...how long do you typically subscribe to a game? I was a patron of a few games, but once I've reached around 50-60 dollars to a dev I have to stop because I'm not going to pay more for a sex game (which is typically less than 10 hours) than I would for a triple a normal game. I was just curious as to how other people feel.
For people who are patrons...
- Thread starter deluges
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- Sep 28, 2018
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I just wait the game to be completed, then patron the dev for a month at maybe 20-30 dollars if i liked the game. then cancel. I think that is a fair "purchase" price for these games. Patronizing a game every month for potentially years adds up pretty quick so I dont do that, especially if it ends up abandoned in which you just wasted all your money.
- Sep 7, 2018
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I wasn't asking an agree or disagree question, but I was curious about people who support devs for more than would be the price of an actual game. I didn't think it was particularly cloying.
I agree with that. I see a lot of game devs who are getting an insane amount of money while not producing anything really worthy of it. Like you said, some of these games have been in development for years (and don't have all that much to show for it). What you're talking about basically boils down to "tipping", I liked your game, here's some money for it, which is still good.
It depends more on how I choose to contribute.
Some creators have several games completed. So paying a larger lump some at once is more appropriate in my book.
With others it can depend on how much they have done and how fast they are producing more material. If I am unsure they are going to even put something out or see it for a long time it will be rather low as I can. If a month or two go by and I still see no progress I'll drop them.
In short if they want the money they need to show progress and are working for it.
Some creators have several games completed. So paying a larger lump some at once is more appropriate in my book.
With others it can depend on how much they have done and how fast they are producing more material. If I am unsure they are going to even put something out or see it for a long time it will be rather low as I can. If a month or two go by and I still see no progress I'll drop them.
In short if they want the money they need to show progress and are working for it.
So... I guess my perspective is a little different.
The notion that you're buying something is a little skewed because you're really not. You're helping someone financially so that they can create a product. If you see it as buying a product, then maybe you shouldn't look toward incomplete games in the first place, because in terms of Patreon the creator should be in focus, not the product.
For instance, I had a rough couple of months where I struggled really hard to get anything done due to health reasons, I still worked because that's just what I do, but things took way longer than they usually do. During those months you get a little scared that people will stop supporting you just because they're not getting their product, this is a really shitty feeling to get as a creator, it's also a big stress factor for a lot of people, I try to not let it get to me, but sometimes it just does.
I'm not saying you're wrong and that this is always how it is, but it would be nice if people were a little more understanding sometimes.
Sorry for the semi OT post.
The notion that you're buying something is a little skewed because you're really not. You're helping someone financially so that they can create a product. If you see it as buying a product, then maybe you shouldn't look toward incomplete games in the first place, because in terms of Patreon the creator should be in focus, not the product.
For instance, I had a rough couple of months where I struggled really hard to get anything done due to health reasons, I still worked because that's just what I do, but things took way longer than they usually do. During those months you get a little scared that people will stop supporting you just because they're not getting their product, this is a really shitty feeling to get as a creator, it's also a big stress factor for a lot of people, I try to not let it get to me, but sometimes it just does.
I'm not saying you're wrong and that this is always how it is, but it would be nice if people were a little more understanding sometimes.
Sorry for the semi OT post.
I agree with you, it is a bit of apples v. oranges, but what's interesting is that as a subscriber you are paying based on the expectation that you will receive what you want, right? Whereas if I buy a game, I'm buying something that has been completed and I (generally) know what to expect. All of a sudden games get abandoned or go in a different direction based on a (polling) vocal majority and then the thing that you thought you were supporting shifts to something completely different.
As to your concern as a developer, all you really need to do is keep your patrons updated. I've supported devs through periods of hardship and as long as you're keeping people aware of what's going on in your life as well as what's going on with the game, (some) people will continue to support you. A lot of us are aware that shit happens, but when people just go dark and it leaves everyone wondering what the hell is going on, that's when there's a problem.
This should absolutely be how anyone approaches supporting a dev. One of the things I hate about Patreon (and I think, think, it's less about Patreon than it is individual devs) is how you need to pay to see updates. I would subscribe to more developers if I could actually see their development cycles and how well they communicate to their supporters.
I feel like you highlighted the issue yourself.
You expect to get one thing, but then it's suddenly not that thing anymore.
If you pledge because you think the developer is doing a good job as opposed to something more concrete, like a specific sex scene with a character or whatever, it makes it a little different as you don't get that expectation of a specific reward.
There are a lot of games that get cancelled and that sucks, sometimes it's because the developer is unreliable, but sometimes it's because of other reasons. The amount of games and work that get scrapped by big game studios would probably be surprising to a lot of people. The reason you don't hear about it is that because once you announce something then people expect it to be delivered, which is different from how it happens on Patreon.
Although I do get that there a scumbags out there, but not all of us are assholes.
Fair enough, I've been doing weekly updates for I think 78 weeks now so I think I'm in the green on letting people know what I'm doing.
Just thought I'd share my perspective on things.
- Jun 2, 2018
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When I was doing patron stuff I just subscribed to creators that were making stuff I liked. You arent buying a product really more so gaining access to a service that offers some content here and there. If you don't like the quality or the speed of the results you can always withdraw funding at any time. At least thats what I did.
Absolutely, which is why I tried to frame the original post less on my experience and more about what other people view about supporting on Patreon. I'm relatively new to subscribing on Patreon, so it does interest me in how people go about supporting games on there.I feel like you highlighted the issue yourself.
You expect to get one thing, but then it's suddenly not that thing anymore.
If you pledge because you think the developer is doing a good job as opposed to something more concrete, like a specific sex scene with a character or whatever, it makes it a little different as you don't get that expectation of a specific reward.
There are a lot of games that get cancelled and that sucks, sometimes it's because the developer is unreliable, but sometimes it's because of other reasons. The amount of games and work that get scrapped by big game studios would probably be surprising to a lot of people. The reason you don't hear about it is that because once you announce something then people expect it to be delivered, which is different from how it happens on Patreon.
Although I do get that there a scumbags out there, but not all of us are assholes.
Fair enough, I've been doing weekly updates for I think 78 weeks now so I think I'm in the green on letting people know what I'm doing.
Just thought I'd share my perspective on things.
It does seem like a gamble because you get the feeling that some developers don't have a specific endgame in mind and then they mine from the community and things start going sideways. Meanwhile you have someone, like say the A Wife and Mother developer who has a clear goal of what they want to do, but are doing it so slowly that it creates an entirely different (yet familiar) situation. Do you jump ship because it'll take seven years for this game to get to a good place or do you continue to support them because you believe in their vision and their work? Ultimately, it comes down to individuals, but unless you have the disposable income I can't see sinking hundreds of dollars into any game, be it Fortnite or Summertime Saga.
Same, but it just felt like after awhile I had shown my support to games that I really liked and it was time to move on. The reality is that because these aren't triple a studios (with tons of devs working on these games), they are going to (for the most part) take years to make. Some of it due to the fact that this is a passion project, not a job, some of it due to the fact that there are devs who are absolutely milking their game's development. Some times it's hard to know which is which, and that's why I limit myself to a certain amount of money that I'm willing to shell out.
For sure, and that's up to you to decide.
Sounds perfectly rational to me. I don't think you should support any creator if you cannot afford to do so.
My concern was a bit more with the mindset, as I've seen a lot of people who do this and it's a little disconcerting at times.
Some people even assume that I make content to "please my patrons" when I never really give that much thought. I just make what needs to be made in order to complete the game.
If it was about the person and not the product I would be supporting most creators or I would just support the ones I know or the ones I know who aren't shit bags.
So the deciding factor is do I need this or can I make use of it or with games do I want to play it or has it peeked my interest.
But what I'm curious about is how long do you go in it for? 5 bucks a month, sure, I could see doing that shit forever if you're not also supporting other games. Conversely, how long do devs expect patrons to follow them (specifically those in the 10-20+ dollar range)?
There is no right or wrong, it depends entirely on you.
You may decide to never support the dev financially but support them in other ways (by playing, reporting bugs, talking about it, ...) or support them financially for however much/long you want.
At the end, anything that is not ignoring or silence is good, so even if you have pledged for a single month, you have done plenty already; So do not worry too much about what you "should" do or to reach a "right" amount, that's something that you alone should decide.
You may decide to never support the dev financially but support them in other ways (by playing, reporting bugs, talking about it, ...) or support them financially for however much/long you want.
At the end, anything that is not ignoring or silence is good, so even if you have pledged for a single month, you have done plenty already; So do not worry too much about what you "should" do or to reach a "right" amount, that's something that you alone should decide.
- Sep 7, 2018
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Perhaps I should have been more specific. I do not wait always till an complete end of a game, if even a chapter is worth it (like DMD). Therefore, as usual it depends - and I don't have a problem with "late" updates, when they are regularly.
- Aug 22, 2018
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I do the same as Jamden, typically i'll throw some money at a dev who's work I really enjoy, and if I like the dev (that is important), when I see the end in sight.
I know Patreon isn't for buying a finished product but after all the failed early access, kickstarter and Patreon games i've lost money on I refuse to pay for more abandoned games.
There are a few games I enjoy with devs I absolutely can't stand. I don't mean like the Offcuts dev that i've mocked over his delays, sure I don't like how he operates but he's never done anything to genuinely annoy me. I'm not going to start dev bashing though.
Once I see a game is coming to an end i'll throw a chunk of money at them for a couple of months.
My girlfriend is different. She has a few devs she subscribes too constantly but they are long established devs.
I know Patreon isn't for buying a finished product but after all the failed early access, kickstarter and Patreon games i've lost money on I refuse to pay for more abandoned games.
There are a few games I enjoy with devs I absolutely can't stand. I don't mean like the Offcuts dev that i've mocked over his delays, sure I don't like how he operates but he's never done anything to genuinely annoy me. I'm not going to start dev bashing though.
Once I see a game is coming to an end i'll throw a chunk of money at them for a couple of months.
My girlfriend is different. She has a few devs she subscribes too constantly but they are long established devs.
There are more factors than that. How much disposable income does a patron have?
43.1 million people in the US make below the poverty level. Many if not most have families to support.
That's just here in the US. What do you expect the average person in Nigeria can afford to pay? Average income $480 annual.
This seems like a good policy and like it's how most people (on here) seem to operate. Granted, this is a piracy site, so I suppose I shouldn't expect that most people are tied in with Patreon for the long haul.
Yeah, that was kind of my initial point.
Oh, I know this isn't a right or wrong situation and one should only do what they're comfortable or able to.
Also, all of your points were excellent,.
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I disagree with you. In both instances, there's an expectation. You say you generally know what you're getting and albeit this is a case by case basis,but when it comes to games that haven't been around for a long while, you're still buying based on an expectation. Whether it be through a demo, videos online, hype or a review, they all still create an expectation that might have twists and turns that you might not like whether it's through controls, interface or the plot.
As a sub, there is a general idea of what is going on but all the twists and turns will be unfolding in front of you as long as the dev is open about it and releases updated versions periodically. Depending on the dev and how much you pay, you end up being part of a team who gets to voice their opinion in the development and so those expectations are seen based on everyone's input and the dev's final decision. There is certainly a lot more control and transparency with one than the other.
tl;dr The expectation is the same between developed and unfinished games but the difference is that you have an open/transparent connection to the dev in how you and the rest of the community wish to *influence the dev.
*influence = The word control that I used earlier would be wrong since ultimately it's the dev's game and it's a team effort in supporting the dev. To have one person think they control the dev because they paid like everyone else would be wrong. As Fasder said, you're supporting the dev in their vision, not the product. The whole "I'm paying so treat me like a king" is problematic when it comes to free lance or any service that deals with the public.