VN Ren'Py Healslut [v0.92a] [Davie Zwei]

Laughingfox · Aug 9, 2020

Ah, sorry about that. It honestly felt a little preachy and presumptious, riding off a new low in 'one of those days' that seemed unessessary, thus I gave it a honorable death. I did, however, zip through the current game a couple more times checking out the story and various threads answering a couple of my own questions.

But hey, you asked, and I'm stuck indoors looking after family atm, so I've got plenty o time to write. Soooooo... incomin' wall 'o text.

First and foremost, this is all just my opinon, ja? Not worth any more or less than any other, nor do I claim otherwise.

Glorious Things With Stuff I'd Love to See:

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3) Make us Dare to Care

Kayden isn't the only problem child. You have the blessing and curse of making a clever, fun, potentially fantastic porn game that respects our intelligence. What a thorny path to tread!

But off the top of my head regarding the cast(aside from Kayden):

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JaegerMister · Aug 9, 2020

Laughingfox said:
Ah, sorry about that. It honestly felt a little preachy and presumptious, riding off a new low in 'one of those days' that seemed unessessary, thus I gave it a honorable death. I did, however, zip through the current game a couple more times checking out the story and various threads answering a couple of my own questions.

But hey, you asked, and I'm stuck indoors looking after family atm, so I've got plenty o time to write. Soooooo... incomin' wall 'o text.

First and foremost, this is all just my opinon, ja? Not worth any more or less than any other, nor do I claim otherwise.

Glorious Things With Stuff I'd Love to See:

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3) Make us Dare to Care

Kayden isn't the only problem child. You have the blessing and curse of making a clever, fun, potentially fantastic porn game that respects our intelligence. What a thorny path to tread!

But off the top of my head regarding the cast(aside from Kayden):

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I actually agree heavily with most of the things in this list, especially in regards to Roopah. I'd love to learn more about her as her layers and defenses are stripped further and further away. The few times she does show tenderness or affection towards Sparkle, even while keeping up her abrasive personality, are hinting more and more at who she is behind that armor, the scared, lonely girl desperate for affection and attention but doesn't know how to handle it once it's given. I think I gave a pretty accurate analysis of who Roopah is as a character, unless Davie wants to come in and flat out tell me I'm so off base I'm in another galaxy entirely

but I do agree that her best content, i.e.: starting to strip those layers away and learning more and more about her is kind of locked behind a Roopah loyalty route. And while that is my personal favorite route, it does kinda suck that you can't (at least so far, but this may change later) start to see this other side of her without basically saying I want her out right. I think her and Sparkle could be really good friends even without the sexual component, as long as Sparkle has her back and proves she's trustworthy. I agree with your assessment of Kayden entirely. Lel is an interesting case... She's a very unique character. In a lot of aspects. Leigh... well I'm not entirely sure if this is true, but I think it's possible to have

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and as I've said before he's an asshat. Fuck that bastard. Panki I can agree with as well. Twig I'd absolutely love to see either become an actual serious option, or if you're being a total slut with your Sparkle, as you seem to be being, a competition buddy. Champ, eh, not really interested in him beyond banter with Twig because yes, these two idiots together never cease to make me smile, but if that floats your boat. I am interested in seeing what Jane brings to MEGAREAL and the group as a whole, since Gab decides to bring her in as a Druid and give her heal spells, which could severely jeopardize Sparkles role in the party, but a shape-shifting class opens up so many possibilities. Now we come to Ooyum. Ooyum is a character I like, there's no doubt about this, as her personality is a gold mine... but sexually she kills my boner faster than a bucket of ice water. Sorry, but as a few people may know, I absolutely loathe huge tits, and Ooyum not only has those, they're always, always on display. While I love her dialogue, she'll instantly ruin any boner I may be getting simply because those cowtits are always on display and I can't avoid seeing them. But more of her as a character? Absolutely... but maybe please have an option to cover those damn udders. Harmony, well, I've stated before I'd love exploring her more, as she has so much potential, but...Roopah exists, therefore Harmony, as with Wejit or Ooyum, is relegated to BroTP. Wejit is the bro, always. He's my main homie and my wingman. This guy is the best, hands down.

In conclusion? I'd basically like to see most of the things you want. You've got a really good list of things here and I don't think you're being presumptuous nor preachy. You have a clear, thought out view of things you'd like to see for a VN you really enjoy. Nothing wrong with that.

Zaraia · Aug 9, 2020

Laughingfox said:
Her act of cackling 'milkslut' and walking away in one particular path is particuarly annoying regarding this.

Seems perfectly in character to me.

Laughingfox said:
Lel

She's kind of all over the place.

The point of Lel is that she's at the very bottom of the hierarchy, and if Sparkle shows too much kindness and then plays her cards wrong she can find herself even below Lel, which is extra-humiliating considering the buildup. I for one really like this kind of hierarchy-play in this game. I think my favourite parts of the whole game were when Lel starts being strict with Sparkle, and how unfair it seems considering how nice Sparkle was to her before. And by the way I also like what both Kayden and Lel hinted at, that Sparkle doesn't know what Lel is really like. I hope we'll get to see what they meant.

In fact to me "hierarchy-play" is what the game is all about, which is why I'd object to your ideas on Sparkle "slutting it up" together with every other female character. Sparkle is supposed to be the slut, if the game just becomes one giant fuckfest in every direction that would ruin the impact of that.

Laughingfox said:
Just because Sparkle opts to see to their needs doesn't mean she needs to be demeaned or treated as less

Again, I think her degradation, even if it's done playfully or teasingly, is a big part of what the game is about. I did say earlier that I'd welcome an alternative dominant path, but I wouldn't want it to be at the expense of the sub path.

JaegerMister · Aug 9, 2020

Zaraia said:
Seems perfectly in character to me.

The point of Lel is that she's at the very bottom of the hierarchy, and if Sparkle shows too much kindness and then plays her cards wrong she can find herself even below Lel, which is extra-humiliating considering the buildup. I for one really like this kind of hierarchy-play in this game. I think my favourite parts of the whole game were when Lel starts being strict with Sparkle, and how unfair it seems considering how nice Sparkle was to her before. And by the way I also like what both Kayden and Lel hinted at, that Sparkle doesn't know what Lel is really like. I hope we'll get to see what they meant.

In fact to me "hierarchy-play" is what the game is all about, which is why I'd object to your ideas on Sparkle "slutting it up" together with every other female character. Sparkle is supposed to be the slut, if the game just becomes one giant fuckfest in every direction that would ruin the impact of that.

Again, I think her degradation, even if it's done playfully or teasingly, is a big part of what the game is about. I did say earlier that I'd welcome an alternative dominant path, but I wouldn't want it to be at the expense of the sub path.

I can understand your view point, but honestly? The degradation does get kind of fucking annoying after awhile. It can make sense in certain cases, i.e:becoming the loot whore in Lels place, being on the Roopah sub path, being the free use slut of the group, etc., but I don't think that it should continue after a certain point if you're NOT on any of those paths because it wouldn't logically make any sense. As the game progresses and more and more comes to light, seeing the party lighten up in their mistreatment of Sparkle, or even just specific characters lighten up in their mistreatment of Sparkle will go a hell of a long way in keeping my interest in this VN. Panki is pretty much the only one in the group not named Wejit, Twig, Champ or Harmony to not be a total dick to Sparkle without progressing down specific routes. Basically she's the only main party member that isn't an asshat to Sparkle without you dedicating yourself to them. If it just continues all the way to the end and ends up being just a constant shit on Sparkle fest, I'll, as much as I'll hate to do it, end up dropping this VN hard. If in a few more updates to this VN no progress has been made regarding the groups treatment of Sparkle after all she's done for them up to this point, and it's a hell of a lot more than anyone in the party except maybe Wejit, Panki or Harmony is willing to admit, then it's not going to get better and I'm not okay with that. I can't say for certain exactly what Davie is trying to accomplish with this VN, but if it's just heap abuse on Sparkle no matter what, then this VN will lose any goodwill I have towards it. Treating a character like scum when it isn't warranted isn't cool, especially one who's been so goddamn loyal to this group, even despite her mistreatment at the hands of most of it's members.

Laughingfox · Aug 9, 2020

Agree to disagree then Zaraia. That or pistols at dawn.

For myself, rewarding kindness with treachery is a shitty stance to take. There is even a a possible response from Lel in there where she essentially murmurs she "thought you'd be happy" after Sparkle voices her discontent. So yes, there is obviously a lot more going on than what is on the surface level, and it's unlikely the two are going to see eye to eye despite looking at the very same thing.

I don't control the characters, but I do get to own my own feelz. Just because the world or characters are beholden to this form of hiearchy thinking doesn't mean the players avatar has to follow suit, much less accept it. So that's how my Healslut is gonna roll, if at all possible. Will I eventually change my mind, or perhaps having a meeting of ideals somewhere in the middle once more of the mystery is revealed? Anything is possible.

Thankfully, that's the glory of multiple options in a story. There are no wrong answers when it's regarding your own opinion, after all.

JaegerMister · Aug 9, 2020

Laughingfox said:
Agree to disagree then Zaraia. That or pistols at dawn.

For myself, rewarding kindness with treachery is a shitty stance to take. There is even a a possible response from Lel in there where she essentially murmurs she "thought you'd be happy" after Sparkle voices her discontent. So yes, there is obviously a lot more going on than what is on the surface level, and it's unlikely the two are going to see eye to eye despite looking at the very same thing.

I don't control the characters, but I do get to own my own feelz. Just because the world or characters are beholden to this form of hiearchy thinking doesn't mean the players avatar has to follow suit, much less accept it. So that's how my Healslut is gonna roll, if at all possible. Will I eventually change my mind, or perhaps having a meeting of ideals somewhere in the middle once more of the mystery is revealed? Anything is possible.

Thankfully, that's the glory of multiple options in a story. There are no wrong answers when it's regarding your own opinion, after all.

You good sir are a man after my own heart

Sou_Suzumi · Aug 9, 2020

OK, that fucking goblin kills my boner.

And I assume not only there's no way to get rid of him, but I'll most certainly be forced into some disgusting sex scene with him, right?

The idea of the game was cool, but I think it'll be a hard pass for me.

daviezwei · Aug 9, 2020

Sou_Suzumi said:
OK, that fucking goblin kills my boner.

And I assume not only there's no way to get rid of him, but I'll most certainly be forced into some disgusting sex scene with him, right?

The idea of the game was cool, but I think it'll be a hard pass for me.

You can indeed 'get rid' of him early in the story, just after the first dungeon dive. And no, you are never forced into sex with anyone in this game. The only exception is a choice to give blanket consent to your party members for sexual activities.

Sou_Suzumi · Aug 9, 2020

daviezwei said:
You can indeed 'get rid' of him early in the story, just after the first dungeon dive. And no, you are never forced into sex with anyone in this game. The only exception is a choice to give blanket consent to your party members for sexual activities.

Hmm, OK then, I guess I'll try going a bit further. Thanks for the reply.

Joe Steel · Aug 9, 2020

Sou_Suzumi said:
OK, that fucking goblin kills my boner.

And I assume not only there's no way to get rid of him, but I'll most certainly be forced into some disgusting sex scene with him, right?

The idea of the game was cool, but I think it'll be a hard pass for me.

Your assumptions are both wrong, but don't let that stop you from avoiding this game.

JaegerMister · Aug 10, 2020

Joe Steel said:
Your assumptions are both wrong, but don't let that stop you from avoiding this game.

lil nonveg · Aug 10, 2020

how do I get the blowjob scene with wejit??

1zaza1 · Aug 10, 2020

Sort of what the others are saying. I'm definitely playing the sub route, but you could have basically two main routes: competent dom/ incompetent sub (there are other permutations, but this binary might be simpler). If you fuck up, you get fucked up. You're the bottom bitch, your powers get nerfed, all the good stuff we're getting so far. If you do things well, your party respects you and you become the leader that holds them together with +100 to charisma. You deal no damage, but you buff, you control, you heal, all with the caveat that you have to get fucked.

You're an angry, unsocial guy (or girl) who doesn't play well in a team and you're coping with the loss of your sister. If you're competent, you become respected. If you're not, you become a part of something bigger than yourself. Either way, you form friendships and relationships. This seems to me like a logical arc. Just my 2c.

JaegerMister · Aug 10, 2020

1zaza1 said:
Sort of what the others are saying. I'm definitely playing the sub route, but you could have basically two main routes: competent dom/ incompetent sub (there are other permutations, but this binary might be simpler). If you fuck up, you get fucked up. You're the bottom bitch, your powers get nerfed, all the good stuff we're getting so far. If you do things well, your party respects you and you become the leader that holds them together with +100 to charisma. You deal no damage, but you buff, you control, you heal, all with the caveat that you have to get fucked.

You're an angry, unsocial guy (or girl) who doesn't play well in a team and you're coping with the loss of your sister. If you're competent, you become respected. If you're not, you become a part of something bigger than yourself. Either way, you form friendships and relationships. This seems to me like a logical arc. Just my 2c.

I get where you're going with that. And for the most part that is a pretty logical arc, but my counterargument would be the lack of logical progression made that's been displayed thus far. I love this VN, I'll be one of the first to freely admit that, however objectively speaking it does have it's weak points. While we may not agree on what those weak points are thus far (and with me saying we I don't mean us specifically as two individuals but the playerbase as whole) we are at least able to admit it. Now, my run may be vastly different from yours depending on decisions we make, however there are some that will fundamentally be the same in all playthroughs regardless, because you're only given the one option at the time. I.e: Wejit gets harmed by the Greater Demoness in the first dungeon dive, Sparkles quick applications of Soothing Stroke to Wejit and the undead despite the very big risk it posed to her health, basically it almost killed her, but she did it without a second thought or a moments hesitation and it saved everyone's ass from an enemy they were in no way prepared to face. Her reward for a selfless move in the heat of battle that saved them all and almost cost her her life, a battle that mind you they wouldn't have even encountered if not for Kayden being Kayden? She comes back and it's immediately back to everyone shitting on Sparkle and whoops, now her power is nerfed on top of it. Heroic action for the greater good of the group rewarded with treachery. Their reason for doing so? She disappeared for a bit. So let's treat her like shit. Admittedly some characters have a better reason for doing so than others, Roopah's abandonment issues, Kayden's inherent inferiority complex that makes him have the unquenchable desire to prove that he's the best leader, even though he's slowly descending further and further into losing his humanity etc. It's still a pretty fucked way to reward something like that. You could make the argument that Sparkle doing so was reckless and yeah it was, but did she really deserve to immediately have shit heaped on her from all directions after basically saving everyone's ass from what was probably sure death? I'd argue no, she didn't. Newest arrival to the party or not, a move like that would earn some serious respect. And on some levels it does with certain characters, but the abuse makes the respect it earns seem meaningless in retrospect, and it shouldn't be.

Esti · Aug 10, 2020

Laughingfox said:
rewarding kindness with treachery is a shitty stance to take

But it could be interesting if Lel would become this evil dominant bitch taking control over the party in the end. I mean that's the only way I can really see Lel doing something like that.

Laughingfox · Aug 10, 2020

True, that's a possible twist. It's a good position to scheme without interruption.. assuming she's left to her own devices and not 'managed' like Sparkle is on her service path. Or one of the crew is actually part of the team turning/glitching the world upside down in the first place.

Or they are both on it. Conspiracy yarn time!

Or, or, the reason things keep going pear shaped is because just as Sparkle/protag has a watcher, perhaps another group has been enjoying the show and using the adventure and their lives as a grand experiment to see just how much (or how little) it takes to break them.

Or, or, or it could be as simple as self-proclaimed digital gods having a pissing match and the heroes are the chess pieces.

"Yeah, you think you can take my crew?! 1v1 me, brah!"

..Nobody said they had to be particuarly competent or clever gods.

@lil nonveg
My memory is a bit hazy, but if you've given him (Weijit) some heavy petting in earlier chapters, and of course didn't leave him back in the dungeon and take Ooyum instead, you should get the option to go a little above and beyond tending to his needs in the ship. It may require you not to investigate the murder to have the free time, though.

None of my current saves have variables like not giving him weapons, or treating him like dirt, so that may also be a factor.

lil nonveg · Aug 10, 2020

Laughingfox said:
True, that's a possible twist. It's a good position to scheme without interruption.. assuming she's left to her own devices and not 'managed' like Sparkle is on her service path. Or one of the crew is actually part of the team turning/glitching the world upside down in the first place.

Or they are both on it. Conspiracy yarn time!

Or, or, the reason things keep going pear shaped is because just as Sparkle/protag has a watcher, perhaps another group has been enjoying the show and using the adventure and their lives as a grand experiment to see just how much (or how little) it takes to break them.

Or, or, or it could be as simple as self-proclaimed digital gods having a pissing match and the heroes are the chess pieces.

"Yeah, you think you can take my crew?! 1v1 me, brah!"

..Nobody said they had to be particuarly competent or clever gods.

@lil nonveg
My memory is a bit hazy, but if you've given him (Weijit) some heavy petting in earlier chapters, and of course didn't leave him back in the dungeon and take Ooyum instead, you should get the option to go a little above and beyond tending to his needs in the ship. It may require you not to investigate the murder to have the free time, though.

None of my current saves have variables like not giving him weapons, or treating him like dirt, so that may also be a factor.

thanks mate..

Zaraia · Aug 10, 2020

JaegerMister said:
Treating a character like scum when it isn't warranted isn't cool

Laughingfox said:
rewarding kindness with treachery is a shitty stance to take

I meeeeean... so? We're not discussing the worthiness of real life people here, but the path taken by a fictional story. Characters in a story don't all have to be perfect, or even good. And to me the unfairness of treatment is a big appeal in this particular story. In my sense there is nothing wrong with the way the story is developing right now.

But as you both said, choices and options is where it's at. I think it'd be great if there was a path where Sparkle gets the respect she "deserves", but she should have to stand up for herself in order to earn it, whereas if she's more of a pushover she should keep getting taken advantage of. Maybe that's something we could agree on? (and before someone says it's pretty irrelevant what we agree on, yes yes I know it's Davie's game but I just like talking about it)

Though while I was typing that about earning respect I just had a random idea so I'll just post it here. Anyone remember the team loyalty missions in Mass Effect 2? Perhaps Sparkle could have a quest that's specific to each character in order to earn their respect... and perhaps depending on dialogue options and certain actions during the quests themselves (I'm reminded of the line where Kayden asks Sparkle if it was her who got the sword for Panki or if it was Lel who did most of the work), it could have a respect outcome or a pushover outcome, which would impact that character's future behaviour towards Sparkle. Getting everyone's respect could make it possible for her to take a leadership role in the group.

Just a thought.

Zaraia · Aug 10, 2020

Esti said:
But it could be interesting if Lel would become this evil dominant bitch taking control over the party in the end. I mean that's the only way I can really see Lel doing something like that.

I think Davie must have something interesting in mind for Lel. Maybe not taking over the group, but I definitely think there should be something to Kayden's initial warning about her, and a path where Sparkle suffers the consequences of being too kind to her (well that's already a little bit the case now, but so far Lel has only barely abused her power).

JaegerMister · Aug 10, 2020

Zaraia said:
I meeeeean... so? We're not discussing the worthiness of real life people here, but the path taken by a fictional story. Characters in a story don't all have to be perfect, or even good. And to me the unfairness of treatment is a big appeal in this particular story. In my sense there is nothing wrong with the way the story is developing right now.

But as you both said, choices and options is where it's at. I think it'd be great if there was a path where Sparkle gets the respect she "deserves", but she should have to stand up for herself in order to earn it, whereas if she's more of a pushover she should keep getting taken advantage of. Maybe that's something we could agree on? (and before someone says it's pretty irrelevant what we agree on, yes yes I know it's Davie's game but I just like talking about it)

Though while I was typing that about earning respect I just had a random idea so I'll just post it here. Anyone remember the team loyalty missions in Mass Effect 2? Perhaps Sparkle could have a quest that's specific to each character in order to earn their respect... and perhaps depending on dialogue options and certain actions during the quests themselves (I'm reminded of the line where Kayden asks Sparkle if it was her who got the sword for Panki or if it was Lel who did most of the work), it could have a respect outcome or a pushover outcome, which would impact that character's future behaviour towards Sparkle. Getting everyone's respect could make it possible for her to take a leadership role in the group.

Just a thought.

God don't me started on Mass Effect please, I WILL gush for hours and nothing short of a complete thread ban could derail me. I don't think there's anything wrong with your view of things. Degradation play can be fun, I won't deny that. For me the issue is logical inconsistency. If certain options are chosen and certain events happen, the outcome should match up logically to those events. The degradation makes perfect sense on some routes and zero sense at all on others. I know that it might technically make sense based on character personalities for some such as Roopah or Kayden to still degrade you to an extent, such as Sparkle still having to prove her loyalty and devotion to Roopah and her dedication to the group to Kayden, but honestly? By the time the end of the murder investigation and Jane's introduction occur depending on your choices up to that point it really should, logically, start to lessen. I don't expect it to be gone completely within like the next two updates or something, there's still work to be done there on either one, but she's more than earned the reprieve at this point. Treating a character like scum if it isn't warranted isn't cool, either for party harmony from an in-universe standpoint or for character relationships after a certain period of time and certain decisions being made. It would be detrimental for say, someone on a dedicated Panki route to suddenly have Panki start making these jarringly out of character demands or directing pointless insults at Sparkle for no other reason than to make herself feel better about Sparkle occasionally popping off to the Matrix for a spell. It'd make no sense and degrade the relationship you've built to that point. Likewise for other romance options to CONTINUE with it after that point.

Logical consistency and natural feeling character progression, growth, relationship building and character interaction is incredibly important, especially to a VN that relies so heavily on it's character and world building the way this one does. I'm not saying the degradation is a bad thing in and of itself, just that at this point that we're in with the current update, it really should be starting to lessen more than it currently is and if it continues to happen from all characters throughout the course of the story when it's well passed the time it should have, by all reason, stopped? Then I'll drop this VN. I want my relationships and kinks associated with them to match my choices made thus far in my play through and honestly at this point, while some are going the way they feel they should others are not.

VN Ren'Py Healslut [v0.92a] [Davie Zwei]

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