Ren'Py Four Elements Trainer [v1.1.6b] [Mity]

[RebelliousKnightMordred]

Buddy, you are the one who needs to shut up calm down and listen....or don’t? I didn’t make my post to start some huge argument, and I didn’t even really say anything huge that you need to refute or go on some Holy crusade to take me down. But if you’re going to do that, then at least read what I said?


I’m not defending them...in fact my original post was criticizing them and I even said you could be right? Several times?

The original point I made is to stop making these promises and just stick to more general plans, and stop feeding expectations like this.

Also other devs do make promises. Wtf are you talking about?

I won't apologise because I don't regret what I said, it was aimed at people with a similar belief as you that "It's ok if its a week or two late because it's good". I don't find it all right to consistently delay something you promised within a time frame. If you miss a dead line once or twice that's fine. But when you come back from a 4 month gap of absolutely no content and then continue to delay and skip months from that point on is where I have the problem. I could've phrased it better however but I'm frustrated by how passive people seem to be especially when this problem has existed for over a year. F95 is flooded with projects that never make it past 0.1 so people don't care for those, the other projects I can think of that I would rank better than 4ET is Taffy Tales and maybe even Summertime Saga and they're at least honest about expectations to an extent. It takes a while for them but they never promise a monthly release and they don't string people along with update posts promising they're doing their best to get it out in time.

MITY's Patreon earns something like 20k a month, they're missing this months release but they still get paid for this month. Then they'll release this months update in June and still get paid for June while "June's update" comes out in July. Now imagine if I went to work, didn't do anything for a month, still got paid and then did that month's work the next month.

 

[darkgunner079]

The people that tell MITY things like "take as long as you need" are giving them a blank check to fuck around as much as they want just as long as they occasionally post a half assed sob story/apology and yet another promise to do better

 

[darealman]

The people that tell MITY things like "take as long as you need" are giving them a blank check to fuck around as much as they want just as long as they occasionally post a half assed sob story/apology and yet another promise to do better

It's their money and they choose to whatever they want with it, there's not a single comment on MITY's latest post about someone being disappointed. How come the ones that pay don't care about delays and the ones who pirate the game care the most? Mindblowing to me.

 

[reaper-kun]

The people that tell MITY things like "take as long as you need" are giving them a blank check to fuck around as much as they want just as long as they occasionally post a half assed sob story/apology and yet another promise to do better

Agreed. A have strong disappointment for guys who support milking by that words. They pretend to looking cool but in fact they just support creator's laziness and greed.

 

[WOMANpukumaru]

I won't apologise because I don't regret what I said, it was aimed at people with a similar belief as you that "It's ok if its a week or two late because it's good". I don't find it all right to consistently delay something you promised within a time frame. If you miss a dead line once or twice that's fine. But when you come back from a 4 month gap of absolutely no content and then continue to delay and skip months from that point on is where I have the problem. I could've phrased it better however but I'm frustrated by how passive people seem to be especially when this problem has existed for over a year. F95 is flooded with projects that never make it past 0.1 so people don't care for those, the other projects I can think of that I would rank better than 4ET is Taffy Tales and maybe even Summertime Saga and they're at least honest about expectations to an extent. It takes a while for them but they never promise a monthly release and they don't string people along with update posts promising they're doing their best to get it out in time.

MITY's Patreon earns something like 20k a month, they're missing this months release but they still get paid for this month. Then they'll release this months update in June and still get paid for June while "June's update" comes out in July. Now imagine if I went to work, didn't do anything for a month, still got paid and then did that month's work the next month.

Now you’re kinda repeating my points about not making promises like this. I don’t know why you’re argujng with me

 

[darkgunner079]

It's their money and they choose to whatever they want with it, there's not a single comment on MITY's latest post about someone being disappointed. How come the ones that pay don't care about delays and the ones who pirate the game care the most? Mindblowing to me.

I'm a patron of theirs, actually (probably pledging more than you, but thats beside the point). Most of the people that comment on their patron will tell them to take all the time they need no matter what they said, just short of "We aren't going to work on the game anymore but we still want your money"

You're absolutely right that people can do with their money as they please, just as people are free to criticize what is an easily observable pattern of delays and empty excuses.

This game is arguably one of the best of its kind and that's let them build up quite a bit of good faith with fans of the game but over the past year or so its become clear that, for one reason or another they've realized that they can get away with pretty much anything because people like this game so much that they're much more lenient than perhaps they should be. And that kind of good faith can be easily exploited so long as they make a post alluding to some vague emotional/mental issues and "we're sorry and we'll do better in the future" posts.

I want to continue to support this game but I don't think it's unreasonable to point out that almost every build nowadays is delayed and the reasons given indicate a problem that they just aren't fixing

 

[IdarksoulsI]

I won't apologise because I don't regret what I said, it was aimed at people with a similar belief as you that "It's ok if its a week or two late because it's good". I don't find it all right to consistently delay something you promised within a time frame. If you miss a dead line once or twice that's fine. But when you come back from a 4 month gap of absolutely no content and then continue to delay and skip months from that point on is where I have the problem.

There never was a 4 month gap of absolutely no content.

I could've phrased it better however but I'm frustrated by how passive people seem to be especially when this problem has existed for over a year. F95 is flooded with projects that never make it past 0.1 so people don't care for those, the other projects I can think of that I would rank better than 4ET is Taffy Tales and maybe even Summertime Saga and they're at least honest about expectations to an extent. It takes a while for them but they never promise a monthly release...

Show me a quote where they promise a certain release date.

... and they don't string people along with update posts promising they're doing their best to get it out in time.

So you want them to stay silent if something has changed?

MITY's Patreon earns something like 20k a month, they're missing this months release but they still get paid for this month. Then they'll release this months update in June and still get paid for June while "June's update" comes out in July. Now imagine if I went to work, didn't do anything for a month, still got paid and then did that month's work the next month.

They never done 'nothing'.

Frankly, reading your post I can only shake my head in disbelieve about how far off from the actual situation you are. It seems you know nothing about how they develop the game, how they communicate with their supporters and how much they work every month to deliver something we all can enjoy.

The last part of a book always took longer, the scenes got longer, the animations better. It's inevitable developing times will grow. Every person that thinks they could do better and faster I invite to do so.

 

[WOMANpukumaru]

Okay. I may have started a shit storm unintentionally. Or maybe I walked into an already ongoing fire? Either way I apoarently need to exit.

 

[RebelliousKnightMordred]

There never was a 4 month gap of absolutely no content.

Show me a quote where they promise a certain release date.

So you want them to stay silent if something has changed?

They never done 'nothing'.

Frankly, reading your post I can only shake my head in disbelieve about how far off from the actual situation you are. It seems you know nothing about how they develop the game, how they communicate with their supporters and how much they work every month to deliver something we all can enjoy.

The last part of a book always took longer, the scenes got longer, the animations better. It's inevitable developing times will grow. Every person that thinks they could do better and faster I invite to do so.

Are you really going to tell me there was no huge gap with no content when I was one of the many people waiting through it. If not four months it was a few days short of it but I won't be lied to.

As for the promises, if they promised nothing why are they making a huge deal about being disappointed about not making this months release? Why are they promising all this stuff for their patrons like the new build in their DMs? Obviously they had gotten everyones expectations that there would be a release this month and that's the promise.

You'll go to the end of the earth's to defend them but refuse to hear the other side out. Instead of making posts that are nothing more than weak excuses I expect to see results from the work they promise they're putting into the game. Yet when it comes time to release they delay it. So, what exactly are they doing? What happens from the last release to the newest one? We've already seen a delay in quality from the peak of their releases to now. You're lying to yourself and everybody else around if you say there isn't something going on here with the releases.

Shake your head all you want I don't care what you say about me or claim to know about me. I'll continue to call out this nonsense I'm witnessing and I'll continue to tell people that they're right to be outraged by constantly being lied to.

 

[RebelliousKnightMordred]

Okay. I may have started a shit storm unintentionally. Or maybe I walked into an already ongoing fire? Either way I apoarently need to exit.

Nothing is unintentional in this world. No matter how small the action it'll always have consequences.

 

[baneini]

Nazis lose ww2 -> European companies facilities are destroyed leaving american puritans to become the driver of global economy. US proliferates anti-porn laws trough payment processors that prevent flourishing of porn game publishers who could fund dev studios to make a game that is released feature complete.
Instead devs survive only on crowd funded, donation based service like patreon which incentives monthly payments to gain access and influence on ongoing unfinished game projects.

Normally the publisher would manage risk, demand creative control, oversee the developers to make sure they fulfill their obligations to make their money back but in the crowdfunded donation model there no such option. The donation money is just that, money that was donated and the consumers have no rights to anything and the receiver of the donation has zero obligations.
The consumers who don't realize they're entitled to nothing then complain about their imaginary entitlements not being met and since this state is unchanging they'll repeatedly make exactly same arguments every time this happens.

What they're actually saying is they wanted Hitler to win.

 

[RebelliousKnightMordred]

Nazis lose ww2 -> European companies facilities are destroyed leaving american puritans to become the driver of global economy. US proliferates anti-porn laws trough payment processors that prevent flourishing of porn game publishers who could fund dev studios to make a game that is released feature complete.
Instead devs survive only on crowd funded, donation based service like patreon which incentives monthly payments to gain access and influence on ongoing unfinished game projects.

Normally the publisher would manage risk, demand creative control, oversee the developers to make sure they fulfill their obligations to make their money back but in the crowdfunded donation model there no such option. The donation money is just that, money that was donated and the consumers have no rights to anything and the receiver of the donation has zero obligations.
The consumers who don't realize they're entitled to nothing then complain about their imaginary entitlements not being met and since this state is unchanging they'll repeatedly make exactly same arguments every time this happens.

What they're actually saying is they wanted Hitler to win.

I hope to God you're joking and I haven't had any belief in him for well over a decade. A donation would be managed differently on a different website but you do realise how Patreon works right? It's not a site used to give donations to someone you want to help out it's a platform for crowd-funded content. Otherwise there would be no tier system. Each amount of payment has an incentive attached to it that's what people are paying for, not "donating". They're paying for something to be delivered it's why it's a monthly pledge.

 

[reaper-kun]

What they're actually saying is they wanted Hitler to win.

You're really good. Suggest to try yourself in the politics.

Speak seriously, any disappointment will make when creator break release plan and start to milking patrons. As you can see, in 1 - 3 ch. MITY doing well and pull out releases in time. No one will been angry. Since chapter 4 they don't have inspiration or ideas or something... and doing his work in half quality in front of previous chapters. This is reason of wide disappointment of patrons. They just tired and we all can see this. This situation is one part in chain of mistakes and creative crisis.

 

[FlipFish]

 

[IdarksoulsI]

Are you really going to tell me there was no huge gap with no content when I was one of the many people waiting through it. If not four months it was a few days short of it but I won't be lied to.

As for the promises, if they promised nothing why are they making a huge deal about being disappointed about not making this months release? Why are they promising all this stuff for their patrons like the new build in their DMs? Obviously they had gotten everyones expectations that there would be a release this month and that's the promise.

You'll go to the end of the earth's to defend them but refuse to hear the other side out. Instead of making posts that are nothing more than weak excuses I expect to see results from the work they promise they're putting into the game. Yet when it comes time to release they delay it. So, what exactly are they doing? What happens from the last release to the newest one? We've already seen a delay in quality from the peak of their releases to now. You're lying to yourself and everybody else around if you say there isn't something going on here with the releases.

Shake your head all you want I don't care what you say about me or claim to know about me. I'll continue to call out this nonsense I'm witnessing and I'll continue to tell people that they're right to be outraged by constantly being lied to.

1. I don't shake my head because of you (I would never do that) but because of your opinion this game should be the target for such a discussion. It's the last game in this forum I would be mad at because of delays.
2. When the coder had it's burn out the artist made 2 mini games on his own. I wouldn't call that nothing.
3. They're not eye to eye on how bad/important exact release dates should be given. They're not a company, just two dudes deciding to make a game, not exactly knowing how to do it.
4. Some may like book 4, some may not but I doubt anyone could argue about the amount of content it has. The card game was a failure but I don't blame them to try something new.
5. I can't know if Mity(artist) ever lied to me but I don't fell like he did. I'd say he's a very honest, hard working guy who is under a lot of pressure because people want their porn as fast as possible.

 

[Exokip]

View attachment 676587

Me, reading this thread.

4. Some may like book 4, some may not but I doubt anyone could argue about the amount of content it has. The card game was a failure but I don't blame them to try something new.

This part I will respond to though... Book 4, when compared with the slave route of books 2 and 3, is crap.

There's entirely too much focus on random side girls that mean nothing, and sooooo fucking little actual Korra content.

I wanted her as broken and manipulated as Azula was, or as taken advantage of as Toph was. Instead, she's still the same attitude riddled brat, but now you can cum on her feet when you want... That's crap.

Asami also should have been handled sooo differently than she was.

Let me throat fuck Korra as punishment for her attitude. Let me choose to be downright vile to her all so she can learn Airbending, and leave Amon out of it.

She should have lost her virginity to the MC, not to the MC dressed as Amon. Its just all shit.

 

[WOMANpukumaru]

Nothing is unintentional in this world. No matter how small the action it'll always have consequences.

...

...on second thought perhaps I’m not the problem here. May have jumped the gun on that call

 

[pav0nine]

I'd rather wait two months for a new update and having a good ending than an qualitatively below-average ending. You're not obliged to support the devs, though I seriously doubt that the majority of users discussing here is pecuniarily supporting the devs.
For my part, I'm just glad that I can play such a great game without paying a shit. Hope y'all have a great evening.

 

[Master of Desaster]

Me, reading this thread.






This part I will respond to though... Book 4, when compared with the slave route of books 2 and 3, is crap.

There's entirely too much focus on random side girls that mean nothing, and sooooo fucking little actual Korra content.

I wanted her as broken and manipulated as Azula was, or as taken advantage of as Toph was. Instead, she's still the same attitude riddled brat, but now you can cum on her feet when you want... That's crap.

Asami also should have been handled sooo differently than she was.

Let me throat fuck Korra as punishment for her attitude. Let me choose to be downright vile to her all so she can learn Airbending, and leave Amon out of it.

She should have lost her virginity to the MC, not to the MC dressed as Amon. Its just all shit.

I agree that there's too much story in the Korra section, but it's not shit.

 

[FriendlyBear12]

Show me a quote where they promise a certain release date.

They've had this listed in their 5$ tier for years but was recently removed. 1 month has always been the norm, this delay shit is new and that's why they had to remove the promise.