For people who are patrons...

[DreamBig Games]

Every patreon is fine doesn't matter if pledging 1 or 20. Best patreons is the ones who communicate with dev.

Yep, communication sometimes is just as important as financial aid. People talking to you about how you can improve the game is the best thing ever. But please, don't try to push the dev into implementing your fantasies ( for some people the best game is the one that contains all their fantasies, regardless of the shity UI, audio, grammar and so on), help them improve on the UI, text, story gaps, etc.

 

[deluges]

Always is better 1000 patreons pledging 1usd than 50 pledging 20Usd. If 20 decide to leave you will lost 20 usd and you can still continue, make pay to programer and other. If you lost half of month pledge, continuing is ehm... discutable. Every dev who really want's to make something from start investing big amount of time and money to computer and time to making enough content in time.

Every patreon is fine doesn't matter if pledging 1 or 20. Best patreons is the ones who communicate with dev.

Perfectly said. Communication is absolutely key. You also brought up a great point about losing 20 dollar patrons. That makes a ton of sense, which is why it's even more confusing as to why this isn't an option for every dev.

 

[deluges]

Yep, communication sometimes is just as important as financial aid. People talking to you about how you can improve the game is the best thing ever. But please, don't try to push the dev into implementing your fantasies ( for some people the best game is the one that contains all their fantasies, regardless of the shity UI, audio, grammar and so on), help them improve on the UI, text, story gaps, etc.

Yeah, but that's the slippery-slope issue. I was a 20 dollar patron to A Wife and A Mother and a vocal majority of his patrons influenced him out of a specific story-line. This is a dev who already takes nearly 3 months per update, and he had to scrap something pre-planned and tweak his roadmap based on this. That reaction boils down to fear of losing money. The fear was so significant that he changed his vision for his game, which seems ridiculous to me. There's a lot of games that have had questionable moments, but maybe it's just me, but you just roll with it. Ignore the shit you don't really care for, fap to the shit you do. When people are altering their visions based on other people's opinions... that just feels like all you give a fuck about is the money. Again, that's not to say that devs are flawless, but if you've already gotten me on board with what you've done, and as long as you're sticking to that philosophy for the most part... and not turning something like a cheating game into a cuckolding / swinging game, I'm going to support you.

 

[Joraell]

Yeah, but that's the slippery-slope issue. I was a 20 dollar patron to A Wife and A Mother and a vocal majority of his patrons influenced him out of a specific story-line. This is a dev who already takes nearly 3 months per update, and he had to scrap something pre-planned and tweak his roadmap based on this. That reaction boils down to fear of losing money. The fear was so significant that he changed his vision for his game, which seems ridiculous to me. There's a lot of games that have had questionable moments, but maybe it's just me, but you just roll with it. Ignore the shit you don't really care for, fap to the shit you do. When people are altering their visions based on other people's opinions... that just feels like all you give a fuck about is the money. Again, that's not to say that devs are flawless, but if you've already gotten me on board with what you've done, and as long as you're sticking to that philosophy for the most part... and not turning something like a cheating game into a cuckolding / swinging game, I'm going to support you.

Never let Patreons changing main storyline if you dont making freeroaming simulator Let patreons vote in polls aboutsmall things. Like what toys will main female character use or maybe with what character will go to cinema, but never things changing storyline.

 

[deluges]

Never let Patreons changing main storyline if you dont making freeroaming simulator Let patreons vote in polls aboutsmall things. Like what toys will main female character use or maybe with what character will go to cinema, but never things changing storyline.

That's the funny thing is that his polls are always innocuous shit like how should this character have her hair be or what dress should they wear for this event, which is why that whole ordeal was so disheartening.

 

[DreamBig Games]

Yeah, but that's the slippery-slope issue. I was a 20 dollar patron to A Wife and A Mother and a vocal majority of his patrons influenced him out of a specific story-line. This is a dev who already takes nearly 3 months per update, and he had to scrap something pre-planned and tweak his roadmap based on this. That reaction boils down to fear of losing money. The fear was so significant that he changed his vision for his game, which seems ridiculous to me. There's a lot of games that have had questionable moments, but maybe it's just me, but you just roll with it. Ignore the shit you don't really care for, fap to the shit you do. When people are altering their visions based on other people's opinions... that just feels like all you give a fuck about is the money. Again, that's not to say that devs are flawless, but if you've already gotten me on board with what you've done, and as long as you're sticking to that philosophy for the most part... and not turning something like a cheating game into a cuckolding / swinging game, I'm going to support you.

I don't think its always about money.
In my case, money is important ( I have quit my job 8months ago and since then game dev is my full-time job, and it has to work well, pay the bills and shit.) but, more important is that feeling that you are making something that others enjoy. I don't know how to explain it, but, the most important, treasured feeling I had in the past 2 years of my life was when I have launched Cyndy on Steam and in 2 days I had over 1000 sold units and a couple of reviews and comments about the game.
For some reason, I felt great, I felt appreciated ( unlike my old job, driving buses around London ) )and I knew that is what I really want to do from then on.
Maybe that is important for the dev of "A wife and a mother", not just the money. If he felt that the majority of those who actually communicate with him might be right about the way the game was going, I can understand why he decided to follow their idea.

 

[deluges]

I don't think its always about money.
In my case, money is important ( I have quit my job 8months ago and since then game dev is my full-time job, and it has to work well, pay the bills and shit.) but, more important is that feeling that you are making something that others enjoy. I don't know how to explain it, but, the most important, treasured feeling I had in the past 2 years of my life was when I have launched Cyndy on Steam and in 2 days I had over 1000 sold units and a couple of reviews and comments about the game.
For some reason, I felt great, I felt appreciated ( unlike my old job, driving buses around London ) )and I knew that is what I really want to do from then on.
Maybe that is important for the dev of "A wife and a mother", not just the money. If he felt that the majority of those who actually communicate with him might be right about the way the game was going, I can understand why he decided to follow their idea.

I think you're being a bit generous, but I won't argue. I know as a creator of any kind of content negative criticism is a lot to take in, especially when you think you're putting out something really good and you're proud of it.

 

[baka]

for my team, what is important is that we get enough money each month so our artist can work 100% on our projects.
right now he gives us around 1 day/week and that means 2-3 months to complete the cg/events for the project we have right now. for future projects when he also need to draw backgrounds and ui, we need to have him 100% otherwise we will never get anywhere.
so right now me and the writer gets nothing. I spent 2 years on the engine. but im fine with that since i enjoy it. and i spent the last 10 years creating tools and cracking mnf games. for free.
i have a full time job and i need to prioritize what to do in my free time.
so right now with patron i hope i can create a good team and that we can spend more time doing what we like, but for that we need support. if we dont get anything, we will still be around but the speed of production will be slower.

so patrons are not buyer of a product, but more of a life-support for the devs.

 

[deluges]

for my team, what is important is that we get enough money each month so our artist can work 100% on our projects.
right now he gives us around 1 day/week and that means 2-3 months to complete the cg/events for the project we have right now. for future projects when he also need to draw backgrounds and ui, we need to have him 100% otherwise we will never get anywhere.
so right now me and the writer gets nothing. I spent 2 years on the engine. but im fine with that since i enjoy it. and i spent the last 10 years creating tools and cracking mnf games. for free.
i have a full time job and i need to prioritize what to do in my free time.
so right now with patron i hope i can create a good team and that we can spend more time doing what we like, but for that we need support. if we dont get anything, we will still be around but the speed of production will be slower.

so patrons are not buyer of a product, but more of a life-support for the devs.

Which is understandable, but considering the amount of devs (and modder) who have chimed in on this thread (which is greatly appreciated), none of you have really said what you hope to get out of every patron. Joraell at least said that they appreciate 1 dollar subs, but my entire point with this thread was wondering at what point do people feel their donations and financial obligations to a game are up. As a dev it should be pretty easy to respond with an amount that one would hope they would receive. Unless you're donating one or two dollars a month, it is fiscally ridiculous to support games throughout their development cycle. The games that I'm actually interested in are looking at 2-3 year dev cycles. That is.... a fuck ton of commitment especially when you consider that any dev can throw their hands up and say I'm done with this game. Look at Good Girl Gone Bad. Amazing game... for like half of its cycle, then Eva decided she wanted to move on from the game and on to other things and has been working on the game more to fulfill an obligation (which, isn't necessarily a bad thing) rather than to tell a great story. It's a bummer, but I think as a subscriber... man, you can't trust anyone. You can appreciate what you've been given and support when you can, but being expected to follow blindly for an extended period of time, just doesn't make that much sense to me.

 

[baka]

as a patron you are a part of the team. you want the team to success. to be able to work fast and learn and getting better.
the "carrot" for most dev's are to be able to spend 100% time on their projects.

as a team-member, you need to decide how much invested you are.
the core members of the team (the devs) are spending time making the game.
time=money. we could discuss about "money", but I think you know all about that, taxes, income, pension. etc.

as a patron you are not buying a product, you are the "employer".
you give the devs money so they can keep working on the project.

sure, initially many devs are spending their "free" time. you would think, they can keep doing that.
but not all people have enough energy and motivation to work for free. not when the game is starting to get heavy.
its easy to make something small. a demo. but a full-project, means many hours working. and no time to rest.

its quite simple. if you want something to survive. you help.
if a team of 3 are getting 100$ releasing each month, spending 100h each/month. you know they are not getting enough.

so I would not think about "how much should I give", but more "are the team getting enough"
sure, you will think, my precious money, I dont want to give too much.

but are you the one spending hours every day making a game?
we are not robots, we need to rest, we need a life, and we need some kind of "carrot" to keep going.

so, should you give 1$ or 30$? should you give it 1 time or for 5 months? or should you keep giving as long the team is making games you enjoy? its up to you. but in the end of the day, without you, and all other patrons, we would not see that many games.

 

[macadam]

I think you're being a bit generous, but I won't argue. I know as a creator of any kind of content negative criticism is a lot to take in, especially when you think you're putting out something really good and you're proud of it.

LMAO...

all devs must be like this. look at me ?
seriously, if you cant take criticism... then dont waste your time as a dev. they will always be negative peoples, cant please everybody.
as long the dev enjoy what he is doing, its all fine.

that's also a big thing that actually (and sometime very quickly) make the difference between a passionate dev and a "quick money" asshole.
dev who expect lots of money fast wont live long for sure, even if they put the best game ever, at one moment, they will become bored and will simply abandon or switch to something else. And patrons doesnt llike this... AT ALL. because they pay for hope to see the project completed.

 

[Joraell]

LMAO...

all devs must be like this. look at me ?
seriously, if you cant take criticism... then dont waste your time as a dev. they will always be negative peoples, cant please everybody.
as long the dev enjoy what he is doing, its all fine.

that's also a big thing that actually (and sometime very quickly) make the difference between a passionate dev and a "quick money" asshole.
dev who expect lots of money fast wont live long for sure, even if they put the best game ever, at one moment, they will become bored and will simply abandon or switch to something else. And patrons doesnt llike this... AT ALL. because they pay for hope to see the project completed.

Rly?

You must be registered to see the links

Almost one year of doying nothing And still was have around 600/ month

Not all patreons reacting, fast enough.

 

[deluges]

as a patron you are a part of the team. you want the team to success. to be able to work fast and learn and getting better.
the "carrot" for most dev's are to be able to spend 100% time on their projects.

as a team-member, you need to decide how much invested you are.
the core members of the team (the devs) are spending time making the game.
time=money. we could discuss about "money", but I think you know all about that, taxes, income, pension. etc.

as a patron you are not buying a product, you are the "employer".
you give the devs money so they can keep working on the project.

sure, initially many devs are spending their "free" time. you would think, they can keep doing that.
but not all people have enough energy and motivation to work for free. not when the game is starting to get heavy.
its easy to make something small. a demo. but a full-project, means many hours working. and no time to rest.

its quite simple. if you want something to survive. you help.
if a team of 3 are getting 100$ releasing each month, spending 100h each/month. you know they are not getting enough.

so I would not think about "how much should I give", but more "are the team getting enough"
sure, you will think, my precious money, I dont want to give too much.

but are you the one spending hours every day making a game?
we are not robots, we need to rest, we need a life, and we need some kind of "carrot" to keep going.

so, should you give 1$ or 30$? should you give it 1 time or for 5 months? or should you keep giving as long the team is making games you enjoy? its up to you. but in the end of the day, without you, and all other patrons, we would not see that many games.

Your last statement is obvious, we all know that it takes financial support to keep these endeavors in existence, otherwise they wouldn't be on Patreon. I'm pretty sure I mentioned it elsewhere, but my takeaway from a lot of these comments is "give what you can", which again, seems like an obvious statement. Honestly, I was looking for something more concrete, and I assumed that as people who are making money off of Patreon, you'd be uniquely qualified to offer more perspective since for some of the devs on here, Patreon is essentially their livelihood. Maybe I'm trying to quantify the quantifiable.

 

[deluges]

LMAO...

all devs must be like this. look at me ?
seriously, if you cant take criticism... then dont waste your time as a dev. they will always be negative peoples, cant please everybody.
as long the dev enjoy what he is doing, its all fine.

that's also a big thing that actually (and sometime very quickly) make the difference between a passionate dev and a "quick money" asshole.
dev who expect lots of money fast wont live long for sure, even if they put the best game ever, at one moment, they will become bored and will simply abandon or switch to something else. And patrons doesnt llike this... AT ALL. because they pay for hope to see the project completed.

I'm specifically talking about a specific dev who used to respond to people on his game's thread, but peaced the fuck out because of criticism. Who also changed their game because of patron criticism, so I'm not seeing the LMAO in what I said. There are plenty of people who create content, who do not engage their audience, because they either don't want to deal with the criticism or can't handle. Just because you have thick skin that doesn't mean that everyone else is the same way and I can't believe I have to explain that to another human being.

 

[Winterfire]

Your last statement is obvious, we all know that it takes financial support to keep these endeavors in existence, otherwise they wouldn't be on Patreon. I'm pretty sure I mentioned it elsewhere, but my takeaway from a lot of these comments is "give what you can", which again, seems like an obvious statement. Honestly, I was looking for something more concrete, and I assumed that as people who are making money off of Patreon, you'd be uniquely qualified to offer more perspective since for some of the devs on here, Patreon is essentially their livelihood. Maybe I'm trying to quantify the quantifiable.

I am sorry, I did not read all the other replies, so I am not totally sure what I am answering to.

Anyways, the point is that it is in fact not a concrete thing.
I do not even agree on the whole "Patreon livelihood" thing but that's another topic, in my opinion services such as patreon are exactly that... "Give what you can, if you want to support it".

 

[deluges]

Rly?

You must be registered to see the links

Almost one year of doying nothing And still was have around 600/ month

Not all patreons reacting, fast enough.

That goes into what I was saying about not noticing a small amount, like a dollar, missing from you bank account, you kind of just forget about it and what you've just linked to is that result of that.

 

[deluges]

I am sorry, I did not read all the other replies, so I am not totally sure what I am answering to.

Anyways, the point is that it is in fact not a concrete thing.
I do not even agree on the whole "Patreon livelihood" thing but that's another topic, in my opinion services such as patreon are exactly that... "Give what you can, if you want to support it".

Which I totally get, and I wasn't trying to condemn those who gave that response, but, meh, I already said it in what you quoted.

I only mention the livelihood thing because it's been explicitly stated by some developers. Anyone can lie, sure, but I tend to believe until I have a reason not to.

 

[Winterfire]

Which I totally get, and I wasn't trying to condemn those who gave that response, but, meh, I already said it in what you quoted.

I only mention the livelihood thing because it's been explicitly stated by some developers. Anyone can lie, sure, but I tend to believe until I have a reason not to.

I am sure there are people that do, no lies.
In a way, that's even more fair to the patreons, it is just that if you live in a country where job hunting takes time and effort, trusting your life to patreon is a bit... Well, living on the edge imho I do not want that type of excitement in my life.

I didn't quote you because I thought you were condemning them, not at all, I just wanted to point out that, at least in my opinion, there is not much more than that.

 

[baka]

for "money" here's our artist

You must be registered to see the links

he is spending full time making commissions, so its his livelihood.

what our team need, "at least" is to be able to cover that, that means he can pause his commissions and spend 100%.
more concrete than that i dont know.

as for me and the writer. we have other full time jobs and im not sure patrons will ever cover that.
and right now we dont expect anything.

Impure is an asshole. a bastard that took patrons for granted and ruin the reputation. devs like that should just fuck off.

 

[deluges]

for "money" here's our artist

You must be registered to see the links

he is spending full time making commissions, so its his livelihood.

what our team need, "at least" is to be able to cover that, that means he can pause his commissions and spend 100%.
more concrete than that i dont know.

as for me and the writer. we have other full time jobs and im not sure patrons will ever cover that.
and right now we dont expect anything.

Impure is an asshole. a bastard that took patrons for granted and ruin the reputation. devs like that should just fuck off.

I'm honestly amazed that he can do that instead of working since 2 3/4 full body pieces is about minimum wage for an 8 hour work day, depending on the state. I'd say that I can't imagine that something like that would be so lucrative, but then I realized what website I'm posting on, so, yeah, good for him.