VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.9.5 Public] [Caribdis]

[Finuee]

See Dorfnutter's post just above, maybe he expressed it better.
Of course you can have casual sex without any emotional baggage or whatever. But probably not for your first time. Even if so, I'm not saying there'd be anything wrong with that, I just don't think picking up a random dude and letting him deflower her fits Alex' character. If she lost her virginity before Orion, I'm totally fine with that, my guess is just she didn't.

I understand where you come from and what you mean. And I see Dorfnutter 's point, too. I'm just saying that she can be waiting for the right man to open to, and be emotionally unavailable, and still have sex.

You also don't need to be promiscuous to have sex without being emotionally intimate, either. You can have a boyfriend, and still be emotionally closed to him.

Though I understand neither of you were making the point that she has to be either a virgin or promiscuous. I'm just saying it as an addendum, not aimed at your points.

 

[Julius Kingsley]

I guess its a culture thing. From my perspective, I dont think having casual sex is a big deal - you can bang people without being in love with them. Just because you sleep with someone does not mean its going to stop you from finding your prince charming or whatever in the future. Similarly just sleeping with a couple of people does not necessarily mean that magically turns you into a slut who sleeps around every single day - I can definitely see her sleep with someone, come to regret it or become disillusioned with the idea of love until she meets orion.

And the idea of 'saving your virginity' for your prince charming does not make much sense to me either because its not like losing your virginity will prevent you from finding love in the future. In my playthrough Orion lost his virginity to Eva and he fucked Maat as well. But I dont think his I love you confessions to Annie, Alex, Nova etc are fake just because he slept with side girls with no strings attached in the past - it was just casual sex. Its no big deal and does not prevent him from finding true love in the future.

To me this is just one of those things that is going to be ambiguous and left to the player's imagination. Just make up your headcanon and go with what you want.

I totally get you bro, but that’s the thing. You kinda answered yourself without realizing it. They’re still 18. The MC didn’t lose his virginity until the whole plot started, which makes sense given his age and situation. So we can say the same for Alex, and she’s way more guarded than any of the other girls. Again, these are just arguments, and everyone’s free to think what they want.

 

[Dorfnutter]

or may be along the ride as Alex grown up, that fairy tale faded away , but now that The Guy showed up it reminded her to that memory and to that dream, and may be it was not a fairy tale.

Whether she had sex with someone before Orion or not, does not change any of this. He not became any less special, in fact this makes him more special , if he Arrived when Alex was long has given up on that dream , what I belive would been more fitting and mature for her character anyway.
and Frankly this was the vibe I get.

Again, if she did that then that should've been shown in a flashback where, say, she threw off her cross at some point (which would be a strong indicator of her rebelling against her grandma or her "growing up" from her Nana's teachings/memories, the Prince Charming tale included). But at no point did that ever show up, even during an opportune moment (the Ulysses party heart-to-heart).

Also, no. The previews regarding Alex back before Eternum launched was something along the lines of her being a rebel as a facade, but underneath that is something else entirely. I would argue that young girl that we saw being nurtured by her Nana IS her true character, and that never really faded away (which is what your argument seems to suggest). Orion simply chipped away that tough exterior to get to that, rather than him making her remember (otherwise we wouldn't get that hug from her, which I would argue would definitely be out of character for a pure rebel).

 

[Julius Kingsley]

Again, if she did that then that should've been shown in a flashback where, say, she threw off her cross at some point (which would be a strong indicator of her rebelling against her grandma or her "growing up" from her Nana's teachings/memories, the Prince Charming tale included). But at no point did that ever show up, even during an opportune moment (the Ulysses party heart-to-heart).

Also, no. The previews regarding Alex back before Eternum launched was something along the lines of her being a rebel as a facade, but underneath that is something else entirely. I would argue that young girl that we saw being nurtured by her Nana IS her true character, and that never really faded away (which is what your argument seems to suggest). Orion simply chipped away that tough exterior to get to that, rather than him making her remember (otherwise we wouldn't get that hug from her, which I would argue would definitely be out of character for a pure rebel).

 

[ChipLecsap]

But again, she doesn't need to get pounded to realize they’re not what she was waiting for. So yeah, she’s still a virgin after all.

View attachment 4911229

And yet you say Virginity not what matters to you huh ?

All Joke aside, what I said, is 100% fitting for Alex personality and Character, than her being a Tattooed Rebel Nun.

What you are claiming is perfectly fitting for Annie, and we actually witnessed it .

Alex on the other hand perfectly believable that at some point she slept with 1 or 2 guy , not because she was searching for Prince Charming , but because she had long given up on Prince Charming.

May be that is why Cari did not make a big deal about it.

 

[ChipLecsap]

Again, if she did that then that should've been shown in a flashback where, say, she threw off her cross at some point (which would be a strong indicator of her rebelling against her grandma or her "growing up" from her Nana's teachings/memories, the Prince Charming tale included). But at no point did that ever show up, even during an opportune moment (the Ulysses party heart-to-heart).

Also, no. The previews regarding Alex back before Eternum launched was something along the lines of her being a rebel as a facade, but underneath that is something else entirely. I would argue that young girl that we saw being nurtured by her Nana IS her true character, and that never really faded away (which is what your argument seems to suggest). Orion simply chipped away that tough exterior to get to that, rather than him making her remember (otherwise we wouldn't get that hug from her, which I would argue would definitely be out of character for a pure rebel).

that's your interpretation.

 

[Julius Kingsley]

And yet you say Virginity not what matters to you huh ?

All Joke aside, what I said, is 100% fitting for Alex personality and Character, than her being a Tattooed Rebel Nun.

What you are claiming is perfectly fitting for Annie, and we actually witnessed it .

Alex on the other hand perfectly believable that at some point she slept with 1 or 2 guy , not because she was searching for Prince Charming , but because she had long given up on Prince Charming.

May be that is why Cari did not make a big deal about it.

It makes some sense. But nah, my virgin pussy worshipping cult has a doctrine and I have to follow it.

that's your interpretation.

Glad you could finally join us, Chip. That’s the whole damn point. You're the one who started this needless bicker.. i mean debate.

 

[Finuee]

I wouldn't call it "bicker", everyone's being mostly civil. A debate about a game's characters feels rather on point for a game's thread.

 

[Dorfnutter]

that's your interpretation.

It is what I inferred based on the evidence provided. I could say the same to you, given how you seem to think that Alex's exterior persona is her true self rather than something of a facade or a shell that Orion has to break.

 

[agrdtcwa]

Again, if she did that then that should've been shown in a flashback where, say, she threw off her cross at some point (which would be a strong indicator of her rebelling against her grandma or her "growing up" from her Nana's teachings/memories, the Prince Charming tale included). But at no point did that ever show up, even during an opportune moment (the Ulysses party heart-to-heart).

I dont think this argument makes much sense to me. Her grandmother was there for her and she loved her. That alone is reason enough to keep a memento of her. You dont need to dramatically throw away something that reminds you about a dead family member just because your opinions come to differ over time. Even if she ended up being disillusioned with the idea of finding true love, her grandmother's words were made with good intentions and were filled with love and she was a family member Alex cherished. So I see no reason for her to have that flashback rebelling against her grandma being all dramatic if she naturally came to disagree with an opinion her grandmother had over time as Alex grew older.

As a real life example, my opinions on certain political topics differ from that of my parents. But I still love them - its not an act of rebellion just because our perspectives are slightly different.

 

[agrdtcwa]

I wouldn't call it "bicker", everyone's being mostly civil. A debate about a game's characters feels rather on point for a game's thread.

Yeah the conversation so far has been civil and respectful. It is fun talking about the game with others that appreciate it who have different opinions from you.

If it becomes a shitshow then its time to abandon the thread - no point being hostile with strangers.

 

[Finuee]

Yeah the conversation so far has been civil and respectful. It is fun talking about the game with others that appreciate it who have different opinions from you.

If it becomes a shitshow then its time to abandon the thread - no point being hostile with strangers.

I fully agree. I enjoy discussing stuff with people with different opinions. It broadens my mind.

 

[housekinokuni1974]

this debate around virginity is fascinating haah

 

[Padorublad3]

For the new people here,if somebody didn't know there is the Fan art Thread

 

[ChipLecsap]

It is what I inferred based on the evidence provided. I could say the same to you, given how you seem to think that Alex's exterior persona is her true self rather than something of a facade or a shell that Orion has to break.

That's not what I said, but that the opposite, that Orion is the one who remind her of her old self the little girl who " dreamed " about her prince. The one she long forgotten. and I just played that part to refressh my memory and yeah all that first flashback and all happens right after Orion stand up agenst her father.

so in some extent even the narrative is played out that way, Here is Alex who is more than what you assumed at first, and now she remember that part, because they guy showed up

could he be the one , her prince ?

 

[Dorfnutter]

I dont think this argument makes much sense to me. Her grandmother was there for her and she loved her. That alone is reason enough to keep a memento of her. You dont need to dramatically throw away something that reminds you about a dead family member just because your opinions come to differ over time. Even if she ended up being disillusioned with the idea of finding true love, her grandmother's words were made with good intentions and were filled with love and she was a family member Alex cherished. So I see no reason for her to have that flashback rebelling against her grandma being all dramatic if she naturally came to disagree with an opinion her grandmother had over time as Alex grew older.

As a real life example, my opinions on certain political topics differ from that of my parents. But I still love them - its not an act of rebellion just because our perspectives are slightly different.

It's based on the argument that Cari is pretty anal with his character's traits (as shown with his arguments regarding Nan being in-character despite some people on his Discord arguing that her not panicking was illogical). If her character trait was "full rebel who used to be sweet" rather than "sweet girl who built a tough exterior to hide it," then she would eschew mementos rather than keep then, her personality would be a lot more antagonistic, and her character arc would be her recovering her Nana's memento instead of having it as a keepsake.

But Cari instead chose to have that memento on her, so that has to count as something for her character rather than just something that she wears despite going against the stuff her grandma used to tell her (and on the contrary her literally talking to said memento pretty much implies that her grandma is still important to her rather than a character that used to be important).

 

[ChipLecsap]

I fully agree. I enjoy discussing stuff with people with different opinions. It broadens my mind.

I rarely participate, because eventually people constantly will try to prove their point in beyond to the " yeah there is no real answer so mine is better, because this and this and why you are wrong. "

and it never end. and then Dorfnutter bring some vague Caribdis comment from his discord that neither confirm or deny anything, but he use it to support his view anyway.

and I eventually end up being the Asshole

I remember, that literally said Orion is not dead, and now obviously everyone will claim they know, but there were long post about how Caribdis made sure that we hear his " last breath " blah blah, - and the very first thing he did was to change the ending of episode 7

and it played out how some of us exactly said it will because it was obvious.

It's the same way, obvious Alex's characterization. Hence why it was never even a big deal . Whereas it was a pretty big deal for Annie, and Nova, and Dalia.

It is for sure up for interpretation but in an extend it is a pointless debate, because nothing is confirmed directly. and if Cari would have been forced then, as I said he know his audience. So everyone is a Vrigin.

 

[Finuee]

It's based on the argument that Cari is pretty anal with his character's traits (as shown with his arguments regarding Nan being in-character despite some people on his Discord arguing that her not panicking was illogical). If her character trait was "full rebel who used to be sweet" rather than "sweet girl who built a tough exterior to hide it," then she would eschew mementos rather than keep then, her personality would be a lot more antagonistic, and her character arc would be her recovering her Nana's memento instead of having it as a keepsake.

But Cari instead chose to have that memento on her, so that has to count as something for her character rather than just something that she wears despite going against the stuff her grandma used to tell her (and on the contrary her literally talking to said memento pretty much implies that her grandma is still important to her rather than a character that used to be important).

I think it's a given she's written to be sweet with a tough shell, that's pretty obvious.

 

[Finuee]

I rarely participate, because eventually people constantly will try to prove their point in beyond to the " yeah there is no real answer so mine is better, because this and this and why you are wrong. "

and it never end. and then Dorfnutter bring some vague Caribdis comment from his discord that neither confirm or deny anything, but he use it to support his view anyway.

and I eventually end up being the Asshole

I remember, that literally said Orion is not dead, and now obviously everyone will claim they know, but there were long post about how Caribdis made sure that we hear his " last breath " blah blah, - and the very first thing he did was to change the ending of episode 7

and it played out how some of us exactly said it will because it was obvious.

It's the same way, obviou Alex characternasitation. Hence why it was never even a big deal about it. Whereas it was a pretty big deal for Annie, and Nova, and Dalia.

It is for sure up for interpretation but in an extend it is a pointless debate, because nothing is confirmed directly. and if Cari would have been forced then, as I said he know his audience. So everyone is a Vrigin.

I don't think it's really very important at all, but I personally think she probably wasn't. Also, I just wanted to make a point that there was no need for her to be a virgin to be in line with her personality. I must also confess I don't remember the exact details of the nana flashback at the moment, so maybe I could be proven wrong.

 

[ChipLecsap]

I don't think it's really very important at all, but I personally think she probably wasn't. Also, I just wanted to make a point that there was no need for her to be a virgin to be in line with her personality. I must also confess I don't remember the exact details of the nana flashback at the moment, so maybe I could be proven wrong.

somehow it's seem in an extend , some people want Alex whole persona to be just a fake, faced masquerade. Instead of yeah, this girl went through her shit, and now there is a new light in her life including new friends and love, thanks to the Prince whos her mother long long time ago, when she was a little girl, told about.

No its not cool, everything is Fake, her tattoos are fake, her tight leather pants are not real leather , she is not independent, and she just this pretender fake persona.