I mean, there's no objective criteria for what makes a review good, and if we somehow put it up for a vote then the same people who put out all those bad reviews would also vote. I don't think the review system on this site is intended to gather authoritative reviews or reviews that hold up to professional standards.
Far to many people write bullshit reviews
- Thread starter Diconica
- Start date
- Apr 14, 2020
- 1,822
- 4,050
To summarize your gettysburg address, "my opinion makes all other opinions invalid because my eyes saw something otherwise and I read differently". Pretty arrogant take, homie. NGL.
Sauce: Teaching Feeling
Again... what makes a good review and a bad one? Is a good one in-depth and tells you what you want to know just minus spoilers or is it a bad one like every IGN review where everything except an indy game gets a 9...
Sauce: Ace Academy
Can a highly critical review be a good one? What of one with bias since this game sold me on Crystaline AND Ethereal Enigma on Steam and tbh I fucking HATED what I played of Crystaline... I suppose its up to the person viewing them.....
Sauce: Cloud Meadow
Half of my reviews don't even have a single like but tbh, that's mostly because of how F95 presents reviews. They really are an afterthought... So to see a thread like this, I kinda laugh. I try to be fair and balanced and do good ones based on what I have seen. I try not to be too harsh, but I am aware I am incredibly blunt and can be taken the wrong way... Shit, even Runey approached me about Harem Hotel and asked my opinion... so what can you do? Give people jazz for how they feel? Or maybe take it upon yourself to review games so people can see a deep perspective from your side... The choice is yours. Step up to the plate and put your money where your mouth is, friendo. Dont talk about it, be about it.
Have a nice day.
- Apr 18, 2019
- 182
- 292
A review can't really be objective. When you try to be objective you can maybe analyse the facts and list them and that's it. A review is subjective by nature.
In germany journalistic game-reviews are called "tests" not "reviews". The word test implies objectivity. But those game tests ain't tests, they are reviews. A review is subjective. In english it's called game reviews and that makes a lot more sense, since that is what they are. Not scientific tests, but subjective reviews from a regular person, not a scientist team.
Yeah journalistic reviews shouldn't be purely opinion-based. But even with facts added, it remains subjective. And that's not a problem. The better you explain your arguments the better the reader of your review can comprehend them and the more useful the review is, since the reader then can transfer the points and weight them in their head or ignore those that ain't important to them.
There are only badly written reviews and well-written reviews. And most of us ain't journalists, let alone not all of us speak english as a native language. I wouldn't pay attention to the reviews that much, they are just a bonus, but the description and preview images are a better first indicator what you could expect from a game.
I think my reviews aren't good enough. I try to improve but it's not easy to remember myself to explain it why I think that way and maybe bring some examples.
But that's my opinion. A review is subjective. And if you explain your points and also bring examples, so people can understand and comprehend, then your review is useful for other people who may read it.
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Ever heard the term Peer Review you know when professionals evaluate the work one has done such as scientific studies.
I also worked for the federal government after my time in service we conducted not just test as you call it but reviews on products they were interested in procuring. All of those are done objectively.
I don't know what happened to Germany since I left there in middle school other than what I see when I travel there. But I still have half my family from my mothers side living there. I have duel citizenship. It's funny considering some of them are in government and educational offices and even law enforcement there at they don't say the same thing. It could have to do with the who you associate with. Different clicks or groups of people or even regions have different uses of words to more or less extents.
I don't hold not speaking English against someone. I can usually tell when an author is using English as secondary language. While they may not use everything in word or phrase in the same manor or use the wrong word in place I can usually understand what they say. That isn't the same as blatantly ignoring issue or flat out lying about something.
I try to remain objective when it comes to doing reviews.
I like each of the story types listed below equally. The art work in one of the 1 star ratings is actually better than the other two for the type of image they are trying to produce. While the 4 star game has plot issues they are less caused by writing and more by bad game mechanical tracking of the players corruption and so on. That author didn't also create huge character contradictions like making his character out to be a very intelligent person then having them act entirely as a moron through out the rest of the story. He didn't over use plot pushes, or under explain or over explain stuff. Ever heard the term some times less is more. Well this is a good example of how that can be true. His story writing ability is several times better than the other two's.
Coming of Age I gave 4 stars
Downfall I gave 1 star
Special Request I gave 1 star
I take into account the type of game the author is shooting for be it light-hearted or serious and a lot more factors. Coming of Age is less serious and more casual in its plot. Yet, he did technically a better job than the two authors trying to write more serious games. Both of the 1 star writers have similar issues in they try to over cater to fan service or themselves in trying to throw in to much, they don't keep track of stuff well so that compounds the issue in which they end up with lots of conflicting and plot holes in their stories to a miserable extent. To be clear when I say conflicts I mean where one thing is said and the opposite is shown or done. Example: "Jenny is really smart. She learned to count to 10 by age 20."
Subjective reviews don't really serve much of a purpose. All they do is tell someone you liked it. They don't really let them know if they will like it. They don't tell them what issues they may see in the game, they don't say how good of writer the person is or how well the story is told. Think about it we are individuals because we have individual tastes, needs, wants and desires. So telling someone you liked it doesn't mean they will like it or not.
I guess a good example would be Freddy Got Fingered. I went to the premiere of it. There were a lot of people there writing reviews. By the mid point of the movie that was all that was left in the movie. Everyone else for the most part walked out. By the time the baby got slung around only a handful were left. I went to use the rest room several were in there puking their guts out. Yet, for some reason there are a lot of people who like what I consider one of the worst movies of all time.
We would have terms like, "One man's trash is another man's treasure," if the case. So saying you like or don't like something doesn't mean the next person will feel the same way. So it is entirely pointless. The only people that type of review works for is advertisers who are trying to draw in more people to get more money because those people are too stupid to realize those type of reviews are worthless. If you want to have any potential at all of knowing you will like something you read an objective review.
No, and a bit rude but a fair question.
What I am saying is people have different tastes, needs, wants and desires, levels of reading and understanding and a lot more.
There are also factors like people see what they want to see and ignore what they don't want to see. One person's experience isn't going to be the same as another's.
A good review focuses on the facts and can include personal opinion but those parts should be separated that way the next person who reads the review trying to figure out if they like it have a chance of doing so. Saying you like or don't like something means nothing when it comes to what another person will and will not like. Just remember a review isn't written for your benefit it is written for the person trying to decide if they want to spend time playing that product.
What makes a review good or bad is how well the review conveys the facts about the subject being reviewed that way the person reading it can gain the information they may need to make a determination on the product.
Just because a person has bias doesn't mean it is a bad review only if the bias prevents them from conveying the information truthfully.
I don't understand the last two generations of our society to be honest. They get upset when someone is critical of their work or lets them know when they did something wrong. It's pathetic to be honest. Most of what people learn in their life is from making mistakes and learning to then do it the right way. It's created a society where we blame objects and not people for their actions and all sorts of other crap.Sauce: Cloud Meadow
Half of my reviews don't even have a single like but tbh, that's mostly because of how F95 presents reviews. They really are an afterthought... So to see a thread like this, I kinda laugh. I try to be fair and balanced and do good ones based on what I have seen. I try not to be too harsh, but I am aware I am incredibly blunt and can be taken the wrong way... Shit, even Runey approached me about Harem Hotel and asked my opinion... so what can you do? Give people jazz for how they feel? Or maybe take it upon yourself to review games so people can see a deep perspective from your side... The choice is yours. Step up to the plate and put your money where your mouth is, friendo. Dont talk about it, be about it.
Have a nice day.
Just think were you would be if your parents or teacher never told you when you did something wrong. You are doing a disservice to the person by not telling them. How are they going to learn or recognize that failure if no one ever lets them know? How will they know they need to correct something if no one tells them? You also waste other people's time because they get a false impression on a product that may have flaws that kill any enjoyment for them and that time would better be served playing something else.
Also just because you are critical of something doesn't bar you from providing constructive feedback or pointing out stuff like sometimes they are just going over board or trying to service to main various audience types. It is impossible to please everyone.
That's why there is an example requirement. That way it actually tells you what is wrong with each aspect.
So tell me are you the same as everyone around you. Do you share the exact same tastes and needs, wants and desires. Well if you do reviews where people say they like something should suffice then but if not you want details and examples of what is good or bad about it.
Reviews on this site is basically everything wrong with IGN game reviews, except worse, because it lacks even the basic quality controls like speaking English. Reviews are going to be subjective to an extent no matter what. What is important is to understand any particular reviewer's "voice." What do they value in games? What other games do they like and dislike (well not on this site, but for general game reviewers)? What is their reasoning for some of their opinions? With millions of potential reviewers and a shitload of games, this is a tough feat. Most reviews just fail to convey any of this in a well structured manner. It falls upon to reader to quickly parse through the reviews and form their own opinions.
Maybe you guys have seen that one dude who reviews all his games based on the simpiness of the MC. Like literally every review I've seen from him. That is their "voice" when writing reviews. It might not give you the whole picture, and the whole thing has a slightly misogynistic incel vibe, but I know what the dude values in games and can use that information to get an idea of potential issues that may come up in a playthrough.
It is what it is. Use your damn brain and you will be fine.
- Sep 7, 2017
- 787
- 871
I get what you're saying, but sometimes I'm forced to write 5 star reviews to counter a bad total rating. Often a really good game can get shitvoted by a bunch of impatient chimpanzees who didn't like the "grind" or something, and I feel that a 2/5 rating might push away potential players. I regularly give 4 star games an extra star for this reason. I'm curious how you feel about that?
To the dude that started this topic > I get what you are saying ... it's accurate. But it's pointless.
Let me try and put your mind at ease without the bullshit arguments of some members here that are trying to present something quite idiotic and superficial like those so called adult/porn games, as something very deep and full of meaning.
99% of those creations are not "games" - one can dance around this fact but ... in the end they are simple VN with many choices leading to the same outcome. I'm not gonna bother with the rpgm and real time 3d experiments - they are beyond DUMB.
Being simple VN/Books - it's all about taste. And bad taste mixed with desire to impose opinion and score social points - well ... it's a time tested and proven formula for bullshit.
There is no escaping the right to have a bad taste
Don't even bother reading those reviews ... don't look for plot , mechanics or whatever ... the fact is - very few people actually elevated the subject of erotica and adult pleasures to something better than simple PUMPing fest. They are not here. And you will never find anything of substance around here let alone some kind of objectivity.
Look at what you like as a "Visual" and hope for the "Novel" to be at least - NOT IDIOTIC.
The problem is even the visual part is shitty and based on the same overused assets ... and the novel part is a copy paste from the millions of other copies ... aaaand 99.9% of the vn creators are milkers
If you allow me a simple suggestion - do as I do - give bullshit to the bullshitters. Have fun with them ... it makes them ... angry
Let me try and put your mind at ease without the bullshit arguments of some members here that are trying to present something quite idiotic and superficial like those so called adult/porn games, as something very deep and full of meaning.
99% of those creations are not "games" - one can dance around this fact but ... in the end they are simple VN with many choices leading to the same outcome. I'm not gonna bother with the rpgm and real time 3d experiments - they are beyond DUMB.
Being simple VN/Books - it's all about taste. And bad taste mixed with desire to impose opinion and score social points - well ... it's a time tested and proven formula for bullshit.
There is no escaping the right to have a bad taste
Don't even bother reading those reviews ... don't look for plot , mechanics or whatever ... the fact is - very few people actually elevated the subject of erotica and adult pleasures to something better than simple PUMPing fest. They are not here. And you will never find anything of substance around here let alone some kind of objectivity.
Look at what you like as a "Visual" and hope for the "Novel" to be at least - NOT IDIOTIC.
The problem is even the visual part is shitty and based on the same overused assets ... and the novel part is a copy paste from the millions of other copies
... aaaand 99.9% of the vn creators are milkers If you allow me a simple suggestion - do as I do - give bullshit to the bullshitters. Have fun with them ... it makes them ... angry
- Sep 7, 2017
- 787
- 871
99%? That's a huge exaggeration. Besides all the JRPGs that are regularly translated and posted here, a lot of western games that look like conventional VNs actually have a decent amount of gameplay, for example the game Succulence. Then you have all the trainer games like Four Elements Trainer and Witch Trainer Silver; then you have those cutesy RPGs like Town of Passion and all the games that ripped it off; plus a good amount of other WRPGs like Roundscape Adorevia and Peasant's Quest. I would say realistically speaking VNs only account for around 50% of traffic here.To the dude that started this topic > I get what you are saying ... it's accurate. But it's pointless.
Let me try and put your mind at ease without the bullshit arguments of some members here that are trying to present something quite idiotic and superficial like those so called adult/porn games, as something very deep and full of meaning.
99% of those creations are not "games" - one can dance around this fact but ... in the end they are simple VN with many choices leading to the same outcome. I'm not gonna bother with the rpgm and real time 3d experiments - they are beyond DUMB.
Being simple VN/Books - it's all about taste. And bad taste mixed with desire to impose opinion and score social points - well ... it's a time tested and proven formula for bullshit.
There is no escaping the right to have a bad taste
Don't even bother reading those reviews ... don't look for plot , mechanics or whatever ... the fact is - very few people actually elevated the subject of erotica and adult pleasures to something better than simple PUMPing fest. They are not here. And you will never find anything of substance around here let alone some kind of objectivity.
Look at what you like as a "Visual" and hope for the "Novel" to be at least - NOT IDIOTIC.
The problem is even the visual part is shitty and based on the same overused assets ... and the novel part is a copy paste from the millions of other copies
If you allow me a simple suggestion - do as I do - give bullshit to the bullshitters. Have fun with them ... it makes them ... angry
I get what you are saying but I think you are missing the part of what he is saying.
Take 4 element trainer since you brought it up. What is the end goal? Doesn't really matter what you do you are going to get there either slower or faster is the only thing depending on the actions you take or maybe you can fail to get trained adequately.
Most the games on here are that way. Some are worse they put of false options that just change the next dialog and then force you on the exact same thing. In short you might as well just make the game a slide show instead no need then to click.
Some game on here are so poorly written but have decent enough graphics I just unpack them and go through the graphics.
There are though some games that have real multiple endings such as Glassix. But that isn't most the games on this site.
- Jun 10, 2017
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Ever heard about gamergates ? You know, when professionals gave a totally biased evaluation, because they were deeply linked with the game author or the project. Even when they are wrote by real professionals (so not those guys), reviews are always partly subjective.
As for "peer reviews", despite having "review" in their name, they aren't the same thing than "game/book/movie/whatever review". It's not people giving their own opinion about a publication, but people validating that the process behind the publication is legitimate, and that the content is accurate. And obviously, such thing can't apply to games.
Also, on a side note, ever heard of question marks and comas ?
Why the hell all US guys who face an argumentation they fail to counter, end having be in the army, then working for the federal government ? I don't know if it have the value of an authority argument there, but outside of the USA it generally looks like the opposite.
For someone so attentive to the details, it's a bloody error you made there.
The irony is high, really high... As a manner of speech, I could have said that it's higher than a big manor...
Yet Asia Argento is right, you're pretty arrogant.
You are the only one to see things. You discard any argument not going your way, this without effectively answering to them. And so on. In the end, you aren't discussing about how reviews are wrote, but trying to make people write review like you want them to be.
You are writing this, and yet clearly fail to understand what it imply. Starting by how it will radically change what two persons will have to say about a game.
Liking and disliking are the two most obvious bias. Living in the USA, a country where, more than in any other democracy, the media are for one side or the other, you should be well aware of this if you are as smart as you try to make you look.
It's the kind of bias that led games like, by example, A Wife and Mother, to have a too high score for what it worth. People are hypnotized by the CG, and totally miss the inconstancy of the story. The last review in date starts by, "IMO still representing the most relatable female characters on F95", which is a deep stupidity since the said female characters is able to trade what she think as her dignity against something that should be natural ; like by example when she agree to wear her bikini more often if her son clean his room regularly. Then, less than 10 minutes later she'll freaks out if her dressing gown isn't perfectly tied and show a bit of her legs ; she's wrote as a bipolar schizophrenic who've a mood change every two minutes and change personality each time she breath.
And the opposite is also true. There's games with a good potential that are dragged down by really bad CGs or writing. Players highly disliking this or that, they fail to see what's hide behind it ; in the exact same way that they can't see the default that hide behind what they really like.
While writing this, like every one who started a thread to complain about reviews, you also failed to see the main point ; whatever they are wrote by professionals or, like here, purely amateurs, reviews are and always have been, nothing more than an helper. Their intent isn't to describe the game, else one would be enough, but to give personal opinions that can, possibly, help you make your own decision. And this apply for any kind of review, whatever the product and the author ; they all starts with an implicit, "if you're like me, then let me tell you why this is, or not, for you".
It's not just to their authors to make an effort, it's also to their readers. Both should approach them with a critical mind, trying to stay objective for the author, and knowing that it will anyway be a matter of taste for the reader.
In the end, what you want isn't reliable reviews, but reviews that, personally, you can trust. And it's the third point you totally missed, while still writing what you wrote ; this also is purely a matter of taste, in addition to be a lazy move.
What people expect from a review differ from a person to another. Some want a purely technical approach, while others want a feeling. And obviously there's all those who stand between those two extremes.
So, to conclude, and like for every single thread complaining about reviews, the problem isn't in the review, the problem is in you. You expect people to do the job for you, being totally objective, but this in regard of your own taste and desires, in order for you to not have to approach them with a critical mind.
And, again like every single person who opened a thread complaining about reviews, your argumentation is that you would be able to do better than them, while proving that you are totally unable to have a critical mind that effectively acknowledge differences, can take count of them, and that you accept the idea that you can be wrong. What are the three qualities you expect from people writing reviews.
I think that reviews should be useful in essence, theu can be useful for other users who want to know a little bit about the game before wasting their time or useful for devs to improve their work.
I understand that the topic addresses criticisms that are only praises for something that does not deserve, but there is much of the contrary too, free and useless offenses, some bastards that feels good attacking others with no reason, just because they can.
I agree that it should be imposed a minimum criteria for users that are able to create reviews, numbers of likes that the users already have on regular post can be one. Another action could be to leave all new revisions in a pending state until a moderator evaluates and releases it if it finds it useful.
I understand that the topic addresses criticisms that are only praises for something that does not deserve, but there is much of the contrary too, free and useless offenses, some bastards that feels good attacking others with no reason, just because they can.
I agree that it should be imposed a minimum criteria for users that are able to create reviews, numbers of likes that the users already have on regular post can be one. Another action could be to leave all new revisions in a pending state until a moderator evaluates and releases it if it finds it useful.
- May 12, 2018
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Let's be honest here for a while : most indie games displayed on this site are of low quality, and don't deserve the kind of glowing reviews that some people in this thread call for.
I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I (as a one-man team) probably could not create any better games, because if I'm an experienced programmer, I don't have the time or the proficiency required to create a good game as a writer, a designer and even less as an illustrator/artist. Most talented game authors possessing such a complete spectrum of skills don't show up on this site (or patreon) with their beta v0.001 versions either, but instead sell their finished games on Steam, or work for larger companies.
This being said, I read "reviews" on this site as "user feedback".
I honestly don't care about the stars, and neither should game authors or anyone else, because we can all agree I think that no game deserves to be called perfect, not even AAA titles. One of my teachers used to say something like the following : "a good copy gets 10/10 if it's done by God, 9/10 if it's done by me, and at most 8/10 if it's done by my best student". There is a lot of wisdom in that if one strives for improvement in life (and moderate whatever judgement is brought upon us by others).
So yes, I read such "user feedback" and value it, because reading it, I can quickly get to the point where I understand the motivation behind the feedback. If anything, "reviews" should not be starred, but enforce a minimal number of characters or words (which they currently do to my knowledge) and some kind of pre-formatted layout.
I value this feedback, because if someone reports that the game is bugged, it probably is, and I don't have to waste my time downloading it before it gets fixed. If someone reports that the game sucks because it's all text and doesn't have animations, I will just ignore the feedback (because I don't care about animations in a text game). Etc.
I no longer post reviews here, because I once was censored when reviewing/reporting an obviously bugged game, which also had serious performance issues. At the time, my motivation was to 1/ warn other players about the state of the game 2/ get the author to pay more attention to testing their own game before releasing it. I still think as such it was useful and at least partly "constructive", and I'm happy to observe that the issues I reported have been fixed since.
I still leave (more often than not overwhelmingly positive and I hope constructive) feedback in the discussion area of some games that I played and particularly enjoyed, when I want to encourage game authors to keep up with their efforts, or to provide other like-minded people with the opportunity to enjoy games that I've enjoyed, hoping that they will do the same on their own in the future, so that I could stumble upon "good" games that I'd have somehow missed. However, I'm now wary about leaving "bad" feedback, since I just don't have the time to bicker with mods or game authors if we can't agree on some fundamentals.
My mind is that :
1/ removing (or worse censoring) "reviews" from this site is an insult to the ability of its users to replace this feedback in the context of the screenshots and the tags displayed in the game description, of what the reviewer seems to like and of what the readers themselves enjoy. Attacks ad hominem and breaking forum rules should be punished, but anything else should remain fair game. Authors can learn from negative feedback, and the experienced ones do.
2/ whatever the review is, some people might find it "harsh", "offensive" or whatever, and others like me still will find it useful to weed through all the content that they don't enjoy, to waste less time getting to the games that they actually do like. In that sense, any review is useful, to the site and by extension to everyone that browses it. There are already very few reviews left compared to the people downloading the games, so anything that further discourages players from leaving some feedback should be seen as counter-productive and undesirable.
There are no "bullshit" reviews (as long as they conform to the forum rules, I guess). There is just "feedback", whether we like the substance of it or not.
I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I (as a one-man team) probably could not create any better games, because if I'm an experienced programmer, I don't have the time or the proficiency required to create a good game as a writer, a designer and even less as an illustrator/artist. Most talented game authors possessing such a complete spectrum of skills don't show up on this site (or patreon) with their beta v0.001 versions either, but instead sell their finished games on Steam, or work for larger companies.
This being said, I read "reviews" on this site as "user feedback".
I honestly don't care about the stars, and neither should game authors or anyone else, because we can all agree I think that no game deserves to be called perfect, not even AAA titles. One of my teachers used to say something like the following : "a good copy gets 10/10 if it's done by God, 9/10 if it's done by me, and at most 8/10 if it's done by my best student". There is a lot of wisdom in that if one strives for improvement in life (and moderate whatever judgement is brought upon us by others).
So yes, I read such "user feedback" and value it, because reading it, I can quickly get to the point where I understand the motivation behind the feedback. If anything, "reviews" should not be starred, but enforce a minimal number of characters or words (which they currently do to my knowledge) and some kind of pre-formatted layout.
I value this feedback, because if someone reports that the game is bugged, it probably is, and I don't have to waste my time downloading it before it gets fixed. If someone reports that the game sucks because it's all text and doesn't have animations, I will just ignore the feedback (because I don't care about animations in a text game). Etc.
I no longer post reviews here, because I once was censored when reviewing/reporting an obviously bugged game, which also had serious performance issues. At the time, my motivation was to 1/ warn other players about the state of the game 2/ get the author to pay more attention to testing their own game before releasing it. I still think as such it was useful and at least partly "constructive", and I'm happy to observe that the issues I reported have been fixed since.
I still leave (more often than not overwhelmingly positive and I hope constructive) feedback in the discussion area of some games that I played and particularly enjoyed, when I want to encourage game authors to keep up with their efforts, or to provide other like-minded people with the opportunity to enjoy games that I've enjoyed, hoping that they will do the same on their own in the future, so that I could stumble upon "good" games that I'd have somehow missed. However, I'm now wary about leaving "bad" feedback, since I just don't have the time to bicker with mods or game authors if we can't agree on some fundamentals.
My mind is that :
1/ removing (or worse censoring) "reviews" from this site is an insult to the ability of its users to replace this feedback in the context of the screenshots and the tags displayed in the game description, of what the reviewer seems to like and of what the readers themselves enjoy. Attacks ad hominem and breaking forum rules should be punished, but anything else should remain fair game. Authors can learn from negative feedback, and the experienced ones do.
2/ whatever the review is, some people might find it "harsh", "offensive" or whatever, and others like me still will find it useful to weed through all the content that they don't enjoy, to waste less time getting to the games that they actually do like. In that sense, any review is useful, to the site and by extension to everyone that browses it. There are already very few reviews left compared to the people downloading the games, so anything that further discourages players from leaving some feedback should be seen as counter-productive and undesirable.
There are no "bullshit" reviews (as long as they conform to the forum rules, I guess). There is just "feedback", whether we like the substance of it or not.
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- Apr 18, 2019
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Sorry, I'm not interested in your life story, and it's distracting from the topic at best.
A subjective review can be helpful. If you explain your points, then the reader can comprehend them better. Subjective points that are undergird with examples can be useful. Of course if you just write: "I like the game, because I think it's good" you are very vague and didn't explain anything. Such a review is not helpful at all.
Yeah you can add some facts to make your review less opinion-based. You can analyse technical aspects. Sure. You can do all that. In the end a review is never fully objective. And a fully subjective opinion can be way more useful than an almost objective one, if it's well explained and undergird with examples. So you can comprehend and transfer the points important to you or not.
I guess someone could write a review that is subjective mostly. I like it because it has pictures in it. I like it because...
The point is subjective isn't fact based its opinion and idea based. Meaning their is no base line truth in it.
I'd like to see you write a scientific report that is subjective. Or write a report for a product for a company trying to determine if it will do the job and make it subjective. You would be fired instantly. I know I personally have fired a lot of those idiots.
Subjective isn't worth a shit other than determining a specific individuals view of something.
It's funny even in marketing research when they want to evaluate groups of people and try new products their reports also aren't subjective. Your personal opinions down when you look at their value down the road for the next 1 or 10,000 or 100,000,000 isn't worth a single cent.
If you look down through the comments you will see where I gave an example of what a form might look like for submitting a review and also mentioned reviews having a limited life time depending on the update of the game and so on. The the final score also isn't determined by the person giving the review but by the system determing how many issues exist with in the game by reports. They would have to submit reviews every time the game update to keep the same score. If they wanted to make it look better than another game they would be forever stuck in a loop writing negative reviews for all the competing games. The score wouldn't be built on praise but the lack of negative aspects in the game reported over all by players. Since the scores will change over time as things are fixed or made worse it is a lot more fair and harder to game the system.
The federal government in the US has a huge procurement system in place were products are put into competition with one another. They are generally setup in an bidding system with requirements a product needs to meet then when a group of products after a specific time are put up they run evaluations on them. Products that are less likely to have issues have less testing done. So if you are buying a nuts and bolts depending on their purpose they could have different levels of testing but not as much as fire arms or other tools that people have to rely on. Pretty much everyone who works in the federal government knows the pain in the ass it can be to procure something.
Yep, I'm human and honestly I hate dealing with grammar spelling and shit in the off hours. It's like my brain just shuts that off after I clock out. Sorry.
If you check I don't gig games for that in my reviews. Partially because I don't want to deal with it the other part because English is a second language to so many.
If I discarded it I wouldn't bother taking the time to respond to it. I might consider it right, wrong or partially right. I then post my view point based on what I see or know as factual. I didn't realize I'm not allowed to have a view point and defend it. Sorry, I thought this was an adult discussion were people on both side expressed their thoughts on a topic.
You give a great example of what I am talking about. There is no such thing as a like or dislike that isn't biased.
You are dead on with A wife and Mother. The game has many more issues. Any of the real world options she actually has are almost entirely ignore or given next to the worst excuses I ever read for not using them. I'll stop there or it will be real long.
And again you bring up part of what my point is. Determing if a game is good or bad by the graphics is entirely subjective. It doesn't tell you how well it plays, how many bugs there are, the plot and character issues.... at the end of the day it doesn't tell you if you the person reading that review will like it or not.
You are right reviews are supposed to be helpful. But the way they are currently structured they are an entire waste they don't really help anyone.
That's not what I was suggesting entirely. As you can see by the form I gave an example in a prior comment showing there is room in the last area for a personal opinion of the product(game/VN). However, it doesn't effect the score system.
https://attachments.f95zone.to/2020/11/928190_Review.png
It isn't expecting someone to do a job for me. I write a review because it helps the next person in line determine if they want to spend time on a game or visual novel. I recognize writing a review isn't for my benefit. It's so someone else can not waste time on something they might not like or convey to them details and information they may want to know before playing a game or VN.
If we took that statement you just made to heart then no one should ever write a review and everyone should just play a game to find out if they like it or not. Or that the only purpose of a review is to praise what we vent about what we don't like. IE again serving no one but our own interest.
Given what you wrote in the paragraph regarding A Wife and a Mother I don't believe that is what you actually think. From what you wrote there I would say you primarily agree with my premise. This last paragraph just seems like you railing to try and disagree with me. Because both those paragraphs you wrote conflict with one another.
But you tell me who do you think reviews are to be written for yourself or for the next person considering playing the game?
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And here it goes again, you discard the argument without even effectively answering it ; and you're doing it with an argument that you haven't questioned despite it having been invalidated by most of the answers. I saw your "form", and there's absolutely nothing in it that goes against what I said.
The first point of your form is "character inconstencies and conflicts". It's a purely subjective point that I already addressed in my very first comment on this thread (wrote before you shown your form), when I talked about The DeLuca Family. There's people claiming that some characters aren't correctly wrote, not because it's the case, but because they failed to understand that, those characters not fitting what they expect from mafia capos, is due to the fact that it's a parody. Filling your form, those people would just write the same biased and subjective comments that they are actually writing.
The second point is, "story inconstencies, plot holes". Here again, it's a purely subjective point that I already addressed, still in my very first comment on this thread, when I wrote: "Plus, since the majority of games are still works in progress, it's far to be always easy to claim that there's plot holes or story failures. What seem to be a failure can perfectly become totally realistic one or two updates later, when the missing pieces finally appear."
The same argument apply for the third point, "lazy author moves". But still it's my second comment on this thread that show the more clearly how subjective can be the answer to this point ; when I explained why your comparison between the controls in Star Wars movies and the controls used during the Apollo missions was both irrelevant and made you miss something important.
The fourth point is, "lack of knowledge of the subjects in story". Yet another subjective point since the answer will be gave in regard of the reviewer knowledge, that isn't necessarily better. By example, when I was in 3rd grade, I learned a lot of things regarding ancient Egypt, most of it being now just bullshit because we learned more during the 40 years since then, that we knew at this time. Therefore, I would see any games in that setting as false, not because it is, but because in fact the author know better than me.
Plus, what is exactly a "lack of knowledge" ? Someone like Isaac Asimov can't be accused to lack of scientific knowledge. Yet, and he recognize it himself more than once, he wasn't always rigorous when writing his science-fiction stories, voluntarily omitting part of the reality in order for the story to stay enjoyable. Therefore, when he wrote his novel regarding a time traveling agency working to improve human life quality (I don't remember the name, sorry), he was demonstrating an astounding lack of knowledge since, at this time and still now, scientifically time travel is only possible in one way ; we can travel to the future, but can't go back to the past. But, more important, there's one thing that make time travel purely impossible the way he described it in this story. This thing being that you don't just have to travel in time, but also travel in space, because Earth, the solar system, and also the Milky way, are moving ; therefore you would effectively appear in the future or the past, but also in the middle of an totally empty space. And this isn't a lack of knowledge, around 20 years before writing this story, he wrote a short novel where a scientist died precisely because his method to travel in time didn't take count of Earth movement.
And your form end with the fifth point, "your personal view of the game or visual novel", that don't need to be addressed since it's obviously subjective.
Should be added that at no time you address points that can have an almost fully objective answer, and that are important when you write a review. Like by example the accuracy between the visual part and the story ; there's games where what you see isn't at all what is described. Or how easy are the game mechanisms to use/understand, and how far the game play fit the story. You don't even address the only purely objective point, the presence of bugs.
I absolutely don't care about this. It's totally irrelevant to the subject. It's pure bullshit because this procurement system is sometimes based on biased and totally subjective data. I remember the first Gulf war, when the Pentagon was proudly reporting a success rate over 90% for their missile interception... because a success wasn't based on the destruction of the missile, but on the fact that the MIM-104 Patriot was on the right trajectory and would have destroyed the missile if he wasn't automatically launched too early or too late.
You, who like to talk about scientific peer reviews in a discussion that have nothing to do with them, I'm sure that you understand how high is the bullshit here. Their reports wouldn't pass this said peer review, because the results presented are obviously not what the data say.
Including me...
Oh, but this is an adult discussion. Except that adults don't discard things just because they consider them wrong or partly right. Before doing this, they question their own arguments, because they know that they can be wrong. Would you've done it, that you wouldn't have published your form. Simply because I invalidated two of its five points before you shown it.
Then, when it happen that they are effectively right, they try, at least once, to explain why. Something that you also don't do, just throwing what you feel as authority arguments instead.
So go, explain why your form lead to objective answers to what have been proved to be purely subjective questions.
Yet you still fail to understand what it imply for your form...
Yet over the more than 3 millions members here, and the few thousands who effectively participate to the meta threads, less than a dozen feel the need to complain about reviews.
Scientifically speaking, since you seem to like that, when there's at most 0.01% exceptions, they are called anomalies. Therefore, the problem don't come from the method, nor from the process, but from their own particularities. Said otherwise, it's you who don't use the reviews correctly, not them that don't help.
Obviously none of the two.
Reviews are wrote to give your own point of view regarding the game. A point of view that people will put in perspective with what they know of the game (so other reviews and the game description), in order to decide if this particular game worth a try or not.
And it's why I said that you want others to do the job for you. You expect reviews to be absolute, to decide for you if the game worth it or not. But there's no absolute in reviews. Not only you can't build an opinion based on a single one (even if one can end being decisive), but also this opinion don't regard the effective adequacy, but the potential adequacy between the game and your taste.
Deciding if a game worth it or not is a purely personal process. You are the only one to know the answer, because you are the only one to be you. Still, you expect review to give you this answer...
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