For people who are patrons...

[macadam]

I've seen too many promising games get abandoned for one reason or another so it's hard to get behind a pay as we go kind of system. Too many variables.

people today consider everything as "potential/promising". Maybe it's time for them tostart think and not instantly react as "promising" at the very first launch of a 0.00001 alpha versin of 3 minutes gameplay.

that may would fix some troubles.


i personnaly dont know that much game that reached like 2-4 hours of gameplay before being abandonned...

 

[Joshua Tree]

people today consider everything as "potential/promising". Maybe it's time for them tostart think and not instantly react as "promising" at the very first launch of a 0.00001 alpha versin of 3 minutes gameplay.

that may would fix some troubles.


i personnaly dont know that much game that reached like 2-4 hours of gameplay before being abandonned...

I don't think a creator should expect much support at all from a 3 minute introduction though. It's not enough for someone to get enthralled with. A proper introduction with a cliff hanger that leave the player/reader wanting more is the way to do it imho. It would require more work upfront before you get any potential support back, it's a two way street.

 

[tanstaafl]

I've seen too many promising games get abandoned for one reason or another so it's hard to get behind a pay as we go kind of system. Too many variables.

If a game gets abandoned it gets a bit of leeway then it gets canceled. For instance, I'm supporting CarbonBlue and Unleashed right now. It has until the end of the month, then I cancel that. If after that another release comes, and I like the release, I'll readd my support.

 

[baka]

I see this as a hobby. I cant see this as my main income.
many devs seems to think this is a career choice, I put together something and expect to get money. - If not, I abandon my project.

its hard work, and you need to be lucky, to be in the right moment when people are looking for something that you are doing.
that for me is the key of success. but in the same time, if you are only thinking of what people want, it will be a project that in the end is all about money, not creativity.

the problem is when devs do what people want and patrons think they are in charge of the content.
that will result in a community commission. not donating/supporting a team/dev for their/his idea/project.

if you look at my project, its based on my idea, of something I wanted to do, but its not something people seems to care.
they are not used to that kind of game and expect something else. even so Im still working on it, after 3 years and thousands of hours coding and working and getting absolutely nothing.

its easy to think, you are nuts, why keep working if you get nothing? because its a hobby, something I enjoy doing and if someone like it and want to donate, Im glad, that helps pay the commissions to speed up the xxx content.

 

[tanstaafl]

I see this as a hobby. I cant see this as my main income.
many devs seems to think this is a career choice, I put together something and expect to get money. - If not, I abandon my project.

There are several factors to this. Some people make games as a hobby. Some because they want to put a story that's in their head out there. Some people want to make money, etc. For those who want to make money, Patreon should not be their main focus, but a finished product that is good enough to make some headway on a platform like Steam.

I'm starting a game myself (just like everyone else, lol). My motivation isn't money. I have a job for that. My motivation is that there is a particular kind of game I want to see and there are very, very few games that fit the bill. Also, I think I have a good story to tell (just like everyone else, lol).

 

[recreation]

I don't think a creator should expect much support at all from a 3 minute introduction though. It's not enough for someone to get enthralled with. A proper introduction with a cliff hanger that leave the player/reader wanting more is the way to do it imho. It would require more work upfront before you get any potential support back, it's a two way street.

A creators in this err... genre? ...shouldn't expect any income at all, that's the wrong mindset imo. Most of the devs who start thinking like "I'ma maek a game and get rich boy" fail immediately and a lot of other devs have way too high expactations.
The few devs that make more than $300 after a 3-4 months are very few lucky exceptions, even with good games and propper introduction. Most devs don't even reach a $100 after months.

 

[Joshua Tree]

A creators in this err... genre? ...shouldn't expect any income at all, that's the wrong mindset imo. Most of the devs who start thinking like "I'ma maek a game and get rich boy" fail immediately and a lot of other devs have way too high expactations.
The few devs that make more than $300 after a 3-4 months are very few lucky exceptions, even with good games and propper introduction. Most devs don't even reach a $100 after months.

Oh I agree with you at some extent. It need to be a work of passion sort of. But it's okay to make money of your hobby/passion, but only do it for the purpose of money become wrong. When you see people like DarkCookie, and what they pull. I guess that motivate people to start projects, but it isn't necessary enough motivation to see it through when the gains is not there. It's not like it's a huge untapped market with people sitting there with wallets wide open to inject a straw into. So when bring something to the table and expect return it need to hold value that put it apart from "yet another fap fap game"...

Not everyone can become a streamer like Ninja, youtuber like PewDiePie, or adult game creator like DarkCookie. But shouldn't keep people from trying, just the motivation need to be the right one.

 

[recreation]

Oh I agree with you at some extent. It need to be a work of passion sort of. But it's okay to make money of your hobby/passion, but only do it for the purpose of money become wrong. When you see people like DarkCookie, and what they pull. I guess that motivate people to start projects, but it isn't necessary enough motivation to see it through when the gains is not there. It's not like it's a huge untapped market with people sitting there with wallets wide open to inject a straw into. So when bring something to the table and expect return it need to hold value that put it apart from "yet another fap fap game"...

Not everyone can become a streamer like Ninja, youtuber like PewDiePie, or adult game creator like DarkCookie. But shouldn't keep people from trying, just the motivation need to be the right one.

Exactly, but motivations isn't the problem in most cases, it's the expectations.
If I had expected any income when I started working on my game I'm not sure I'd have kept on going, the amount of work and time you have to put into such a project is worth much much more than the money you get in the first few months or even years depending on how successfull you are.
I know a lot of people see the amount DarkCookie for example makes and think "wow that guy make so much money with something so simple" when in reality it's not simple, a shitload of work and the amount of money only comes over a long period of time in most the cases.

 

[Droid Productions]

I honestly think that a 1$ tier should be mandatory in patreon and people shouldn't be able to start directly at 5 or more.

Patreon explicitly warns you against doing it, and will put a big "this is a bad idea" sign on it:



I think there's likely a couple of different reasons for that; one of which is that processing tons of $1 payments is a pain for Patreon with CC fees. They also charge a much larger up-front processing fee for it:




So. It's a pain in the ass. I've still got a $1 tier for LoM, but Patreon is increasingly pushing that plan away.

 

[recreation]

Patreon explicitly warns you against doing it, and will put a big "this is a bad idea" sign on it:
View attachment 821531


I think there's likely a couple of different reasons for that; one of which is that processing tons of $1 payments is a pain for Patreon with CC fees. They also charge a much larger up-front processing fee for it:

View attachment 821533


So. It's a pain in the ass. I've still got a $1 tier for LoM, but Patreon is increasingly pushing that plan away.

Same on SS, but they even make a difference between $1 and $2 tiers, $1 has almost 50% fee...

 

[macadam]

Patreon explicitly warns you against doing it, and will put a big "this is a bad idea" sign on it:
View attachment 821531


I think there's likely a couple of different reasons for that; one of which is that processing tons of $1 payments is a pain for Patreon with CC fees. They also charge a much larger up-front processing fee for it:

View attachment 821533


So. It's a pain in the ass. I've still got a $1 tier for LoM, but Patreon is increasingly pushing that plan away.

I know.
Patreon send me a message telling me that i should raise up to 5 or 10$ minimum tier.

As the "standard" tier is between 5 and 10$.

Except that their stupid "standard" bullshit is based on the whole patreon. Including people with 2 patrons as same as people with 30 000 patrons.
Soo, yeah, it's nice to create a standard.

except that the standard can not apply with different things/work and huge difference of patrons. It's like saying that the standard speed of all cars in the world is 200km/h, so you should create a shitty yogurt's pot car with an engine that allow the car to reach 200km/h.
The fees on patrons will correspond to the gasoline price you spent on such car.


to be honest, starting a patreon and directly going up to 10$ or more is a no go to me instantly. that's way too much to begin with.
5$ is also barely limit at beginning.
i know there is work and all, but still. maybe not for everybody, but for me 5$ is alots, i would prefer spend it by buying directly a game in sale on steam or else XD, instead of an product tht juststart and no idea if it will survive a year.
It's a risk to take. But i m not the one to take such risk.

 

[deluges]

the problem is when devs do what people want and patrons think they are in charge of the content.
that will result in a community commission. not donating/supporting a team/dev for their/his idea/project.

So much this. That's another one of those variables that I mentioned: when the patreons start dictating the project. I wish more devs had their own story and ideas mapped out, and also had strong convictions, instead of letting a vocal minority lead projects into different directions. It's disheartening when you started donating because it was one thing, that you actually liked, and now it's transformed into something wholly different.

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

This thread is pretty cringe with all the shitting on devs who dare to want to make money with their project. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of talentless people out there trying to grab some quick cash by shitting out some uninspired incest clone, but I see nothing wrong with trying to get paid if you have a decent idea and at least some skill, be it writing or rendering. For every mediocre game that gets thousands on Patreon there are dozens of quality games that barely make a dime.

Obviously not everybody can make their passion into a real job (if they even have passion) but I hate this attitude of "Haha, you shouldn't even try, you retard, also where is my content for the 5 bucks I paid you?" Like, fuck you.

 

[alt_advancement]

This thread is pretty cringe with all the shitting on devs who dare to want to make money with their project. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of talentless people out there trying to grab some quick cash by shitting out some uninspired incest clone, but I see nothing wrong with trying to get paid if you have a decent idea and at least some skill, be it writing or rendering. For every mediocre game that gets thousands on Patreon there are dozens of quality games that barely make a dime.

Obviously not everybody can make their passion into a real job (if they even have passion) but I hate this attitude of "Haha, you shouldn't even try, you retard, also where is my content for the 5 bucks I paid you?" Like, fuck you.

I mean, if you let $5 ride over 6 months, that's $30 which is what you can get a triple A title for after it has been out for a few months. I understand your point completely for a 1 month patreon but I'm betting a lot of these people sub over a pretty decent length of time and have contributed more money to 1 adult game than what a triple A title would cost (I know I have)

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

I mean, if you let $5 ride over 6 months, that's $30 which is what you can get a triple A title for after it has been out for a few months. I understand your point completely for a 1 month patreon but I'm betting a lot of these people sub over a pretty decent length of time and have contributed more money to 1 adult game than what a triple A title would cost (I know I have)

What is wrong with that though? Why are you concerned about how other people choose to spend their money? And the whole AAA comparison is just stupid. Yes, you can buy a sick game for $60, a game that hundreds or thousands of people worked on and millions of dollars were sunk into. Is it really surprising that some random adult game dev can't deliver the same value for the money?

Also show me the AAA quality $60 porn game we should be comparing this to. Oh, there are no AAA porn games? Oh.

 

[Joshua Tree]

This thread is pretty cringe with all the shitting on devs who dare to want to make money with their project. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of talentless people out there trying to grab some quick cash by shitting out some uninspired incest clone, but I see nothing wrong with trying to get paid if you have a decent idea and at least some skill, be it writing or rendering. For every mediocre game that gets thousands on Patreon there are dozens of quality games that barely make a dime.

Obviously not everybody can make their passion into a real job (if they even have passion) but I hate this attitude of "Haha, you shouldn't even try, you retard, also where is my content for the 5 bucks I paid you?" Like, fuck you.

It's a two way street. If you want people to support you, you need to show people its worth it as well. If you compare with like "early access" games on steam. They had quite a lot of work invested into them before they got put into early access and chance of earn something for the work and effort. Not all of these get completed and come into fruition either though. But I would be more compelled to support a creator that release a good intro, a first impression if you want. Than someone who throw out 3 minute short and then expect people to throw a five buck sub to support them if they want to see more.

 

[Joshua Tree]

So much this. That's another one of those variables that I mentioned: when the patreons start dictating the project. I wish more devs had their own story and ideas mapped out, and also had strong convictions, instead of letting a vocal minority lead projects into different directions. It's disheartening when you started donating because it was one thing, that you actually liked, and now it's transformed into something wholly different.

Suppose it's called lack of artistic integrity. I found myself in that boat before where I started support a game, but it turned sour and I voted with my money and pulled the pledge. It's that easy really. I prefer creators that have the story mapped out from the get go. So you won't get all this "make it up as we go"...

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

It's a two way street. If you want people to support you, you need to show people its worth it as well. If you compare with like "early access" games on steam. They had quite a lot of work invested into them before they got put into early access and chance of earn something for the work and effort. Not all of these get completed and come into fruition either though. But I would be more compelled to support a creator that release a good intro, a first impression if you want. Than someone who throw out 3 minute short and then expect people to throw a five buck sub to support them if they want to see more.

Sure, you have to make a good impression, your 0.1 should bang. That's why I'm a fan of the episodic structure for adult games. It's obviously just a roughly defined measurement, but usually, it means a lot more content per update.

Like, if you give me a whole "episode" that feels satisfying to play through as opposed to barely setting up the characters and getting into one situation and then it's over, I'm way more likely to get invested in the game and be like "yeah, bring on episode 2" instead of "I guess I'll check back on patch 0.015c and see what's new then."

But that's where the monetization comes in again. People get jumpy when they're paying for a game that takes months to update, so devs rather shit out little patches on a regular basis. Which is way less satisfying for players. Or at least for me. I'm too lazy to reinstall your game for 2 new scenes and some bugfixes until it's literally the best game I ever played. So I skip out on games for months while wishing they would just do episodes, so I knew when it was worth jumping back in.

 

[alt_advancement]

What is wrong with that though? Why are you concerned about how other people choose to spend their money? And the whole AAA comparison is just stupid. Yes, you can buy a sick game for $60, a game that hundreds or thousands of people worked on and millions of dollars were sunk into. Is it really surprising that some random adult game dev can't deliver the same value for the money?

Also show me the AAA quality $60 porn game we should be comparing this to. Oh, there are no AAA porn games? Oh.

why are YOU concerned with how other people choose to spend their money? You seem quite angry. Are you a developer in disguise?

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

why are YOU concerned with how other people choose to spend their money? You seem quite angry. Are you a developer in disguise?

If you don't want to pay for porn games, don't. But don't try to come up with rationalizations about how AAA games are better or try to pull the mirror-defense with "WELL WHY DO YOU CARE?"