Ren'Py Four Elements Trainer [v1.1.2b] [Mity]

[IdarksoulsI]

Well, I disagree on that one. This scene has no sexual tension at all but perfectly shows the evil genius that is Azula. Yes, she may(!) sound seductive, yet not in a sexual sense, but in a sense of luring Zuko to admit, he's not 100% sure the Avatar is dead.
Zuko remains an exception in the anime series when it comes to love. He is loved by quite some women but does he really love one of them? It may sound strange but I think the only woman in the show he really could love is Katara, because she's probably the one reminding him the most of his mother.
Azula on the other hand has some biiiig daddy issues. And that's because the thing that attracts and excites her the most is power, something her father has plenty of. I'm not even sure such a person could really love anyone. It's kind of sad.

But the game makes much sense on that matter. You can only share her bed if you prove you have more power than her. (And by using her dad btw.) Breaking her is the only way I can imagine, her becoming a new person.

 

[Balrog]

Well, I disagree on that one. This scene has no sexual tension at all but perfectly shows the evil genius that is Azula. Yes, she may(!) sound seductive, yet not in a sexual sense, but in a sense of luring Zuko to admit, he's not 100% sure the Avatar is dead.
Zuko remains an exception in the anime series when it comes to love. He is loved by quite some women but does he really love one of them? It may sound strange but I think the only woman in the show he really could love is Katara, because she's probably the one reminding him the most of his mother.
Azula on the other hand has some biiiig daddy issues. And that's because the thing that attracts and excites her the most is power, something her father has plenty of. I'm not even sure such a person could really love anyone. It's kind of sad.

But the game makes much sense on that matter. You can only share her bed if you prove you have more power than her. (And by using her dad btw.) Breaking her is the only way I can imagine, her becoming a new person.

Except Azula canonicaly had no freaking clue anything was wrong at that point as said in the novelization, she was just fucking with Zuko and Zuko was just being paranoid when he though she was setting him up (he overestimated her).

It's a big thing that Azula doesn't know half as much as she want other people to think, that facade going away due to Zuko running away under her nose and her friends siding with him in addition to her father's behavior are the biggest factors to her paranoid induced banishement of the palace's staff.

Also sorry but i don't swallow the Zuko / Katara thing for a single second, she doesn't even act in any way, shape or form like Ursa does.

 

[IdarksoulsI]

Oh, she may not know for certain but she's convinced enough to lie about the Avatar's dead to her father in case Suko is lying to her (screenshot from the scene where she's getting suspicious) and she's absolutely right about it.

I don't see her as weak or overconfident, there's plenty of situations where she's reading and manipulating people on the highest level. Toph can't even tell if she's lying.
In my book she's the most impressive character in regards to power play and real powers. She's kind of an evil Iroh.

 

[Balrog]

Oh, she may not know for certain but she's convinced enough to lie about the Avatar's dead to her father in case Suko is lying to her (screenshot from the scene where she's getting suspicious) and she's absolutely right about it.

I don't see her as weak or overconfident, there's plenty of situations where she's reading and manipulating people on the highest level. Toph can't even tell if she's lying.
In my book she's the most impressive character in regards to power play and real powers. She's kind of an evil Iroh.

She get doubtful at times but mostly dismiss it as his melodrama, if Azula had really been convinced Zuko was bulshitting, she'd have used it, even if at that point she was pretty chill with him (the novelisation has her be actualy serious about restoring Zuko and the whole team up thing, that wasn't a trick, though one of the staff guy said on twitter that they weren't really sure themself on that so we got a few mixed signal in that storyline, take that as you will, i personaly don't put much stock in twitter info but it does fit), it's pretty obvious, Azula always used everything at her disposal.

She isn't weak but she isn't as strong or all-knowing as she try to portray herself to others and her reading people only extent to fear except for Zuko who she can actualy play like a fiddle most of the time (the only time she miss something about him is while he was acting uncharacteristicly dishonorably due to his internal conflict and that was after 3 years without seeing him, that's damn impressive), that was kinda the point of the 'i love him more than i fear you' scene (a scene that the comics ruined, with Mai breaking up with Zuko over the stupidiest shit like they are freaking Ross and Rachel and falling for the first obvious honey trap that came around).

Also her fooling Toph is because Azula always lie, as Zuko said (which only he seems to have realised), she lie even to herself almost constantly so obviously there wouldn't be a difference between when she lie or not.

IMO, that's the irony of the character, she give that aura of power and authority and technicaly even really has it but end up really being just a puppet for Ozai until her breakdown, everything she did and gain, she always immediatly gave to her father after all (which she probably realised, which is why she barely even acknowledge he exist in the comics and is more focused on Zuko and Ursa.)

 

[emaki]

Well, I disagree on that one. This scene has no sexual tension at all but perfectly shows the evil genius that is Azula. Yes, she may(!) sound seductive, yet not in a sexual sense, but in a sense of luring Zuko to admit, he's not 100% sure the Avatar is dead.
Zuko remains an exception in the anime series when it comes to love. He is loved by quite some women but does he really love one of them? It may sound strange but I think the only woman in the show he really could love is Katara, because she's probably the one reminding him the most of his mother.
Azula on the other hand has some biiiig daddy issues. And that's because the thing that attracts and excites her the most is power, something her father has plenty of. I'm not even sure such a person could really love anyone. It's kind of sad.

But the game makes much sense on that matter. You can only share her bed if you prove you have more power than her. (And by using her dad btw.) Breaking her is the only way I can imagine, her becoming a new person.

Yeah, no sexual tension at all...

 

[nevt2050ptr]

I was never on that incest train but Zucest is one of my few exceptions. It's a pity that Mity created an OC on slave route in Book 2, because love route in that book is best of part of this game and I just hope that he will add more content to that story (wishful thinking)

 

[Semondemon]

Well I never meant to derail the thread with my disdain for incest, I had a sister who despised me and I never saw the point to the whole shebang so I proactively avoid it as I've said. If you like it what am I gonna do over it? fugeddabout it
I'd rather play as someone with nothing to do with Korra maybe a standby and we grant him avatar powers because our soul is in him and we fug Korra or someone specific that the goof ass you play as would fit into if not that.

 

[Balrog]

Well I never meant to derail the thread with my disdain for incest, I had a sister who despised me and I never saw the point to the whole shebang so I proactively avoid it as I've said. If you like it what am I gonna do over it? fugeddabout it
I'd rather play as someone with nothing to do with Korra maybe a standby and we grant him avatar powers because our soul is in him and we fug Korra or someone specific that the goof ass you play as would fit into if not that.

It's not derailing, we're just actively talking about characters that are in the game and how book 2 was constructed, discussion is pretty interesting IMO, though i haven't really seen someone tell me why the OC was necessary yet.

 

[IdarksoulsI]

She get doubtful at times but mostly dismiss it as his melodrama, if Azula had really been convinced Zuko was bulshitting, she'd have used it, even if at that point she was pretty chill with him (the novelisation has her be actualy serious about restoring Zuko and the whole team up thing, that wasn't a trick, though one of the staff guy said on twitter that they weren't really sure themself on that so we got a few mixed signal in that storyline, take that as you will, i personaly don't put much stock in twitter info but it does fit), it's pretty obvious, Azula always used everything at her disposal.

She isn't weak but she isn't as strong or all-knowing as she try to portray herself to others and her reading people only extent to fear except for Zuko who she can actualy play like a fiddle most of the time (the only time she miss something about him is while he was acting uncharacteristicly dishonorably due to his internal conflict and that was after 3 years without seeing him, that's damn impressive), that was kinda the point of the 'i love him more than i fear you' scene (a scene that the comics ruined, with Mai breaking up with Zuko over the stupidiest shit like they are freaking Ross and Rachel and falling for the first obvious honey trap that came around).

Also her fooling Toph is because Azula always lie, as Zuko said (which only he seems to have realised), she lie even to herself almost constantly so obviously there wouldn't be a difference between when she lie or not.

IMO, that's the irony of the character, she give that aura of power and authority and technicaly even really has it but end up really being just a puppet for Ozai until her breakdown, everything she did and gain, she always immediatly gave to her father after all (which she probably realised, which is why she barely even acknowledge he exist in the comics and is more focused on Zuko and Ursa.)

I haven't read the comics nor did I follow the anime series back then, Mity's game was what introduced me to it. Of course every additional information you get will alter how you perceive a certain scene/situation/character. Given that I don't think we're far away in how we portrait Azula. Part of what makes her so interesting is the unknown about her 'real' character. She admits, she's a monster but not without mentioning being neglected by her mother. For me she has a hidden core inside her that can be human and loving but this view surely is influenced by my own view of the world. On the last part I agree on 100%.

About Ursa, all I know about her is she's acting very kind and motherly and that is what Katara is in my view.

View attachment 432366

Yeah, no sexual tension at all...

1. You're comparing two completely different scenes. It's for the luls I get that, but it's not something to counter my point.
2. If you look through Zuko's eyes in this scene you won't find any sexual interest or even love. Imo you're just projecting your own view on this. And I get that, who wouldn't want to fuck this crazy bitch.
3. I have a sister and I can assure you, I've seen her countless times in situations like this but all I ever saw was my sister, a girl lying on a bed. Pretty normal stuff.

 

[Balrog]

I haven't read the comics nor did I follow the anime series back then, Mity's game was what introduced me to it. Of course every additional information you get will alter how you perceive a certain scene/situation/character. Given that I don't think we're far away in how we portrait Azula. Part of what makes her so interesting is the unknown about her 'real' character. She admits, she's a monster but not without mentioning being neglected by her mother. For me she has a hidden core inside her that can be human and loving but this view surely is influenced by my own view of the world. On the last part I agree on 100%.

About Ursa, all I know about her is she's acting very kind and motherly and that is what Katara is in my view.

1. You're comparing two completely different scenes. It's for the luls I get that, but it's not something to counter my point.
2. If you look through Zuko's eyes in this scene you won't find any sexual interest or even love. Imo you're just projecting your own view on this. And I get that, who wouldn't want to fuck this crazy bitch.
3. I have a sister and I can assure you, I've seen her countless times in situations like this but all I ever saw was my sister, a girl lying on a bed. Pretty normal stuff.

Zuko has 'no' (not much, but IMO he still is pretty affected at a few point during that scene) lust in his eyes because he passed his whole life with her, you really think Azula wouldn't think of pulling that one on Zuko before then ? Also he has a lot of stuff on his mind but he still respond to her game.

I doubt the freaking symbol of temptation in your mind has your sister's voice though and Azula wasn't just lying on her bed like that when Zuko entered the room, she circled around him while talking and specificaly went back to her bed in that position, it's not how she just normaly go to bed.

(I'm not saying it's the 100% true way to see things though, i'm just saying there are clear signs here)

 

[NoblePhantasm]

You're telling him that he's projecting but you keep talking about your relationship with your sister. Perhaps you're doing the same?

I personally never picked up on any incest themes while I watched the show but I will say that Azula didn't know how relationships with people worked. Ember Islands was a perfect episode to show that. She likes it when people respect her and fear her but she has absolutely no idea how to talk to people on a personal level. Her words are stilted and she struggles to give compliments that aren't related to strength or power.

I could see her laying on incestuous overtones without realizing it herself. Zuko is one of the few people she actually loves...in her own way.

 

[Wonka_Willy]

At this point even the Summertime Saga update might drop before this one.

you're right xD

 

[IdarksoulsI]

You're telling him that he's projecting but you keep talking about your relationship with your sister. Perhaps you're doing the same?

I personally never picked up on any incest themes while I watched the show but I will say that Azula didn't know how relationships with people worked. Ember Islands was a perfect episode to show that. She likes it when people respect her and fear her but she has absolutely no idea how to talk to people on a personal level. Her words are stilted and she struggles to give compliments that aren't related to strength or power.

I could see her laying on incestuous overtones without realizing it herself. Zuko is one of the few people she actually loves...in her own way.

No, I'm not projecting, I'm observing. Show this scene to 1000 people and tell me most of it would see it as incest. Then you may have a point. Go watch the scene, there is no hint at all Zuko is lusting for his sister, you're all just making this up.
I don't say it's wrong or something, I have no problems with fictional characters doing all sorts of crazy shit.
But I can't see any of this in the show. If you do, that's fine but then it's just something we don't agree on, no problem.

 

[Balrog]

No, I'm not projecting, I'm observing. Show this scene to 1000 people and tell me most of it would see it as incest. Then you may have a point. Go watch the scene, there is no hint at all Zuko is lusting for his sister, you're all just making this up.
I don't say it's wrong or something, I have no problems with fictional characters doing all sort of crazy shit.
But I can't see any of this in the show. If you do, that's fine but then it's just something we don't agree on, no problem.

Not saying anything but since you brough up numbers, you seems to be the one in the minority here on if that scene has incest undertone or not.

That and 1000 is a low target, i'v seen Zucest post on Tumblr with like 5000 notes / likes and god know tumblr was never all that big (without counting the bots), same for sites like instagram, hell there is an instagram post with 1500 likes about the very scene we're talking about (yes, i'v checked on both sites, i'm that much of a sperg but hey, it's a subject i like.)

 

[FlipFish]

I didn't mean to turn this into some big argument and I never once said that Zuko wanted to fuck his sister in the show. Obviously neither Zuko or Azula wanted to fuck each other, Zuko was being cautious of her and Azula was being manipulative of him. But I distinctly remember the VA of Azula saying that the scene was framed with certain undertones very purposely by the showrunners themselves. I'm trying to find the source, but I think it was on Tumblr and is probably gone by now.

In the end it's subjective, people are going to have different interpretations of the scene. I personally thought that there were incest undertones on Azula's part even if she wasn't consciously doing it during that part and only during that part, but again that's just my interpretation.

 

[Balrog]

I didn't mean to turn this into some big argument and I never once said that Zuko wanted to fuck his sister in the show. Obviously neither Zuko or Azula wanted to fuck each other, Zuko was being cautious of her and Azula was being manipulative of him. But I distinctly remember the VA of Azula saying that the scene was framed with certain undertones very purposely by the showrunners themselves. I'm trying to find the source, but I think it was on Tumblr and is probably gone by now.

In the end it's subjective, people are going to have different interpretations of the scene. I personally thought that there were incest undertones on Azula's part even if she wasn't consciously doing it during that part and only during that part, but again that's just my interpretation.

It's not a big argument, it's a discussion and discussing the bedroom scene is just an extension of the previous discussion the OC in book 2 being unneccesary or not.

 

[IdarksoulsI]

Not saying anything but since you brough up numbers, you seems to be the one in the minority here on if that scene has incest undertone or not.

That and 1000 is a low target, i'v seen Zucest post on Tumblr with like 5000 notes / likes and god know tumblr was never all that big (without counting the bots), same for sites like instagram, hell there is an instagram post with 1500 likes about the very scene we're talking about (yes, i'v checked on both sites, i'm that much of a sperg but hey, it's a subject i like.)

Well, I'm not surprised I'm in the minority here and I think neither are you. It's a forum full of pervs. I'm talking 1000 'standard' people, half of them women.
I really would like to see that source though, where the staff is speaking about this.

 

[Balrog]

Well, I'm not surprised I'm in the minority here and I think neither are you. It's a forum full of pervs. I'm talking 1000 'standard' people, half of them women.
I really would like to see that source though, where the staff is speaking about this.

Half of ATLA's watcher aren't women to begin with and i included instagram, the most normie place you can ever find on the internet.

Also most Zucest fanartist happen to be women.

 

[Cybuster]

Zuko incest thing is weird to me, considering what Zuko is like, it's very hard for me to get aroused for the incest scenes despite I really like incest. I like the slave route more where I create my own custom character and do evil shit. If only the slave route also had pregnancy....

 

[Semondemon]

You can screw her and all three grills at the end of slave route but no impregnation of Azula ticked me off too. You can Joo Dee in slave 3 but not in love 3 kinda ridiculous.