VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch. 9 v0.60c] [NeonGhosts]

[Dessolos]

I take time to count some renders that actually Risa appear on ( it was 336 render) which is wayy less than most of the characters , i know the feeling if you see character you may don't prefer like others you prefer , but even when Neon mentioned she appear in Ch7 (which is to my knowledge to be 4_3 ) she was like there for small time compare to other characters.
Also maybe i'm wrong about this assumption even when chapter 9 come still the game is early i dont think it's even in the mid stage of a game according to the story we have seen so far, i think when you say Villain in chapter 8 you think " hey, why he is being late to the game? isnt he supposed to be like early on or something?".
But again you still in the early stages of the game so far , just give it a time with the new update , there two types i have seen people who most play AVN ( not being jerk or anything or offend anyone ) but i know that there two
1- you like a character = you want to see her more
2- You don't like a character = you don't want to see her ever
nothing in between

I wish just for those have don't prefer certain character remember , this game provide us with variation of choices which
i havn't seen in a game so far thats why i like this game

Who knows maybe you like Risa after .
Some start hating character , but later on start to liking them.

Thanks for counting the renders. I kinda thought it was odd one of his complaints about Risa is about screen time when all I can recall are brief scenes until the last update and probably the next. Glad I was right and saying that.

2- You don't like a character = you don't want to see her ever
nothing in between

This is so true ive seen people say something to this effect in alot of other AVN's true. It's something I'll never understand even characters I hate I wouldn't want them to disappear entirely would feel really weird, I just simply don't play their path.

I kind of disagree about Risa how is she a slutty brat? Has she been with many guys?

I can kind of understand why he may think this with the way she flirts and acts. As when I was new to AVN's I was quick to call a LI slutty when she wasn't. It just took me awhile to have a different view as before I was set in my ways what was considered slutty thanks to tv and things ive seen online. But after playing a few of these "slutty" LI paths you learn they are anything but slutty, only a few actually are in these games at least to me. So I agree 100% Risa is not slutty. I personally think Risa is a damaged angel that needs our helped and to be comforted and guy to show her that he loves her and will protect her no matter what. As it feels like she doesn't know what it feels like to be loved. So she gets more hugs , cuddles , head pets and handholding than normal from me

 

[Fraxo]

I know exactly what you mean about characters. Whether in games or stories, they come to life and have a will of their own. Sometimes the original idea and character shifts into something completely different. At times it feels like stories/plots writes themselves. Good stories and characters take time. I much prefer well worked stories and games whith true depth and where you really get to know the characters. Sure, everyone would love lots of updates with focus on their favourite character(s) but I'll gladly wait for things to be done right.

Take your time.

I've seen plenty of games ruined by authors rushings scenes and endings to please an unpatient community. Was late to the party here, but as I have seen your work and updates seem to be consistent and steady with lots of updates and information for the fanbase. Your game, your choice. Keep up the good work.

 

[Machete]

I kind of disagree about Risa how is she a slutty brat? Has she been with many guys?

Might be. She seems very liberal about sex.

 

[Real Trampas]

i cannot wait anymore, im going to live up in a mountain and come back after fullfilling my personal ZEN MANTRA shit, i hope i come down as a fucking Netero to no give a shit about anything

 

[NebulousShooter]

The way this NebulousShooter is going on I would assume he's responsible for funding at least 60% of the project. Must've been the inspiration for the MC. Good on you mate.

We all know that the more money you spend the more your opinion matters.

I can kind of understand why he may think this with the way she flirts and acts. As when I was new to AVN's I was quick to call a LI slutty when she wasn't. It just took me awhile to have a different view as before I was set in my ways what was considered slutty thanks to tv and things ive seen online. But after playing a few of these "slutty" LI paths you learn they are anything but slutty, only a few actually are in these games at least to me. So I agree 100% Risa is not slutty. I personally think Risa is a damaged angel that needs our helped and to be comforted and guy to show her that he loves her and will protect her no matter what. As it feels like she doesn't know what it feels like to be loved. So she gets more hugs , cuddles , head pets and handholding than normal from me

She just offered sex for money/drugs in last update, after offering a foot job while knowing Guy for 10 minutes 2 updates ago, after flirting with him in front of others after knowing him for 5 seconds. Like why are we splitting hairs about this?

I have no problem with people liking what they like, my problem is with people refusing to call the spade they like a spade.

I take time to count some renders that actually Risa appear on ( it was 336 render) which is wayy less than most of the characters , i know the feeling if you see character you may don't prefer like others you prefer , but even when Neon mentioned she appear in Ch7 (which is to my knowledge to be 4_3 ) she was like there for small time compare to other characters.
Also maybe i'm wrong about this assumption even when chapter 9 come still the game is early i dont think it's even in the mid stage of a game according to the story we have seen so far, i think when you say Villain in chapter 8 you think " hey, why he is being late to the game? isnt he supposed to be like early on or something?".
But again you still in the early stages of the game so far , just give it a time with the new update , there two types i have seen people who most play AVN ( not being jerk or anything or offend anyone ) but i know that there two
1- you like a character = you want to see her more
2- You don't like a character = you don't want to see her ever
nothing in between

I wish just for those have don't prefer certain character remember , this game provide us with variation of choices which
i havn't seen in a game so far thats why i like this game

Who knows maybe you like Risa after .
Some start hating character , but later on start to liking them.

Are you counting renders she physically appears in, because I count as Risa screen time any render related to her scenes?

Prove me wrong that I'm unreasonably displeased with this, I suggest when next update drops to count the perchantage of the total renders her scenes have of the total renders in each update and compare them with other LIs that have had screen time 3 updates in a row. I doubt you will find many other than Nicki(obviously the most important non-MC character in the story) and maybe Ashe.

Let me run it back one more time, because for whatever reason its lost in translation.

1. she was never supposed to be anything but background fodder so that will forever will be a vote against her from me.
2. she is now tied to the main plot, so her scenes are mandatory, I can't actually make a choice not to get dragged in her shit, so you see your general argument about the game offering many choices and something for everyone is completely moot in this case, now is it?

 

[NebulousShooter]

This might be the only AVN where I will be praying for a house Fire where her and Carolina will be caught into and my Athletics Perk will not let me save more than one. Hardest decision of my life, I'm telling ya'

 

[Dessolos]

She just offered sex for money/drugs in last update, after offering a foot job while knowing Guy for 10 minutes 2 updates ago, after flirting with him in front of others after knowing him for 5 seconds. Like why are we splitting hairs about this?

I have no problem with people liking what they like, my problem is with people refusing to call the spade they like a spade.

it's all a matter of personal opinion at the end of the day. Like i said in my post a LI can come across as slutty at first to me but once I get to know them I dont consider them as such anymore. Probably different for you of course. But those 2 actions she did may come across as such but im not going to judge her say she is a slut right off the bat until I get to know her some more first. As up till the last update and the next one we barley had any scenes or content with her at least for me to judge her accurately. As ive made that mistake with other LI in the past that were quick to be flirty and have sex but then once I got to know them and learned what they were all about my opinion completely changed on that matter. That is why I do disagree with you but understand why you have that view just like I said in the post you quoted me on.

 

[Machete]

This might be the only AVN where I will be praying for a house Fire where her and Carolina will be caught into and my Athletics Perk will not let me save more than one. Hardest decision of my life, I'm telling ya'

What a deja vù

 

[Real Trampas]

This might be the only AVN where I will be praying for a house Fire where her and Carolina will be caught into and my Athletics Perk will not let me save more than one. Hardest decision of my life, I'm telling ya'

who is the blonde from signature?

 

[ename144]

View attachment 3619528
We all know that the more money you spend the more your opinion matters.

She just offered sex for money/drugs in last update, after offering a foot job while knowing Guy for 10 minutes 2 updates ago, after flirting with him in front of others after knowing him for 5 seconds. Like why are we splitting hairs about this?

I have no problem with people liking what they like, my problem is with people refusing to call the spade they like a spade.


Are you counting renders she physically appears in, because I count as Risa screen time any render related to her scenes?

Prove me wrong that I'm unreasonably displeased with this, I suggest when next update drops to count the perchantage of the total renders her scenes have of the total renders in each update and compare them with other LIs that have had screen time 3 updates in a row. I doubt you will find many other than Nicki(obviously the most important non-MC character in the story) and maybe Ashe.

Let me run it back one more time, because for whatever reason its lost in translation.

1. she was never supposed to be anything but background fodder so that will forever will be a vote against her from me.
2. she is now tied to the main plot, so her scenes are mandatory, I can't actually make a choice not to get dragged in her shit, so you see your general argument about the game offering many choices and something for everyone is completely moot in this case, now is it?

I'm loathe to defend Risa in the slightest, but I don't think the mere fact she was conceived of as a minor character is particularly important. Things evolve; I doubt Brittani started out as developed as she's become either, yet the game is much stronger for that change. Nor does the fact that we're forced to interact with Risa's backstory really set her apart. That's true of all the LIs to one degree or another - particularly Nicki - and realistically there's always going to be a limit to how much choice can be programmed into a game. It's not fair to hold perfectly normal behavior against Risa just because we dislike her.

What I do object to is the way Risa was suddenly thrust into such a prominent position without the proper setup. The MC's relationship with Nicki, even with the early game weirdness in Episode 1, was developed well enough that we can understand why Guy will lavish so much attention on her (regardless of how sordid that attention is). But Risa was a very minor presence in the MC's life, and the few choices we had allowed us to blow her off completely if we were so inclined. She was very much an optional extra. Yet somehow the MC is not only willing to buy drugs for her out of the blue, he's even willing to do so personally, after she blatantly lied and manipulated him. And we can barely even get our avatar to raise an eyebrow at this turn of events! It all just happens, and now we're locked into spending even more time with Risa cleaning up the fallout in the next chapter.

It makes no sense. Worse, it unintentionally undermines what I assume was the very point of weaving her arc into the main story this way. She was supposed to be a graceful way to introduce Luthien with out having to drag the game to a halt and drop a lot of exposition on us. But because the MC's are so incongruous with the game up to that point it winds up feeling every bit as heavy handed and artificial as an infodump would have been... while also saddling poor Risa with a level of resentment the game is unlikely to be able to handle. Before Chapter 8 I was happy to turn a blind eye to Risa's constant harassment and assume the MC was inwardly rolling his eyes the same way I was. But now that she's made it clear she's a genuine problem I'm not going to settle for anything less than a tough love stance so unyielding that her father's attitude pales by comparison. Is that a level of branching the game can support? I doubt it.

Granted, I'm sure things work a lot better for those who liked Risa and were eager to help her. That's fair. But it worked spectacularly poorly for those of us who disliked Risa and/or felt strongly that enabling her habit was a dreadful idea. I'd like to think I'm objective enough that I'd still consider that a poor exchange even if Risa was one of my favorites, but all I can say for sure is that it really sucked when my ox got gored.

 

[Dessolos]

I'm loathe to defend Risa in the slightest, but I don't think the mere fact she was conceived of as a minor character is particularly important. Things evolve; I doubt Brittani started out as developed as she's become either, yet the game is much stronger for that change. Nor does the fact that we're forced to interact with Risa's backstory really set her apart. That's true of all the LIs to one degree or another - particularly Nicki - and realistically there's always going to be a limit to how much choice can be programmed into a game. It's not fair to hold perfectly normal behavior against Risa just because we dislike her.

What I do object to is the way Risa was suddenly thrust into such a prominent position without the proper setup. The MC's relationship with Nicki, even with the early game weirdness in Episode 1, was developed well enough that we can understand why Guy will lavish so much attention on her (regardless of how sordid that attention is). But Risa was a very minor presence in the MC's life, and the few choices we had allowed us to blow her off completely if we were so inclined. She was very much an optional extra. Yet somehow the MC is not only willing to buy drugs for her out of the blue, he's even willing to do so personally, after she blatantly lied and manipulated him. And we can barely even get our avatar to raise an eyebrow at this turn of events! It all just happens, and now we're locked into spending even more time with Risa cleaning up the fallout in the next chapter.

It makes no sense. Worse, it unintentionally undermines what I assume was the very point of weaving her arc into the main story this way. She was supposed to be a graceful way to introduce Luthien with out having to drag the game to a halt and drop a lot of exposition on us. But because the MC's are so incongruous with the game up to that point it winds up feeling every bit as heavy handed and artificial as an infodump would have been... while also saddling poor Risa with a level of resentment the game is unlikely to be able to handle. Before Chapter 8 I was happy to turn a blind eye to Risa's constant harassment and assume the MC was inwardly rolling his eyes the same way I was. But now that she's made it clear she's a genuine problem I'm not going to settle for anything less than a tough love stance so unyielding that her father's attitude pales by comparison. Is that a level of branching the game can support? I doubt it.

Granted, I'm sure things work a lot better for those who liked Risa and were eager to help her. That's fair. But it worked spectacularly poorly for those of us who disliked Risa and/or felt strongly that enabling her habit was a dreadful idea. I'd like to think I'm objective enough that I'd still consider that a poor exchange even if Risa was one of my favorites, but all I can say for sure is that it really sucked when ox got gored.

As someone that loves Risa, I do agree it was handled fairy poorly. We barley got to know her character at all up until that point. Honestly there is nothing about her character that should make me like her , yet the facial expressions she made in the car flipped a switch or something because that was the moment I changed my mind enough to have some sympathy for her and became interested in her.

If we spent more time to get to know her I wouldn't of disliked how she bossed us around and made us drive her somewhere. But up till that point she felt like a side girl that I want to just say fuck off when she bossed us around. I know only chapter 1 is getting a rework but I feel like Risa's entire character needs a rework as well. As the way it stands right now it feels very rushed and forced. But if she got a rework and had some scenes added so we get to know her better beforehand I think that scene with her making us drive her to drug den would play out so much better.

 

[ename144]

As someone that loves Risa, I do agree it was handled fairy poorly. We barley got to know her character at all up until that point. Honestly there is nothing about her character that should make me like her , yet the facial expressions she made in the car flipped a switch or something because that was the moment I changed my mind enough to have some sympathy for her and became interested in her.

If we spent more time to get to know her I wouldn't of disliked how she bossed us around and made us drive her somewhere. But up till that point she felt like a side girl that I want to just say fuck off. I know only chapter 1 is getting a rework but I feel like Risa's entire character needs a rework as well. As the way it stands right now it feels very rushed and forced. But if she got a rework and had some scenes added so we get to know her better beforehand I think that scene with her making us drive her to drug den would play out so much better.

With respect, seeing more of Risa early in the game wouldn't make make like her; if anything I'd dislike her even more. She and I are just not compatible, so mere exposure to her sob-story isn't going to cut it.

What we need is to build up and broaden her relationship with the MC to the point that even a player who dislikes her personally can still be invested in her plight (for whatever reason). That's certainly doable, but it's neither simple nor easy, and it gets harder the more characters the game has. (Technically you could also dial Risa's act down a notch and make her a little less polarizing, but that would risk damaging the character for those who actually like her so I wouldn't recommend it.)

 

[Dessolos]

With respect, seeing more of Risa early in the game wouldn't make make like her; if anything I'd dislike her even more. She and I are just not compatible, so mere exposure to her sob-story isn't going to cut it.

What we need is to build up and broaden her relationship with the MC to the point that even a player who dislikes her personally can still be invested in her plight (for whatever reason). That's certainly doable, but it's neither simple nor easy, and it gets harder the more characters the game has. (Technically you could also dial Risa's act down a notch and make her a little less polarizing, but that would risk damaging the character for those who actually like her so I wouldn't recommend it.)

ah I didn't mean seeing more of her early would make the player like her but rather it just wouldn't make the scene feel so forceful to the point it feels really random when she bosses us around. As up to that point why would the MC listen to her and drive her anywhere that's all I was trying to say. I feel they need to be shown to be a bit more friendly or friends with with one another before that point a few small and quick conversations doesn't cut it imo.

I don't think if a hypothetical rework of her character were to happen she needs to be made to be likeable. All that I think needs to be done is to make them appear like they are friendly enough with one another that they might ask each other for help or a favor and that's it. As it stands now they still feel like mostly strangers and the MC happens to let her boss him around. I think It's going to take alot more to make someone like her especially if they know what's to come anyways so shouldn't focus making her likeable f it were to happen. As people have strong opinions when it comes to drugs / junkies in or out of fiction. So I think after that point is when she should be made to appeal to the player through her story or character. But that's just my opinion.

 

[xortor]

Just started playing and already that Anti-Nicki Patch is tempting me.

 

[TigerWolfe]

View attachment 3620257
Just started playing and already that Anti-Nicki Patch is tempting me.

Go wild, you'll really enjoy it.

 

[soprano31]

View attachment 3620257
Just started playing and already that Anti-Nicki Patch is tempting me.

Play violence route with her,best and most suitable route for her !!
you can humiliate her,hit her and spit in her face,
and take her beautifully rough anal until she literally screams,
and then another gorgeous rough Deepthroat !!

 

[Dee_Daa]

View attachment 3620257
Just started playing and already that Anti-Nicki Patch is tempting me.

i love nicki especially the ''make her your bitch'' route

 

[Dessolos]

i love nicki especially the ''make her your bitch'' route

Nicki love route with hand holding and all other romantics stuff for me

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Well, actually yes, and this is an amazing analogy. It didn't happen to me, but i know a lot of people who skipped the "boring POVs" of ASoIaF. I don't know how they kept pace with the story but i know they did.

And this is an amazing analogy because Friends in Need is suffering from the very same situation.

It's only normal that players, even more than Martin's readers, being this a waifus porn game, have their favored characters and their characters they like less or not at all. And of course every sequence about that LI they don't like is the "boring POV" to them. And it's pretty much unavoidable in a game with a solid narrative like this one. Other games get around this problem just setting the narration like "opt. A, this sequence plays, opt. B, it doesn't, but the story goes on the same anyway", but i don't think this can be applied to Friends in Need.

Please understand that we might like to fight and be jerks here, but we are, by the end of the day, just providing feedbacks. If it's a common occourrence that players complain about 'to much time on character X and too little on character Y' maybe there actually is some perceived issue.

Personally, by my point of view, and i'm by no mean a prefessional storyteller, i think the problem is there are too many characters and LIs to begin with. As i mentioned, and having been a software developed and a university graduated in computer science myself i have an idea, forking means exponential. The more you have mutually exclusive events, the more paths you need to keep writing and developing short of later killing/merging branches.

That's why i hypothesized that, at a certain point, the game will need to be rationalizied, meaning that you will need to choose which plot to carry on and which to close or drop and whether to sideline and demote some less popular LIs (and of course there will be tears and gnashing of teeth).

Again, it's just feedbacks and good spirited recommendations.

I do see your point, even though I'm personally not convinced tbh.

I know this is outside of what was being discussed, but aside from the story reasons that Neon's already discussed, I think it's important to remember the other benefits of a large LI count; for example, audience capture (and the business from it). I kinda feel like the diverse number of LIs is a big part of what gave this game its popularity. I'm no expert certainly, but the way I see it is this: whoever was captivated even by a single LI might be willing to play, spread the word, and/or pay, even if only when their favorite LI is coming up in an update (or two). And then you multiply that by all the LIs. And then you consider that a portion of those players might be willing to play, spread the word, and/or pay even outside of their favorite LI coming up. That's a good business decision imo.

I've said before that I do not question your work ethic and I stand by that. The rate at which you produce not only content, but high quality content, is fantastic. The question is, as you say, about the big picture, and personally I don't find your Storm of Swords analogy all that reassuring. There's a lot to be gained by having a broad focus and big vibrant world, no question. I can't help but notice, however, that by tinkering with his basic storyline to add lots of extra content for side characters, Martin created such a tangled mess that he's spent over a decade trying to sort things out and there's no end in sight. Frankly it seems unlikely he'll ever finish the series.

I don't want that to happen to this game. So if I seem to be complaining about you or your work, please understand it is never meant as a slight. This game has nearly limitless potential, but we're all only mortal. IMHO, sometimes seeing the big picture means cutting a little of the potential short so you can actually capitalize on the rest.

I personally wonder if Martin decided that his story & setting was so big, that not including more Houses, more regions, more characters, to take part in what's clearly going to be a HUGE, HUGE event in Westeros... would make his story feel so much smaller, less fully realized, and would probably be something he would regret as an author later.

Yeah, maybe not the best analogy for reassurance to some people "Martin's taking fucking forever, he'll never finish", the understanding being that "Neon's taking fucking forever, he'll never finish". But, let's not forget: ASoIAF is a masterpiece.. and it's a masterpiece because GRRM is doing all the torturous legwork to ensure it. And even more importantly: Neon isn't GRRM, and FIN isn't ASoIAF; two different authors, two completely, vastly different works (mediums, even). We're not going to be waiting a decade for a porn VN release to come out, I don't think.. lol. Highly doubtful the whole game will take that long, too, even given its character size. If it does, then I'll scooch over to ya'lls side. Until then, I see good, regular progress being made.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Stuff

I really, really hope this doesn't fuel any drama or anything, as that's not my intention. Well, ..you're being a little too confident & strident with your recommendations towards a game that's not even yours; maybe you don't mean to be, but seriously, if you were the dev and you had read this reply, it would come off as pretty noxious to you I think. Like, in the midst of asking your questions about his design decisions, you accuse & criticize before even waiting for the answer.

Anyways, shoving more LIs into each update would just decrease the writing quality, wouldn't it? We're still in the "getting to know each LI" phase, so I kinda feel like "everyone waits their turn" is actually the best possible way to do it. After we've gotten the meat & potatoes of each LI down, Neon has said that sex scenes will likely be shorter, and we'll probably get more LIs in at once because of it, barring certain major character/plot developments that demand more story/renders.

And also, I don't see how he's being stubborn. You didn't write the story, you don't even know exactly where it's headed, none of us do, and you don't witness the development process, so how can you have a better perspective on the big-picture of it than he does? You're viewing it from a "I want to see more content" perspective, whereas the author, as all good authors do, is viewing it from a "I want to see properly developed content" one.

He told us it needs to be day-by-day for the story initially, because it's supposed to be a hectic time in Guy's life with a lot of events packed in to a short span of time. And let's think about what that means for us: we need to be introduced to the MC, to everything he's planning & doing, to all the characters that will play an important part, to all the plot pieces that will develop, etc., and it needs to happen in a relatively smaller time-frame as compared to later stages of the game just to make better sense (again, from the story's perspective, not from a release perspective). From a gameplay perspective, it needs to happen in a relatively smaller time-frame so the player doesn't get bored or confused in one playthrough.

I don't think he decided to eventually start skipping time because people complained; it's because the story will better allow it as it enters another stage of its development, as the MC enters another, more finalized, stage of relationship with the LIs, and so on. The setup is usually the biggest hump, and it isn't quite finished setting up yet. Once it is, it seems to me things will necessarily go faster, both the story development & the rendering.

I don't know, I see your guys' issues, and I sympathize.. but I think Neon's path creates less problems in the end, just for the sake of the flow of everything. It might flow slower because of it, in terms of releases and frequency of seeing characters; but it flows better. Dev evidently cares more about latter, and good for him. And I'll bet you that when the game is finished (yeah yeah, it might not, w/e), we will see that too and prefer it. And that's what some of us are forgetting I think: we understandably want more and sooner, but we're forgetting that everything he's doing right now is for the sake of the finished product in the end, not our moment-to-moment whims & desires. Too many devs design their VNs around the latter, and it shows in my experience. That's why this one is a breath of fresh air for so many players!