Games comparison and dev's sheltering

[kopiluwak]

I've been pondering about reasons why this site (of all) would try and avoid comparison on game's topic (with other games), while I do understand the need to "stay on subject" and avoid cross promotion, comparison is a bad thing for nobody, but the dev's feelings.

In a world where everything as being said and everything as being done, why not use standards ? some games in the same niche are more successful, have done things better, and need to be checked for references and talked about, the fact that comparison are forbidden in game's thread and in review defy the purpose.

The point is there's no need to reinvent the wheel every-times, there's no shame in using other people's good idea, implement from other games mechanics etc.

With the current state of rules, criticism is muted, and devs are isolated in a narcissistic echo-chamber where everyone is telling them how great they are and how they can do no wrong, and end up in complacency, while other devs are outright frauds and abuse the system and take full benefit of F95's free advertisement.

It's true that anyone can just talk about (almost) anything in other part of the forum, compare games and ask for recommendations, but different part of the forum are visited by vastly different populations and has no value if it's not acknowledged by the game's own dev, backers and other potential support.

I know it's hard for anyone to put yourself, and your creation, out there for the world to see and judge, but it's not helping to be surrounded by yes-man either.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

With the current state of rules, criticism is muted, and devs are isolated in a narcissistic echo-chamber where everyone is telling them how great they are and how they can do no wrong

WTF, you ever read the comments?! Some people act like a game is a personal attack on them. You can list and rank games, just not in the game thread itself (there are plenty of threads comparing/ranking by genre etc.).

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

I, personally, wouldn't really mind comparisons (not that there's really much to compare my game to) but I get the rule. It's a rule forged in blood. There's a lot of people here, so mods have to do what they can to preempt game threads and the like from going off topic all the time. However

With the current state of rules, criticism is muted, and devs are isolated in a narcissistic echo-chamber where everyone is telling them how great they are and how they can do no wrong, and end up in complacency, while other devs are outright frauds and abuse the system and take full benefit of F95's free advertisement.

I know it's hard for anyone to put yourself, and your creation, out there for the world to see and judge, but it's not helping to be surrounded by yes-man either.

You are absolutely incorrect here. We are not "surrounded by yes-men" in the slightest. We are not shielded from criticism. We are surrounded by people who demand everything, while giving nothing. At least, it can feel like that sometimes. There are many people here who seem to forget what this site actually is. A site for people to pirate games.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

I, personally, wouldn't really mind comparisons (not that there's really much to compare my game to) but I get the rule. It's a rule forged in blood. There's a lot of people here, so mods have to do what they can to preempt game threads and the like from going off topic all the time.

"Comparison is the thief of Joy". It is a good rule, otherwise any new game getting started will inevitably get overshadowed rather than be judged on its own merits.

 

[Waterthose]

There are many people here who seem to forget what this site actually is. A site for people to pirate games.

You mean this ISN'T Yelp for games!?

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

You mean this ISN'T Yelp for games!?

I don't know, people do be doing a ton of yelping around here.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

"Comparison is the thief of Joy". It is a good rule, otherwise any new game getting started will inevitably get overshadowed rather than be judged on its own merits.

Every college harem game already gets too many comparisons to BaD, we don't need more of that.

 

[kopiluwak]

You are absolutely incorrect here. We are not "surrounded by yes-men" in the slightest. We are not shielded from criticism. We are surrounded by people who demand everything, while giving nothing. At least, it can feel like that sometimes. There are many people here who seem to forget what this site actually is. A site for people to pirate games.

I respectfully don't think there's anything "absolute" about me being incorrect, there are such case of pandering, criticism is systematically dismissed as "this game isn't for you" or "go tell that to the dev on patreon"... nobody in the thread is talking about anything anymore, outside asking for updates.

A site for people to pirate games.

This is just disingenuous, peoples advertise their games here, and they represent the fast majority of the backers on crowdfunding platforms.

WTF, you ever read the comments?! Some people act like a game is a personal attack on them. You can list and rank games, just not in the game thread itself (there are plenty of threads comparing/ranking by genre etc.).

->

It's true that anyone can just talk about (almost) anything in other part of the forum, compare games and ask for recommendations, but different part of the forum are visited by vastly different populations and has no value if it's not acknowledged by the game's own dev, backers and other potential support.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

I respectfully don't think there's anything "absolute" about me being incorrect

Well, let me rephrase that for you - you are totally wrong

there are such case of pandering, criticism is systematically dismissed as "this game isn't for you" or "go tell that to the dev on patreon"... nobody in the thread is talking about anything anymore, outside asking for updates.

Just go read some comments, nothing you are saying matches what Ive seen with my eyes.. comments can get pretty brutal. Also many devs are not here, so yes, to talk to them you need to go to patreon etc. & people are prompting that an update is available to get the thread updated...

And as per the rule, as I said

"Comparison is the thief of Joy". It is a good rule, otherwise any new game getting started will inevitably get overshadowed rather than be judged on its own merits.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

I respectfully don't think there's anything "absolute" about me being incorrect, there are such case of pandering, criticism is systematically dismissed as "this game isn't for you" or "go tell that to the dev on patreon"... nobody in the thread is talking about anything anymore, outside asking for updates.

Fair, in some cases. But a lot of the time, criticism does actually boil down to "I don't like X tag". A lot of the time, people are asking for things that aren't feasible to do. Though, imo, "go tell that to the dev on patreon" is legitimate because a lot of devs either aren't on here or left because... yeah, people here can suck sometimes.

This is just disingenuous, peoples advertise their games here, and they represent the fast majority of the backers on crowdfunding platforms.

Backers that, on average, contribute a grand total of about 100$ a month for thousands of hours of work. That's what I mean when I say "people who demand everything but give nothing". Most players don't understand how much work goes into all of this and they don't care. They just yell "gimme" without any regard. Because it's a piracy site, and that kind of behavior is expected.

 

[kopiluwak]

Fair, in some cases. But a lot of the time, criticism does actually boil down to "I don't like X tag". A lot of the time, people are asking for things that aren't feasible to do. Though, imo, "go tell that to the dev on patreon" is legitimate because a lot of devs either aren't on here or left because... yeah, people here can suck sometimes.

It's true that not all criticism is valid, but when I presented the case I didn't mean "me don't like" comments, I specifically talked about comparison, what other games are doing that you (or other participating in game's discussion in a thread relative to that game) could take inspiration from, eg: using schedule system from Rimworld, using a sidescreen camera like Solgante, having an outfit system like pixelgames etc.

I don't see how a reasonable mind would see that and not think "yeah, this game could use some already existing mechanics" and improve.

Backers that, on average, contribute a grand total of about 100$ a month for thousands of hours of work. That's what I mean when I say "people who demand everything but give nothing". Most players don't understand how much work goes into all of this and they don't care. They just yell "gimme" without any regard. Because it's a piracy site, and that kind of behavior is expected.

I'm not gonna argue claims about your game, and it's origin, if you want to discard that aspect fine, this isn't the subject.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[...] criticism is systematically dismissed as "this game isn't for you"

Because most of them come from people who dislike the story, how a character look or her personality, and/or some kinks of the game. What imply that yes the game is just not for them. When their criticism regard the realization, the UI, or any element that isn't factually related to the story itself, they are told something else that is:

"go tell that to the dev on patreon"...

Because it happen that a vast majority of them are not members here...

nobody in the thread is talking about anything anymore, outside asking for updates.

Well, I'm tempted to say that it's your fault if you only play games that aren't interesting enough to gather a community around them. But not all games are like this, and there's many threads where players exchanges their thoughts and theories.

This is just disingenuous, peoples advertise their games here, and they represent the fast majority of the backers on crowdfunding platforms.

Both claims are just false, but this have been addressed by others.


Edit:

I'm not gonna argue claims about your game, and it's origin, if you want to discard that aspect fine, this isn't the subject.

It's not about his game, it's just a fact that you can verify by yourself through

You must be registered to see the links

. If you ask nicely, Count Morado can even give you a link to a summary of the data.

 

[kopiluwak]

snip

The subject is comparison with other games in thread and review.

while I don't have all other dev's native from F95 main source of backers, I know it's not systematically identical for all devs all the time, some have reported 70%+ of their backers are from F95, but to dispute that F95 added visibility isn't a net positive is just not truthful.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

but to dispute that F95 added visibility isn't a net positive is just not truthful.

Good thing I never said that at all.

 

[Echoesinthedarkness]

because some people are so fucking braindead and devoid of any compassion to other people's work while being high sniffing their own farts (which they mistaken with showing knowledge and understanding of the field) this restriction is a must. every postapocalyptic game is compared to desert stalker, every college game - with badik, get a fucking grip and try to judge a game on its own merits, tell what you like in it and what you dont like based on you playing this game, not desert stalker.
its like, if you will have kids will you also constantly compare them to other children? like holy fuck, show some compassion for once.

 

[anne O'nymous]

The subject is comparison with other games in thread and review.

That you present as being a stupid idea, basing your reasoning on the assertions that I quoted...

So, either you want to discuss, and then you've to accept that the base of your reasoning is questioned, or you're just here in search for validation, and you'll be even more disappointed.

[...] but to dispute that F95 added visibility isn't a net positive is just not truthful.

Well, I'll shamelessly copy what Insomnimaniac said: "Good thing I never said that at all".

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

I don't see how a reasonable mind would see that and not think "yeah, this game could use some already existing mechanics" and improve.

'Existing mechanics' do not exist, they would have to be made. What you are saying makes about as much sense as 'see that house over there, its got great features, so just use those'

Most players don't understand how much work goes into all of this and they don't care.

This.

OP I suggest

1) You try mod a game you like, just to get some inkling of how much effort even the smallest things turn out to take. And I don't mean download and install a mod, I mean actually get into the code and try make some changes to a game you like.

2) Read more comments. What you are saying is dis proven by simply opening your eyes

AGAIN - comparisons (within a thread) are a bad idea, any new game will immediately get compared to & overshadowed by more established games.

 

[kopiluwak]

That you present as being a stupid idea, basing your reasoning on the assertions that I quoted...

So, either you want to discuss, and then you've to accept that the base of your reasoning is questioned, or you're just here in search for validation, and you'll be even more disappointed.

At no point you mentioned comparison, I would gladly discuss with you whether it's ultimately a good or a bad thing, and why or why not it should be avoided in game's thread and reviews, as long as you're able to behave politely.

Well, I'll shamelessly copy what Insomnimaniac said: "Good thing I never said that at all".

You did say it's negligible quantity, now you can drop the mob mentality and engage in conversation please ?

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

At no point you mentioned comparison, I would gladly discuss with you whether it's ultimately a good or a bad thing, and why or why not it should be avoided in game's thread and reviews, as long as you're able to behave politely.

Others have addressed this and you seem to be just glossing over that

 

[morphnet]

comparison is a bad thing for nobody, but the dev's feelings.

Except people trying to get information, get help, report bugs, post help, answer questions. If you have spent even 2 minutes in game threads you'd know adding another reason to go off-topic is a terrible idea.

In a world where everything as being said and everything as being done, why not use standards ? some games in the same niche are more successful, have done things better, and need to be checked for references and talked about, the fact that comparison are forbidden in game's thread and in review defy the purpose.

This is you assuming ALL dev's who's games are here use this site, this is you assuming all dev's who's games are here want their games here. What's the point of comparison if the dev NEVER reads it other than to start arguments and go off-topic?

The point is there's no need to reinvent the wheel every-times, there's no shame in using other people's good idea, implement from other games mechanics etc.

There is also nothing wrong with a dev making THEIR game the way they want to and again dev's for a lot of the games here DO NOT use this site.

With the current state of rules, criticism is muted, and devs are isolated in a narcissistic echo-chamber where everyone is telling them how great they are and how they can do no wrong, and end up in complacency, while other devs are outright frauds and abuse the system and take full benefit of F95's free advertisement.

Criticism is NOT muted, the problem is many "adults" do not know how to act like adults and so do not give civil or constructive criticism, something you would know if you spent time in game threads. Also if you think dev's end up in complacency because of comments on here you clearly need to spend more time both reading game threads and reading some of these dev's profiles. The amount of abuse hurled at many of them is absurd and you will find most of those "the game is great" comments are replies to people complaining, harassing and trolling game threads.

It's true that anyone can just talk about (almost) anything in other part of the forum, compare games and ask for recommendations, but different part of the forum are visited by vastly different populations and has no value if it's not acknowledged by the game's own dev, backers and other potential support.

and has no value in the game thread either.

I know it's hard for anyone to put yourself, and your creation, out there for the world to see and judge, but it's not helping to be surrounded by yes-man either.

This is a shot in the dark but I'm guessing you either made a comparison or you gave criticism and it wasn't well received and that prompted this thread. Which I'm guessing is why you keep focusing on "yes-men" and "echo-chambers" when neither is close to the truth.

There is nothing wrong with coming up with ideas to improve the site BUT it really helps when any of the reasons behind it are actually real or factual.