DA22

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I mean sure.
It's easy to judge how people navigate truly toxic relationships if you've never experienced one yourself, though.
That shows you know nothing about my life amigo. :p The only way to stop it was changing myself though and taking responsibility for my own role in it. Not by blaming the world I had become a victim and keep doing the same things.
 
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Sartain

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That shows you know nothing about my life amigo. :p The only way to stop it was changing myself though and taking responsibility for my own role in it. Not by blaming the world I had become a victim and keep doing the same things.
Why would I know anything about your life?
Thing is though, Nicki hasn't gotten to that point yet. Would you have found it fair or reasonable if people called you a simpering cuckold or whatever relevant to your personal situation before you managed to extricate yourself from it?

Obviously Nicki is just some code in a magic box, but the culture of victim-blaming is very real in here
 

Sartain

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That's the flip-side of Protagonist-Centered Morality. There is a very real and demonstrable phenomenon where an audience is more sympathetic to the audience P.O.V character than they might otherwise be to the same actions or circumstances of other characters. One person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. One persons cautious compromises are another persons obvious terrible mistakes; and everybody judges each other with the full force of hindsight.

Nicki's entire existence is colored through the lens of Guy, and specifically his unreciprocated desire for her as more than a friend. The audience never gets to see inside Nicki's head, we're never made aware of her wants, needs, desires, or her thought process. Everything the audience sees is seen through the eyes of Guy. All we know of Nicki and her dipshit boyfriend are what Guy thinks he knows. Now I don't think NeonGhosts is necessarily out to make Guy an unreliable narrator, but you have to accept that Guy isn't omniscient or infallible. He is human, meaning he is subject to misremembering his misperceptions. There could be (indeed there almost certainly would need to be) things about Nicki's ex-boyfriend that she found charming, appealing, or endearing, in ways that we'll simply never see from Guy's perspective.

Also, anyone getting on Nicki's case because she's not a perfectly rational actor needs to get the fuck out of town (this is not directed at lorddarkam, but more so the thread in general based on what I've seen before). Nobody is a perfectly rational actor. Nobody. Perfectly rational actors are the wet-dreams of Libertarian thought experiments, they do not exist in observable reality. Humans are piles of swarming emotions, and one of the things most all humans are extraordinarily skilled at is post-hoc rationalization of emotional decisions.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Friends In Need is the visual-novel equivalent of the of the quote "You Can Easily Judge the Character of a Man by How He Treats Those Who Can Do Nothing for Him". Sure, Nicki has made some dumb mistakes. Mistakes that Guy would have preferred she hadn't made. But made them she did. So when Nicki arrives on Guy's doorstep as an unrecognizable mess with nothing to her name but the wet clothes on her back, how Guy reacts speaks to the core of his character (and by extension, that of the audience, since this is a choose-your-own-adventure visual novel).

Indignation? Retribution? Extorsion? Antipathy? Concern? Empathy?

Nicki can do nothing. She is effectively powerless here, and they both know it. It is a power dynamic that continues to loom over their interactions from that point going forward. She knows in her bones that at any second, Guy could just pull a repeat performance of her ex-boyfriend, or the sugar-daddy photographer, or the porn studio loan shark. Now as the audience, that probably would never even cross most of our minds; the thought of subjecting Nicki to that abuse yet again. Protagonist-Centered Morality striking with a vengeance. But depending on the path taken through the game, Guy may have already come close. Even if he hadn't, it's smart writing and characterization on NeonGhosts' part that Nicki acts the way that she does.

Love her or hate her, Nicki is a character. Polarizing? Sure, but so are people. But how a person reacts to her says more about them than it does Nicki herself. But the one thing I think we can all agree on is this; Nicki isn't boring.
Amen.

Funny thing, I mostly play dark paths in most (well-written) games but Nicki is so authentic I don't really have it in me, it's too close to reality compared to most of the other stuff even though obviously anything on the dark path would be horrible to do in real life
 

Dark Silence

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Really roundabout way of saying that you think women are gullible and helpless. Not a great look.
I don't think that's what he's saying. I could be wrong though. I look at it that there are a percentage, small perhaps, of people, male and female, who are gullible and helpless.
 
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DA22

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Why would I know anything about your life?
Thing is though, Nicki hasn't gotten to that point yet. Would you have found it fair or reasonable if people called you a simpering cuckold or whatever relevant to your personal situation before you managed to extricate yourself from it?

Obviously Nicki is just some code in a magic box, but the culture of victim-blaming is very real in here
Lol you think that if you date a guy that treats everyone around him like shit, then makes you partly responsible for a gambling debt, willingly pimps you out and then gets you in debt by forging your signature not red flags ...... Story does not really add if he also alienated her from all or most of her former friends so will not add that one. Then him behaving as an asshole to all of them likely would be enough over time anyway. :p

Yeah if you read my first remark, you would see I said that way MC as setup if Nicky had chosen him before he got his money the game would have been very short. You would also have seen I gave kudos to Neon for fact he balanced Nicky well enough that she was not just bad or a complete victim, but there was more to her that was also likable. Please keep the slut for yourself cause I never said she was one or is one. Someone that made wrong decisions though, for sure.

Edit: I should hope you know nothing about my life, you were the one though that presumed I had not gone through something like that. Unfortunately that is not true. I have been there and survived.
 
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EvolutionKills

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Amen.

Funny thing, I mostly play dark paths in most (well-written) games but Nicki is so authentic I don't really have it in me, it's too close to reality compared to most of the other stuff even though obviously anything on the dark path would be horrible to do in real life
I actually prefer the middle-ground path. Abusing the power dynamic a tad, but because it leads to kinkier outcomes that seemingly everyone enjoys. It allows me to step outside of myself, be and act in ways that I would never in real life; in the ways that a lot of fiction does. Would I myself extort sex from Nicki when she first asked for help, or make a move on Ashe in the alleyway? FUCK NO! But even then, NeonGhosts allows for various shades of grey to play out. Talking dirty to Nicki and making her answer her phone when her boyfriend calls mid-coitus? Fucking hot as hell, and you can navigate that scene in such a way that she appears to have enjoyed herself (keeping in mind that might not actually be the case, but we're limited to Guy's perspective). But when Nicki is cleaning herself up in the bathroom after she comes back with the tattoos? That's just crosses the line from something you could write off as mutually beneficial adulterous sex-work, to a much more obvious instance of abuse of the power dynamic and taking advantage of her trauma. The former is in the fun and kinky grey zone, the later is a clear breach of ethical boundaries I'm just not comfortable crossing. That the narrative can both make me invested enough to so strongly self-insert my own ethical framework and put it to the test, speaks to it's strength.
 

Sartain

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I actually prefer the middle-ground path. Abusing the power dynamic a tad, but because it leads to kinkier outcomes that seemingly everyone enjoys. It allows me to step outside of myself, be and act in ways that I would never in real life; in the ways that a lot of fiction does. Would I myself extort sex from Nicki when she first asked for help, or make a move on Ashe in the alleyway? FUCK NO! But even then, NeonGhosts allows for various shades of grey to play out. Talking dirty to Nicki and making her answer her phone when her boyfriend calls mid-coitus? Fucking hot as hell, and you can navigate that scene in such a way that she appears to have enjoyed herself (keeping in mind that might not actually be the case, but we're limited to Guy's perspective). But when Nicki is cleaning herself up in the bathroom after she comes back with the tattoos? That's just crosses the line from something you could write off as mutually beneficial adulterous sex-work, to a much more obvious instance of abuse of the power dynamic and taking advantage of her trauma. The former is in the fun and kinky grey zone, the later is a clear breach of ethical boundaries I'm just not comfortable crossing. That the narrative can both make me invested enough to so strongly self-insert my own ethical framework and put it to the test, speaks to it's strength.
Yeah that's pretty much exactly how I roll too :D
 
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Sartain

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I don't think that's what he's saying. I could be wrong though. I look at it that there are a percentage, small perhaps, of people, male and female, who are gullible and helpless.
As I see it, it's a bit like murder. We all *think* we're not that kind of person, that we're better, but under pressure that's not the reality at all.
 
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DrHizz

Formerly 'whizwart'
Apr 11, 2022
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Not sure if anyone gave a real explanation, so I will just in case. Neon couldn't keep the game on Patreon under some of the newer rule changes, but he didn't want to bail on the platform, so they started making 2 versions of the game. A "clean" version for Patreon called Friends Indeed, and the regular version which is released via Subscribstar (still need the taboo patch to get full access).
 

HPYY

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Not sure if anyone gave a real explanation, so I will just in case. Neon couldn't keep the game on Patreon under some of the newer rule changes, but he didn't want to bail on the platform, so they started making 2 versions of the game. A "clean" version for Patreon called Friends Indeed, and the regular version which is released via Subscribstar (still need the taboo patch to get full access).
whats full access have?
 

DrHizz

Formerly 'whizwart'
Apr 11, 2022
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Wh

whats full access have?
Much more hardcore stuff than the base game. More brutal actions, incest fantasies, etc. If you don't mind spoilers, the walk-though does a great job noting what the patch adds.
 
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Dr.Slime

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So now for the FA game we have here (which is not vanilla) is 0.4, The new one 0.55 is vanilla version.
So how long for the Brutal most wanted version to come out?
 
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HPYY

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So many girls in the main page game picture but we haven't met or had scenes with them all right? That pink haired girl flexing her biceps sure could use some brutality hehehe
 

HPYY

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Much more hardcore stuff than the base game. More brutal actions, incest fantasies, etc. If you don't mind spoilers, the walk-though does a great job noting what the patch adds.
thanks, but which should I download to get the new content? Is it that vanilla version ch 8 v0.55? Does it have the brutal scenes? I normally download the first one
 
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