Others Formamorph [v1.1.5] [FieryLion]

[muoto8900]

After I have been playing with this client and trying to build my own world while trying to wrangle the AI in, which sometimes feels like herding a kitten. I am beginning to realize the limitations and wondering if having a game client that handles a lot more of the information instead and just uses the AI to design and describe events would be better. I feel like stat wise the AI loves to just go out of control with or at least I can't seem to get them to play within rules for long. It seems to follow the rules until the stat changes once and then it goes crazy with it even though I have rules saying X stat can only go up by a max of 5 per response, X stat has a max of 100, X stat will increase by 1 when (list of events) happen.

It just made me think that if the game client handles the stat changes based off key words or events that it may make this a lot more controllable and predictable. Also I think it may help to wrangle the AI in as you would not be feeding it tons of lines of previous interactions and instead just giving it specific information for the current scenario such as who is in the room, what is the player currently doing, what items are nearby, current stats (if you want the AI to display those/reference them), or anything else needed to continue to the current situation. I think you would still need to feed it the world data so that the AI doesn't start you in just some random world with no reference to the current one.


No idea if this would actually be better but its just my random thoughts as I have been building and messing with a world based off all of the struggles I have had trying to get the AI to only do certain things within its rules.

 

[Jake James]

So I've been working on this NSFW world for a while now. Would like to see others try it out and mess around with it or even give some tips after taking a look at how it is set up. I went for a very straightforward approach and it works well for the most part, but has some flaws.

Here's everything you'll need to copy my exact setup and then I'll go into my thoughts:

World:

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Tags: Futanari (Main Focus), Impregnation (Heavily Focused), Furry (Cat Girls/Bunnies/etc.), Non-Consensual (When the AI Cooperates)
There's probably more, but those are the ones I can remember I've specifically asked the AI to use in some way

Model: mistral-nemo-instruct-2407-abliterated
^ I run this LOCALLY and haven't changed any settings or prompts in LM Studio

Spoiler: Game Text Prompt

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Spoiler: Choices Prompt

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Spoiler: Stat Updates Prompt

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Spoiler: In-world Locations and Characters

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The biggest thing I've figured out in this setup is that the fewer entities per location the better. It's not about prompt length since LM Studio will throw an error to let you know if that's the case. It seems more related to either how I have Generic vs Unique entities set up or it's just prompt bleed. I'm leaning towards the latter since even within a single character the AI sometimes mixes things up. Areas like Grove Alderyew and Teldorill work pretty well whereas Timbermaw is kinda hit or miss on it remembering each character's info. Sometimes just going to the main menu and starting the game again will get everything to work perfectly for that particular session.

I've also found that keeping things vague or generic work better than trying to be hyper specific all the time. For example, I gave the AI example names for some of the races. It more or less just uses them as a list now and doesn't come up with any random ones anymore. I'd like to fix that and I think describing how the names should sound will work out better than giving examples. AI is incredible at filling in the blanks. That's why it's so bad at following specific instructions.

I also added a section to the Game Text Prompt to make the AI show a little nearby entities section. You can remove it if you want but it does two things that I think are important. Firstly, It makes it so the game engine continues to parse out the generic character entities even after you learn their names. Secondly, It helps keep the AI on track to remember that a generic entity it named Ashe for example is an Elf since it keeps appearing over and over in the responses.

Generally speaking though, it works well. You can even get multiple character to interact with each other and maintain their personalities. Really get creative with your responses, you may be surprised at what it'll come up with. If the AI gets off track, include more details about the scene to keep it in line. i.e. Instead of saying "I pick up the axe" say "I pick up the axe as Ashe continues to stare me down. Our fight is beginning to feel intense". This will tell the AI to have you pick up the axe and also remind it that you two are fighting.


I'm going to try and rewrite a small part of this world in a different style and see if it works better. Instead of explaining character traits in a sort of novel style I'm going to go for more documentation style. Like distinct sections and bullet points and such. If that doesn't work well then I may try something even more heavily structured I'm not sure. Either way, I'm still pretty happy with how this one works so far and want to see if anyone else has some tips or feedback.

 

[Breedking]

Here's a blank slate of my slime world. I've been having problems with the rarity of the serums and mutagens, so I've removed them from the world until I can sort that. (they're supposed to be rare, but the AI offers them at every turn)

So this is just the different slime types so far, and a couple changes to the world description that lets the slimes modify their victim's body. The wording does need to be fixed a bit, I'll work on it this week while I'm on a trip.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Serpream]

After I have been playing with this client and trying to build my own world while trying to wrangle the AI in, which sometimes feels like herding a kitten. I am beginning to realize the limitations and wondering if having a game client that handles a lot more of the information instead and just uses the AI to design and describe events would be better. I feel like stat wise the AI loves to just go out of control with or at least I can't seem to get them to play within rules for long. It seems to follow the rules until the stat changes once and then it goes crazy with it even though I have rules saying X stat can only go up by a max of 5 per response, X stat has a max of 100, X stat will increase by 1 when (list of events) happen.

It just made me think that if the game client handles the stat changes based off key words or events that it may make this a lot more controllable and predictable. Also I think it may help to wrangle the AI in as you would not be feeding it tons of lines of previous interactions and instead just giving it specific information for the current scenario such as who is in the room, what is the player currently doing, what items are nearby, current stats (if you want the AI to display those/reference them), or anything else needed to continue to the current situation. I think you would still need to feed it the world data so that the AI doesn't start you in just some random world with no reference to the current one.


No idea if this would actually be better but its just my random thoughts as I have been building and messing with a world based off all of the struggles I have had trying to get the AI to only do certain things within its rules.

I am going to be blunt. You are probablly being far too specific and overloading AI with too many absolutes.

I been treating mine more like talking Fey creature. You want to be specific with the game rules, but not too specific that it becomes milicious (bores them), yet also cover any extremely important do/donts when setting the rules (to avoid loopholes).

Stuff like:
- Encounter chance starts low **(5-15%)** and increases as the player's body promotes Fertility/Heat, reaching a **maximum chance of 10-35%**.
- Corruption, Heat, and Fertility will increase by a small random percentage only if the event is suitable. For example, during contact with an infected source or when current mutations are spreading. The increase amount should be based on the event and applied in moderation.
- **Impregnation is chance-based on the current Fertility percentage and not guaranteed.** Being in Heat greatly increases this chance.

But then apply an override such as:
- **Parasites ignore the current Fertility.**

 

[TalRash4]

Here's a blank slate of my slime world. I've been having problems with the rarity of the serums and mutagens, so I've removed them from the world until I can sort that. (they're supposed to be rare, but the AI offers them at every turn)

So this is just the different slime types so far, and a couple changes to the world description that lets the slimes modify their victim's body. The wording does need to be fixed a bit, I'll work on it this week while I'm on a trip.

You must be registered to see the links

How did you managed to actually add new types of slimes? I've tried to make new ones, but AI just ignores them.

 

[Jake James]

How did you managed to actually add new types of slimes? I've tried to make new ones, but AI just ignores them.

You have to add it to a location by clicking the check mark in the location itself

 

[muoto8900]

I am going to be blunt. You are probablly being far too specific and overloading AI with too many absolutes.

I been treating mine more like talking Fey creature. You want to be specific with the game rules, but not too specific that it becomes milicious (bores them), yet also cover any extremely important do/donts when setting the rules (to avoid loopholes).

Stuff like:
- Encounter chance starts low **(5-15%)** and increases as the player's body promotes Fertility/Heat, reaching a **maximum chance of 10-35%**.
- Corruption, Heat, and Fertility will increase by a small random percentage only if the event is suitable. For example, during contact with an infected source or when current mutations are spreading. The increase amount should be based on the event and applied in moderation.
- **Impregnation is chance-based on the current Fertility percentage and not guaranteed.** Being in Heat greatly increases this chance.

But then apply an override such as:
- **Parasites ignore the current Fertility.**

The issue I have been having at least is that even when I was more vague or have general guidelines the AI would go way outside those and just increase the stat for the most randomness of things. Putting more specific guides has helped but you may be correct that I may have gone too far. I also need to re-look at my world rules as I pulled some from another player's who has a massive list that they use to get the AI to not assume the player's actions or responses to events and to force the AI to be more descriptive. I have been thinking about ripping out most of the other player's rules and slowly reintroduce them to see if there were either conflicts or something.

 

[muoto8900]

So I've been working on this NSFW world for a while now. Would like to see others try it out and mess around with it or even give some tips after taking a look at how it is set up. I went for a very straightforward approach and it works well for the most part, but has some flaws.

Here's everything you'll need to copy my exact setup and then I'll go into my thoughts:

World: Mega

Tags: Futanari (Main Focus), Impregnation (Heavily Focused), Furry (Cat Girls/Bunnies/etc.), Non-Consensual (When the AI Cooperates)
There's probably more, but those are the ones I can remember I've specifically asked the AI to use in some way

Model: mistral-nemo-instruct-2407-abliterated
^ I run this LOCALLY and haven't changed any settings or prompts in LM Studio

Spoiler: Game Text Prompt

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Spoiler: Choices Prompt

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Spoiler: Stat Updates Prompt

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Spoiler: In-world Locations and Characters

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The biggest thing I've figured out in this setup is that the fewer entities per location the better. It's not about prompt length since LM Studio will throw an error to let you know if that's the case. It seems more related to either how I have Generic vs Unique entities set up or it's just prompt bleed. I'm leaning towards the latter since even within a single character the AI sometimes mixes things up. Areas like Grove Alderyew and Teldorill work pretty well whereas Timbermaw is kinda hit or miss on it remembering each character's info. Sometimes just going to the main menu and starting the game again will get everything to work perfectly for that particular session.

I've also found that keeping things vague or generic work better than trying to be hyper specific all the time. For example, I gave the AI example names for some of the races. It more or less just uses them as a list now and doesn't come up with any random ones anymore. I'd like to fix that and I think describing how the names should sound will work out better than giving examples. AI is incredible at filling in the blanks. That's why it's so bad at following specific instructions.

I also added a section to the Game Text Prompt to make the AI show a little nearby entities section. You can remove it if you want but it does two things that I think are important. Firstly, It makes it so the game engine continues to parse out the generic character entities even after you learn their names. Secondly, It helps keep the AI on track to remember that a generic entity it named Ashe for example is an Elf since it keeps appearing over and over in the responses.

Generally speaking though, it works well. You can even get multiple character to interact with each other and maintain their personalities. Really get creative with your responses, you may be surprised at what it'll come up with. If the AI gets off track, include more details about the scene to keep it in line. i.e. Instead of saying "I pick up the axe" say "I pick up the axe as Ashe continues to stare me down. Our fight is beginning to feel intense". This will tell the AI to have you pick up the axe and also remind it that you two are fighting.


I'm going to try and rewrite a small part of this world in a different style and see if it works better. Instead of explaining character traits in a sort of novel style I'm going to go for more documentation style. Like distinct sections and bullet points and such. If that doesn't work well then I may try something even more heavily structured I'm not sure. Either way, I'm still pretty happy with how this one works so far and want to see if anyone else has some tips or feedback.

Have you found that the stat descriptors in the stats section are actually taken into account or are they just used as a description if you ask how fertile you're (in regards to your world)?

 

[muoto8900]

Another question I have for anyone else who cares to comment. Do you play with single paragraphs on or off? And what are you reasons for your choice?

I ask as I have seen + and - to both and sometimes need to switch but I get very different results from the AI and how much detail they provide or if they go to far with a scenario. When I have had it off, I have seen some amazing descriptions from the AI but I have also had it just assume where a scene should go and what my characters actions would be in response to the NPC's actions.

Edit: Though I do wonder how much of it is the AI I have chosen specifically.

 

[Jake James]

Have you found that the stat descriptors in the stats section are actually taken into account or are they just used as a description if you ask how fertile you're (in regards to your world)?

I created and tweaked them at the start, but I've been ignoring them for the time being, sorry. I'm not sure how to get them integrated better at the moment.

 

[Jake James]

Another question I have for anyone else who cares to comment. Do you play with single paragraphs on or off? And what are you reasons for your choice?

I ask as I have seen + and - to both and sometimes need to switch but I get very different results from the AI and how much detail they provide or if they go to far with a scenario. When I have had it off, I have seen some amazing descriptions from the AI but I have also had it just assume where a scene should go and what my characters actions would be in response to the NPC's actions.

Edit: Though I do wonder how much of it is the AI I have chosen specifically.

I'd actually like some clarification from the dev on how that setting works on the back end. I leave it off because it completely changes how the AI responds. I'd like to set a paragraph limit, but not a single paragraph limit and attempts to do so through the in game prompt settings doesn't really work.

 

[muoto8900]

I'd actually like some clarification from the dev on how that setting works on the back end. I leave it off because it completely changes how the AI responds. I'd like to set a paragraph limit, but not a single paragraph limit and attempts to do so through the in game prompt settings doesn't really work.

I am not sure I am 100% correct on this but I believe you setting a token limit actually prevents the AI from responding with too much.

I personally leave it on a lot but taking it off on occasion for when I know more detail is needed though it depends on how the AI is acting at the time. Right now I have it off but the AI keeps assuming my actions and what my character says in situations instead of giving me the option which is kind of annoying as it leads me in ways I didn't want and have to rollback and be specific about things.

 

[muoto8900]

Also for anyone interested in world building. As it may be a bit quicker, I have created a thread on the Devs discord to pool knowledge about world building as I know we're all still learning about it.

 

[muoto8900]

I created and tweaked them at the start, but I've been ignoring them for the time being, sorry. I'm not sure how to get them integrated better at the moment.

Darn was hoping you knew or not as I have wanted to use it but I have spent more time trying to prevent the AI from randomly increasing values when it makes no sense to. Like one world I had a hypnotized stat but the AI would increase it randomly from just meeting an enemy that didn't have that ability or just walking around the world. If I could wrangle that in there are some fun things I have planned with stats.

 

[Jake James]

Darn was hoping you knew or not as I have wanted to use it but I have spent more time trying to prevent the AI from randomly increasing values when it makes no sense to. Like one world I had a hypnotized stat but the AI would increase it randomly from just meeting an enemy that didn't have that ability or just walking around the world. If I could wrangle that in there are some fun things I have planned with stats.

Yeah, I've had similar issues. One thing you may want to try is to just literally ask the AI about how it interprets your instructions. I created a chat in LM Studio and asked it to give me feedback on my character sheets and it's actually been really helpful after testing it in the game. Maybe you could do the same for stats? Give it a list and descriptions and ask it what it understands and what it doesn't.

 

[muoto8900]

I have done that in game and when it has added stats when it shouldn't have just tells me an error occurred which caused stats to be added. Which honestly just feels like it fucked up and doesnt want to admit it lol. I have asked it to explain my rules in its own words and it has understood them to a T. But it will also sometimes just do it anyway. It has made me wonder if its how Formamorph is providing it data as if you watch the logs you can see it re-feeding it data each time you submit a new prompt. Though I am not sure but it is why I made the post of I wonder if it would be better to create a game client that handles all of the stat changes based off what the AI says and not let the AI provide the stat changes.

For example: So if your prompt of the AI says your character started to get horny then the excitement stat would go up by 5 or whatever is set in the client.

Jake James I am currently trying your world as is with your rules, beyond my normal ! command one to help control the world. As I was curious if the AI would react better to yours in regards to stats but unfortunately I am sitting on 800 health and only 30 pages in lol

Also in regards to chat inside LM Studio, I have asked it many questions on how to do something or how it should react to certain data and it will tell me one thing but after trying the same thing in Formamorph it has either ignored it for commands or reacted differently. What type of info did you gather from it that helped?

 

[Jake James]

I have done that in game and when it has added stats when it shouldn't have just tells me an error occurred which caused stats to be added. Which honestly just feels like it fucked up and doesnt want to admit it lol. I have asked it to explain my rules in its own words and it has understood them to a T. But it will also sometimes just do it anyway. It has made me wonder if its how Formamorph is providing it data as if you watch the logs you can see it re-feeding it data each time you submit a new prompt. Though I am not sure but it is why I made the post of I wonder if it would be better to create a game client that handles all of the stat changes based off what the AI says and not let the AI provide the stat changes.

For example: So if your prompt of the AI says your character started to get horny then the excitement stat would go up by 5 or whatever is set in the client.

Jake James I am currently trying your world as is with your rules, beyond my normal ! command one to help control the world. As I was curious if the AI would react better to yours in regards to stats but unfortunately I am sitting on 800 health and only 30 pages in lol

Also in regards to chat inside LM Studio, I have asked it many questions on how to do something or how it should react to certain data and it will tell me one thing but after trying the same thing in Formamorph it has either ignored it for commands or reacted differently. What type of info did you gather from it that helped?

I'll just give you the result. Here's a new character I made after taking some feedback from the AI:

Spoiler: Auri

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And here's a generic elf blueprint

Spoiler: Elf

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Here's the new Synthia as well just so you can compare the old vs. the new format if you look into the world I posted

Spoiler: Synthia

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The AI is able to have a descriptive interaction between the player, Synthia, and the made-up elf including those with sexual themes. It still forgets specific positioning, but it remembers enough to keep the story flowing well.

This could simply be a best case scenario, but:
I tested starting the game up then going to the throne room where Synthia directed me to become an apprentice guard under Auri. Auri introduced me to the rest of the guards and I singled out a generic healer. Asked the healer for help then invited her for drinks later as a thanks. Auri escorted me to the inn after training and we both took a seat with the healer. While in the inn, initiated a threesome. AI directed us to a darker corner of the inn. Was able to keep pretty good track of who was doing what and describe what I wanted to do. Afterwards, it still remembered we were in an inn and added the flavor that the inn was luckily not too busy tonight so we went unnoticed.

In the old world and formatting, the AI often had trouble creating generic versions of characters. I think this new formatting helps separate the two for it immensely. I'm not sure how something similar could be done for stats, but it's something to think about.

Edit: Hmm, looks like the forum messes up the bullet points. Just keep in mind stuff like this is double indented properly in the actual input:

• Hair:
  • Style: Short, braided, double buns
  • Color: Blonde

Also, i'm obviously planning on releasing the rewrite of the world once I get it converted over. I'm even more satisfied with the new version so far. It's just way easier to write in general compared to essay style character sheets.

 

[Nouvi]

Am I ever glad I actually gave this the chance and effort it took to set up with qwen2. I've honestly been sorta afraid of actually trying local ai stuff due to the seeming complexity.

Interestingly, in my last session in the Veilwoods, the AI randomly described "otherworldly tendril flora with crystal tips", which ended up (after some pushing) with a full on raptor tf, being claimed in a cave by another raptor, breeding and egg birth with lots of loving cuddling and eventual hatching of the eggs...
I'm honestly surprised the AI could pull such a thing off with relatively minor guidance, and even avoid censorship.

Oh how I wish there was an AI that wasn't tainted by obnoxious censorship out there, because that was one heck of a fun session.
Regardless, I'm definitely looking forward and going to try out any custom worlds that gets made... so good luck to everyone who tries their hand at that.

 

[Jake James]

Am I ever glad I actually gave this the chance and effort it took to set up with qwen2. I've honestly been sorta afraid of actually trying local ai stuff due to the seeming complexity.

Interestingly, in my last session in the Veilwoods, the AI randomly described "otherworldly tendril flora with crystal tips", which ended up (after some pushing) with a full on raptor tf, being claimed in a cave by another raptor, breeding and egg birth with lots of loving cuddling and eventual hatching of the eggs...
I'm honestly surprised the AI could pull such a thing off with relatively minor guidance, and even avoid censorship.

Oh how I wish there was an AI that wasn't tainted by obnoxious censorship out there, because that was one heck of a fun session.
Regardless, I'm definitely looking forward and going to try out any custom worlds that gets made... so good luck to everyone who tries their hand at that.

You're welcome to take a look at the one I posted earlier: https://f95zone.to/threads/formamorph-v1-1-3-fierylion.244521/post-16344431

Also, I highly recommend switching to mistral-nemo-instruct-2407-abliterated if you're concerned with censorship. From my testing it is way better equipped to deal with NSFW situations than anything else I looked at personally.

 

[Nouvi]

You're welcome to take a look at the one I posted earlier: https://f95zone.to/threads/formamorph-v1-1-3-fierylion.244521/post-16344431

Also, I highly recommend switching to mistral-nemo-instruct-2407-abliterated if you're concerned with censorship. From my testing it is way better equipped to deal with NSFW situations than anything else I looked at personally.

Oh believe me, that world is already hot on the list for trying later, so thanks for making that. Seems to be very interesting.
As for mistral, thanks for the tip, I'll try that.