Not at this time. We are still working on a lot of things. There is a reason we chose Nano as the cryptocurrency of choice. But I can't get into that now NDAed. We are also still looking into finding a payment processor that will work with us.
Game Developer Ideal Crowdfunding Platform/Patreon Alternative/Cryptocurrency Discussion
- Thread starter saintvermillion
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saintvermillion
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Makes sense. Feel free to let us know when and if that changes. There are alot of developers and gamers that have been dick punched in some shape or form by Patreon in the past who would be happy to help.
They'll have fully functioning sex robots with quality AI sooner than you'd expect.
You are still going to have to find a payment processing service that will work with you, and they are going to charge something for that service. Adult entertainment goods and services is still considered a high risk transaction, because there are a greater number of chargebacks and a greater amount of fraud committed. I dunno what would be considered "reasonable" if 10% is considered usurious. 5-6%? There are going to be transaction costs on top of the payments.
polywog
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That's called a bank. You open a business account, and the bank processes credit card transactions for you. Your bank gets 1% for their trouble. Some people prefer to use paypal, paypal protects a user from credit card fraud. Less risk because only paypal gets the cc number. So unscrupulous vendors can't use the credit card over and over, or sell your card info. Paypal gets about 3% for their service. Accepting Paypal increases your $ because more people are willing to use it.
When a gallery does an opening for an artist, the gallery pays for everything, catering, drinks, staff. The Artist is the star.
People buy paintings, the galley processes the transaction, and gets 10% as commission on the sale. Patreon never gave me free drinks, but they still think they can snort 10%
- GoFundMe in November announced it would no longer take a 5 percent fee of funds raised on personal campaigns, opting instead for what amounts to a virtual tip jar.
- Users are presented with a voluntary option at the end of a transaction to send a few extra dollars to the site.
- CEO Rob Solomon said the "effective rate" of user donations is enough to keep the business profitable.
When you support a "starving artist" it's because you like their work, and you want to see them do more of it.
It's about the artist being able to do their art, without having to worry about food, or having a roof over their head, paying their light bill. It's not about making millionaires richer.
saintvermillion
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I agree with you completely but your described method means each developer has to deal with paypal's censorship and potential account removal and having to take the time that could be spent on developing said game to develop a website. An adult game focused crowdfunding alternative solves those issues.
polywog
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You have a lot on that plate, so let's break it down into bite-size chunks and push the peas away from the mashed puhderders.
A) Eliminate the middleman in your transactions by having your own website where you can get money through a variety of payment methods. Middlemen (Patreon) won't allow you to link their competitors on their site. Having one payment method shut down (eggs in one basket) doesn't shut you down, if your fans can still reach you.
B) Paypal has rules, but they are not as strict as some people think. They have rules for transactions, where goods are sold, and they have another set of rules for just sending money for no reason at all, nothing being delivered. If you aren't doing anything illegal, you should be able to work within the rules, one way or another. Gambling, **, human trafficking, money laundering, etc. is not allowed.
C) Making a website is easy, we're talking about game developers here. Some devs already have their own websites, and some have their own servers running their games. An extra $100k here and there is nothing to sneeze at, but if you can't be arsed, that's fine, keep giving your money to a middleman.
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Your website can have any number of webpages, related, semi-related, unrelated, and hosted. For example, your game page can be separate from your art page. Your members pages, can require login.
D) Censorship is one thing, but what Patreon and Facebook are doing is another. Even if it were perfectly legal
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it's still wrong, and I can't condone rewarding that kind ofbad behavior. Giving Patreon 10% is funding terrorism, IMO.F95 is doing a damn good job at promoting Adult Games, and making them available. The modding community
kicks ass.Modders help the players get more of what they want, and in doing so they shield the game dev from blowback.
saintvermillion
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Paypal rescrictions are actually lighter on Patreon than all other websites that use it.You have a lot on that plate, so let's break it down into bite-size chunks and push the peas away from the mashed puhderders.
A) Eliminate the middleman in your transactions by having your own website where you can get money through a variety of payment methods. Middlemen (Patreon) won't allow you to link their competitors on their site. Having one payment method shut down (eggs in one basket) doesn't shut you down, if your fans can still reach you.
B) Paypal has rules, but they are not as strict as some people think. They have rules for transactions, where goods are sold, and they have another set of rules for just sending money for no reason at all, nothing being delivered. If you aren't doing anything illegal, you should be able to work within the rules, one way or another. Gambling, **, human trafficking, money laundering, etc. is not allowed.
C) Making a website is easy, we're talking about game developers here. Some devs already have their own websites, and some have their own servers running their games. An extra $100k here and there is nothing to sneeze at, but if you can't be arsed, that's fine, keep giving your money to a middleman.You must be registered to see the links
Your website can have any number of webpages, related, semi-related, unrelated, and hosted. For example, your game page can be separate from your art page. Your members pages, can require login.
D) Censorship is one thing, but what Patreon and Facebook are doing is another. Even if it were perfectly legalYou must be registered to see the linksit's still wrong, and I can't condone rewarding that kind ofbad behavior. Giving Patreon 10% is funding terrorism, IMO.
F95 is doing a damn good job at promoting Adult Games, and making them available. The modding community
Modders help the players get more of what they want, and in doing so they shield the game dev from blowback.
See this article from 2016 when they made special rules just for Patreon three weeks before Trump's anti-obscenity pledge was made:
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Your ideas about paypal content tolerance are cute but don't reflect reality, they notoriously hate adult content. They ban adult content creators with their own websites down the line when they realize the content is adult in nature. If you really want to go deep down the rabbithole its because an international anti-sex trafficking agency are pulling their strings and going well beyond their original purview and the chargeback rates on adult content sucks.
You'd need a specialized adult payment processor which would cost more and is made cheaper when used collectively(oh noes socialism lol), crypto which by your own admission few want to donate with or well stick your credit card information up there.
No one here is getting an extra 100k here or there no matter how many mrdots waifu pillows you produce. Some developers have their own website but most don't and surprise most who do have their own website also have a patreon or other crowdfunding account set up as well. There is no reason why your merchandising idea couldn't be followed up on a crowdfunding platform.
polywog
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Paypal doesn't hate adult content. Thousands of PORN distributors accept paypal payments to the tune of millions daily.
Here's an example. Add porn and sex toys to your shopping cart. click checkout. notice that paypal is a popular option for payment.
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Paypal makes millions off the porn industry, a huge part of their business.
What paypal cracked down on was digital distribution of porn / piracy.
Which is why I said sell physical game DVDs.
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NO, I didn't say few use crypto. I said paypal was safer than using credit cards directly.
Anyone can buy Bitcoin gift cards at Walmart so there's nothing to be afraid of. It is the best method of supporting artists, and game developers with the lowest cost. We should encourage more people to get into it.
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Not to mention that your render rigs can do other things when you aren't working on your games.
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saintvermillion
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No one is going to buy physical DVDs even if they had still had disc drives that's fantasyland which is why someone suggested usb drives would be a better option but even then.. I think you'd be lucky to find anyone who would want game delivered to their house on a usb stick. This invalidates your paypal plan completely.
You also said in another post paypal should be used because more people want to donate with it which i took to mean less people want to use crypto which is where that by your own admission part came from. If I overstepped on assuming that I apologize but you were right in any case. Fewer people want to use crypto to donate. You can see some evidence of that directly at the start of this thread and through it. Most people cbf donating to an adult game using anything but a cc proccessor..
This part is something I agree with, it is not something to be feared and something that people should be encouraged to get into.
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Honestly, most credit card processors take about 3% as a transaction fee. It's not limited to PayPal. And this is from 16+ years dealing with third-party credit card processing services.
polywog
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@saintvermillion
You fixate on certain trees, and miss the forest. It's not about people buying DVDs because they want a new Frisbee to toss.
It's about supporting the artist / game developer. They can get the game here on F95, they don't need a DVD.
Selling a physical DVD makes you a legit vendor, eligible to sell with paypal. Work within the rules.
Fans are much more interested in the other merchandise. Pre-order DVD to be delivered in 12-18 months.
18 months later you can email and ask "Do you still want that DVD?"
You fixate on certain trees, and miss the forest. It's not about people buying DVDs because they want a new Frisbee to toss.
It's about supporting the artist / game developer. They can get the game here on F95, they don't need a DVD.
Selling a physical DVD makes you a legit vendor, eligible to sell with paypal. Work within the rules.
Fans are much more interested in the other merchandise. Pre-order DVD to be delivered in 12-18 months.
18 months later you can email and ask "Do you still want that DVD?"
Thank you, for backing me up on this. 3rd Party payment processors suck. Call your bank and ask them what rate they will give you instead of using 3rd party services.
saintvermillion
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The dvd thing you just described is pretty clever, it's maybe a solution for the paypal issue by some developers who be can assed to create a dvd mailing list and their own website but you can't see expect people to see the forest when you've only shown us some trees.
As for the third party processors is it 3% irrelevant of content? Others in this thread have suggested it would be higher fees for adult content. You said yourself polywog that most don't like using their bank directly because it makes it possible for sus vendors to charge them over and over(something I experienced myself, turned out an aussie site I once used was owned by russians, go figure lol) or sell your credit card info
polywog
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@saintvermillion
Once you're an established game developer with a name that is recognizable, and people can see your website isn't some shady Nigerian princess scam. They will trust you with their CVV code. Your reputation means everything. You get better rates based on volume, if you're doing $2k+/day banks will fight for your business taking less than 1% on Visa/MC plus bonus miles and other incentives. You aren't going to make that much just selling games. Your game is a hook, a theme that brings people to your store. George Lucas missed out on some good licensing opportunities. The Princess Leia fleshlight sabre, with mp3 Organa Orgasm audio. "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope." would have sold millions. Fans come to your site excited about your game and then, "well while i'm here i guess i could use a few tubes of lube, and give me a couple pair of those DMD panties" "The Elena red ones with the bow" impulse spending, they probably don't even have a daughter to wear them. It's for a good cause. Like you buy girl scout cookies to support the SJW movement, not because you like the cookies.
Once you're an established game developer with a name that is recognizable, and people can see your website isn't some shady Nigerian princess scam. They will trust you with their CVV code. Your reputation means everything. You get better rates based on volume, if you're doing $2k+/day banks will fight for your business taking less than 1% on Visa/MC plus bonus miles and other incentives. You aren't going to make that much just selling games. Your game is a hook, a theme that brings people to your store. George Lucas missed out on some good licensing opportunities. The Princess Leia fleshlight sabre, with mp3 Organa Orgasm audio. "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope." would have sold millions. Fans come to your site excited about your game and then, "well while i'm here i guess i could use a few tubes of lube, and give me a couple pair of those DMD panties" "The Elena red ones with the bow" impulse spending, they probably don't even have a daughter to wear them. It's for a good cause. Like you buy girl scout cookies to support the SJW movement, not because you like the cookies.
saintvermillion
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The merchandising is definitely a clever idea too. As long as the developer isn't pulling Darth Smut tier money grubbing tactics I don't have a problem with them making a buck.
saintvermillion
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polywog
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saintvermillion
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I've seen that one already personally but it's a great watch. When you see it in it's entirety it makes total sense the podcast caused his stock to tank but definitely an interesting man.
For someone who believes we should be encouraging cryptocurrency you seem to be pushing paypal pretty hard and that part of it still doesn't sit right with me. Even by trying to game the system with the dvd sending method by staying in the rules looking at those paypal terms very carefully you can see how alot of content produced by developers here would fall outside of the rules. That and their extremely well documented history of censorship especially with adult content in the digital space seems silly to the point of being counterproductive, like oh sure the ship is sinking, guards are coming around shooting people, the temperature is decreasing but if we work at this and be really clever about it we'll still be able to have our space on the ship. I'm trying to say look at the ship, it's a full blown fly ridden shithole let's find another one.
It made me laugh in the Bill Ottman interview when he mentions the dilemmas Minds has with borderline porn content and its censorship on his platform. That explains why no one at minds responded to my email about exactly what was allowed in the borderline adult content areas.