Others Formamorph [v1.1.5] [FieryLion]

[Serpream]

Serpream Been testing your word for a bit, and gotta say I'm pretty impressed with how consistent you've managed to make it even if 'stress testing' it with vaguer commands than usual and relatively long sessions. Good work on that.

Just felt that my last experience leaves me with one question though... WHAT IN THE NINE HELLS DID YOU MAKE.
First thing I met was a friendly "small, orange furred, fox-like bat with expressive eyes" dropping down on my shoulder from above, and thought... "Nimbat much?"
Thing is, that a little later it put a seed into my character's stomach... raised my eyebrows a bit, but still a sorta interesting surprise to see the parasite mechanic happen in this way. Even if it felt kinda treacherous.
Anyway, seed hatched into a worm which isn't too special... worm evolved into a tiny serpent... interesting, but not all that special... later it evolved again into a WINGED serpent. That's where I start to feel it getting a bit off kilter.
Next stage though. That's the thing. It turned into a bloody dragon. Dragon, of all thing. So my character's now been running around with a miniature dragon squirming around in their stomach. That's beyond crazy. Craziest of it all, is that it's become more aware and actually communicating with my character. What have this all become...

haha like I said I wanted to break and push the AI while being under lack of sleep myself. Going to be refining it now over the week as AI seems to really love plant stuff, so trying to stop that unless you are deep in the forest.

I also just discovered the Entities list from app was interfereing with the way I been dynamicly generating stuff. Having better luck after I delete them from file.

*also fixed typos and forgot to readd the whole Female mutation systems skew back in. So start Male -> Female as you progressed.

 

[jumbajookiba]

Someones gotta help me out here, please!

Using LM Studio, same AI setup as many here. 12k+ context length on LM.
On formamorph max output token is 1000, 100000000 for the Max Memory.

Usually about 10-15 ish prompts in, the AI forgets everything that has happened and resets the situation. Player, NPCs and everyone who has changed goes back to their standard.

The heck am I doing wrong here? Or is this just a limitation I need to adapt to?

 

[fierylion]

Someones gotta help me out here, please!

Using LM Studio, same AI setup as many here. 12k+ context length on LM.
On formamorph max output token is 1000, 100000000 for the Max Memory.

Usually about 10-15 ish prompts in, the AI forgets everything that has happened and resets the situation. Player, NPCs and everyone who has changed goes back to their standard.

The heck am I doing wrong here? Or is this just a limitation I need to adapt to?

That's weird, what model are you using? Make sure you actually have enough VRAM to support the 12k context length as more context = more vram used

 

[Nouvi]

jumbajookiba
100M is way too much Max Memory. AI's are surprisingly much like humans in this sense, as having waaaaaay too much information to deal with at once would just leave you in a state of "wtf do I do with all this".

From my experiences, anything more than ~20k starts making it unstable, and 50k+ is immensely hard to work with past about 30 responses, where it gets incredibly stubborn about repeating stuff regardless of what you try.
Around 15k seems to work well, but you'd still need to 'remind' it of stuff you want it to remember well roughly every 6-7 responses, but still somewhat remember lesser details quite a bit down the line.
This is all honestly just quirks and limits to how AI's work, it looks like.

You might also want to double check and make sure you're not using a Q3 quality AI, as Q4 or better is basically required. Q3 WILL break.
(also, of note, if you experience text cutting off suddenly at the end, increase output tokens. I noticed I had to increase it to 2k to avoid occasional issues)

 

[jumbajookiba]

Thank you both, it really helps me get my head around what's going on.

fierylion I have about 20GB sitting free on my VRAM but I do wonder how much of that is being actively used by LM Studio but I don't understand AI well enough nor LM Studio to know for sure. I've literally ignored the AI revolution on a hardware basis until now, this game is literally forcing me to learn I'm using mistral-nemo-instruct-2407-abliterated Q5_K_S. 7B Params if that helps?

Nouvi Sorry! I wrote something wrong. I am using that high value for character length max memory on formamorph, but I assumed that was a more literal value? Should it match the context length? As above, I don't know much about AI. I really appreciate your detail though, thank you!

 

[Serpream]

fierylion So something I have noticed and would go a long way to help with generated actions to prompts and weird overflow issues is the linkage to the event prompt.
Would it be possible for the Event and Stat prompts to take place first. Finish, and then do a fresh prompt for the actions?

I am doing final touches on my Version 4 now with insanely much improved prompts and consistancy. Current test has me locked in a Eldritch Hospital trying to escape as weird figures doing experiements on previous staff... Think of Hush from Buffy with them reacting to sound. Ai scares me.

Before that I was happily walking through the forest and enjoying the rivers >.<

 

[Nouvi]

Nouvi Sorry! I wrote something wrong. I am using that high value for character length max memory on formamorph, but I assumed that was a more literal value? Should it match the context length? As above, I don't know much about AI. I really appreciate your detail though, thank you!

I actually think we were pretty much on the same page. I was talking about the values you can set in Formamorph->In-game Menu->Settings->Endpoint.
4th line, Max Memory (Characters) - Functionally it's how much of the past events it tries to remember. As mentioned in my last post, approx ideal value I found was around ~15k.
5th line, Output tokens - Basically, the amount of text it CAN output, not necessarily WILL output. Basis of 2k-ish seems fine, but doesn't actually seem to matter overall on performance, just that too low would cut off text early. Raise it if that ever happens. Sometimes it can seem like it locks up and keeps trying to receive a response, but nothing appears - if it happens a lot, you can try adjusting this lower, so it won't go on for as long.

In LMStudio itself is where you change context length, which is, if you looked at it's tooltip, just how much data it can handle at once in a query. Higher value lets it take a longer, more complex request and consider more world rules, but also makes it slower and more unstable. It's best kept at a "just enough" point. Vanilla worlds are fine with default value there, but big custom world like Jake's and Serpream's work better with a value around 7k-10k. If it's too low, LMStudio will tell you, and by how much so you can raise it as appropriate.

(A fair bit might just be a repeat of my last post tbh, just tried to explain it a bit better. Also a lil disclaimer, these are mostly from personal experience after a TON of tweaking since formamorph came out. Values aren't guaranteed to work smoothly for every world.)

 

[fierylion]

fierylion So something I have noticed and would go a long way to help with generated actions to Would it be possible for the Event and Stat prompts to take place first. Finish, and then do a fresh prompt for the actions?

The game infact makes 3 separate calls to the AI! The first AI call is only for the event game text, the second and third calls (in parallel) are for stat and choices.

 

[fierylion]

fierylion I have about 20GB sitting free on my VRAM but I do wonder how much of that is being actively used by LM Studio but I don't understand AI well enough nor LM Studio to know for sure. I've literally ignored the AI revolution on a hardware basis until now, this game is literally forcing me to learn I'm using mistral-nemo-instruct-2407-abliterated Q5_K_S. 7B Params if that helps?

Try non abliterated version to see if quality improves, I know abliterated models are quite a fair bit dumber, its like performing brain pruning surgery that cuts of a bunch of connections afterall.

 

[Serpream]

The game infact makes 3 separate calls to the AI! The first AI call is only for the event game text, the second and third calls (in parallel) are for stat and choices.

That is interesting as I often can get tables and events bleeding into actions and visa versa. I have to keep putting stops and being extremely careful where stuff goes.

Even had situations where actions prompt starts in event, but then continues in actions so you can only click 4-8.

Guess I am back to tweaking tonight. Still have odd issues now and then with being stuck in loops unable to move from events. Yet other times I was locked in a mad maze with puzzles and it remembered all the keys and everything. So hard to understand why.

 

[jumbajookiba]

I'm not going to @ you both, because I know how annoying it can be, but thank you for your help.

I changed the length to 20K and it worked a lot better. I'm going to try non- abliterated version soon too, see how it goes.

Really appreciate the help.

 

[Nouvi]

Serpream
Just had the oddest response from the ai when playing your world, and it seemed significant enough to warrant telling you.
AI, at one point, suddenly responded with a "Apologies for the oversight. The (randomtraitname) trait was removed from the table because it was a test value, and not a part of the Game Rules."

I was thinking this might be valuable information in finding a way for tables to be persistently remembered better... well, unless you knew about this already.

 

[Serpream]

Serpream
Just had the oddest response from the ai when playing your world, and it seemed significant enough to warrant telling you.
AI, at one point, suddenly responded with a "Apologies for the oversight. The (randomtraitname) trait was removed from the table because it was a test value, and not a part of the Game Rules."

I was thinking this might be valuable information in finding a way for tables to be persistently remembered better... well, unless you knew about this already.

I got tables pretty much sorted. The issue I have is getting the main stats to match the Programs UI. But thanks to above information I have a theory to fix that now as well. Did not know how the calls was being done. So I will have to duplicate certain rules to main world rules and prompts.

Hopefully will have a updated version in few hours as I am just sat here now waiting on deliveries.

 

[Deathend]

a small problem i found is that sometimes if you open 2 instances of the game (i do it to copy things from one world to another) all the in game settings reset by themselves.

 

[Nouvi]

a small problem i found is that sometimes if you open 2 instances of the game (i do it to copy things from one world to another) all the in game settings reset by themselves.

That's actually very explainable in most cases, what you're doing likely makes both clients fight each other about writing to the same files, making them reset because of read/write errors. Mostly due to how it autosaves continuously, rather than having a 'save changes' button.

You might want to consider copying stuff to a text file instead.

 

[fierylion]

a small problem i found is that sometimes if you open 2 instances of the game (i do it to copy things from one world to another) all the in game settings reset by themselves.

I could add system prompt presets!
Is it needed? the list of bugs are a bit long tho so idk what to prioritize LMAO

 

[Nouvi]

I could add system prompt presets!

Actually, when you said that it made me think of saveable 'profiles'. It really would be great to be able to hot swap between prompt setups on the fly, rather than mess with copies saved in text files whenever you want to play different worlds.
It would also be nice if worlds stayed saved to the main menu (with the ability to remove the manually added ones as well ofc)

Also minor question, is there a way to prevent AI from changing max stats, limit the range it can be changed, or set it so only certain stats can have their maximum changed? I've tried making a bunch of prompts and rules, but they just get ignored.

 

[SleepySnake]

Update: Best to play on the website version, it loads 4x faster and is easier to navigate. Amazing game once you figure out how to adjust it to your liking. Don't use the pre determined prompts, get creative and create your own, even add onto the existing prompts. Best bit of advice, use the back log button and the edit tool to adjust the ai generated responses. it'll be a lot easier than expecting the ai to know exactly what you want. Only thing that could be further developed is the body mechanics and customization, the body doesn't change in some circumstances. Learn the entities names and utilize them in your story and don't be afraid to make up fauna or flora. Highly recommend for those who like text prompted pregnancy and transformation

 

[Gizza]

Actually, when you said that it made me think of saveable 'profiles'. It really would be great to be able to hot swap between prompt setups on the fly, rather than mess with copies saved in text files whenever you want to play different worlds.
It would also be nice if worlds stayed saved to the main menu (with the ability to remove the manually added ones as well ofc)

Also minor question, is there a way to prevent AI from changing max stats, limit the range it can be changed, or set it so only certain stats can have their maximum changed? I've tried making a bunch of prompts and rules, but they just get ignored.

I have noticed this aswell, I can play for an hour or so and the max stat values dont change but randomly 1 or 2 max stat values will change for no obvious reason. In some instances its goes from Max of 100 down to 25.
I have been struggling to figure out how to forcefully increase/decrease stat values while playing. Even using the generated responses that says to do (action) to increase x stat, it doesnt do it.

I have also tried using setting rules in the system prompts but cant say for certain as sometimes said stat will increase when a certain action is performed and other times it wont.
A hunger stat im trying to figure has me bewildered, regardless of what ever way I tell it to eat food the stat wont increase.

 

[Nouvi]

I have noticed this aswell, I can play for an hour or so and the max stat values dont change but randomly 1 or 2 max stat values will change for no obvious reason. In some instances its goes from Max of 100 down to 25.

For me it's been way more extreme, ending up with cases where numbers go straight up exponential ending up in values of 500M+ over ~30 responses, or just straight up insta-dropping to 0 which also breaks the 3d model... (thank god for the edit function I guess, but that's just a temporary solution)