Has Anyone Ever Got Sued over Parodys?

[Deleted member 5302499]

I want to produce a MHA Parody one day, I'm currently learning Renpy and how to draw but when I search about Japan's laws of copyright I can't get a concrete idea of what could happen, people call it a gray area where it's illegal but they turn a blind eye most of the time. I know that here there are al least 7 (each varying in quality and popularity) about MHA, and more with the characters in crossovers and have not heard of any of them getting in trouble (like being asked to stop, change character's name and appearance or straight getting sued), but other games had issues, Pokemon had a porn parody cancelled by Nintendo. Divini Adventure (A DB Parody) got DMCA and the dev had to change the game's name (it was Dragon Ball Infinity) and exclude all the DB posts in Patreon. Similar things happened to different MLP Parodies in the past. So it does not seem to have any sorta of consistence when it comes to those things. Have there ever being an specific statement that would make it clear about making a MHA parody and having a Patreon as well?
PS.: Toei (Who owns Dragon Ball and MHA also sued someone over a Dragon Ball Mod, but never heard a similar case for MHA even though it gotta the Anime/Manga with most parodies here, Something Unlimited also had an issue over the name, it was Injustice Unlimited before but that now they seem fine, they even post stuff about the game on Patreon without locking it).

 

[Deleted member 827972]

There was a great MLP game that got sued.
The dev spoked about this, funny thing the dev didnt even bother to do another game, looks like he got tired for good of this.

 

[Deleted member 5302499]

There was a great MLP game that got sued.
The dev spoked about this, funny thing the dev didnt even bother to do another game, looks like he got tired for good of this.

But how much sued he got? he was asked to stop or they forced him to pay s legal fee?

 

[Deleted member 827972]

But how much sued he got? he was asked to stop or they forced him to pay s legal fee?

https://f95zone.to/threads/pony-tale-adventures-v0-4-0-sneaky-kitty.15541/page-2

 

[Deleted member 5302499]

https://f95zone.to/threads/pony-tale-adventures-v0-4-0-sneaky-kitty.15541/page-2

The copyright statement is in page 15 in case someone wants to see in detail. It seems that per law (anyone can correct me on that) they need to send a C&D first before doing anything. Another theory that I have is that either those MHA Parody's are not known by Toei, or they aren't too big to bother a hunt on them. But a thing that I noticed about almost all Parodies in this website is that they never follow the Anime Story (FET does it loosely and Survey Corps is still very new), so maybe they see it all as parody and don't mind. Since I want to make my game heavily story-wise I don't think I have anything else to compare. So still on the fence on it.

 

[Dukez]

Using another's IP is always risky business and you should never be surprised if the day came that it gets shutdown or worse. You'd be better off doing a parody on something you can't get DCMA'd/Sued over and that being like a parody of a game that uses Illusion software since technically, AFAIK, you can't claim ownership over what's made with their software so they shouldn't have any real ground to do anything about it.

I could be wrong though, so anyone feel free to correct me if that's the case.

 

[chainedpanda]

I remember a Pokemon game got DMCA'd, but don't know if they actually got sued or not.

 

[Belphegor007]

Using another's IP is always risky business and you should never be surprised if the day came that it gets shutdown or worse. You'd be better off doing a parody on something you can't get DCMA'd/Sued over and that being like a parody of a game that uses Illusion software since technically, AFAIK, you can't claim ownership over what's made with their software so they shouldn't have any real ground to do anything about it.

I could be wrong though, so anyone feel free to correct me if that's the case.

You are still the one infringing their copy right so of course you can be sued.

The important thing to know is that any company can send you a cease and desist on your parody game so you just don't mention the actual thing you are parodying on your Patreon and just hope they ignore you like they do for 99% of games

 

[anne O'nymous]

It seems that per law (anyone can correct me on that) they need to send a C&D first before doing anything.

They can perfectly sue you directly. But of course this will have a cost, and when it come to a small indie dev who just make few bucks with his game, they can't expect much more from the trial than a C&D equivalent ; even if the dev is sentenced to pay whatever sum of money, he don't have it and will probably don't have enough of his own life time to have it.
Therefore, there's no benefit in suing an indie dev. Scaring him with a C&D notice, and the vision of a future will he'll have to pay for a lawyer, face a judge, and pass his life paying, is enough and cost them less.
It's also more safe for their own image. It's a "we protect our IP, but we don't want to destroy your life" versus "to protect our IP, we are ready to transform anyone's life into an eternal hell" situation. It would be ridiculous to protect your IP in one hand, and to, in the same time, damage all your IPs by showing the image of a company that wouldn't hesitate to crush a teenage life because he would make the wrong drawing.

Edit: Nintendo having shown how disastrous it can be in terms of image when you follow the hard way right from the starts. To the point that even Disney now starts with a C&D when it come to the few indie devs on the adult gaming scene that they goes after.

 

[Belphegor007]

They can perfectly sue you directly. But of course this will have a cost, and when it come to a small indie dev who just make few bucks with his game, they can't expect much more from the trial than a C&D equivalent ; even if the dev is sentenced to pay whatever sum of money, he don't have it and will probably don't have enough of his own life time to have it.
Therefore, there's no benefit in suing an indie dev. Scaring him with a C&D notice, and the vision of a future will he'll have to pay for a lawyer, face a judge, and pass his life paying, is enough and cost them less.
It's also more safe for their own image. It's a "we protect our IP, but we don't want to destroy your life" versus "to protect our IP, we are ready to transform anyone's life into an eternal hell" situation. It would be ridiculous to protect your IP in one hand, and to, in the same time, damage all your IPs by showing the image of a company that wouldn't hesitate to crush a teenage life because he would make the wrong drawing.

Did you forget Nintendo exists?

 

[anne O'nymous]

Did you forget Nintendo exists?

Well, since there's people who apparently shouldn't be on this site because too young, I'll edit my post to state the obvious...

 

[Count Morado]

TL;DR - If you are actually worried about the possible legal ramifications of your actions, you should consult an attorney with experience in the gaming industry or, at the very least, copyright/IP issues. People on here are not attorneys; they are not experts in the law - particularly for your country/region. You should not trust your legal exposure, potential income, and possible lifelong consequences to strangers on the internet. Even if there are attorneys which frequent this site - they are not going to give you any answer except: it depends, you should set up a consultation with an attorney.

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[Belphegor007]

TL;DR - If you are actually worried about the possible legal ramifications of your actions, you should consult an attorney with experience in the gaming industry or, at the very least, copyright/IP issues. People on here are not attorneys; they are not experts in the law - particularly for your country/region. You should not trust your legal exposure, potential income, and possible lifelong consequences to strangers on the internet. Even if there are attorneys which frequent this site - they are not going to give you any answer except: it depends, you should set up a consultation with an attorney.

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Yeah just drop a bunch of money on a lawyer that's a great plan. The lawyer will just advise you not to do it.
You will probably go unnoticed if you are smart, but if you are noticed then will send a cease and desist and then simply delete everything and quit or do a new project that doesn't involve them under a different name.

This is a legal grey area where you will always lose so if you are afraid of the law or rights holders don't bother

 

[MissFortune]

Yeah just drop a bunch of money on a lawyer that's a great plan.

Most copyright/IP lawyers charge per hour (as do most lawyers that don't work for celebrities), oft $250. To cover your ass, that isn't a lot. And many of the smaller ones offer free consultations to keep people returning for other issues/endeavors and/or word of mouth.

Fair Use is still Fair Use. Parody is still Parody. If the story is changed, and there's meaningful new content added, a good copyright/IP lawyer will usually win. If you're going up against Nintendo or Disney? You're just fucked either way. They'll just keep pushing the case until you run out of money.

 

[Belphegor007]

Most copyright/IP lawyers charge per hour (as do most lawyers that don't work for celebrities), oft $250. To cover your ass, that isn't a lot. And many of the smaller ones offer free consultations to keep people returning for other issues/endeavors and/or word of mouth.

Fair Use is still Fair Use. Parody is still Parody. If the story is changed, and there's meaningful new content added, a good copyright/IP lawyer will usually win. If you're going up against Nintendo or Disney? You're just fucked either way. They'll just keep pushing the case until you run out of money.

And do you understand how large the parent companies of manga publishers are?
Also good luck ever getting a jury to side with a pornographer who does porn of young adult franchises.

As I said if you are actually afraid enough to see a lawyer you should fucking quit right now

 

[MissFortune]

And do you understand how large the parent companies of manga publishers are?
Also good luck ever getting a jury to side with a pornographer who does porn of young adult franchises.

Sans perhaps Toei, they're really ants comparatively. They'd likely pull the same tactics if it were to ever go to court. I say all that to say that most people will only ever see a C&D. It's rarely worth it for these companies to go after a small indie dev making a few hundred dollars, maybe a couple grand for the lucky ones. If they were the size of DPC/BaD, then we might be having a different conversation.

Also, jury? It's rare these things ever go to trial, wouldn't be worth it for either side. Nine times out of ten, this is done in a courtroom with five people in it. There's even a lot that never see a courtroom or are just done in the chambers.

 

[Count Morado]

Most copyright/IP lawyers charge per hour (as do most lawyers that don't work for celebrities), oft $250. To cover your ass, that isn't a lot. And many of the smaller ones offer free consultations to keep people returning for other issues/endeavors and/or word of mouth.

Fair Use is still Fair Use. Parody is still Parody. If the story is changed, and there's meaningful new content added, a good copyright/IP lawyer will usually win. If you're going up against Nintendo or Disney? You're just fucked either way. They'll just keep pushing the case until you run out of money.

I agree with your first paragraph - free or discounted initial consultations are common.

Your second paragraph is ill-informed in the first half. Fair Use and Parody are not slam dunks. Neither is the transformative claim. Even with what a person might consider are significant changes. And even if someone is able to successfully defend while using a claim of transformative, fair use, or parody - that $250-$400 per hour for attorney fees, $75-$150 per hour for paralegal fees, court filing fees, discovery fees, interrogatory and deposition fees, etc ... add up to $10,000 (or more) fast - that's fewer than 25-40 hours of attorney time --- that could be logged within 5 depositions, easily.

And do you understand how large the parent companies of manga publishers are?
Also good luck ever getting a jury to side with a pornographer who does porn of young adult franchises.

As I said if you are actually afraid enough to see a lawyer you should fucking quit right now

I agree with your final sentence. Actually, that's my personal advice right up front. Just don't do it. Period. Create your own content.

As for your second question - I can't remember a copyright/IP case that went before a jury. Their might be some - but because of the amount of jargon and technical aspects involved with such a case - having a jury decide copyright is a bad idea for either side. If it goes to court, which is very rare, it's a bench decision. There is also arbitration/mediation - which is more common, whether court ordered or agreed upon by the parties.

As we all have said or implied - Cease and Desist orders usually stop the vast majority of violators from continuing. Violators usually aren't making enough to be able to afford adequate legal representation in defending their claim. It's the big names that go the full court gambit - George Harrison, Vanilla Ice (LOL), Andy Warhol Foundation, VNG are just a few that come to mind.

 

[MissFortune]

I agree with your first paragraph - free or discounted initial consultations are common.

Your second paragraph is ill-informed in the first half. Fair Use and Parody are not slam dunks. Neither is the transformative claim. And even if someone is able to successfully defend while using a claim of transformative, fair use, or parody - that $250-$400 per hour for attorney fees, $75-$150 for paralegal fees, court filing fees, discovery fees, interrogatory and deposition fees, etc ... add up to $10,000 (or more) fast - that's fewer than 25-40 hours of attorney time --- that could be logged within 5 depositions, easily.

I was referring to those who don't offer free/discounted consultations. Some, mostly bigger ones, will charge that for the consultation. But I have a hard time seeing consultations going over an hour. The one's I've been a part of (granted, they weren't for copyright) weren't near that long. Of course, if you're going to court and being represented, then yeah, those prices are going way up. But if you do manage to win, you could attempt to countersue for a frivolous lawsuit and have the legal fees covered.

I'm no lawyer, but I know a few in different realms, so I'm semi-educated, but not really enough to give rock solid advice (nor would I in any real context.). As far as fair use goes, I never said it was a slam dunk, but there's a pretty obvious line. If you're taking the characters and using the same storylines from the original base media, then yeah. That's probably not fair use/parody. But if you're just using the characters (the smart choice would be to change the designs up a bit), the universe, and your own storylines, then it's definitely a more winnable case. Again, provided you could afford to fight through it. Which is, again, unlikely for most people.

 

[Belphegor007]

I agree with your first paragraph - free or discounted initial consultations are common.

Your second paragraph is ill-informed in the first half. Fair Use and Parody are not slam dunks. Neither is the transformative claim. Even with what a person might consider are significant changes. And even if someone is able to successfully defend while using a claim of transformative, fair use, or parody - that $250-$400 per hour for attorney fees, $75-$150 per hour for paralegal fees, court filing fees, discovery fees, interrogatory and deposition fees, etc ... add up to $10,000 (or more) fast - that's fewer than 25-40 hours of attorney time --- that could be logged within 5 depositions, easily.
I agree with your final sentence. Actually, that's my personal advice right up front. Just don't do it. Period. Create your own content.

As for your second question - I can't remember a copyright/IP case that went before a jury. Their might be some - but because of the amount of jargon and technical aspects involved with such a case - having a jury decide copyright is a bad idea for either side. If it goes to court, which is very rare, it's a bench decision. There is also arbitration/mediation - which is more common, whether court ordered or agreed upon by the parties.

As we all have said or implied - Cease and Desist orders usually stop the vast majority of violators from continuing. Violators usually aren't making enough to be able to afford adequate legal representation in defending their claim. It's the big names that go the full court gambit - George Harrison, Vanilla Ice (LOL), Andy Warhol Foundation, VNG are just a few that come to mind.

Music copy right infringement cases have gone in front of juries

 

[Count Morado]

I was referring to those who don't offer free/discounted consultations. Some, mostly bigger ones, will charge that for the consultation. But I have a hard time seeing consultations going over an hour. The one's I've been a part of (granted, they weren't for copyright) weren't near that long. Of course, if you're going to court and being represented, then yeah, those prices are going way up. But if you do manage to win, you could attempt to countersue for a frivolous lawsuit and have the legal fees covered.

I'm no lawyer, but I know a few in different realms, so I'm semi-educated, but not really enough to give rock solid advice (nor would I in any real context.). As far as fair use goes, I never said it was a slam dunk, but there's a pretty obvious line. If you're taking the characters and using the same storylines from the original base media, then yeah. That's probably not fair use/parody. But if you're just using the characters (the smart choice would be to change the designs up a bit), the universe, and your own storylines, then it's definitely a more winnable case. Again, provided you could afford to fight through it. Which is, again, unlikely for most people.

Your idea about the possibility to countersue for frivolous lawsuit would be frivolous. If a person is using IP content, even if they successfully defend against a copyright - any claim that such a case against them would be frivolous would be... frivolous itself.

The claim that different storylines and different universes making it "definitely" a more winnable case is also flawed. Copyright/IP lawsuits are very convoluted and have gone down to detailed minutiae from both the plaintiff and the respondent. One of the elements considered in copyright cases is whether the reputation of the content/owner is damaged in the use being questioned. Another is if the "average person" could be confused on whether it is official content. There are a lot of variables involved. It can be even the width and style of the lining of the art - that's how specific these cases can get. Not much is definite in the courts. And copyright/IP law is very specialized for a reason - on both sides of the topic.

I do agree that most people could not afford a copyright/IP legal claim.

Music copy right infringement cases have gone in front of juries

Yup. As soon as I read your response - I thought of Ed Sheeran.