VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.9.5 Public] [Caribdis]

[Elhemeer]

You could make the case Chang as well. Bro has done much for us. MCxChang, 2030.

Also, don't take what I say as true. Meerly fighting words for the sake of conversation, even if I do fully believe Annie to be on the plainish side and most lacking overall in terms of characters.

Spoiler: Ahh, I see what you did there ...

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Wait till Marcela asks for us and we tag team her with Chang. Bro of ours will swoon.

 

[ArDZer]

The entire Star Wars saga wouldn't have happened without Jar Jar Binks. The Lord of the Rings wouldn't have happened without Celebrimbor. Remember him? Being a functionally important character doesn't make one an interesting character. :

My problem with Annie isn't really with Annie, but with how underused she is. Her initially most defining trait (being really into/knowledgeable about Eternum) loses its significance once the other characters start getting good at it, too. I wouldn't mind a story development that really reminded players of/drove home who the real Eternum wiz is.

Why do you think Annie herself thought back at the trenches that everyone saw her as useless. That hit her very hard, and it was made even worse after she became unintentionally an artillery spotter rather than a nuking mage.

Spoiler: Maximus must have a nuclear orb with his name written on it by now, he doesn't know that yet

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[Dorfnutter]

The entire Star Wars saga wouldn't have happened without Jar Jar Binks. The Lord of the Rings wouldn't have happened without Celebrimbor. Remember him? Being a functionally important character doesn't make one an interesting character. :

That wasn't what I argued against. My argument was against the statement that she hasn't done "anything remarkable" to Orion other than give him a bunch of Eternals. The mere act of having her come to Kredon with him (which convinces him to go through with the Exchange Program) is by itself already a remarkable thing.

My problem with Annie isn't really with Annie, but with how underused she is. Her initially most defining trait (being really into/knowledgeable about Eternum) loses its significance once the other characters start getting good at it, too. I wouldn't mind a story development that reminded players of who the real Eternum wiz is.

Because that's part of her story arc: she's supposed to be this Eternum veteran who is somehow being thrust out of her element due to the gem hunt taking her to places she's not accustomed to going (i.e. spooky places, places that utilize brain than brawn, places where she can't use her destructive magic) and being surrounded by all these women who have a lot of things going for them in the looks department. She's meant to be this scaredy-cat who will have to step up and rise to the occasion (and is also reflected with how she's coming out of her shell when it comes to her relationship with Orion). If anything, it's in the late game where she's likely going to shine as she's still in the phase where she's learning to assert her dominance and shit.

 

[Elhemeer]

Why do you think Annie herself thought back at the trenches that everyone saw her as useless. That hit her very hard, and it was made even worse after she became unintentionally an artillery spotter rather than a nuking mage.

Spoiler: Maximus must have a nuclear orb with his name written on it

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Yea, it's not like that was an accidental moment either. Caribdis is definitely teeing up Annie. I don't think she's going to be thought of as useless much longer. Solving the collector's riddle was just the first step.

 

[Elhemeer]

That wasn't what I argued against. My argument was against the statement that she hasn't done "anything remarkable" to Orion other than give him a bunch of Eternals. The mere act of having her come to Kredon with him (which convinces him to go through with the Exchange Program) is by itself already a remarkable thing.



Because that's part of her story arc: she's supposed to be this Eternum veteran who is somehow being thrust out of her element due to the gem hunt taking her to places she's not accustomed to going (i.e. spooky places, places that utilize brain than brawn, places where she can't use her destructive magic) and being surrounded by all these women who have a lot of things going for them in the looks department. She's meant to be this scaredy-cat who will have to step up and rise to the occasion (and is also reflected with how she's coming out of her shell when it comes to her relationship with Orion). If anything, it's in the late game where she's likely going to shine as she's still in the phase where she's learning to assert her dominance and shit.

(twice in one hour ... yesh)
*This message has been brought to you by "FARL" (Fappers Against Reaction Limits)*

 

[ArDZer]

Yea, it's not like that was an accidental moment either. Caribdis is definitely teeing up Annie. I don't think she's going to be thought of as useless much longer. Solving the collector's riddle was just the first step.

If that continues, Annie might burst into tears for real. Like this chibi shared some pages back:

Oh, poor thing. Her time to shine will come eventually (and it better not be some scary monsters, non magical servers or Maximus around to ruin that).

 

[Drearash]

Quite funny because I feel like it's the contrary for me, she's been underused by Caribdis (always making fun of her,scaredy-cat during the horror part,...) and not at all overrated .
The part of her being the childhood friend only makes me want to put her on top of list (I always root for the childhood friend in Anime/series since they are generaly more "genuine")
And she's been useful too:
-She's the reason Orion came back to Kredon, he said it himself

This is all stuff we're told, not shown, about how important she is to the story.

-She has introduced Eternum to Orion and gave him 1200 Eternals (Which represents 1200 dollars, for a 18 year student that represent quite a lot of money)

Yup, and this trait gets criminally underutilized once the other characters get good at Eternum.

-She's the one who stole the gem of Doom during the Heist

Everyone had a role to play in the Heist.

-She's the one who discover the truth during the dectective part during the 0.6 update

That's legit. I'll give you that. Not only is she functionally important here, but her *character* actually brings something to the situation. We need more of that.

So I don't think she's been useless.
(I won't take the "average in looks" into account because it's a part of personnal tastes but I do find that she has, alongside Penny, the most pretty face of all LI)

 

[Ellyx]

This is all stuff we're told, not shown, about how important she is to the story.



Yup, and this trait gets criminally underutilized once the other characters get good at Eternum.



Everyone had a role to play in the Heist.



That's legit. I'll give you that. Not only is she functionally important here, but her *character* actually brings something to the situation. We need more of that.

I'm off to work so I can't really reply to you but I don't get why some of you are trying so hard to prove us that she's been useless and that she hasn't done remarkable things. All LI of the Harem are irremplaceable and useful,on that note have a good day .

 

[Drearash]

I'm off to work so I can't really reply to you but I don't get why some of you are trying so hard to prove us that she's been useless and that she hasn't done remarkable things. All LI of the Harem are irremplaceable and useful,on that note have a good day .

I'm not. I'm pointing out that being functionally important to the plot is not the same thing as being interesting or appealing or compelling as a character. Celebrimbor did remarkable things. Is he an interesting character? Heck, Aragorn did remarkable things. Is *he* an interesting character? (in the books, that is? He's actually given some humanity and personality in the movies). You might think he is, but pointing out all the "stuff" that he did won't make your argument for you.

I'm also pointing out that Annie strikes me as underused. Not that she's useless.

 

[PervyParadox]

I'm not. I'm pointing out that being functionally important to the plot is not the same thing as being interesting or appealing or compelling as a character. Celebrimbor did remarkable things. Is he an interesting character? Heck, Aragorn did remarkable things. Is *he* an interesting character? (in the books, that is? He's actually given some humanity and personality in the movies). You might think he is, but pointing out all the "stuff" that he did won't make your argument for you.

I'm also pointing out that Annie strikes me as underused. Not that she's useless.

The fact you're using extremely bland characters as examples is kinda unnerving. Tolkien's characters are not interesting because he focused largely on world-building and not much else. The characters are here to be useful, but other than that they clearly lack deeper character traits that would make them "interesting".

This is different for Eternum, where each LI has her own character traits who make each of them interesting and appealing (except of course for people who are unable to appreciate it but, and I won't say it enough, that's on them despite them thinking otherwise). The world building is less extensive than Tolkien, but there's a better balance between story, world-building, and characters. Not only are they all useful, but they're also all interesting because they're different from the others and are believable as human beings.

I was trying to not enter the fray but damn is this hard. I should answer more when there's a good mood like BEFORE someone restarts the list thing, or say "[insert the name of a great character here] is the least interesting/useful" again...

 

[Dorfnutter]

I'm not. I'm pointing out that being functionally important to the plot is not the same thing as being interesting or appealing or compelling as a character. Celebrimbor did remarkable things. Is he an interesting character? Heck, Aragorn did remarkable things. Is *he* an interesting character? (in the books, that is? He's actually given some humanity and personality in the movies). You might think he is, but pointing out all the "stuff" that he did won't make your argument for you.

I'm also pointing out that Annie strikes me as underused. Not that she's useless.

I'd argue that seeing her struggle despite being a supposed veteran of Eternum already makes her far more interesting compared to how other veteran protagonist/major characters in fiction centered around MMOs are portrayed. Even in the WRE vs. Wagner Group event we already see the typical "heroine vets curbstomp mooks" thing going on with Alex, Nova, and Luna's segments during said event (and honestly that's kinda boring once you've seen it played out in every other media that portrays the same trope), so seeing at least ONE of them legitimately not being able to show off is only going to push her hard into eventually stepping up and not just being complacent as a nuke mage vet. But again, we're likely going to see that payoff later as her character arc develops further.

 

[fap2fap]

Alright... fuck it... Let the chaos begin.

Annie is borderline average. Only thing she has going for her is her being the childhood friend. She hasn't really done anything remarkable for us other than give us cash when we began. She's average in looks as well. Plainish but not entirely bad.

Overrated to say the least.

View attachment 2894588
Welcome to the Team

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Alright... fuck it... Let the chaos begin.

Annie is borderline average. Only thing she has going for her is her being the childhood friend. She hasn't really done anything remarkable for us other than give us cash when we began. She's average in looks as well. Plainish but not entirely bad.

Overrated to say the least.

Do you mean to tell me the guy who was defensive at me mocking Luna a few pages back is an Annie hater?

That's too perfect.

Annie is singlehandedly the reason why i DIDNT default to the harem choices on the first playthrough. Luna is great material for muh harem- that's not a complement. Annie on the other hand you'd immediately feel bad about dogging around left and right behind her back -your childhood friend who wanted nothing better in the world but to play her game with you (and get closer to you)

The real question of the hour: Do Annie haters have a soul?

Even in the WRE vs. Wagner Group event we already see the typical "heroine vets curbstomp mooks" thing going on with Alex, Nova, and Luna's segments during said event (and honestly that's kinda boring once you've seen it played out in every other media that portrays the same trope), so seeing at least ONE of them legitimately not being able to show off is only going to push her hard into eventually stepping up and not just being complacent as a nuke mage vet. But again, we're likely going to see that payoff later as her character arc develops further.

This is very true, the WW2 segment was the first area I actually started to ctrl-key through, because I was like 'i get it, I get it' without even reading the dialogue. Then Annie's drew me back in.

 

[fap2fap]

And yet the entire story wouldn't have happened had it not been for her.

View attachment 2894428

So yes, every single goddamn LI in the fucking harem (Calypso included) should be fucking grateful to her that she even tagged along, otherwise Orion would've stayed in the UK and events that led to where we are now wouldn't have been set in motion.

blud its like parents saying if not for us you wouldnt exist so you must do everything we say, annnnd it still doesnt change the fact that she is boring as hell

 

[Drearash]

The fact you're using extremely bland characters as examples is kinda unnerving. Tolkien's characters are not interesting because he focused largely on world-building and not much else. The characters are here to be useful, but other than that they clearly lack deeper character traits that would make them "interesting".

They are examples intended to distinguish between functional importance and character development. A character can be both functionally important and totally bland. Thus, giving examples of how functionally important a character is does nothing to establish how interesting they are. That's just not how you argue that a character is good. I'm not sure why making that point would be "unnerving" to you.

This is different for Eternum, where each LI has her own character traits who make each of them interesting and appealing (except of course for people who are unable to appreciate it but, and I won't say it enough, that's on them despite them thinking otherwise).

Shame on you for trying to poison the well like this. There is nothing wrong with people not liking the same things you do. Not everybody finds Annie particularly interesting and appealing. There is nothing wrong with that, nor with them.

The world building is less extensive than Tolkien, but there's a better balance between story, world-building, and characters. Not only are they all useful, but they're also all interesting because they're different from the others and are believable as human beings.

Eh, some are more interesting than others. Some are kinda one-note.

I don't have a problem with the idea that Annie has some interesting traits. I feel they have been underdeveloped so far. One of the main traits that initially set Annie apart from the other characters was her enthusiasm for/knowledge of Eternum. That got leveled out as the story progressed . Now everybody's playing.

Another thing that comes up in the detective sequence is that she is perceptive, intuitive, and empathetic. Those traits see her through that situation even when her magic powers are useless. If she's being "teed up" as another poster suggested, I hope it has something to do with that and not "she just needs to believe in herself" or "she just needs the right situation to shine/ to evolve a new power."

I was trying to not enter the fray but damn is this hard. I should answer more when there's a good mood like BEFORE someone restarts the list thing, or say "[insert the name of a great character here] is the least interesting/useful" again...
View attachment 2894570

Maybe you shouldn't get so upset that other people aren't fascinated by the same characters you are. If you can't have that discussion without upsetting yourself, try doing something else. Getting mad at people for saying they don't see what you see in a fictional character isn't healthy.

 

[An known]

Do you mean to tell me the guy who was defensive at me, mocking Luna a few pages back is an Annie hater?

That's too perfect.

The real question of the hour: Do Annie haters have a soul?

I mean their fan base were named "Lunatics" for a reason. (Sometimes they just let their intrusive thoughts win)

 

[fap2fap]

That user will get the full artillery barrage of Annie's fans, if he continues to be on the warpath:
View attachment 2894241
And he also got Maat's name wrong as well (not Matt as he wrote in his post).

Spoiler: Annie's facial expression if she could read the message from that user

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poor little N-E wishes she could do that bomb shit that her fans wants to do

 

[Dorfnutter]

blud its like parents saying if not for us you wouldnt exist so you must do everything we say, annnnd it still doesnt change the fact that she is boring as hell

Laughable that you say that as meeting and fucking Eva wouldn't even have been fucking possible had she not given those eternals to Orion.

 

[fap2fap]

Laughable that you say that as meeting and fucking Eva wouldn't even have been fucking possible had she not given those eternals to Orion.

yk what any-chan is the best wingman of mc
THE KDB TO MC's HAALAND

 

[Dorfnutter]

yk what any-chan is the best wingman of mc
THE KDB TO MC's HAALAND

Sure, sure, keep deluding yourself into thinking that she's only there as a wingman even when we get to the epilogue and she ends up preggers with the rest of the harem (and likely married to Orion as well).

Meanwhile Eva will continue to rot in the side girl bar where she rightfully belongs.