise Orion wouldn't have elaborated on it). It's just that it's not overall important to the narrative as a whole. Again, just because it could've served as a good character building moment doesn't mean Cari should've used it, especially if it meant uncharacteristically slowing down the pacing of the narrative.

Again, the focus is on the gems and Orion bonding with the girls and such. Do you seriously think we should dump all of that for some sort of training montage and chatter with Orion's folks? Do you understand how boring/pointless that sounds to the people who are paying Cari to focus on the important bits and not getting sidetracked much?

With respect, I side a bit more with H. Gamer on this because the little side stories can help build up to the main story if you catch my drift. That one time that Penny was underdressed while wanting talking like Orion wasn't there because she hadn't noticed? That helps build up little details you notice later (such as how many sugars she wanted in her coffee).

An author can use those little moments to build to a larger one but as you say it is a balancing act. But still, if Cari does need to, he should flashback to that moment to point out anything as important, be it Luna's powers were a bit more powerful on Monday or something because Luna barely got screen time and she desperately needs it. Still, if he hung a lampshade on meeting Monday, he should give it importance to her. That can probably alleviate the situation so people can endear themselves to Luna just a bit more.

You are correct that he can't put everything into the small moments, but done correctly, they make the whole story that much more enjoyable. Just my two eternals. Now pardon me... I'm waiting for the next update...

Spoiler: Where it at though?

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[Dorfnutter]

In the end it would've kinda depend on how Cari would've written it, I can't shake the feeling though, that the timeskip really wasn't originally planned while he was developing 0.5.

Timeskip being about Orion visiting his folks, maybe. But as Cari had said on Discord...



...So I'd wager he has the World War for the GoD event planned but he needed to find a way to jump to that following the Wyatt visit AND get Orion's powers up to speed without needlessly dwelling on a training montage. The timeskip was the likely solution to that (though its likely that he thought of the UK trip after pondering his options on what he could use as an excuse for the skip)

With respect, I side a bit more with H. Gamer on this because the little side stories can help build up to the main story if you catch my drift.

Side stories that help build the relationship with the LIs, sure. But what H is asking for is to provide a glimpse of Orion's life in the UK instead of a skip which, while something that would be nice to see, ultimately would be a pointless endeavour if Cari never calls back to it or utilize it later on in the plot.

"Butbut Orion trained during those times, so it counts for something!" Yes...but I (and likely a lot of Cari's fans and patreons) would rather have him use the time to perfect Yuna's butt jiggle physics when the time comes for Orion to slap them instead of making the effort to plan and choreograph a training montage.

(Also I seem to recall reading a comment of Cari's on Itch.io that he doesn't like choreographing/rendering fight scenes or anything resembling that and he'd like to avoid it unless absolutely necessary (i.e. Ogygia fights, Semper Invicta Colosseum fight), hence the reason why we never directly see Alex going ham on those soldiers and are treated instead to a good ol' tracking shot above the trench while sounds of gunfire and screams and people being torn apart happen below)

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

Timeskip being about Orion visiting his folks, maybe. But as Cari had said on Discord...

View attachment 2942964

...So I'd wager he has the World War for the GoD event planned but he needed to find a way to jump to that following the Wyatt visit AND get Orion's powers up to speed without needlessly dwelling on a training montage. The timeskip was the likely solution to that (though its likely that he thought of the UK trip after pondering his options on what he could use as an excuse for the skip)

The problem with that is the extension of his OP Skill has been Orion's discover or developed, now with that lacking, the use of that is literally a plot device to move forward the narrative when the overall story needed, because he can do whatever he wants at the circumstances require it.

Side stories that help build the relationship with the LIs, sure. But what H is asking for is to provide a glimpse of Orion's life in the UK instead of a skip which, while something that would be nice to see, ultimately would be a pointless endeavour if Cari never calls back to it or utilize it later on in the plot.

"Butbut Orion trained during those times, so it counts for something!" Yes...but I (and likely a lot of Cari's fans and patreons) would rather have him use the time to perfect Yuna's butt jiggle physics when the time comes for Orion to slap them instead of making the effort to plan and choreograph a training montage.

(Also I seem to recall reading a comment of Cari's on Itch.io that he doesn't like choreographing/rendering fight scenes or anything resembling that and he'd like to avoid it unless absolutely necessary (i.e. Ogygia fights, Semper Invicta Colosseum fight), hence the reason why we never directly see Alex going ham on those soldiers and are treated instead to a good ol' tracking shot above the trench while sounds of gunfire and screams and people being torn apart happen below)

And what part of that life the girls aren't part of?, as i stated, the time zone difference isn't at most impossible to schedule for nobody, they still could cellphone text messages, meet and fuck on Eternum as i said before, to see a glance of his life outside Kredon in which he passed most of his unknown to us life but some lil saying by comments from Orion and a flashback of his fathers back watching sports.

There could be meetings inside Eternum and text message to organize the search for information, as Orion's could have met the Eternumite community of UK, and perhaps some friends of Annie that play with her in Eternum. Being witnesses of Orion's progress on his powers in a first glance. But instead of that, it feels unreal, like he haven't communication with the girls once he step UK, all day doing WTF exactly?, meeting his grandpa's home, his dad that he barely see, Annie's and Chang parents to make them sure both are fine in Kredon as they couldn't manage to get in touch with their own offspring (WTF this is serious?) and some random training in which the elf princess develop a stalker behavior.

If you are happy with that, cool for you bro.

 

[Ungawa]

(Also I seem to recall reading a comment of Cari's on Itch.io that he doesn't like choreographing/rendering fight scenes or anything resembling that and he'd like to avoid it unless absolutely necessary (i.e. Ogygia fights, Semper Invicta Colosseum fight), hence the reason why we never directly see Alex going ham on those soldiers and are treated instead to a good ol' tracking shot above the trench while sounds of gunfire and screams and people being torn apart happen below)

I've done some work modeling.

You want to talk about pain in the ASS... I know Monty Oum (RWBY) was a great one before he died, but I'm not about that life. Gimme sexy time over fighty time any day...

 

[Elhemeer]

Okay, I'm just going to throw my two cents in and then check out:

If the author doesn't write the scene, we're not going to get it unless someone makes fanfic.​

Cari didn't write the scene ... there's no indication he's going to write the scene. The rest is in your lap now.

 

[Dorfnutter]

The problem with that is the extension of his OP Skill has been Orion's discover or developed, now with that lacking, the use of that is literally a plot device to move forward the narrative when the overall story needed, because he can do whatever he wants at the circumstances require it.

Yes, and how is that exactly any different from Nova having Dione being a solution to just about any ranged encounter? Or Caly being able to port anyone when things get too hot, no matter the circumstances so long as she's not "tired-because-plot-reasons?" Or Nancy snugly fitting in her Empress role and winging it every single time? Or Luna being able to summon powerful beings with ease?

Point being: the idea that Cari would go out of his way to write events solely for the main characters to hone and develop their abilities (and not relegate them to snippets or glimpses like in the case of Dalia's and Orion's training) has been thrown out of the window ever since Ogygia. Effort has instead been placed on finding out the origin of said powers and items, which is part of the mystery that'll likely be unraveled as we go further into the story. If you think that's going to change anytime soon, then you're not paying attention to how Cari is writing this story at all.

And what part of that life the girls aren't part of?, as i stated, the time zone difference isn't at most impossible to schedule for nobody, they still could cellphone text messages, meet and fuck on Eternum as i said before, to see a glance of his life outside Kredon in which he passed most of his unknown to us life but some lil saying by comments from Orion and a flashback of his fathers back watching sports.

There could be meetings inside Eternum and text message to organize the search for information, as Orion's could have met the Eternumite community of UK, and perhaps some friends of Annie that play with her in Eternum. Being witnesses of Orion's progress on his powers in a first glance. But instead of that, it feels unreal, like he haven't communication with the girls once he step UK, all day doing WTF exactly?, meeting his grandpa's home, his dad that he barely see, Annie's and Chang parents to make them sure both are fine in Kredon as they couldn't manage to get in touch with their own offspring (WTF this is serious?) and some random training in which the elf princess develop a stalker behavior.

Again, YOU think it's important to see. I think it's nice but it adds nothing to the overall narrative if the events in the trip aren't going to play a part later on in the story. And if Orion is going to spend his trip logging in to Eternum with the girls and/or use that time to investigate, then why even have him go in the bloody trip in the first place? Why even bother with the time skip? Just have Orion stay in Kredon working on his powers leading up to the WW event at the beginning of this update. Nevermind the fact that doing that just turns it into ANOTHER downtime update like in 0.5, with the only difference being that said downtime happens in Eternum.

Not to mention the fact that having Orion meet up with the UK Eternumite community adds more uneccesary elements to the mix. Like we already have a large cast and we're likely going to grow that further with the survivors of the Collector whodunit, the Syndicate, the identity of the mysterious man in the Ulysses party, any important members of Caly's race (assuming any of them are still alive at this point)...why would we need even more major characters (or minor ones if they don't show up again) to keep track of? Just because?

If you are happy with that, cool for you bro.

Considering how much I absolutely HATED the downtime in OIAL's early chapters with every fiber of my being and how your comments are basically asking a repeat of that storytelling process...yes, I am absolutely happy with how Cari is telling the story in Eternum now, thank you very much.

 

[SerHawkes]

Jesus fucking christ... Just go get the best girl Alex and have her ride your dick and cool down with the circle jerking of theories people...

 

[Elhemeer]

Jesus fucking christ... Just go get the best girl Alex and have her ride your dick and cool down with the circle jerking of theories people...

You realize you just asked about 50% of the regular posters in this thread to SHUT UP, right?

/s

 

[Dorfnutter]

Jesus fucking christ... Just go get the best girl Alex and have her ride your dick and cool down with the circle jerking of theories people...

Serhawkes: /starts a shitshow fight calling out Annie just to get the thread pumping and the chaos rolling...

Also Serhawkes: "Wtf cool down guys, Jesus."

Me:

 

[Ungawa]

Ya'll know I got memes for dayz now right?

 

[SerHawkes]

You realize you just asked about 50% of the regular posters in this thread to SHUT UP, right?

/s

To be fair, I'm sure others would like to join the conversation, instead of having the thread residences go on and on while being ignored trying to join the conversation. There are other threads and games. Just saying. Spread you wings, look up blue muffles, do lines of coke.

Serhawkes: /starts a shitshow fight calling out Annie just to get the thread pumping and the chaos rolling...

Stand by what I said. Annie is still average in looks and character. Alex is the true and rightful queen.

 

[Lilybelle]

Second, Annie would likely think that the situation is more dreadful than scary, considering that Orion likely told her that the dead are "digitized" in Eternum (as he thinks that's the case when he mentions it to Calypso), the latter likely thinking that they're just copies of the dead rather than, y'know, the literal dead which the story heavily hints that they are.

In regards to your second point, whether it's intentional or a little oversight by Orion, I don't think Annie is properly filled in on the Eternum situation the way we are. I very much think from Annie's perspective Eternum is still primarily just thought of as a game. I also consider this a notable discrepancy for our appreciations for Annie's scene progression this Chapter. In my eyes, the scene we had was actually an advancement that I greatly enjoyed. You'd mentioned in prior posts something to the effect of it seeming like Annie's scene felt like she'd regressed compared to the previous one due to her hiding in a shell again. However, I think from Annie's point of view, that previous confidence hadn't translated to the real world in her mind yet because she still views Eternum primarily as a game. I felt that it made sense for her to be hesitant to do things with Orion because Annie's real world behavior hadn't progressed to the same level as her Eternum behavior until now. Weighting it with these factors actually made it my favorite scene of the 4 (which I feel is saying a lot when you consider how rich the scenes got). That said, the other girls sure gave her a run for her money . While I'm sure most people wouldn't agree with me on that latter point, I hope that the alternate perspective provided can give a higher rating to the quality of Annie's scene.

 

[Yvier the Duck]

Stand by what I said. Annie is still average in looks and character. Alex is the true and rightful queen.

YOU MONSTER!!!

 

[Dorfnutter]

In regards to your second point, whether it's intentional or a little oversight by Orion, I don't think Annie is properly filled in on the Eternum situation the way we are. I very much think from Annie's perspective Eternum is still primarily just thought of as a game.

I don't think anyone in the group - not even Orion - is properly filled in on what exactly is happening in Eternum other than the excommunications and that those who undergo such are "digitized" (his words not mine). The way he said it made it look he's rationalizing the revelation at the end of 0.5 in a way that's understandable and logical, which makes me think that while he's diving deep on the matter, he's still operating under the limits of what is real and what is possible under said reality (hence his disbelief when Axel implied that the worlds of Eternum could be parallel dimensions of sorts).

Which is also why I think they're being nonchalant about things and still continue on with playing the game and participating in the gem hunt instead of investigating Ulysses outside of Eternum as well as inside (which lucky for Orion is something that Axel is currently doing and is likely what Nova is doing as well when she's not helping the gang during the gem hunts or playing Eternum herself).

I also consider this a notable discrepancy for our appreciations for Annie's scene progression this Chapter. In my eyes, the scene we had was actually an advancement that I greatly enjoyed. You'd mentioned in prior posts something to the effect of it seeming like Annie's scene felt like she'd regressed compared to the previous one due to her hiding in a shell again. However, I think from Annie's point of view, that previous confidence hadn't translated to the real world in her mind yet because she still views Eternum primarily as a game. I felt that it made sense for her to be hesitant to do things with Orion because Annie's real world behavior hadn't progressed to the same level as her Eternum behavior until now. Weighting it with these factors actually made it my favorite scene of the 4 (which I feel is saying a lot when you consider how rich the scenes got). That said, the other girls sure gave her a run for her money . While I'm sure most people wouldn't agree with me on that latter point, I hope that the alternate perspective provided can give a higher rating to the quality of Annie's scene.

I'm not sure I can subscribe to Annie having a game persona and a real persona that's distinct from one another to the point that they're in conflict given that it undermines one of the major themes of the VN as well as the point of Eternum ("more real than real life"). Granted, her skillset in Eternum is obviously different compared to the real, but the Red Herring event and her recent failings to showcase her power shows that no such personality divide exists. Annie in Eternum is pretty much the same IRL, minus the high level and magic powers. As such, I view her persona and experiences in Eternum to be progressive if not parallel to her experience IRL, which is why I saw her 0.6 scene as a regression.

Of course, you're free to disagree, but eh.