Game Developer Ideal Crowdfunding Platform/Patreon Alternative/Cryptocurrency Discussion

[saintvermillion]

I'm breaking my new thread virginity with this one please be gentle, use lots of lube, whisper sweet nothings maybe some roses .

Patreon is becoming or is a choice of the past for game developers especially if you have any content that at anytime in your development of adult games could be considered to contain depictions of incest, beastiality, non-con(rape) or age ambiguousness. There are a large number of cryptocurrency based crowdfunding alternatives that have emerged recently in the backlash since the political censorship controversy on crowdfunding platforms, The advantage of which helps them avoid the Paypal censorship brought about because the crowdfunding platform historically needed the credit credit processors so was beholden to their whims. The discussion we were having having was based around the ideal mechanics and choice of crowdfunding platform but was hijacking an otherwise valid thread so I thought moving discussion here would be ideal.

I would strongly suggest that everyone carefully deciding the best Patreon alternative that would be ideal for game developers is best for game developers because splitting interest across multiple platforms decreases donator motivations due to the time it takes to set up multiple accounts(apart of what made Patreon so popular was that it was a one stop donation shop) which only results in less money supporting game developers. The questions I wanted to raise kickstarting(pun intended) the discussions were:

While providing credit card options for donating alongside cryptocurrency for example with

You must be registered to see the links

(the website mrdots from DMD now uses to bypass incest issues) provides extra motivation for people to donate because cryptocurrency wallets take a bit more time to set up does it open the same old door to censorship?

Which Patreon alternatives stand out to you and why?

Would the time it takes to setup a cryptocurrency wallet account discourage you from donating knowing that by doing so your content would be as censorship free as you could expect?

Should we wait to see which Patreon censorship free alternative emerges before recommending one to developers?

Some Crypto Patreon alternatives:

You must be registered to see the links

(a site developed by a game developer here which doesn't seek to profit but to help game developers develop their games without censorship, currently doesn't have any CC options but wants to to include it acknowledging the associated fees with doing so)

You must be registered to see the links

(New bitcoin based crowdfunding platform)

You must be registered to see the links

(New bitcoin based crowdfunding platform)

You must be registered to see the links

(knobs still haven't gotten back to me about what they will and will not allow adult content wise but it's a crypto based crowdfunding platform)
There are more I've probably not come across currently being set up.

 

[SoulFoZoid]

Idk how it works for you I'm just telling my problems with the alternative currency in general.
I once had to donate some bitcoins for that I had to find out how I can make a wallet how I can convert real currency to bitcoin.

Eventually after some dinging I found a simple way to go to a local minimarket and use a converter there and after a few tries i finally got to donate that bitcoin amount.

To me it was a big hassle, to donate on patreon I just needed to register once, link my creditcard/paypal account and start the flexible pledge if I didn't like the content on some patreons I just would cancel the pledge and go somewhere else.

I feel that much of the convenience is what you can do on that website and how easy it can be.

 

[Avaron1974]

None of them stand out to me.

I only used Paypal through necessity as I don't like using my cards online much. I've used them for years and they are the only ones I trust with my bank account, i've never had a problem with them. As it's Paypal pushing for the changes it would mean having to use something else to do my online payments.

I will not be giving access to my money to any other company let alone brand new ones starting up and i'm not touching cryptocurrency.

None of the games I enjoy have been pushed off Patreon but if the time comes that they all are then i'd end up a full time pirate.

Paypal is how I pay for everything online and Patreon isn't a big enough part of my financial life to justify even considering using anything else. It would take Paypal shutting down completely before that would even be an option and then i'd just limit my online spending to places I know and trust which wouldn't include Patreon or alternatives.

 

[saintvermillion]

I'd proclaim that's alot of cryptophobia for pirates but I can't talk. I've never set up a bitcoin wallet nor have I ever needed to. Even if you were motivated there seems to be a decent barrier between your average user and the knowledge required to do it. It can take awhile for people to wrap their heads around what a cryptocurrency like bitcoin is let alone which crypto operators can you trust? how do you establish an account? How do you transfer your bitcoins? Was ordering those thirty thousand AK47s off the deep web a bad idea? How many details should I be giving away when setting up a cryptocurrency wallet? Those kinds of questions.

Patreon is in debt to the tune of 100 million dollars to investors. The CEO has said the current business model isn't sustainable. They tried to increase their fees awhile back but that went down like a lead balloon because they were already charging 10% on all donations so they backpedaled. Their next plan is to expand with extra services on the website but a recent video of the CEO crying while saying 'you've just got to trust us, we'll do right by you' really didn't inspire confidence. It will probably manage to stay afloat for some time whether or not it tanks in the end.

There are alot of game developers on this site that have had issues on Patreon with account suspension, account banning(losing all of their income) and having to take the time to rollback significant portions of their games because of content(nearly every single major game on this site includes incest). I'm sure there are lot of developers who would like to see a platform where interested parties could donate to their work without concern of the donation middleman censoring their work. There is the patch workaround currently for these types of content(which is why the patreon system is tolerated) but unless that part is preplanned to be patched the dev typically has a bad time.

(To the NSA, FBI, Interpol the AK47s thing was a joke)

 

[megaplayboy10k]

I'd note that, upon a superficial survey of fap game sites(pirate and otherwise), there's a direct correlation between the proliferation of these games and the decision of Patreon to permit adult games to be funded via its site. So if Patreon went under or decided to exclude adult games altogether, that would be a huge blow to this still-niche industry.
I don't think crypto-based financing will pan out, at least in the short term. The alternative is to find a credit-card processing service willing to work with an adult site. I assume that pornhub, brazzers etc have a reliable partner for their CC transactions, and their agreement probably covers what kind of content would be a no-go. So why not set up a site using a reliable CC processing partner, and assess the fees of the transaction to either/or/both devs and patrons? It might be the case that more controversial content might require workarounds, which might be handled on the individual websites of devs.
Edit: a helpful site for explaining issues and workarounds related to transaction processing for adult merchants:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[redknight00]

I'd note that, upon a superficial survey of fap game sites(pirate and otherwise), there's a direct correlation between the proliferation of these games and the decision of Patreon to permit adult games to be funded via its site. So if Patreon went under or decided to exclude adult games altogether, that would be a huge blow to this still-niche industry.
I don't think crypto-based financing will pan out, at least in the short term. The alternative is to find a credit-card processing service willing to work with an adult site. I assume that pornhub, brazzers etc have a reliable partner for their CC transactions, and their agreement probably covers what kind of content would be a no-go. So why not set up a site using a reliable CC processing partner, and assess the fees of the transaction to either/or/both devs and patrons? It might be the case that more controversial content might require workarounds, which might be handled on the individual websites of devs.

That's exactly how Patreon is doing and exactly why some people want alternatives.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

I think real-life CP or other overtly illegal content is the clear redline as to what to exclude. There are some countries and jurisdictions which even have an issue with "realistic" portrayal of CP in a fictional/animated medium, but there are some workarounds for that. I think Patreon's restriction on "nonconsensual" acts in fictional works doesn't have a legal basis, they just want to avoid bad publicity, so I don't think some of their restrictions would necessarily apply to any crowdfunding site, especially one explicity devoted to crowdfunding "adult" projects.
BUT doing something like this:
1. Costs money up front
2. Requires someone experienced with doing business with payment processors, banks and other merchants
3. Will fail unless widely known to both devs and the consumer/customer base

One solution might be for a coalition of fairly successful devs to put up all or most of the money themselves, or even to raise money online for it. A successful site might be a cross between Patreon and Steam, allowing both crowdfunding of games and purchase of finished games(and a means of restoring or reinstalling the games as needed). It might even be possible to play games onsite.
I would note that there are certainly successful adult game sites already in existence, though almost all of them focus on Flash-type games.

 

[Fliptoynk]

I wish the devs can accept donations via this site. Of course, f95 will have their cut ftw

 

[Loqic]

Cryptocurrency really isn't much of an option I think. If you're tech savvy or a regular on the darkweb it's probably all great and if you can believe the media, it's all the hype, but to be fair I don't know anyone who deals with it, including myself. Too much of a bother to figure out yet another new thing to throw your money around with.
Heck, in my country a creditcard isn't even a popular way to pay with. Everyone has been using debit cards for ages, also online.

I can't believe how patreon can fuck up so much. First going all prude with porn, then going all SJW and now the "business model is unsustainable". pfft
Incredible... taking 100m in funding (for what?) to be a middleman and hosting a website. The whole setup should have been a goldmine, but alas. And now investors want to see some return.

Silicon valley needs to die. In California nothing goes anymore because of people 'thinking wrong', but if you want it to move it to Texas it'll still fail because of people 'fucking wrong' or just being plain indecent.
With the EU also going censor and control happy, going all Orwellian, this also isn't the place I guess.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

My impression is that one could have a dedicated "pornfunding" site, but the overhead will be greater, esp. with regard to transaction processing, because it's considered high risk and has a high chargeback rate(e.g., embarrassed patrons canceling when it shows up on their statement and the spouse asks uncomfortable questions). ACH payments might be a viable alternative to CC transactions. Still need a processor, though.

 

[saintvermillion]

No one seems to have a clear answer on whether the non paypal payment processors are possible avenues for a crowdfunding platform without censorship beyond obvious redline materials(like what subscribestar is supposed to be doing) because if the answer to that is yes then you solve both the problems at once -no censorship and still have non-crypto payment processing options. In that scenario you'd just have to pick one of the crowdfunding platforms that fits the criteria. If the answer is no then to overcome the problem you need to use a pure crypto service or stick with the status quo and deal with the censorship. In either yes or no scenarios there would probably be some value to a pure adult crowdfunding platform but either way it's not essential.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

No one seems to have a clear answer on whether the non paypal payment processors are possible avenues for a crowdfunding platform without censorship beyond obvious redline materials(like what subscribestar is supposed to be doing) because if the answer to that is yes then you solve both the problems at once -no censorship and still have non-crypto payment processing options. In that scenario you'd just have to pick one of the crowdfunding platforms that fits the criteria. If the answer is no then to overcome the problem you need to use a pure crypto service or stick with the status quo and deal with the censorship. In either yes or no scenarios there would probably be some value to a pure adult crowdfunding platform but either way it's not essential.

It seems to me that any pornfunding site could use the same CC handlers as the most prominent adult websites like Brazzers, Pornhub, etc. It will cost a bit more but almost certainly there'd be fewer content restrictions. Stuff bordering on CP would be the only stuff that might be problematic.

 

[saintvermillion]

It seems to me that any pornfunding site could use the same CC handlers as the most prominent adult websites like Brazzers, Pornhub, etc. It will cost a bit more but almost certainly there'd be fewer content restrictions. Stuff bordering on CP would be the only stuff that might be problematic.

This makes sense but is that something that would need to be created though or does it already exist?

On a side note: Gab has been around for years and has 1 million users priding itself as a social media/crowdfunding platform for free speech including the more extreme political perspectives but got kicked from paypal (which you'd expect) and then managed to get itself kicked from Coinbase(which is more interesting) a cryptocurrency exchange. Coinbase is type of centralized exchange which lead Gab to decry centralized exchanges and suggest decentralized ones is the answer. I thought it was interesting that censorship was popping up even in certain cryptocurrency exchanges ffs. Nearly everyone has control issues XD

On a side side note: Ironically Paypal's actions and the recent poltical censorship controversy is fantastic news for bitcoin. If I had the money to spare I'd be investing some of it in bitcoin because even if the idea is unpopular amoungst the average porn game player this has caused alot more members of the general public to pick it up.

 

[Passenger3D]

Hmm, release the game on Steam under subscription model ? would be same as patreon pretty much minus the political bs.

 

[Deleted member 167032]

Anyone here use Payoneer?

 

[Fliptoynk]

Or paymaya

 

[gamersglory]

Hmm, release the game on Steam under subscription model ? would be same as patreon pretty much minus the political bs.

I'm pretty sure as big as steam is they will get flak for taboo games but could be wrong with Epic breathing down there neck
Honestly would be easier to set up a game buying site for adult games then a Patreon-style site. Less for CC processors to grumble about. Crowdfunding freaks out payment processors. Adult content freaks them out too. as both have a very high chargeback rate. Put both together

 

[Avaron1974]

I'm pretty sure as big as steam is they will get flak for taboo games but could be wrong with Epic breathing down there neck

Epic is no threat to Steam, not even close.

Their launcher is lacking in so many ways and they already managed to piss of the gaming community trying to get exclusive rights to games.

Maybe in a few years but right now, nope.

 

[gamersglory]

I wish the devs can accept donations via this site. Of course, f95 will have their cut ftw

I did talk to F95 about it once. But the TLDR of it is that F95 is a pirate site going the route of being a support platform would require the site to go legit and become a legal entity.

 

[Fliptoynk]

I did talk to F95 about it once. But the TLDR of it is that F95 is a pirate site going the route of being a support platform would require the site to go legit and become a legal entity.

So... There's not much choice for you devs other than patreon, huh? Ok... Back to the ole' routine. Just make a vanilla romance vn/game then upload the fetish patches here... just to avoid the fuzz