- Sep 25, 2021
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Gotta love the freedom of speech here in the free world. German IP's are now blocked by DLSite due to legal issues.
Germany joins the Ranks of Countries needing a VPN for DLSite.
- Thread starter Reaper9988
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- Sep 25, 2021
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- Jun 28, 2021
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- Sep 25, 2021
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Well you need VPNs for basically anything here in Germany these days, especially porn:
In that it's not that different than China lol.
Waiting for the day f95zone has to block Germany.
- Apr 14, 2021
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- Jun 10, 2017
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What the fact that the government can't pursue you, in any possible way, if you speak against it, have to do with the fact that you can't access a porn website ?
I really love those guys who use concept without have the starts of the clue what they effectively means...
- Sep 25, 2021
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Err freedom of speech applies to freedom of expression too.
Your view of freedom of speech is pretty narrow if it only applies to speaking against the government.
It applies to any expression were the state is involved in matters that are not strictly illegal.
Fact of the matter the blocking was a state intervention.
It's generally rumored it was because of the Loli, thing is acquiriring or possessing Loli that is not confusable with RL ********** is not illegal here.
Distribution would be illegal but DLSite does not fall under German jurisdiction, which is why probably the Authorities went to Amazon Cloudfront to threaten since they have legal German representation.
So no it's not the same as the revolutionary Guard barging into your house because you broke some silly Sharia law or spoke against the Leadership.
It's still pretty shady state involvement and defacto censorship.
If DLSite decided to not sell to Germans anymore out of there own accord, you'd be right.
- Sep 25, 2021
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And the comparison to China was only because you need free DNS and VPNs here basically also to access a lot of stuff because either German ISPs are forced to DNS block a lot of stuff and on the other hand services are either are forced to IP Block like in this case or do it out of their own accord because it's too much hassle to deal with German legislation like Zippyshare or Steam did.
- Sep 25, 2021
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Err well I'll give you getting a VPN over here is neither expensive nor illegal (which makes the whole thing even more ironic).
I'm just pissed since Germany has been doing this stuff in all kinds of areas in recent years.
- Jun 10, 2017
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Yet it have nothing to do with a freedom of speech or even of expression. A freedom of act eventually, but it's not the same and it have always be restricted in a way or another by the Law.
This being said, two are to blame for server side bans, and Germany isn't necessarily the most culprit.
In the case of Steam by example, it's not the fault of the German government if Valve still refuse to implement an age verification system that comply with the German laws. I'll not pretend that it's easy to implement, especially while complying with the EU
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, but still, it's Steam that refuse to let Germans access adult games, not the German government who don't want Germans to access them. All that Steam have to do is to comply to a particular German law, like they already do for other countries law, and also some other German laws. And the fact is that, as far as I know, two years later they still haven't done.For DLsite,
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it's not due to the age verification system, but so far they refuse to give the reason. So we can only speculate, but the simple fact that they said by themselves that it's not the issue tend to point to a particular kind of content, like rape or bestiality by example.Like DLsite have a relatively good tagging system, if it's effectively the issue then it's not impossible for the situation to be solved in few weeks.
- Nov 20, 2017
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Also if the government issue a filtering/block ofsome site, you usually don't need to have a VPN. A DNS resolver outside of their jurisdiction often solve the problem too.
Sure if they go all out that will change that, but if they go all out even the onion router will be put to it's limit.
And freedom of speech, expression and so has never saved you if you broke the law.
Sure if they go all out that will change that, but if they go all out even the onion router will be put to it's limit.
And freedom of speech, expression and so has never saved you if you broke the law.
- Sep 25, 2021
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The thing is that possesion or acquiring of any of that isn't illegal here. Offering it would in theory be illegal, but as I said a Japanese Company without any ties to Germany doesn't fall under that restriction.
That is the problem here, Germany is using the ties to Amazon Cloud Front to impose something on a foreign company.
And by that it is also a problem of prohibiting German citizens doing something absolutely legal.
The only thing, as I said, that would be illegal for a German is to acquire underage stuff that could be mistaken for the real thing.
Now I don't check for this stuff, but since DLsite doesn't allow AI content I don't really see how it would be possible.
Another off topic example is Russia Today. Shitty propaganda site yes, but in itself not illegal, still there was a DNS ban forced on ISPs.
As said that is not a big deal and easily circumvented but the principle I find problematic.
I agree with the Steam thing that is a business decision of Steam, just plays into the hands of our censorship hungry "Youth Protectors". But not an issue of freedom of speech. That is like Zippyshare more of an issue of German legislation being so hard to follow that it's not worth it.
(The requirements for an acceptable Age verification here are basically so insane and expensive that afaik no business outside of Germany bothers.
And even for German businesses it's usually easier to just not offer any 18+ Articles. I mean it's not only porn affected. So I still see Germany as the Culprit here. I don't see how the GDPR would be affected, I mean the systems already exist and AFAIK in the end no Data which you don't already agree too when opening an account is saved. )
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- Sep 25, 2021
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Actually, after checking, in Comic/non Real form the mentioned stuff isn't actually forbidden from being offered or sold.
It's just the underage stuff that is illegal to to sell/distribute not buy/acquire(for Germans) even if in comic form, so my guess is still Loli/Shota is the problem.
But even in this case Germans can legally buy it so in principle it still infringes on a personal freedom imo.
Now it'd be hilarious if it was about DLSite not taking Value added Tax, but then it would be a EU thing not just Germany.
It's just the underage stuff that is illegal to to sell/distribute not buy/acquire(for Germans) even if in comic form, so my guess is still Loli/Shota is the problem.
But even in this case Germans can legally buy it so in principle it still infringes on a personal freedom imo.
Now it'd be hilarious if it was about DLSite not taking Value added Tax, but then it would be a EU thing not just Germany.
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- Jun 10, 2017
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Really ?
And It's a real question, because German laws are even more unbearable that French ones, but the
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, that address the "dissemination, procurement and possession of child pornographic content", looks like it don't fully agree with your claim ; even as you weighted it later in your post.All rely mostly on what a judge would consider as being the reproduction of "an actual or a realistic act". While I agree that "actual" necessarily imply that it involve real person, "realistic" can perfectly include good enough 3D renders.
Plus, even if DLsite wasn't using Amazon services, the fact that they recently added a German interface imply that they intend to address directly Germans citizens. Therefore, while the site would effectively not fall under German jurisdiction, German's authorities can still consider, with reason, that there's an intent to commit a offense or a crime accordingly to the said jurisdiction, or an incentive for their citizens to commit one or the other.
They can then perfectly, and legally, warn the site that, if it don't solve that issue, they'll forbid their citizens to access it. In which case DLsite would have just took the lead, banning on their side (because it's easier to undo than an official ban performed by a country), the time to discuss with the authorities and find a way to solve the issue, if there's one.
Firstly, as an EU member, Germany have to follow EU laws and rules, and it's the EU that decided of the ban.
Secondly, I'm pretty sure that RT do not comply with the German
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.
- Sep 25, 2021
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Yeah the realistic act part is a bit spongy. It's defined by it being not easily recognizable as fake by a random person.
The only part where I could see that is either professional CG, AI generated images or doctored pictures.
Seeing as DLSite basically banned a lot of AI content creators before the full ban exactly because the pictures looked too realistic and looking at the usual 3D offerings I really don't see that.
But like I said it's like many of our laws very imprecise so if you find the right witness to identify the pictures you could make basically everything life like.
Which, for me, kinda just proofs that in this case(assuming that is the reason) they are going against stuff they don't like under the guise of child protection/fighting illegal media.
Offering German doesn't really imply wanting to sell to Germans I mean there is other German speaking countries(also DLSite did state it had nothing to do with that). DLSite does not have a legal representation here so does not fall under German jurisdiction and Japan is highly unlikely to offer legal assistance to Germany against a domestic company.
So the leverage is against Amazon with exactly that network enforcement act which is very imprecise and spongy again.
Like I said I have my problems with the definition of Freedom of speech in Germany specially and in the EU generally.
It's still way better than in most countries but just because it's worse somewhere else doesn't make it great or perfect where you are.
That being said, it is also possible that DLSite decided to take the step just to avoid the hassle. Hell if I was a Japanese I'd go the DmmFanza route and restrict most everything adult related to Asian countries. Dealing with selling Adult content, especially the Hentai variety, to western countries is a real hassle and obviously pointless in most African or middle east countries. So why not just stick to their main market, Westerners like me who want the stuff find a way anyways lol.
But DLSite already made an effort to clean up for the Big 2 Credit card companies and I guess it's never enough, so like I said I was pretty pissed even though it doesn't really affect me.
As for RT, ya you are right it was an EU decision in which, as again with a lot of them, Germany had a big role in.
And yeah I actually think RT deserves it but also I think that freedom of speech requires you to accept speech you don't like, even bad speech.
The idea how far that kind of speech goes is a main discussion point in Germany and I'm opposed to where it is going.
And the outcome of the Digital services Act when it is implemented by the Nationsis gonna be really interesting.
And I admit my first Post was polemic but I wanted to rant
But I think freedom of speech affects a lot of things and not just having a Governent agency bang down your door like 1933 for speaking wrong is just a part of it.
- Sep 22, 2023
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The country and people responsible for some of the worst human rights violations the world has ever seen now want to act all morally pure and innocent? Where was that energy 90 years ago huh?