VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch.10 v0.71] [NeonGhosts]

[TrixRabbit]

That would be using him for his money. Nothing's wrong with it but Nikki's not just hanging around guy just because he's her friend. Even when guy treats her like shit she comes back to him. Why? Cuz she needs his financial assistance.

And she wouldn't be fucking with him if he didn't run the restaurant.

You called him a victim, but I have said nothing like that.

Like I said, whatever helps you sleep better dude.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Like I said, whatever helps you sleep better dude.

You can say that as many times as you like; it doesn't make you sound any cleverer.

 

[Dessolos]

That would be using him for his money. Nothing's wrong with it but Nikki's not just hanging around guy just because he's her friend. Even when guy treats her like shit she comes back to him. Why? Cuz she needs his financial assistance.

And she wouldn't be fucking with him if he didn't run the restaurant.

You called him a victim, but I have said nothing like that.

I still disagree she didn't come back for financial assistance but just for a place to stay for a few days and it wasn't even intentional she just happened to be in nearby when she was running away from the porno shoot. The financial assistance was all Guy's idea. I just do not see it as using him at all when it come from a job and it wasn't even her idea to begin with. Even more so as Nicki wanted to move out to not take advantage of him , tho I think guy might of paid for a few months of the apartment but that sounded more like he being a nice guy to me I don't think she asked him to do that.

 

[TrixRabbit]

You can say that as many times as you like; it doesn't make you sound any cleverer.

Not aiming for clever, just kinda sad for you.

 

[Joshy92]

What the fuck are people smoking to accuse the girls of only being with Guy because of his money? Seriously look at any of the cast besides Isabella that we have spent time with none of them come off like that in the slightest.

Probably why I'm so interested in battling Isabella actually. It'll be epic.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Not aiming for clever, just kinda sad for you.

No need to be sad for me, unlike you, the opinion of others don't bother me.

What the fuck are people smoking to accuse the girls of only being with Guy because of his money? Seriously look at any of the cast besides Isabella that we have spent time with none of them come off like that in the slightest.

Probably why I'm so interested in battling Isabella actually. It'll be epic.

Joshy you know me better than that. I didn't say they're with him only cuz of his money, I was saying that money is what got him in the door. But yes his personality is what kept them there

 

[cooldevo]

Joshy you know me better than that. I didn't say they're with him only cuz of his money, I was saying that money is what got him in the door. But yes his personality is what kept them there

How long did Nikki know Guy before he got his money, when they worked in the shop together? I don't recall offhand if it was indicated. Weren't they near best-friends at the time? At least that's the impression I got when they goof off and dance in the store. That was all way before the money, if anything he says he was virtually bankrupt at that time and yet she was still there.

Sure he has money which would certainly help, but they also had a 'deep' relationship before Guy got his money and left after being annoyed with her boyfriend.

Unless I'm really mis-remembering the story... I'll have to go play through it again now I think.

 

[rockety1245]

Guy lucking out and becoming a millionaire is the inciting incident. Without the money, there wouldn't even be an opportunity for Guy to meet most of the girls, irrespective of their supposed intentions. Heck, even Nicki wouldn't be in this situation if the billionaire didn't promote the meme coin Guy invested in.

While I don't agree that most of the LIs are there only for the money (Depending on your choices, Guy is the one that offers it first), the dark path really does show that as long as you don't push too far most of them will put up with it (Exploited relationship).

I don't really care about the LIs motivation to wanting to have a relationship with Guy. What interests me more is how we (the player) act on it.

 

[Silwith]

How long did Nikki know Guy before he got his money, when they worked in the shop together? I don't recall offhand if it was indicated. Weren't they near best-friends at the time? At least that's the impression I got when they goof off and dance in the store. That was all way before the money, if anything he says he was virtually bankrupt at that time and yet she was still there.

Sure he has money which would certainly help, but they also had a 'deep' relationship before Guy got his money and left after being annoyed with her boyfriend.

Unless I'm really mis-remembering the story... I'll have to go play through it again now I think.

She was... as a FRIEND... she also did very much fuck another guy instead of Guy (haha) at that time tho... so that isn't really a good argument here
Personally I don't think she is only there for the money now, but that argument just doesn't work well, because Nikki is specifically one LI that got herself fucked by a douchebag when Guy didn't have money and then came around when he had it

 

[kikomascado]

I think people are mistaking getting closer because of something and staying close because of that same thing.
Guy is rich now, and his habits and such changed drastically from before getting the money, so of course he wouldn't know almost all of these people if he didn't had his fortune.
But one thing is they meeting Guy because of it, other completely different is they using Guy for his money.

 

[cooldevo]

She was... as a FRIEND... she also did very much fuck another guy instead of Guy (haha) at that time tho... so that isn't really a good argument here
Personally I don't think she is only there for the money now, but that argument just doesn't work well, because Nikki is specifically one LI that got herself fucked by a douchebag when Guy didn't have money and then came around when he had it

Yes! Although she was dating that douchebag for some time at the store, and even after Guy left the store. So you aren't entirely incorrect.

But then when she shows up again, she doesn't ask for money just a place to stay for a couple of days to get her feet under her.

As she recounts her story, she regrets being with the douchebag at all. Both Nikki and Guy admit they had feelings for each other, but were too nervous to say anything.

She regrets she took the $20k and didn't stay with Guy, even though, on the nicer path, you gave her orgasms that made her teeth ache (am I remembering that correctly?)

A series of bad decisions, that led to where things are now. So yeah, I guess it's a bit of a slanted toss-up. What did she see in the douchebag? I guess we'll never know other than what we've seen in the game... which to me was never much. *shrug*

 

[kikomascado]

What did she see in the douchebag? I guess we'll never know other than what we've seen in the game... which to me was never much. *shrug*

I've seen people that dated others just because the other person asked them to, simply as that, and so they agreed to see how it would go, some even developing feelings for some time.
And maybe, even though the other person in this case was a dipshit, she felt obliged to help him as much as she could, since he was her boyfriend.
Weird, and probably also extremely dumb, but they didn't seem very mature on the game's prologue, so I'd guess this behaviour is understandable...

 

[Joshy92]

Our opinions could all change once the new chapter one is out or at least give us more info.

 

[NeonGhosts]

It's funny because I've seen people who complain this game doesn't give enough choice, but what they basically want is a life simulator that wouldn't serve the story or the author's sanity for that matter, as if this game isn't already challenging to execute. So, people can go too far in that respect as well.

I think if people try to look at this VN as a developing story that has drama and a vulnerable protagonist that is not necessarily a reflection of the player's thoughts and desires at all times, but his own character, things make more sense. The drug den, for example, is moving the story along and introducing an antagonist that was planned from the start, it's not a middle finger to the player like some interpreted it. The Viola situation, if you look at it from the perspective of "how would x action move her and the MC's story along, and would it be satisfying?" I'm sure we'll see her situation greatly improved eventually, but moving it along instantly, while a nice fantasy, would cancel out a lot of interesting developments (and creepy ones too, for certain other routes..) along that arc.

I think people are just used to typical VNs where the story clearly serves the erotic fantasies, which is why they usually end up clunky, inconsistent, and just not compelling. This game is the opposite of that where the fantasies serve the story and its characters, which is honestly the main reason why the scenes are infinitely more satisfying.

Oh hey, this speaks to a revelation I had early on in the whole dev process. For a while, I was really struggling to make the story compelling, while basically making Guy a cipher. And it didn't take me too long to realize that just wouldn't work for me. Sometime around Chapter 4, I decided to switch tacks and approach Guy less like a blank slate, and more like a character we just happen to steer. It's the difference between playing Fido in GTA3, versus Tommy Vercetti in GTA: Vice City. The former is an entirely blank slate that the player can project themselves onto, while the latter is a multidimensional character that has his own wants, needs, etc.

These days, I try to split the difference a bit by having Guy be his own character, but staying out of his head a bit, so the player can interpret his words and actions how they want.

I honestly think that the trend of blank, faceless 'John Smith' protagonists, is part of why I soured on the western AVN genre a bit. It's a game format that's almost entirely driven by dialogue. So, when you have a hero who really has no personality, the dialogue will always fall a bit flat. In a format like an RPG or even a sandbox game, I think you can get away with that kind of hero, because most of the gameplay is spent doing other things - fighting, exploring, etc. And in the case of an RPG, you usually have party members/NPCs that carry the bulk of the story/dialogue on their backs, and the player only occasionally interjects with a broad morality-by-dialogue check.

"Oh no, they're slaughtering the villagers!"

• "This won't stand! To arms!"
• "It's unfortunate, but it's not our fight."
• "We'll save them, but I expect a reward."
• "Great, let's wait for them to finish fighting and kill whoever's left!"

I sometimes wonder if this is why a game like Bad Bobby has endured and had several remakes, despite being kind of crude in its execution (by today's standards). In a genre defined by bland, faceless heroes, Bobby is an extremely memorable character.

 

[kikomascado]

Oh hey, this speaks to a revelation I had early on in the whole dev process. For a while, I was really struggling to make the story compelling, while basically making Guy a cipher. And it didn't take me too long to realize that just wouldn't work for me. Sometime around Chapter 4, I decided to switch tacks and approach Guy less like a blank slate, and more like a character we just happen to steer. It's the difference between playing Fido in GTA3, versus Tommy Vercetti in GTA: Vice City. The former is an entirely blank slate that the player can project themselves onto, while the latter is a multidimensional character that has his own wants, needs, etc.

These days, I try to split the difference a bit by having Guy be his own character, but staying out of his head a bit, so the player can interpret his words and actions how they want.

I honestly think that the trend of blank, faceless 'John Smith' protagonists, is part of why I soured on the western AVN genre a bit. It's a game format that's almost entirely driven by dialogue. So, when you have a hero who really has no personality, the dialogue will always fall a bit flat. In a format like an RPG or even a sandbox game, I think you can get away with that kind of hero, because most of the gameplay is spent doing other things - fighting, exploring, etc. And in the case of an RPG, you usually have party members/NPCs that carry the bulk of the story/dialogue on their backs, and the player only occasionally interjects with a broad morality-by-dialogue check.

"Oh no, they're slaughtering the villagers!"

• "This won't stand! To arms!"
• "It's unfortunate, but it's not our fight."
• "We'll save them, but I expect a reward."
• "Great, let's wait for them to finish fighting and kill whoever's left!"

I sometimes wonder if this is why a game like Bad Bobby has endured and had several remakes, despite being kind of crude in its execution (by today's standards). In a genre defined by bland, faceless heroes, Bobby is an extremely memorable character.

And I thank you for that.
I like main characters with their own name and behaviour, that I just happen to influence and interact with some stuff.
I never self inserted in any of this games, I enjoy then just like I enjoy a movie or such.
I've always hated those JRPGs that the protagonist is silent and have little to no personality (one of my biggest complaints about Persona 5, for example).
Even worse when they use a headless/faceless protagonist on those adult games for the players to imagine is themselves. I fucking hate that. Hahaha

 

[cooldevo]

And I thank you for that.
I like main characters with their own name and behaviour, that I just happen to influence and interact with some stuff.
I never self inserted in any of this games, I enjoy then just like I enjoy a movie or such.
I've always hated those JRPGs that the protagonist is silent and have little to no personality (one of my biggest complaints about Persona 5, for example).
Even worse when they use a headless/faceless protagonist on those adult games for the players to imagine is themselves. I fucking hate that. Hahaha

To me, the difference is like a roller coaster and a sandbox. I absolutely love roller coasters, but I am not the one making the fun I'm experiencing the fun the engineers built around the rails. Whereas in a sandbox, it's a complete blank slate that I show up with my toys and build the way I want.

Both are fantastic experiences. Some people love roller coasters and hate sandboxes, and other vice versa. I have a soft spot for both, when they play to their respective strengths.

I like the balance struck here as a good hybrid. There are rails to experience and also the freedom to build how the character is shaped (exploitative, nice, romantic, etc.) over the duration of the game.

 

[S-G-H]

i feel like everything become complicated and a lot of thing doesn't make sens like for example even if Risa have 0 intelligence will not take you to this kind of place unprepared to save a girl that doesn't make sens at all and i think it would be a better idea to give the protagonist the option to hire security service and buy guns if the game will take this new kind of events i don't thing training in the gym with some girl will give the protagonist any kind of power and of course some new allies in the police will make more balance, even the protagonist lawyer approach is weird and doesn't help at all.

 

[Pixillin']

i feel like everything become complicated and a lot of thing doesn't make sens like for example even if Risa have 0 intelligence will not take you to this kind of place unprepared to save a girl that doesn't make sens at all and i think it would be a better idea to give the protagonist the option to hire security service and buy guns if the game will take this new kind of events i don't thing training in the gym with some girl will give the protagonist any kind of power and of course some new allies in the police will make more balance, even the protagonist lawyer approach is weird and doesn't help at all.

Yeah, that has come up before. Apparently the Dev doesn't really want MC having an army to be part of the story. Personally, I suspect that, although she doesn't know it, Risa's dad is behind it all - the rape/porn ring, the drug dealing ... all of it and that's why he wants to scare MC off.

 

[HiP1]

Massive update
I thought it was supposed to be a small update after the big chapter 9 we got. but chapter 10 seems larger than ch9.
and the branching is insane... at least on par with Ashe's date, if not more.

and the most insane is that we are still in the same 24 hours after Ashe's date. that's really a long day

proofreading let more errors through this time, though.

Mason being a computer wizard a nice surprise. though, being homeless might have make his skills rusty and outdated. MC might need to set him up with a good rig and some up-to-date material.

aren't we supposed to get some points for telling the truth to Viola about Gabby and MC ? and for telling Mason not to pretend to be a girl outside and just be himself ?
and subtly threatening Madison like that should have added a dark point to MC, I think.

I'm guessing Dash works for Lucien ?
we already know Sapphire most likely does. with Cherry/Patricia already trapped, Lucien only needs Pepper to complete the set ?
we can bet Ryan works for Lucien too.
MC going up against Lucien with so many weaknesses around him will be tough. And Cole isn't in any shape to go up against Markus now

Ashe and Risa to a small degree but that's because I feel like they like rougher sex.

I don't think Risa likes rough sex. It feels more like she is used to it because of how she was treated by her previous partners. she enjoyed it a lot when she taught the doctor, she said it was sweet too.
she was probably treated as a slut because of her addict past, and all the surgery she were forced to do.

and Ashe just has a little kink to spice things, she has very clear limits and boundaries that are really far from real rough sex and BDSM.

I agree. Fortunately, I think the most recent scene with Viola - at least on the good route - is a hint that MC is going to help her a lot ... "I know you don't believe in heroes, but I know a princess when I see one." I want to get her out of her current apartment (and away from Greasy McLandlord), into a better place, get some help for her mom, and pay for her to keep going to school (and maybe some vocal lessons as well).

for now, the story hasn't tapped at all into her music.
but if everything comes together, MC can have a bit of her music in the movie he will be investing in. and also have her perform at the renovated library of the Barrons.

While I agree Nicki is the most Loyal. I honestly believe Risa , Ashe , maybe Pepper would also be extremely loyal without the money if he got to know them beforehand

yeah Nicki is loyal with or without the money.

Pepper is not loyal to MC, for now, beyond just the polite level, if at all.

Ashe would never even give MC a second look without the money. She most likely gets tons of attention otherwise, she doesn't need a poor overworked middle aged guy. the fact that MC is a down to earth nice guy despite being rich kept her interested beyond the first hello, but the very fact that he is rich is what got her interest in the first place. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing. it's just a fact.

and finally, you know I really like Risa, but here is no doubt in my mind, that she would never have gotten that close to MC without his money. she might like the fact that he is a good guy, but it's the influence that comes with his money that she needed. she will stay loyal if MC promises to help her, but she wouldn't bother getting to know MC if he was still just an employee in that convenient store.

I mean Risa is interested in everything but money, it was never the reason she decided to get close with MC in the 1st place. She needed his help with Lucien.

Risa is from a rich family, yes, her father keeps her on a short leash, but I don't think she needs more than she has, take a look for example at her room, it's a fucking spartan style room - only stuff that is really necessary.

Risa doesn't need money, but she needed MC to be rich and famous. because then he is influential enough to raise awareness on the Lucien issue. she lacked credibility, and that's what she needed from him. and without money, MC has zero credibility.

and to actually take down Lucien and his organization, MC will need tons of financial resources. and tons of free time. He wouldn't be able to take on that monumental task if he had a minimum wage job that cannibalized all his time. Risa *does* need MC to be rich.

Honestly I think she is almost as loyal as Nicki but yeah I agree with this. Honestly I think the MC cares for money more than Risa does if im being honest haha. All she wants is help , someone that will actually love her and freedom. I think if she had just enough money to get by she be fine with it. She doesn't seem like she tries to live a rich lifestyle that is all her father.

once MC promised to help her, yeah, Risa's loyalty skyrockets. but even if she doesn't *want* money, or his money, she still cares a lot that he does have lots of disposable income.
before being restricted by her father because of all her antics, Risa *did* enjoy a lavish lifestyle, riding on her family's money and influence. even if life taught her better afterwards and she might be ok with a "normal" life, I don't think she would reject a chance at living a rich life given the choice.

Good convos, interesting reads

I agree with Joshy & Pix, I don't think money is their primary reason for being with Guy. They all have messes in their lives that are either expensive or hard work or just damn dangerous to clean up, and most dudes just wouldn't be up to the task. That's partly why it's so fun living the fantasy of being in Guy's shoes, he stands out as the Arthurian big damn hero who's gonna take the sword out of that freakin' stone.

Except for Nicki, money *is* the reason for being with him in the first place. BUT money is not the primary reason they stay with him.
but like all relationships in life, you need something to make the encounter happen and move it along more than just "hello". after the encounter, yeah, you need more than that initial thing to maintain the relationship.
in this case, just like many stories, what is needed is who MC's personality and what he does for them.

I mean, you have a short stack who has always been your friend at the least (even when you were poor), who enjoys fucking, video games and anime - who is now fanatically loyal to you, to the point where she'll fight a bitch she thinks is a risk to you and who spends her days doing your taxes, balancing the books, making calls, answering emails and doing paperwork so that you can drive around being a super hero with a fat bank account. What else could you possibly be shopping for in a li??

isn't that the definition of a wife or life partner for the vast majority of straight men ?

Brittany, not so much, she just needs a professional photographer so fair enough.

actually, Britt needs someone that can provide her with gigs that pays. so she does need MC to be rich, and through his money comes influence that she craves. he was just another guy until he gave her the calendar job. and then her eyes lit up when he mentioned he is friends with two celebrities. and him being able to allow her to redo her failed audition is also a huge step, which cannot be done without money

Carolina might be the only one interested in op no strings attached

she know he is rich, though. so it is a very real factor. she is in contact with tons of other less fortunate men for her job, and she didn't even date one since her divorce.
MC is the only rich guy that talks to her like a human being. tons of middle class or poor guys must have hit on her on a daily basis among them there is bound to be one nice guy at least. she only considered it for MC. why?

That would be using him for his money. Nothing's wrong with it but Nikki's not just hanging around guy just because he's her friend. Even when guy treats her like shit she comes back to him. Why? Cuz she needs his financial assistance.

she came back because she had/has no one else to lean on. her family cut her off. her ex-boyfriend was a piece of shit that caused her to be in that situation. MC is the only one that treated her right before, even if he "slipped up" once, she was clinging to what they were before.
it's not about money. there is some kind of dependence though. not really healthy, depending on how MC behaves.

What did she see in the douchebag?

at first, we could have thought that he was the only one that asked her out around her. but we know she got a lot of attention from store customers at least. but he was a douche towards her best friend, so she shouldn't even have considered it.
so it's just a story element that can't be explained. to setup the drama

Oh hey, this speaks to a revelation I had early on in the whole dev process. For a while, I was really struggling to make the story compelling, while basically making Guy a cipher. And it didn't take me too long to realize that just wouldn't work for me. Sometime around Chapter 4, I decided to switch tacks and approach Guy less like a blank slate, and more like a character we just happen to steer. It's the difference between playing Fido in GTA3, versus Tommy Vercetti in GTA: Vice City. The former is an entirely blank slate that the player can project themselves onto, while the latter is a multidimensional character that has his own wants, needs, etc.

These days, I try to split the difference a bit by having Guy be his own character, but staying out of his head a bit, so the player can interpret his words and actions how they want.

I honestly think that the trend of blank, faceless 'John Smith' protagonists, is part of why I soured on the western AVN genre a bit. It's a game format that's almost entirely driven by dialogue. So, when you have a hero who really has no personality, the dialogue will always fall a bit flat. In a format like an RPG or even a sandbox game, I think you can get away with that kind of hero, because most of the gameplay is spent doing other things - fighting, exploring, etc. And in the case of an RPG, you usually have party members/NPCs that carry the bulk of the story/dialogue on their backs, and the player only occasionally interjects with a broad morality-by-dialogue check.

"Oh no, they're slaughtering the villagers!"

• "This won't stand! To arms!"
• "It's unfortunate, but it's not our fight."
• "We'll save them, but I expect a reward."
• "Great, let's wait for them to finish fighting and kill whoever's left!"

I sometimes wonder if this is why a game like Bad Bobby has endured and had several remakes, despite being kind of crude in its execution (by today's standards). In a genre defined by bland, faceless heroes, Bobby is an extremely memorable character.

I come here to enjoy good stories and good characters. and that can't happen if the MC is a generic empty shell.
and most particularly, good banter between the characters cannot happen without good backstories for them and the MC. they also need motivation behind their actions and behaviors. even if it's just to fuck with as many girls as possible. actually recognizing their motivation themselves gives it more power in the story.
and you do a good job in giving and laying out each character's motivation.

 

[TrixRabbit]

isn't that the definition of a wife or life partner for the vast majority of straight men ?

I think it's far more than you should reasonably expect or ask for ... which is why I'm extra nice and extra careful with Nicki.