VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch.1-7 v0.73] [NeonGhosts]

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

To be honest, playing other devs' games kind of convinced me how not to handle some of the dark content in FiN. There's a reason that the devs that do double (and triple and quadruple and quint..) down on the dark content just become interminable misery porn slogs. That's a large part of why I want to avoid it.

I think there's also a reason those type of games tend to get abandoned. After a while, where do you go with it? All that's left is greater acts of degeneracy. That's not a story, it's just boner fuel.

None of this is new, by the way. I've been saying this since literally the beginning, but the darkest routes just aren't very interesting to write.

"Aieee!"

"Aouwww!"

"Eeeeee!"

There's not a lot of meat on that bone, and it basically goes to the same place for everyone. Do I try to add some variation (within the bounds of sense and logic)? Yes. See: Pepper. But 90% of the time, that route ends with the character in abject fear of MC, and doing everything they can to avoid him.

Conversely -- the corruption routes? Ton of fun to write.

Nicki - free-use fuck-buddy who waffles between enjoying it and getting pissed at MC, based on his treatment.

Gabby - reluctant sugar-baby who could come around on the benefits of the arrangement, provided MC makes it worth her while.

Ashe - furious plaything that's nonetheless has MC propping up her career in the face of a hostile boss.

On and on. All of these give the love interests more agency, and are therefore just way more fun to write. There's a level of back-and-forth that is just at odds with the absolute domination inherent to the dark path. And there's still plenty of opportunities for forceful interactions.

Plus, to reiterate: There is a practical side to this. I think some people may really be discounting the amount of effort it takes for me to do 3-4 routes for everyone, over the course of the game. It's rough, dudes! The newest update would probably be done by now, if I wasn't dicking around with doing multiple routes for Ashe.

I should honestly just shut up about future game developments, because I doubt anyone actually playing the game over the next few updates would even realize certain girls had begun to disappear.

All of that makes perfect sense to me. Honestly, I know the constant questions and criticisms and what not can become frustrating, especially if someone has taken what you've said beyond its intended conclusion (dark routes are doomed! ), but I for one really appreciate the thorough communication and personally I like to pick your brain on the writing and overall vision So, thanks

Yeah, in the dark route you can just rape Ashe but in the corruption one is more like blackmail. Viola corruption is not even blackmail, just grooming. I was comparing Ashe's blackmail with Viola's rape.
I'm not against rape or any other extreme content as long as we can choose what to do. The corruption routes are good for an evil Guy but some of the dark ones come a bit over the top imo.
Like for example Viola dark route. It's the middle of the day in a shopping street and the dude goes and rapes a cashier in broad daylight. That kind of shit ends with mugshots of the dude in the night news

Yeah, porn logic triumphs in some of these scenes ofc But, in Viola's case, he had her close the store up first I think? Or maybe that was only in the corruption route when he had her model the clothes?

I don't think it would be bad for one of his victims to react by breaking and becoming a hardcore masochist. Obviously all of them doing that is highly implausible, but one of them reacting in an unusual way? That kind of reaction is hardly impossible, and characters reacting in different ways is at least as realistic as them all reacting the most common way. Is Viola the best choice for who to do that? I don't know, one could say that as she appears to need to stay with him for story reasons, Nicki might be a better choice.

Tessa might be that character. We know she's going to be a darker freak that enjoys abusing others, but she might also get off on being abused herself. I'm personally hoping she won't have a sad background that explains her behavior. While it's true that lots of sexually deviant behavior and negative personality traits surface from prior abuse or trauma, it's also true that some people are just born fucked

Oh yea, that's fair, and I wouldnt call myself the hyper-sensitive type towards youth; if we're being intellectually honest, most men desire a very youthful appearance. Having said that, there's more than a few games that slap the female characters with braces and flat chests then justify it as a "youthful attraction" and this to me is where I draw the line. It's less so much a strict legal definition but more "Regardless of age, do they look like a sexually mature female; do they have boobs and curves or do they have a child's body?", and I'd agree Gabby passes this, she's just not to my personal tastes.

All the adult 20+ ladies with flat chests and braces just collectively shuffled in their seats Haha, no I get you.

Personally as a 35 year old with a teen child, 18 yos generally look like children to me. I would not pursue one irl.

Scientifically we've learned that our brains are still developing until either 23 or 25 iirc, so there's a decent basis to still consider them children, even if legally that's not the case.

I wouldn't either; personally, I find the idea creepy. However, I can't say I find it immoral like some people, and of course every individual case is different. I've met some incredibly mature 18 year olds and sometimes they fall in love with an older guy and they end up happily married long-term. Others aren't so lucky, though... I can't imagine having a daughter and being in that situation trying to figure out if the guy is just a skeev or if she's incredibly lucky and has found a source of happiness for the rest of her life.

It might make it easier if, after a point, the nice guy and corruption routes also trail off with certain girls. Like a girl that would succumb to coercion and blackmail out of fear still not digging corruption if she believes she has a choice (or is smart enough to find an alternative way out of her bad situation) or a girl that just can't be won over by a nice guy because she is only into bad boys. It might cause some consternation but it would cut down on your workload as well as reward specific playstyles. Having only two possible routes for a girl in the late game might streamline the story some.

This sounds interesting to me, but also extremely frustrating for a lot of players. If Neon ends up doing this, he better have a nuclear fallout shelter ready

My money is on Cassie

Oh man, I hope not lol... my MC's gonna be fucked because I won't be able to say no to her

Just wondering how many people are playing the darkest route.

I bet a tenner that most of them are writing in this thread.

Sup fam, reporting in! I love all the routes, though, tbh. The wholesome writing in this game really makes me warm and fuzzy, especially when I'm floating on a gummy. It's honestly so satisfying and fascinating to play this game from such vastly different perspectives, for me at least.


P.S. sorry for commenting at so many people and spamming walls. i know it's probably annoying but i can't help myself, it's interesting to talk to you fellas

 

[soldano]

I can't disagree here, since you are doing a way better job then most. This game is among the best written around exactly because characters are vivid and not stereotipical as you don't ofter see around here.

In fact, most rape games fail for two reasons: Because their plot is too bad, and because there are no real choices. You can only be evil, or be evil. That doesn't happen in Fin. You can be mean to some girls, nice to others, or even change your attitude. For example, in my main gameplay, I started out being mean to Nicki. But then I started to like the character, and I didn't want to treat her badly. So I changed my attitude towards it, and I loved that because it's a small redemption arc that I had never seen in a game of this type (and not because the game forced me to do so, but because I chose it based on how I felt about Nicki's character).

On the other hand, one thing I would like to clarify is what we are talking about when we talk about Dark Path. Do we mean rape anything with two legs? Because for me blackmail, or financial submission is also a pretty dark path. Yeah, you're not throwing the girl on the ground between garbage cans to rape her like an animal. But either you're forcing her to do things she doesn't want, or you're taking advantage of the fact that she needs the money.

I agree with NeonGhosts that the violent rape scenes have a short history. But one thing that I loved about the last update is how Ashe's arc was treated. In my main gameplay I raped her next to some garbage cans. But in the last update you have the possibility to blackmail her, and force her to have a date with you. That path has a long way to go, because it's not that you rape her again in a dark alley, which would have been "meh", but that you force her to submit to your desires by other means. Is that a dark path? A lot in my opinion, but at the same time it is interesting. In fact, the character began to interest me in the last update as a result of the scene of her in her room, where she really looks desperate. She doesn't want to date you. She doesn't want to see you anymore. But she has no choice but to give up, dress pretty, and go out holding the arm of the guy who raped her behind some garbage containers. That's more humiliating than any S&M shit.

 

[Ragnar]

In fact, most rape games fail for two reasons: Because their plot is too bad, and because there are no real choices. You can only be evil, or be evil. That doesn't happen in Fin. You can be mean to some girls, nice to others, or even change your attitude. For example, in my main gameplay, I started out being mean to Nicki. But then I started to like the character, and I didn't want to treat her badly. So I changed my attitude towards it, and I loved that because it's a small redemption arc that I had never seen in a game of this type (and not because the game forced me to do so, but because I chose it based on how I felt about Nicki's character).

On the other hand, one thing I would like to clarify is what we are talking about when we talk about Dark Path. Do we mean rape anything with two legs? Because for me blackmail, or financial submission is also a pretty dark path. Yeah, you're not throwing the girl on the ground between garbage cans to rape her like an animal. But either you're forcing her to do things she doesn't want, or you're taking advantage of the fact that she needs the money.

I agree with NeonGhosts that the violent rape scenes have a short history. But one thing that I loved about the last update is how Ashe's arc was treated. In my main gameplay I raped her next to some garbage cans. But in the last update you have the possibility to blackmail her, and force her to have a date with you. That path has a long way to go, because it's not that you rape her again in a dark alley, which would have been "meh", but that you force her to submit to your desires by other means. Is that a dark path? A lot in my opinion, but at the same time it is interesting. In fact, the character began to interest me in the last update as a result of the scene of her in her room, where she really looks desperate. She doesn't want to date you. She doesn't want to see you anymore. But she has no choice but to give up, dress pretty, and go out holding the arm of the guy who raped her behind some garbage containers. That's more humiliating than any S&M shit.

If we are talking about the Law, yeah. coercion is considered rape too. But from a moral point of view coercion and violent rapes aren't even remotely the same.
Let's talk about Harvey Weinstein. What did he do? He offered acting roles in his movies in exchange of sex. He wasn't forcing women to anything, his victims could have walked away at any moment, it was a trade relationship.
Violent rapes on the other hand are worse from a moral point of view. You're forcing yourself on somene, most times rapists use extreme violence on their victims too.
So blackmail/coercion in game come as corruption while the darkest options are more forceful and extreme.

 

[Ottoeight]

If we are talking about the Law, yeah. coercion is considered rape too. But from a moral point of view coercion and violent rapes aren't even remotely the same.
Let's talk about Harvey Weinstein. What did he do? He offered acting roles in his movies in exchange of sex. He wasn't forcing women to anything, his victims could have walked away at any moment, it was a trade relationship.
Violent rapes on the other hand are worse from a moral point of view. You're forcing yourself on somene, most times rapists use extreme violence on their victims too.
So blackmail/coercion in game come as corruption while the darkest options are more forceful and extreme.

I will shout till my very last breath that you are utterly, totally and completely wrong. I think your opinion is filth.

Having said that, I'm going to report you because you broke 3 BASIC FORUM RULES, at least.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

If we are talking about the Law, yeah. coercion is considered rape too. But from a moral point of view coercion and violent rapes aren't even remotely the same.
Let's talk about Harvey Weinstein. What did he do? He offered acting roles in his movies in exchange of sex. He wasn't forcing women to anything, his victims could have walked away at any moment, it was a trade relationship.
Violent rapes on the other hand are worse from a moral point of view. You're forcing yourself on somene, most times rapists use extreme violence on their victims too.
So blackmail/coercion in game come as corruption while the darkest options are more forceful and extreme.

I agree; degrees of wrong and all that. However, pretty sure Weinstein was accused of physical, forceful rape as well. He was a stand-up guy, as we all know...

 

[soldano]

Maybe this is not the place to discuss this, but in my opinion what Harvey Weinstein was doing is on the same level as rape. There are people who think that this was an exchange between equals. A kind of prostitution. But it's not like that. Actresses were forced to do something they didn't want to do through blackmail, coercion and intimidation. Maybe it's not the same shit as putting a knife to someone's neck, but it smells a lot like it.
And besides, he did it like this with the same motivation as a rapist: the fantasy of power. Or do you think he couldn't have hired prostitutes as beautiful as the girls he raped? But the question here is not the sex itself, but rather the megalomania of forcing them to fuck him knowing that they don't want to. That is the fetish, which is the same as that of a common rapist.

And I know it well because I have the same fetish, but I am conscious enough not to do it even though I have had the opportunity. That's why I play these games where you can do it without harming anyone.

 

[Uriel ☁]

I don't remember another thread with so many people at each other's throat for so many different reasons lol.

3 weeks ago because of Nicki's stupid past choices.
2 weeks ago because of Mason for simply existing.
Last week was Ashe's turn to be slut-shamed and now it's the dark route's turn.

At this point I'm curious of what we'll slay each other for next week lol.

 

[Joshy92]

I think people are focusing too much on the dark content.
I don't know about anyone else, but I started playing this because I liked the look of Nicki.
I didn't even know about the dark stuff.
At the moment this thread is reminding me of the deadmoom survival thread a while ago
where everyone was focused on the dark stuff even though that wasn't the point of the story.

 

[Ragnar]

I will shout till my very last breath that you are utterly, totally and completely wrong. I think your opinion is filth.

Having said that, I'm going to report you because you broke 3 BASIC FORUM RULES, at least.

Are you high or something? I was just saying that there are different degrees of rape.
Take a chill pill or report me to the thought police, It's a fact.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

I don't remember another thread with so many people at each other's throat for so many different reasons lol.

3 weeks ago because of Nicki's stupid past choices.
2 weeks ago because of Mason for simply existing.
Last week was Ashe's turn to be slut-shamed and now it's the dark route's turn.

At this point I'm curious of what we'll slay each other for next week lol.

Oh you are late to the party, we switched to Gabby. Also Nicki stuff is reoccurring not a one week thing.

 

[NeonGhosts]

A fun thing on the friends-only path is that Ashe needs to borrow a swimsuit for the jacuzzi.

Fortunately you have one laying around.

 

[Uriel ☁]

A fun thing on the friends-only path is that Ashe needs to borrow a swimsuit for the jacuzzi.

I'm quite certain I'll like more the swimsuit from the romance/corruption path lol.

 

[NewTricks]

I think people are focusing too much on the dark content.
I don't know about anyone else, but I started playing this because I liked the look of Nicki.
I didn't even know about the dark stuff.
At the moment this thread is reminding me of the deadmoom survival thread a while ago
where everyone was focused on the dark stuff even though that wasn't the point of the story.

You know how it goes. Outrage drives engagement so the most controversial content is going to be what is discussed even if it is fully optional.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

A fun thing on the friends-only path is that Ashe needs to borrow a swimsuit for the jacuzzi.

Fortunately you have one laying around.

View attachment 2703687 View attachment 2703688

Hey! That's my sister's you witch!
Unless Ashe wants to be my Guppie again, of course...

 

[Joshy92]

You know how it goes. Outrage drives engagement so the most controversial content is going to be what is discussed even if it is fully optional.

Yeah, I agree with that

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Hey! That's my sister's you witch!
Unless Ashe wants to be my Guppie again, of course...

Right?! I am not gonna give the sister's present to some bimbo.

 

[Master of Puppets]

A fun thing on the friends-only path is that Ashe needs to borrow a swimsuit for the jacuzzi.

Fortunately you have one laying around.

View attachment 2703687 View attachment 2703688

She looks great, if a bit poorly lit. The whole room being light except for her is sus. Plus I'm not sure why she would need to borrow a swimsuit if she's friends-only; or do you mean more specifically if we didn't invite her over when we first met her?

 

[Rorikon215]

Fortunately you have one laying around.

I mean, would it not be better if you didn't have one around?

 

[Ruff Ryder]

How long can we expect to wait for the next update? I remember last time it took quite a long time.

 

[Ragnar]

I think people are focusing too much on the dark content.
I don't know about anyone else, but I started playing this because I liked the look of Nicki.
I didn't even know about the dark stuff.
At the moment this thread is reminding me of the deadmoom survival thread a while ago
where everyone was focused on the dark stuff even though that wasn't the point of the story.

What is there to to talk about in the good route? You will marry Ashe or maybe Viola and your best friend Niks will take care of the FiN business. The End.
Guy will attend his own wedding still wearing his old white t-shirt of course.