Glamour

[Ennoch]

I seriously doubt that a game such as

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should be hosted here. It requires a constant "online" presence which only means that one has to open his or her computer's ports to the developer's private server. Which he or she in return can abuse as he or she sees fit. It is basically a torjan that although doesn't install malicious software, and in turn doesn't trigger any antivirus or real-time smart defence, but serves as an open gateway through firewall.

Any game that we play on steam does this but we are trusting Steam not to abuse this and Steam as a company offers guarantees to prevent such abuse. Dark Silver isn't Steam. He made no such claims and even if he would.. those just words of a guy who can vanish from the internet.. with your paypal account password if he so chooses.

I'd like to know ASAP the Moderator team's view on such a matter. I'm seriously concerned over this.

 

[Deleted member 54063]

Most games you play these days, poll data back to central servers. While Steam does collect a relatively limited amount of data, what developers collect is different and separate.

The developers want to collate data and analytics to better understand how their games are played. Also in some cases, like with Glamour, one of the key reasons for remote link is so that elements of the game can be updated without the user having to do anything.

I don't see normal games, and this game as any different in that regard - they're all unknowns, using the data to an unknown extent. Accept for the fact that Dark Silver doesn't do it that efficiently, and (stupidly) made it very public. If you think that games on Steam are somehow more secure or safe, you're mistaken - they all collect data, most don't reveal that fact, and some even sell the data.

Unless there is evidence of wrong doing, I don't see why the game should/would be removed.

 

[Ennoch]

one of the key reasons for remote link is so that elements of the game can be updated without the user having to do anything.

...because they said so. So if i tell you you can trust me with your life savings you'd give it to me?

 

[DarthSeduction]

Now, my own game uses Unity Analytics, which I think is harmless, but it doesn't force you to be online. This is completely different. You can subvert my game by denying the firewall or turning off your router. You can't do that with his. In my opinion whatever version of Glamour makes it on this site should be cracked on principle to get rid of forced online DRM

 

[Jack-O]

Unless there is evidence of wrong doing, I don't see why the game should/would be removed.

*cough* naïve much? *cough*

Have you've been following the news, btw? Cambridge Analytics has always been such a great protector of your privacy while digging through the data they got. And they used all their data just to be of service to companies and the public good. Lmao! In my line of work I've learned one thing for sure. Moment you get evidence of wrong doing? You're already too late ...by far!

 

[Deleted member 54063]

*cough* naïve much? *cough*

Have you've been following the news, btw? Cambridge Analytics has always been such a great protector of your privacy while digging through the data they got. And they used all their data just to be of service to companies and the public good. Lmao! In my line of work I've learned one thing for sure. Moment you get evidence of wrong doing? You're already too late ...by far!

That was actually my point, I wasn't saying they can be trusted. The OP was saying that somehow we can trust other games, but can't trust this one, because they made their server known. If you read my post, you'd know I actually made you very same point:

they all collect data, most don't reveal that fact, and some even sell the data.

My point was, none of them can be trusted with data, so why single this one out? They made the mistake of making their server known, which people got upset about it. That's it.

 

[Grubb]

Do people even *care* enough about it to play (pirated or otherwise)? I don't think any reasonable number of people would give two shits about it. Just pretend it doesn't exist, and soon enough, it won't.

 

[DarthSeduction]

That was actually my point, I wasn't saying they can be trusted. The OP was saying that somehow we can trust other games, but can't trust this one, because they made their server known. If you read my post, you'd know I actually made you very same point:


My point was, none of them can be trusted with data, so why single this one out? They made the mistake of making their server known, which people got upset about it. That's it.

The difference, as I pointed out, is that this game forces you to be online and connected. Other unity games use analytics. Our game was open about that fact. We aren't profiting from them, but they'll help us build better games in the future. And, if you want to avoid them, its as simple as choosing to play while offline.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Do people even *care* enough about it to play (pirated or otherwise)? I don't think any reasonable number of people would give two shits about it. Just pretend it doesn't exist, and soon enough, it won't.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Its Dark Silver, are you fucking serious?

 

[Deleted member 54063]

The difference, as I pointed out, is that this game forces you to be online and connected. Other unity games use analytics. Our game was open about that fact. We aren't profiting from them, but they'll help us build better games in the future. And, if you want to avoid them, its as simple as choosing to play while offline.

Yeah, I understand the difference. And I'm not defending the method of always online - people have always hated it. I just don't see why it justifies the game being removed from F95. Crack that aspect, as you said, sure. But remove it?

Remember: removing it was the OPs reason for writing and main request.

People want to hate on this game for many reasons, including the fact that it replaced BB, which we all loved.

 

[Ennoch]

The OP was saying that somehow we can trust other games

That seriously not what i've said. I was saying that with Steam we have a certain level of protection. Even if we don't, they gained confidence. But DS isn't steam. Just a random guy who asks us to to trust he'll be a nice guy and don't isntall a keylogger on your computers. You bet you turst Steam won't do that and play games over Steam. But i'm genuinely concerned about some indie developer.

I just don't see why it justifies the game being removed from F95

And i've said: I seriously doubt it should be hosted! And here i am, asking for the moderators to look into the matter. I'm not demanding anything or its removal, i'm voicing my concern. I'm afraid this game with its DRM is above the level what can be called accectable risk. Dark Silver isn't exactly Steam. What guarantees he offers in protection of the end-user's personal data. In my understanding he is a russan indie developer who can't be held accountable if he so chooses to abuse this level of trust he asks from us. I'm merely saying that in my opinion this shouldn't be allowed because of the risk it carries but its up for the moderators to decide while the meantime i'm worried about the credibility of Dark Silver. Sure, he says this is for the users convenience. Well, for reals, what else would anyone tell anyway. That he wanna hack our computers please allow him? Sure, he may be the trustworthy guy, but what if he isn't.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Just a random guy who asks us to to trust he'll be a nice guy and don't isntall a keylogger on your computers.

Pixel's point isn't steam though, almost all Unity games use unity analytics. We could all be doing exactly what you're fearing right along with him without forcing you online the whole time. My own team uses Unity Analytics on Game Legends. Which means that we are collecting the data from you playing the game. We aren't going to add a keylogger nor are we collecting any data that we are able to sell, but, you see, the point stands that we are all collecting your data.

 

[Jack-O]

That was actually my point, I wasn't saying they can be trusted. The OP was saying that somehow we can trust other games, but can't trust this one, because they made their server known. If you read my post, you'd know I actually made you very same point:


My point was, none of them can be trusted with data, so why single this one out? They made the mistake of making their server known, which people got upset about it. That's it.

All good. Ty for that response, btw. I mentioned C.A. because of the "trust" factor.
Imho? I dislike any form of data gathering... But there's a huge difference between the use of Unity Analytics and DarkSilver's DRM. The forced online factor makes the user vulnerable to whatever comes up in D.S.'s mind. And no, I (for some odd reason) don't trust anyone just because they're a adult game dev. on Patreon. Or when they tell me on this forum they're just using such a DRM as a great service and protect my privacy. *smirk* I'm a little weird ... I know.

 

[Deleted member 54063]

Yeah, I understand what you mean RE protection we have. While it might be difficult for folks in the west to hold someone in Russia accountable, we're not powerless.

Reporting abuse to outlets that people use (such as Patreon) would hurt their ability to earn money.

So the question you have to ask is, would he risk that? He got rid of his most profitable game just to ensure he stayed on Patreon. He, as you've said, is not Steam or any of the developers on there. He has more to lose.

But, getting back to the concern RE personal security. It doesn't require an always online game to install something harmful on your PC. Any of the games on here can do that very easily, and when there are concerns about such a thing, as has happened in the past, people check the games to see whats up.

 

[Ennoch]

We aren't going to add a keylogger nor are we collecting any data that we are able to sell, but, you see, the point stands that we are all collecting your data.

Reassuring Anyway, i still consider this apprach that DS enforces an alarming one.

 

[Jack-O]

But hey, we can all decide what we want to do with it. I'm not going to bother with a game like Glamour, just because of it. This site is packed with other great games!

Wouldn't mind if games like this get a VERY visible warning in the OP (alsong as it's not cracked), though...

 

[Ennoch]

Wouldn't mind if games like this get a VERY visible warning in the OP (alsong as it's not cracked), though...

I'd very much like to see something like that in case it can stay.

 

[Grubb]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Its Dark Silver, are you fucking serious?

Yes.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Yes.

You know that Big Brother made 25 thousand dollars a month, right? I assume you didn't or you'd know how ignorant you're being.

 

[Ennoch]

You know that Big Brother made 25 thousand dollars a month, right? I assume you didn't or you'd know how ignorant you're being.

Normally that would mean i shouldn't worry about this at all, earning that much would make him think twice to do something stupid but.. sadly thats not how things work in life.