Ren'Py Help, for a new creator of visual novel hentai.

[kraguto]

Good morning / afternoon / night.

my name is "kraguto" I recently decided to take the path of creating a visual hentai novel, based on anime characters.

[/IMG]


I am looking for your help and advice today.
especially for a small topic, I have two paths to choose from.
one is to continue creating a simple visual novel, based on a story. let him follow a path.
the other would be to make it more sandbox style (poor style) where the scenes were unlocked by means of points.
but for this I would like to have the opinion of the people.

what kind of game would be more pleasant. one where we have an almost totally linear story.
OR.
one where the story is more in the background and based more on unlocking the hentai scenes, through conversations.

Well, said this. I would also like to know, if you can ask. How to promote my game, could you give me some guidelines on this topic. if it is not allowed to ask about that. please, tell me and edit the post.

Also, I would like to know what they think about, what kind of rewards are appropriate in patreon.

 

[kimoo]

personally i prefer the deep story (specially the character development)
i don't like the point system which force me to choose certain decisions to open H-scenes

i don't like when the game totally based on writing like Japanese games that display only 1 image every 10 minute of reading

but let's wait for other's opinion too

 

[desmosome]

sandbox is cancer for VN! Well.. usually.

If you want to tell a good story with deep characters, use linear/branching VN format. If you want to make a shitty dating sim where you buy their affection with chocolate and shit, make a sandbox! Ok.. not every sandbox game is crap, but its a lot harder to do right from what I can tell.

 

[kraguto]

personally i prefer the deep story (specially the character development)
i don't like the point system which force me to choose certain decisions to open H-scenes

i don't like when the game totally based on writing like Japanese games that display only 1 image every 10 minute of reading

but let's wait for other's opinion too

thank you for your opinion, the truth at first, I thought to make a game more sandbox style, but ........... the truth is that when I start writing it, I hit a wall, a wall called. As demons I create a story based on the typical points and buy love.

for that reason I would like to know what the community of adult games thinks. what kind of game is better and I'm thinking that the sandbox mode is not the right one.

On the other hand, my fear with the semilinear side, is not to add so much content from the beginning, since this mode needs more presentation of the characters.

For the moment, I have at least thought for the November update, to continue with the more traditional format (although with a more focus based on more images, since I also consider that having 10 minutes of dialogue with only one background image, because it would look more like a book than a visual novel)

 

[kraguto]

sandbox is cancer for VN! Well.. usually.

If you want to tell a good story with deep characters, use linear/branching VN format. If you want to make a shitty dating sim where you buy their affection with chocolate and shit, make a sandbox! Ok.. not every sandbox game is crap, but its a lot harder to do right from what I can tell.

Thanks for your opinion. the truth is that I do not know how deep I can give the characters (since they are characters from well-known animes) but I try to have some depth. I thought in a beginning to make sandbos. But then, it would be a game where the options would be simply, earn money, buy an ice cream. earn more money, buy ten more ice cream and have sex with her.
That was my first choice, but I wanted my protagonist to be a little different and get sex in another way (in itself it's different, it's a chubby 27 years old, until now I only see or children with the appearance of 14 saying they have 18 or men androginos, good looking, who fuck their mothers till they look like 20 and that the relationship is based on two premises, money and mind control)

 

[desmosome]

Thanks for your opinion. the truth is that I do not know how deep I can give the characters (since they are characters from well-known animes) but I try to have some depth. I thought in a beginning to make sandbos. But then, it would be a game where the options would be simply, earn money, buy an ice cream. earn more money, buy ten more ice cream and have sex with her.
That was my first choice, but I wanted my protagonist to be a little different and get sex in another way (in itself it's different, it's a chubby 27 years old, until now I only see or children with the appearance of 14 saying they have 18 or men androginos, good looking, who fuck their mothers till they look like 20 and that the relationship is based on two premises, money and mind control)

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but hmm.. your English might lead to some issues unless you get a translator/editor. I wish the best on your project though!

 

[kraguto]

No problem, the part of my bad English, is what stops me from thinking if my game worked or not. for now I do not have how to pay for a translator, but I do manage to get some help through the game. I'll pay someone to translate.

 

[Deleted member 229118]

My experiance with visual novals has been a mixed bag.
A good story can drag you in.
A bad story makes you press that skip buttion.

One thing i HATE about visual novals is how they are just picture books without any gameplay.
But i play alot of choice of games so i might be a bit hypicritical.

Add to that most japaneese novels have the issu of culture difference.

In my opion visual novels can only work if you:
A: Dont give the protaganist(aka the player) Internal dialog.
The amount of times i wanted to kill the main charater because he woudnt shut up is one of the reasons i look at visual novels are pure evil.

B: Give choices that mather.
Branching paths kinda are choices but there not good once's.

On a whole i would much rather play a game who's rules i can manipulate(that is what a gamer is being all about. Being in control of your actions)
Then be forced to sit through a story about how some kid cant stop thinking about the robot he found on the dump for the 16 time.
I get it, you like her: SHUT UP ALREADY.

Stories also dont have repeative value like sandbox does.

A good example is lab rats 1.
The girls have a personalilty, You can spend time with them(sexual or otherwise).
The biggest complaint people had was the time limet(which was way to short but made sense storywise... Really my biggest problem always was that i just coudnt talk to nora enough to get it the pregnant harem ending)

I still replay the game from time to time simply because i like the story and i like the charaters.
When lab rat was in its early stage's it wasnt that good.
Lab rats 2 is also a good game but still inferior to lab rats 1 because it is too simple.
I hope vern will surpass with masterwork with lab rats 2 but in order to do that there needs to be a more emotional investedment.
I dont care for the npc in lab rats 2.

I personal think it would be better if you made the visual noval as a sort of sandbox.
There was just visual novel i tryed.
You had x time to seduce the 5 girls in the game.
While it wasnt good it was still miles above the useall crap they put into visual novels.
Simply because i could choice what to do.
Would i have a dinner with eve the silent sniper.
Would i train my stats.
Would i have enough time to charm my way into the captian pants.
The choices(limeted as they where) Where mine.

This is the important part.
Linear games can work if you give meaningfull choices.
Choices that change the outcome.
Failing because you made the wrong choice is acceptable.
A game over because you made the wrong choice(Unless it is really really really really stupid like pissing in a police cofee mug infront of said police offices) is unacceptable.
Failure doesnt mean game over.
It is a setback.
Nothing more.

 

[HopesGaming]

No right or wrong answers here.
There are no universally favored genre among the players. Some are people who like sandboxes, and then there are some people who like pure vn.

But the main issue I see here (and with all of these kinds of threads) is that you are trying to make a game based on what people like instead of what you like. Which one do you prefer? Sandbox or pure VN. (If both make a hybrid, that's what I did).
After that, you can find out what is liked and disliked at each of those paths.
I've gotten some smack for telling that to other people who wanted to start a game and asked for opinions, but the truth is, you can only get so far with a project you do not have a passion for. Especially if you do not hit the big bucks you dream of.

Also, I do not agree that internal dialogue is a bad thing. Only if done poorly.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Good morning / afternoon / night.

my name is "kraguto" I recently decided to take the path of creating a visual hentai novel, based on anime characters.

[/IMG]


I am looking for your help and advice today.
especially for a small topic, I have two paths to choose from.
one is to continue creating a simple visual novel, based on a story. let him follow a path.
the other would be to make it more sandbox style (poor style) where the scenes were unlocked by means of points.
but for this I would like to have the opinion of the people.

what kind of game would be more pleasant. one where we have an almost totally linear story.
OR.
one where the story is more in the background and based more on unlocking the hentai scenes, through conversations.

Well, said this. I would also like to know, if you can ask. How to promote my game, could you give me some guidelines on this topic. if it is not allowed to ask about that. please, tell me and edit the post.

Also, I would like to know what they think about, what kind of rewards are appropriate in patreon.

If you're making the porn the reward for playing your game you're doing it wrong. Even in the more sandboxy life sims, Long Live the Princess, Milfy City, Harem Hotel, and Mythic Manor, etc, there is a through-story with every girl. Long Live the Princess actually manages to add a narrative for the MC as well, which is amazing, because most life sims don't do that.

Then there's The Deluca Family, as Hope said above me here, he made that as a hybrid. The game has it's sandbox moments where you're free to roam and talk to everyone and do missions for the family, and it has it's VN style linear story elements that allow you to get more out of it. This has allowed him to, once again, create narratives for each girl individually, as well as an overarching narrative for the MC.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Harem Hotel, it's the only game thread I'm active in that I'm not the writer on. But I feel more fullfilled after playing something like Deluca or Princess.

Then there are the bad examples which sound even more like what you describe with your line "Scenes were unlocked by means of points". People like Man of the House, but it's the only life sim that is completely points based that makes the top 10. And if you talk to the people who are die hards for MotH, you'll quickly find that they complain about all the same things I complain about with the game, but give them all a pass because of how much they like faerin, the dev. And I get that. I think Runey is part of the reason I like Harem Hotel's thread as much as I do.

When you make a game that focuses all on the points though, you inevitably have people complain about grind, leading to the creation of mods and or dev created cheat modes that eliminate that grind and reduce your game to a string of mostly disconnected sex scenes with no narrative purpose. A person either comes away from your game feeling like they just did a chore to earn a fap, or with the empty feeling that they get from a meaningless fap.

 

[anne O'nymous]

If you're making the porn the reward for playing your game you're doing it wrong.

I know that we disagree on this point, but I still think that it can works... But for this, the game need to not be pure grinding. I mean that the points don't come from few actions that must be repeated again and again, but come from the natural flow of the game.
Take real life by example. When you were young, your parents rewarded you because you behaved. Help with the chores, clean your room, and at the end you've a little something. But it doesn't meant that you needed to help every day, nor help with everything. You decided by yourself. "Oh, mom is cleaning the dishes, I'll help her". "The fuck, I'm too tired, dad can clean the living room by itself today". And at the end of the month, your parents counted the virtual points you earned and decided of the level of the reward.
The same can apply in a game. But to be enjoyable it need to have more than one scene for each "point earning task". This to help the player feel that it's just the natural flow of life, and not forced repetitive actions. It can even lead to things like, "It's nice from you, but no, today I don't need help", which will still give you the point, because of the intention.

What really kill points based games is the lack of variety. If you clean your room to have the promised BJ, it will always be the same cleaning scene and the same promised BJ.
If the MC started there one time, then there the other time. If he had the possibility to cheat and put half of the mess under the bed (like we all did at least once) ; even if in fact it's a forced decision and not one made by the player. If the mother was sometimes more eager to do it, because the bedroom is perfectly clean, and sometimes more reluctant because, "what the fuck I see under the bed ?". If she sometimes said, "not today", but I promised that you'll have your BJ tomorrow.
So, in less words, "if it felt more real", there would be less complains.
You can also go with a more opened view regarding points. To keep the "help with the chore" example, each chore have it's own points, but the reward come from the total of those points... and what the reward will be depend of what you effectively did, or how much you did this or that. If you did just the minimum, mom will finally give you a handjob... and if you helped her every day, doing whatever you can to ease her task, she'll let you face fuck her like crazy, because you've earned it.
But to works, this must be obfuscated a little (which isn't easy with Ren'py). This way the player have to change his playing routine every week, because he want to see all the scenes. In the same times, it will increase the lust points of the mother. So the player don't feel the grinding behind the game, because he progress by doing repetitive tasks, but by doing them in a none repetitive way.

 

[DarthSeduction]

I know that we disagree on this point, but I still think that it can works... But for this, the game need to not be pure grinding. I mean that the points don't come from few actions that must be repeated again and again, but come from the natural flow of the game.

So, I'm not nearly as against point based game systems as I was 10 months ago when we met. In fact that conversation helped me a lot in coming to terms with how to use points in a way that still felt it had meaning, and with The Things We Do For Love, I'm still doing that. People were worried there weren't enough choices in the first release, but even with as few choices as they had there are already 4 branches in the first scene of the second release.

Take real life by example. When you were young, your parents rewarded you because you behaved. Help with the chores, clean your room, and at the end you've a little something. But it doesn't meant that you needed to help every day, nor help with everything. You decided by yourself. "Oh, mom is cleaning the dishes, I'll help her". "The fuck, I'm too tired, dad can clean the living room by itself today". And at the end of the month, your parents counted the virtual points you earned and decided of the level of the reward.
The same can apply in a game. But to be enjoyable it need to have more than one scene for each "point earning task". This to help the player feel that it's just the natural flow of life, and not forced repetitive actions. It can even lead to things like, "It's nice from you, but no, today I don't need help", which will still give you the point, because of the intention.

I get what you're saying here, and throughout the rest of the post, but there's still an issue for me in the fact that we are rewarding the player for these actions with sex. If instead, the rewards based on this were fluctuations in your allowance, or some form of other secondary award that the player can use to acquire things of value that might increase the variety in the sexual content, then we have something.

See, I see no value in sex if the other party doesn't want it just for the sake of it. Milfy City makes the mistake of actually using sex as a reward system twice already, once with Caroline, who is the weakest story for me, and once with the twins, who only beat Caroline in the fact that their entire line was based on rewarding you because I find them more attractive than I do her. Meanwhile, if you take a look at something like Mythic Manor or Harem Hotel, in spite of advances to sexual content all being based on points, they aren't about mundane tasks, points are earned in ways that relate to advancing the relationships. When you buy them a gift in Harem Hotel its usually something perverted, sex toys, hot outfits, etc. When it comes to Mythic Manor, each advancing activity is treated like a date, and as the dating advances you get more and more out of them sexually.

Even View of Family, which I now rate as only slightly better than you big brothers and man of the houses, the points are earned through repeated tasks, but those tasks are things that make sense. You promise your youngest sister to teach her sexual things if she takes care to study, so you help her with her studies for a while, and then you both get the reward of a sexual lesson. With the mother you give her foot rubs and spend time with her and this goes on till another date comes up with her. Sadly with the other little sister, I don't feel like this was done as well. In spite of a really big tease in how much she wants it in the first release, she ends up being the one who seemingly wants it the least, needing the most prodding, and even alcohol and even then it feels like sexual assault when we finally do something with her. Other girls have mostly been treated as relief girls.

But this is all the more sandboxy games using points systems. Then you have to look at their use in a VN. Dating my Daughter makes the biggest mistakes in this. The game has a perfect plot and narrative that removes the need for treating sex like a reward, and yet Dots has been dragging out the sexual content so that each time it's new and we feel rewarded for playing. The result has been the opposite, with so many people cursing how long this game has taken to get to anything good. Compare it to Parental Love which has far more to juggle, and the fact that by version 6 you had vaginal sex with your daughter without sacrificing a believable build-up, and while still seeding more drama to come and you can see that using sex as the reward for playing is completely wrong.

in the end, sex is why we are all playing these games. But when you treat the sexual content as a reward for the mundane task of playng the game, you slap us in the face. I play porn games rather than watching porn, not so that I have to work for it, but so that I can feel a connection to the content. When that connection is tainted by being some sort of exchange, you do this for me, and I'll do that for you, I feel as though the connection is weak, cheap, undesirable. These games often make the cast out to all be shit people who aren't really redeemable in any way. It makes it hard to feel what I am coming to adult games to feel when that happens.

 

[Domiek]

I'm not a fan of point systems and grinding in general, which is why one of the focuses of my game was "NO GRINDING". However, I still think it's possible to do a points system as long as how you acquire those points is done in an interesting way. Rather than the classic "Go to the gym -> click on bench press -> raise your strength by 1 -> "I'm too tired now, better go home and rest" -> repeat everyday for 5 days till you hit desired points to unlock scene, etc.

There could be more interesting ways of doing it if the "grind" mechanic is designed as a fun and integral part of the game. A lot of games, my own included, add the stat grind as an afterthought rather than a unique mechanic. Which is why I completely tossed all the grind/points out of the window before releasing my first version.

 

[redknight00]

As some already pointed out, there's no right and wrong answers, there's why and how they work in certain games.

VNs have a tighter plot and better flow if one writes it well, but also may feel too linear for some players. It's common to get to a point where the player would like to do something else than the options that are offered (or not) to the player.

On the other hand, sandboxes are great for playing with non-linear content, even if all you do is deconstruct your main plot in blocks and add side content, the player already has enough freedom to move the story at their own pace and if completely skip portions they don't like.

One game that does both non-linear and point based plot very well is Mythic Manor, the story is built on large block for the main girls with a lot of side content for both main and side girl and places to explore while the grind aspect is very low in comparison to the reward, nothing of repeating an event 10 times to progress, just once in a while you occupy the free time with work and use it later in the story or to buy something cool. That's a good example of a game that encourages and rewards the player to explore with very little grind. In fact the main grind is the novel kind of grind: reading, sometimes you just take a girl on a date and talk about family and job.

 

[anne O'nymous]

So, I'm not nearly as against point based game systems as I was 10 months ago when we met. In fact that conversation helped me a lot in coming to terms with how to use points in a way that still felt it had meaning, and with The Things We Do For Love, I'm still doing that.

I don't like things like "it's impossible", until myself found it impossible. So, my intent at this time was to show you that there's perhaps more possibility that what you seen at first. If it helped you found a way for one of your game, then it worked

See, I see no value in sex if the other party doesn't want it just for the sake of it.

Mostly I agree with you. To be true, I was more or less in a hurry when I wrote my comment, so I goes to the obvious and simple explanation, even if it's not what I prefer myself.

This said, in a basic corruption game, and in fact even a basic seduction one, it's difficult to place the sexual content if in the same time you use a point system. The points portray the corruption/seduction level, and the sexual content depend of this level. Making it not look too much like a reward need a strong work in the writing.
One of the possibility is to make your game in the same way that @HopesGaming did ; a mix between sandbox and visual novel. You'll have the sandbox that will let your earn the points, then when you finally have enough points, you'll have the scripted scene, where the girl will have all the time to give you her legitimate an natural motives to go further.
Badly wrote it will be a pure reward, but the girl can also explain that you've changed, you care less about yourself and more about the other, what make you more attractive. Therefore, she finally agree to fall for her long time feelings and give you a chance. It's still a reward, but it's more natural ; especially if you don't start directly with some sex.
To keep the "incest corruption" theme, at first the mother can confess that she feel more than maternal love for you and indirectly agree for you to try seducing her. Then, the more you achieve to seduce her, the more opened she'll be, until the day she finally agree to have sex with you. But, obviously, the "opening" part don't past through the usual kiss, HJ, BJ, etc. It's stupid. It will be more something like a more relaxed relationship, some innuendo situations, some kisses because it's the premise of sex yet still something innocent, and a more opened intimacy. So, more like in real life, where either she fuck on the first date, or you'll have to seduce her to win the right to do it.

Which lead to the problem I have... I understand your point of view, but still in real life sex tend to be, at first only, the reward. She agree to it because you played you cards well. The real problem with points based system is that it goes through this unrealistic kiss, HJ, BJ, etc. scheme. Either she agree to do sexual things with you, and fucking is not a real problem, or she didn't, and even a handjob is something you'll not have. Only teenagers works differently.
Ideally, the points should let you try new things, which can goes from "keeping the light on" to "full BSDM session", passing by "doing it outside of the bed" and "anal sex". It's still some kind of reward because it's seen through the eyes of the player of a game, but it's more "real life looking". Once again because it's how it works in real life. Your girl will not suddenly agree to anal sex unless you made her happy enough to offer you this pleasure.
As said the (misogynistic) joke :
"My husband came with flower yesterday... I had to kept my legs spread opened all night long."
"Poor girl, ask him to offer you a vase next time."

Sex isn't a reward, but you don't overpass the limit if you don't earn it in a way or another. It can be because you've been gentle enough (seduction path), like it can be because you managed to change her point of view (corruption path). But it's never because when she awaken this day, she suddenly decided, without reason, to offer you her ass tonight.
So, in the end, perhaps that it's not the points system the real problem, but the tasks used to earn the points. For the seduction path, "clean your room, help with the chores", versus, "give her flowers, take her to a fancy restaurant, work your ass out to offer her the dress she dream of". And for the corruption path, "kiss her, grope her, spy on her", versus, "Offer her a book from Sade, let a BDSM DVD in the reader, offer her good looking lingerie that are also a bit depraved".
In both case, the second feel a more natural reason to change her mind, than the first one. I mean, grope your girl as much as you want, she will never offer you her ass just because of this ; or give me her number, I'll marry her...

But this is all the more sandboxy games using points systems. Then you have to look at their use in a VN. Dating my Daughter makes the biggest mistakes in this.

Honestly I always seen the point system totally useless in this game. In the few first update it made sense. Either you had enough points and you past the day, or you had a game over. But once he decided to get ride of the game over, the points became useless. Like you implied, it became just a reward for the player... I'm not even sure that they were tested each time. They were earned, and by knowing that you earned a new point, you also knew that you did well, this even if you can't have done it wrong.
And it's perhaps also something missing in games with point system. There few to many way to earn points, but there's almost no game where you can lost them. Compliment her, you'll earn a point. Be an ass, you'll not earn a point, that's all.
Excuse-me, it seem that there's something wrong here... If I acted like a total jerk with my wife (yes, it happened, I'm only human after all), the consequences weren't that I'll have to wait one more week before we had anal sex. It was more that I was good to sleep in the sofa for a some times... And if I had done it too often, I'm sure that it would have ended with her saying me to enjoy my celibacy.

in the end, sex is why we are all playing these games. But when you treat the sexual content as a reward for the mundane task of playng the game, you slap us in the face.

The consequence of a lack of innovation ? When the scene restarted to grow because of engines like RPG maker and Ren'py, authors tried to mimic "regular" games, where the points offer you some reward, and where reward are directly related to your progress. I don't know, perhaps that they see it like a mark of maturity ; something like, "look, adult games can be like any other games". This while they should have tried to found their own way to make games.
And it's not impossible. @Belle have done it with

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, @HopesGaming with his

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. At another level, @veqvil do it good with his

You must be registered to see the links

. There's probably other ones that I haven't played or that just don't come to my mind right now. They are games that looks like "regular" ones, at least in terms of maturity, and still they are adult games. They take what's good in "regular" games, and rearrange it to make something more adult oriented. And all this is possible not because of the mechanism they use, but because of the story writing. They could have been grinding games, they would have been different, but still good because of the writing.

These games often make the cast out to all be shit people who aren't really redeemable in any way. It makes it hard to feel what I am coming to adult games to feel when that happens.

We need our George R. R. Martin. Not someone that kill every character, but someone that have them hard enough to reintroduce the "game over" and deal with the fury of a minority. You earned your sexual scene, not just because you had enough points, but also, if not more, because you avoided all the traps. Play it well, you'll have what you are looking for. Play it like a jerk, and deal with it man, it's you who made the decision to be an asshole at the wrong time.

 

[DarthSeduction]

The consequence of a lack of innovation ? When the scene restarted to grow because of engines like RPG maker and Ren'py, authors tried to mimic "regular" games, where the points offer you some reward, and where reward are directly related to your progress. I don't know, perhaps that they see it like a mark of maturity ; something like, "look, adult games can be like any other games". This while they should have tried to found their own way to make games.
And it's not impossible. @Belle have done it with

You must be registered to see the links

, @HopesGaming with his

You must be registered to see the links

. At another level, @veqvil do it good with his

You must be registered to see the links

.

On this, we 100% agree, in fact, that's what I was pointing to as exactly what to do.

Long Live the Princess actually manages to add a narrative for the MC as well, which is amazing, because most life sims don't do that.

Then there's The Deluca Family, as Hope said above me here, he made that as a hybrid. The game has it's sandbox moments where you're free to roam and talk to everyone and do missions for the family, and it has it's VN style linear story elements that allow you to get more out of it. This has allowed him to, once again, create narratives for each girl individually, as well as an overarching narrative for the MC.

I often forget that LLTP is a Life Sim because it's written seamlessly with a narrative. DeLuca Family does less to hide its life sim elements, but manages to still tell a larger story. The result is that the actions feel more rewarding. Another thing to look at, I feel, especiallly in Deluca, that Hopes does a great job of making even the mundane tasks that you do to earn points and progress, feel like something more. For example, the first task you do for Luna, it isn't something that Luna has you do to get in good with her, it is a job given to an employee, almost as a hazing thing, from my perspective. What makes it special is how you deal with it, when you, if you're like me, spend the extra money for the torn jeans as an olive branch, Luna feels special from it.

Compare that to Big Brother, where Alice just straight up asks you for money and giving her that money makes her think better of you, sure, she has a reason for it, but there's no element of, "Let me go above and beyond for her," to make it feel like something special. Compare it to the chores in Man of the House, where you completing them, or getting your sister to complete them for you, is treated as a means to get in good with mom. You're not doing anything above and beyond, you're her son, and you aren't in school or paying bills, it's laughable to think you wouldn't be asked to help out around the house.

Going back to Deluca, it manages to do something that far shittier games would do, but get away with it because of Hopes' writing. The whole wine thing with the sister-in-law. That's the kind of mundane task that normally gets things going, and usually, depending on the character, it will be met with a motherly or big sister type affectionate thank you that feels way over the top, or, a bitchy, "you think this is good enough?" type response, prodding you to go further and buy something better. In this one, she's nothing but joking and polite, but you do sense that she's unimpressed. However, she finds your eagerness to please endearing. When you come back with the second bottle it's much better, no top of the line variety, but something that is at least good, and again she's amused by your diligence. It's encouraging in it's own way and gives us a realistic reason why she's encouraging it. Combine that with what feels like trouble in the marriage and a good heart and I get her in a way I wouldn't say I have gotten many of the similar, more experienced characters in this type of game.

Sex isn't a reward, but you don't overpass the limit if you don't earn it in a way or another. It can be because you've been gentle enough (seduction path), like it can be because you managed to change her point of view (corruption path). But it's never because when she awaken this day, she suddenly decided, without reason, to offer you her ass tonight.
So, in the end, perhaps that it's not the points system the real problem, but the tasks used to earn the points. For the seduction path, "clean your room, help with the chores", versus, "give her flowers, take her to a fancy restaurant, work your ass out to offer her the dress she dream of". And for the corruption path, "kiss her, grope her, spy on her", versus, "Offer her a book from Sade, let a BDSM DVD in the reader, offer her good looking lingerie that are also a bit depraved".

I like some of the changes to tasks that you submit here, and in fact, one of them, the restaurant date, is exactly the kind of thing I've used as a suggestion for changes that should be made to Man of the House. Instead of the weird molestation/hypnotized by the cock experience that was how Faerin went with it, to where you gain favor by doing chores and buying her wine to lower her inhibition, and learn that she's desperate to jump on the next cock she sees. Though that might be better for the thread about porn logic going too far.

That said, I think the perspective is very one sided. A girl who has tried and knows she enjoys butt stuff isn't holding it back in the heat of the moment. It's the girl who's never tried it, maybe she's scared it will hurt, maybe she thinks it's a sin, maybe she just isn't interested in it, or, the girl who has tried it and didn't like it, who is going to put up a wall and only let that shit go if you earn it. Maybe its my youth in this situation. I think it's safe to say that these days girls are much more sexually adventurous than they were before the internet. But even then, I don't see it as a "specific task based reward" unless you have some sort of bet or something, which is plausible, it's far more likely to come from repeated requests being answered on a special occasion, an anniversary, birthday, or holiday, perhaps. Or maybe, it will happen as an apology from her end. Maybe she fucked up in some way, skipped out on a date, lost a bunch of money somehow, freaked out over nothing and caused a rift, something like that, and so she offers you something you really want, or that someone else tells her you might as a way of making amends.

See, one of the first mistakes almost every developer makes is not fleshing out the female characters' motivations. If you never come to understand their reasons for things, it tends to end up feeling really one sided, and looks a lot more like what you're describing, to where you're constantly having to do bigger and better things to earn something. When you don't take into account her motivations you are forced to do that because otherwise nothing feels earned. But when you explore her motivations, it's a lot easier to have things feel earned without basing them around mundane tasks.

We need our George R. R. Martin. Not someone that kill every character, but someone that have them hard enough to reintroduce the "game over" and deal with the fury of a minority. You earned your sexual scene, not just because you had enough points, but also, if not more, because you avoided all the traps. Play it well, you'll have what you are looking for. Play it like a jerk, and deal with it man, it's you who made the decision to be an asshole at the wrong time.

See, I'm not a fan of game overs. That's because they don't accomplish what you want to by including them. A game over is simply an empty choice. In attempting to come up with a solution for this I have branches that continue from a fail state with one character, but don't block you from pursuits with others. I also have a few, early game, opportunities that let you recover from decisions that might have blocked you from a desired path, because let's be real, one bad decision doesn't end all your chances every time, unless that decision is something really bad, like all the somnophillic acts perpetuated by characters in most life sims.

Lots of games pad their choice counts in a number of ways, they'll have completely empty button presses, like "Kiss her" -> "Use Tonge", but no other option there. Or they'll give you the option, "Peek, Don't Peek" but then peeking is just a fail state, causing you to go back and redo the option so that you don't. There's no weight to it. I outlined in the trope I wrote up, called Nocturnal Submissions, that has to do with all the aforementioned somnophillia that you can do whatever you want to the women in those games while they're asleep, cum on them, rape any of their holes, cum in them, leave them naked when they fell asleep, etc, and never have any consequences, because even if you do get caught, it will just be a game over and you try again without waking them up.

In Seraphim Academy there are choices that, if you haven't taken them, will not reveal information, and you can't do things without information, so you won't be able to advance past a certain stage, or on a certain route, if you don't push for that information state. In The Things We Do For Love, if you don't do certain actions with a certain character, they might be blocked from a certain action later. In the first release if you are bold, as Alexis, twice in regards to how she teases Alex, you won't get her masturbation scene at the end of the release. This is good for people who are avoiding the incest, but bad for people who maybe just decided not to do one for some reason, like, for instance, because their mom was in the room.

I have a game planned as one of my next projects wherein the MC is in the middle of an NTR love Triangle, his girlfriend, a cute "Goth/punk" geek, and his litttle sister. His sister has only just turned 18 and moved out of their father's house, which because of their family background meant she was sheltered and not allowed a lot of freedom, and her first real action on turning 18 is, trying to seduce the brother she loves. If you allow her to seduce you, things escalate and you come to a crossroads where you lose one of them. Consequences, without empty game over states.

 

[anne O'nymous]

For example, the first task you do for Luna, it isn't something that Luna has you do to get in good with her, [...]
Compare that to Big Brother, where Alice just straight up asks you for money and giving her that money makes her think better of you, [...]

All is in the writing yes. While you just buy (and literally in this particular case) the reaction of Alice, you earn Luna's one. Not only you know that she liked it, but you also know why ; and it's what really make the difference. This, plus the fact that the implied change is subtle.
She don't go full, "you did it ? Great, so it's sexy time now, right ?". It's more that your earned her trust and her affection. She'll accept to interact more with you, but that's all. And that's the same for each character and each "level". You just earn the right to have more interactions, more intimacy... This will lead to sex at one point, but you're clearly far from this day. To keep Luna, at one point she'll not try to kill you if you catch her in her underwear. But this day you'll still be far from the one where she'll react in the same way if you catch her topless.
And you know all this just by what she said when you give her the jean...

You're not doing anything above and beyond, you're her son, and you aren't in school or paying bills, it's laughable to think you wouldn't be asked to help out around the house.

It could have, perhaps, worked, if at start the MC was acting like a jerk. In this case, it's not the fact to do the chores that would trigger the answer from the mother, but the change in the way to act. Yet, it need more words than the average, "oh, thanks I guess. Do you want some sexy time for this ?"

I like some of the changes to tasks that you submit here, and in fact, one of them, the restaurant date, is exactly the kind of thing I've used as a suggestion for changes that should be made to Man of the House.

What amaze me is that it's in fact something natural. All dev's can't be 20yo virgins, the majority of them have someone in their life, or had someone in their life at one point. Why don't they simply make us do what they did to attract this "someone" ?
That they have more problem with the corruption way, I can understand it. It fall more on the fiction side and they can't directly use their own life as inspiration. But for the seduction side, I really don't understand it.

That said, I think the perspective is very one sided. A girl who has tried and knows she enjoys butt stuff isn't holding it back in the heat of the moment. It's the girl who's never tried it, maybe she's scared it will hurt, maybe she thinks it's a sin, maybe she just isn't interested in it, or, the girl who has tried it and didn't like it, who is going to put up a wall and only let that shit go if you earn it.

You forgot one thing here. There's in fact three categories, not just two. The majority (wild guess) have tried it, but with someone who didn't know how to do it. They are stuck on this bad experience and don't want to repeat it.

Maybe its my youth in this situation. I think it's safe to say that these days girls are much more sexually adventurous than they were before the internet.

It's not your youth, it's a fact. The difference come both from internet and numerical technologies. Between the one who talk about it, the one who photography it, and the one who film it, girls now know that they aren't the only one. And this make a big change because if the average porn game have it right on one thing, it's in their "you don't think that I'm perverted, right ?"
Despite the evolution of the society, women are still depicted as innocents. Going to their man and start asking for something kinky, many of them want to do it, but they fear the reaction. They fear that he'll think that they are depraved and stop to love them because of this. But, like I said, now you just need one hour on internet to know that you are far to be the only one to want this, that it's in fact something natural.
And to this, add the fact that you also discover new things, and discover themfrom person who'll say that they love it... Anal sex, everyone know about this. But just 20 years ago, few know that spanking can be a sexual activity. You now have it in one out of two porn movie, whatever amateur or pro. I don't remember having seen it a single time in the porn movies I've seen in the pre-internet age.
It was already a thing, internet invented nothing, it's just that few knew it at this time. While now you browse the net, read about it or show it. You think about it one day or two, talk to your partner about it and you try it. And, obviously, the younger you are, the more you'll be ready to experiment. So, what was true before is momentarily false, it's younger girls that are the more experienced. Not necessarily in term of quality, but in term of number of possibilities.

See, one of the first mistakes almost every developer makes is not fleshing out the female characters' motivations.

Which fallback to what we both say from the start : Writing is the master key.
When you start a game, you don't need to know what will be the different levels. No, you need to know what's the motivation of the girl. Once you have it, everything else will (relatively speaking) come by itself.
If you know that the girl was raped by a parent in her youth, then you know everything. She'll have trust issue and she'll be afraid of sex. She'll also probably fear violence, while being totally submissive if you force her ; but do this and you'll loose her. MC will have to make her discover that there isn't only one way to have sex. He'll need to make her forget all what she know about it, then learn new things. And if he want to corrupt her, he will first have to earn her trust. He can't force her until they understand that he's not her rapist but someone who really love her and really do this not only for his pleasure, but also for her own one.
So, the pace is already defined, the scenes are already here. You'll sill have to write the game, but you know what you have to write, when and why.

If you never come to understand their reasons for things, it tends to end up feeling really one sided, and looks a lot more like what you're describing, to where you're constantly having to do bigger and better things to earn something. When you don't take into account her motivations you are forced to do that because otherwise nothing feels earned. But when you explore her motivations, it's a lot easier to have things feel earned without basing them around mundane tasks.

Not only it's easier to do it as player, but it's also easier to feel it (still as player) and to write it. In fact, even the task themselves can be easier and smaller.
Keep the abused girl I took as example above. Before you start going full kinky with her, you'll have to earn her trust. It's both something big and something small. Just be faithful, don't lie, be understanding. Here, the points aren't earn by some task, but mostly by what you say. No need to repetitively wash the dishes, just be true when you pick the answer you'll give.

See, I'm not a fan of game overs. That's because they don't accomplish what you want to by including them. A game over is simply an empty choice.

Alright, next task, change your point of view on "game over"
More seriously, here again it's a question of writing. A "game over" is just the end of the game. "Congratulation, you did it" is nothing more than a "game over" ; just that it's the one we all pursue.
I don't remember the name of the game, but there's one with many "game over" that you like. It's just that these "game over" happen at the end of the game and are named "bad end". It's an incest game where you go to your daddy and, depending of your action, will end as an happy fucking family, loose your mother (because she'll go away or go live with your best friend), and so on. What are the ends where the mother goes away, what are the ends where you become the university public sperm bank, except "game over" that hide behind the name of "bad end" ?

A game over is not an empty choice, it's a premature end. Write it, script it, and it's an end like any other one.
You didn't wanted to earn the trust of the abused girl I talked about above ? Instead, you goes full forcing, using her trauma, and the submissiveness resulting from it, at your advantage. She'll start to pass more time with a (girl) friend of her. She'll start to be more distant. And one day, you'll come back from work and discover that she disappeared, taking most of her belonging with her.
The friend did what you didn't. She helped her understand that she was abused, helped her understand that no, it's not how love is expressed. And when she was ready, she just go live her life far away from you. "Game over"... Too bad, there's still one year of update that you'll miss. But well, if you took the time to think about your choice, you would have played it right and weren't facing this premature bad end.
Not only you have a scripted scene depicting the moment where you discover that she left, but you also had the change in her behavior. It was both an introduction for the future "game over" scene, and a warning to give you the possibility to revert your decision, to avoid this premature ending

Lots of games pad their choice counts in a number of ways, they'll have completely empty button presses, like "Kiss her" -> "Use Tonge", but no other option there.

This is a particular thing. Mostly these button exist either because the author don't know how to delay the game, while fearing that the player will not understand what is happening, or because the author think that it's more involving if the player effectively start this action.
It they give points, then the author don't understand what points are ; unless the action itself only happen if you already have enough points. In this case it's part of the seduction game. You had enough points to kiss her at this moment, and she'll like it.

If you allow her to seduce you, things escalate and you come to a crossroads where you lose one of them. Consequences, without empty game over states.

But that's not what "game over" are. You just make a choice which imply that you'll loose one of them. A "game over" not just a consequence for a bad choice, but the sanction for too many bad choice.
In most of the game, as long as you have the 10 needed points, you can fuck her ass as long as you want insult her anytime you'll talk to her. She'll not care, you have the 10 points, you'll have her ass. How can you feel involved, how can you imerge in such game ?
With a "game over", you've too think before you make a choice. Not because it will immediately send you to the wall, but because it can lead you, step by step, to a dead end. There's a reason why I took Georges R. R. Martin as reference. Like you've more feeling for his characters, because you know that they can die at any time, you've more feeling for the girl, if you know that you need to really think your decision.
In the same time, you feel more rewarded. It's not because you have the right number of points that you see the scene, but because you didn't fucked it up. Your choice matter, and this time it's true. Not because you can be rewarded, but because you can also be sanctioned. Why behave, if you can achieve the same result by being a jerk ?

 

[DarthSeduction]

I don't remember the name of the game, but there's one with many "game over" that you like. It's just that these "game over" happen at the end of the game and are named "bad end". It's an incest game where you go to your daddy and, depending of your action, will end as an happy fucking family, loose your mother (because she'll go away or go live with your best friend), and so on. What are the ends where the mother goes away, what are the ends where you become the university public sperm bank, except "game over" that hide behind the name of "bad end" ?

There are a number of bad ends to I Love Daddy, but all of them are at the logical end of a storyline, as far as I remember, except for the ones where your mother leaves for any reason, because those always seem to feel like they were cut short. This is especially true once you learn that Cath is the key that brings your family back under the grandmother's microscope. They feared you were consolidating power. So the end where Cath and your mother run away together feels out of place, because they never go on to deal with the family issues. I don't even remember the one where your mom leaves if you didn't involve cath, it was that lackluster. Both of those ends feel weak.

Meanwhile, every other bad end is actually at the logical end of the game. The cum one which you mentioned, actually has 2 or 3 end states iirc. One of them in which either you go home or your father comes to regularly cum for you. One of them in which you give in to total depravity and become a cumslut, and one in which you are more dominant and sort of become the femdom mistress of the dorms. But, this all happens along the end routes of the game, you made it through all the other content, got some different scenes, but they weren't necessarily bad scenes.

The worst ending, in terms of my feeling sad at the end, would have to be the one where they awaken some sort of lust monster inside of the titular daddy. Where he just fucks them 24/7, and she's forced to allow him to corrupt her roommate so that she can get some sleep and do some schoolwork when he's there. But again, it's a logical end point, and still has a lot of content, though it's a failure in terms of the MC's goals, it's still an end to a story.

The other two bad ends that I can think of right now are the lonely queen in the sky, where you learn of your powers under your grandma's tutelage and essentially become queen of the world, but at the cost of everything you have ever loved, as well as any chance at true love, as you can no longer control your power, and anyone you speak with is bound to fall prey. And the one where your conscience/source of your power decides you're unworthy and you end in a coma. Again, these are failures, consequences, but at the end of the game. There's no question that you fucked up, but there's also no missed content.

"Game over"... Too bad, there's still one year of update that you'll miss. But well, if you took the time to think about your choice, you would have played it right and weren't facing this premature bad end.

This however, is not the end of the game. It's a premature end that shows that the dev didn't think this line through. An example of this kind of ending exists in the original version of Vis Major. By being too willing to get fucked Cara ends up kidnapped and in a dungeon and raped before finally being put out of her misery. You see the whole path of this consequence, but you don't really have to face it, because you're just gonna go back to the choice that caused it and play the game with the other option.

Imagine, if instead the game had forced you to continue from there, now your goal, because you'd fucked up, is to escape, and inso doing, still hopefully manage to make it to the top of this organization and get rid of them so you can have your life back. It's a setback, one that makes the game a lot harder, a lot darker, maybe the full consequence will end up being that no matter what you do in the end, you'll never be able to go back, because the darkness of the journey will have changed you too much. But you should still have to see it through to the end.

Using your example of the abused girl. Maybe have the consequence be that you start to become more controlling over her. Maybe you visit this friend and scare them away. Maybe you make the girl stay at home with you. Maybe you kill the friend. Maybe you arrange a scenario where the abused girl gets assaulted and you show up as the hero. The consequences being a darker story wherein your character becomes more and more vile as he fights to control this girl. Really explore the morality of this person and make us feel the pain we are causing to the girl and the world around her.

I watched a movie yesterday where a father's PTSD and other issues force him to flee civilization. He can stay in the city, he doesn't trust people, he gets anxious around helicopters, and loud noises. The story explored how him dealing with this in this way, and dragging his daughter along for the ride, living in the woods, running from CPS, etc, and how this affected the daughter. He was a good father, in every way one could hope, but, he couldn't provide a stable home for her, and she was tired of running. In the end, they go their separate ways. It's a really sad story. And it's exactly what should be happening in your scenario. Our guy trying to be a good boyfriend, but constantly putting his wants and needs above her mental health and stability, how that affects them both and leads to whatever dark conclusion it leads to. Maybe she runs away finally, maybe she falls into the victim conditioning and the game ends with him being an abusive husband, maybe she kills him. But bring it all the way to the end state. Make us play it all the way though.

 

[anne O'nymous]

There are a number of bad ends to I Love Daddy, but all of them are at the logical end of a storyline,

No, they are in the last update, this is different.

So the end where Cath and your mother run away together feels out of place, because they never go on to deal with the family issues.

And why should they absolutely goes on a deal with the family issues ?
You've two main path for the ending. Either the daughter love her mother and accept to share daddy, or she don't love her mother and try to keep daddy for herself. In the first path, the mother will try to solve the family issues. Not for her, but because she don't want that her own daughter have to live with this Damocles sword above her head.
But in the second path, why should she care ? She past the ten last years hopping that one day her daughter will turn her husband, the love of her life, back into his old self. Then, it didn't happened. Worse, her daughter stole the heart of her husband and don't care about her... The mother lost everything, her hope, her husband and her daughter. That's why she run away and why she don't need to solve the family issues. In fact it can even be seen as a revenge ; she run away and so will continue to avoid the consequences, while they are now full facing them since the family is, more or less, reunite again. As alternative, you have her falling for Cate. She lost everything, but in exchange found another love. She don't care of anything else, the traitors (the daughter and her husband) can die, it doesn't matter for her.
There's no weakness in this second path. In fact it's more well wrote than the ones where she became a whore. Whatever it's her being a real bitch and using sex to have whatever she want, or the one where she became the university sperm bucket, they are both weak. Those ending happen because she was too obsessed by the idea to have sex with her daddy and with only him. How the hell she goes for this exclusive obsession to having sex with every single guy she cross is a mystery.

It looks like you were tricked by the moment where the endings were introduced in the game. The ones that came two/three updates before the last update, you see them as weak. And the real weak ones, you see them as natural because they came with the last update.
Would the author have put few useless scenes to let him release all the endings at the same time, or even just froze these paths, that you would have probably see them differently.

But, this all happens along the end routes of the game, you made it through all the other content, got some different scenes, but they weren't necessarily bad scenes.

Like I said, no. The happens in the last release, but it doesn't mean that the other one didn't happened at the end route of the game. The game doesn't end with its last update. It's the writing of the game that end at this moment, and they are two different things.
Let say that tomorrow I release my first game, a basic seduction/corruption sandbox game. Because it's my first game, I'm not confident enough, and I don't know the engine enough (well image that I don't know it enough). So, I decide to focus on the seduction path. And because I focus on it, as well as because it took me time to understand how to do what I want for the corruption path, it will end before the last release.
Will this make this ending weak ? Just because I finished to write it before I finished to write the other path ? There's no reason for this... absolutely no reason for this.

This however, is not the end of the game. It's a premature end that shows that the dev didn't think this line through. An example of this kind of ending exists in the original version of Vis Major. By being too willing to get fucked Cara ends up kidnapped and in a dungeon and raped before finally being put out of her misery.

Are you sure about this ? I mean in a global perspective, not especially for this game.
You are a looser who's want to fuck the girl next door. One day, you find a way to blackmail her, and you do so. Then, you face two possibilities. Either you blackmailed her because you are awkward as fuck and don't saw another way to have sex with the girl you're in love to, or you blackmailed her because you are an abusive freak who jumped on the occasion. In the first path, you force her to sex, but you act gently, you think about her pleasure and, with the help of Stockholm syndrome, she fall in love with you. In the second path, she collect evidences to make you face the consequences of your actions, and you end in jail.
Obviously, the second path will end way before the first one. But is it really a poor writing ? You see the story. First panel the cops come to his house. Second panel they arrest him. Third he's in jail. Fourth he face a judge. And it continue like this with few panels until you see him, miserably sat in jail, or even raped why not. This with a good writing explaining the panels.
There's no reason to see this ending as weak just because the game will still have ten release for the gentle path.

What would have been, and is, a poor writing, the mark of a writer who "didn't think this line through", is when the author decide to not care about the consequences.
You act like a jerk, and it change absolutely nothing in your relation with the girl. Every morning you greet her with a, "shut the fuck up, stupid bitch", but like you do all the chores during the rest of the day, it doesn't matter, you still have enough points. It will yet be sexy time this night.
How can this be a better writing than making the said girl being more and more angry, more and more reluctant to have sex, until the day she kick you out of the house ? Just because writing this make it that the player will reach the end of the game while there's still many updates for the other paths ?
I'm pretty sure that it's the opposite. The game tell you many stories, and some are shorter than the other. That's all, and it doesn't mean that the shorter stories are weaker that the longest one.

It's parallel stories, but not necessarily parallel writing, nor stories that should absolutely have the same length.
Transposed to a book, the pages aren't vertically split with the gentle path at the top of the page, and the abusive one at the bottom of it. It's more a "choose your own adventure" book (even for interactive visual novels), where each page (I simply) is dedicated to one path. At the end of this page, you don't continue with the following one, you jump somewhere else in the book. And when you read the last physical page of the book, you aren't reading the end of the story.
Because they are released by successive updates, games feel like the first representation, while they in fact are like the second one. And yes, here you can feel a premature ending as a problem or a weakness. You look at the top of the page, where the story you were reading is, and see only blank. This will the bottom part of the page is still filled for many pages.
But it's just a feeling, not a reality , this in the perspective of a good written game, obviously.

Imagine, if instead the game had forced you to continue from there, now your goal, because you'd fucked up, is to escape, [...]

In the "you end in jail" ending of the blackmail path, you can let the player try to find a way to escape. You can invent an universe where jails aren't unisex, and the MC seduce some girl prisoners, some girls guardians, and achieve to escape. This just to make this path continue until the last release.
But you understand that it's now a totally different story, right ? The story told by this game is "you're a MC and you want to fuck the girl next door", not "fuck your way out of jail". It can be a good story for a game (it is a good story for a game), but it's not this game's story.
The author don't continue the game here, he started a new one inside the previous one.

Using your example of the abused girl. Maybe have the consequence be that you start to become more controlling over her. Maybe you visit this friend and scare them away. Maybe you make the girl stay at home with you. Maybe you kill the friend. Maybe you arrange a scenario where the abused girl gets assaulted and you show up as the hero.

Like me, you want coherent stories, so...
Like the vast majority of abusers, MC's just a fucking coward that finally found someone weaker than him ; hey, he used and abused of her trauma instead of just trying to win her heart like he could have.
If you try to control her more when you feel that she's ready to run away, she'll run away faster ; unless you unchain her. If you visit her friend, the said friend will send the cops over you ; do you really think that you can scare someone who already fight hard against you ? If you kill the friend, you'll awake something strong in the girl, don't think that it will end well for you. Don't think that she'll come back to her submissive self after you killed the only good thing that came in her life.
As for the hero's scenario... Sorry, but honestly it's the worse of all the options you gave. Even in a fiction it feel weak, this said it's the only one in accord with the MC personality. In all the options, you are trying to artificially continue the story. But with this one you even use a giant blinking neon sign to explain it to the player ; whatever he'll do, you'll make it that the path will end in the last release only, even if for this you need to sacrifice your pride.
But why ? Because you're too afraid of some players reaction ? Because you really want them to continue to love you ? To support you ? Because you feel that you aren't a good enough writer if you let the story naturally die ?
Except for the first one, it's the opposite that will happen. If your game is really well wrote, the players will use a previous save, or ask for one, and continue playing. They'll try to change their fate, now that they know that they fucked up. They'll do it simply because the game is well wrote and they want to know what happen if they don't mess it.

By letting the story naturally die, you proved that you master every part of it. It's not the story who lead you, forcing you to use all reanimation tools you can found to keep it alive. No, it's you who lead. You saw that it reached it's logical end, then you do what you can to let it die peacefully ; accompanying it with love until its last point.
It's a premature ending, in regard of the other path of the story, but it doesn't mean that it's a bad one, nor a weak one. You don't have to feel bad because you finished the game before the other players, you have the right to feel glad to have played a good story with a rational and logical ending.

I watched a movie yesterday where a father's PTSD and other issues force him to flee civilization. [...] It's a really sad story. And it's exactly what should be happening in your scenario.

But once again it's a totally different story that you added to artificially continue this path of the game. You'll prove that you are a good writer, that you can come to a way to fill the blank if needed... But, here again, for what reason ?
Let the player have it's part in the story. If they want to imagine that the MC run after the girl and apology, camp in front of her door for days, offering her a beautiful and expensive gift each day until she understand that he really love her, that he really care for her, let them have this possibility.
Like I said in my previous comment, every ending is a "game over". Whatever if it's the natural end in the last update, a natural but premature one, or one that came because of bad choice, they are all "game over". And once the game is over, the story is not yours anymore. It become the player's one, it's up to him to continue the story in his head. Don't force him to have your version of what happen next, let him live it the way he want it, it's his time now.

There's a reason why authors talk about the stories they wrote as their children ; it's the same process. They write the story like they raise a child, but in both case come the time where you have to let them go, to let them live their life on their own. Some child will stay near to you, some other will decide to travel the world and you'll not see them as often as you want. It doesn't man that you've failed with one or the other, it doesn't mean that one love you more than the other. It's just the way life goes.
In the particular case of game's writing, it's like raising twins. Don't expect them to have the exact same life. You'll raise them in parallel, but it can happen that one will goes on his own way, while the other one still feel the need to stay for some times. It's just natural and doesn't mean that you failed somewhere. It's not because one of the twin found the love of his life and so go live with her, while the other continue to live in your house, that you messed it.
The same apply for your stories. Some will end faster than the other, but it doesn't mean that you didn't wrote them well ; it's the way they goes, and it doesn't matter if a story end before another.

 

[DarthSeduction]

But why ? Because you're too afraid of some players reaction ? Because you really want them to continue to love you ? To support you ? Because you feel that you aren't a good enough writer if you let the story naturally die ?
Except for the first one, it's the opposite that will happen. If your game is really well wrote, the players will use a previous save, or ask for one, and continue playing. They'll try to change their fate, now that they know that they fucked up. They'll do it simply because the game is well wrote and they want to know what happen if they don't mess it.

By letting the story naturally die, you proved that you master every part of it. It's not the story who lead you, forcing you to use all reanimation tools you can found to keep it alive. No, it's you who lead. You saw that it reached it's logical end, then you do what you can to let it die peacefully ; accompanying it with love until its last point.
It's a premature ending, in regard of the other path of the story, but it doesn't mean that it's a bad one, nor a weak one. You don't have to feel bad because you finished the game before the other players, you have the right to feel glad to have played a good story with a rational and logical ending.

I deleted a much larger post and came back to just this, as it's where we are at an impasse. A story isn't about the series of events it chronicles. A story is about how its series of events shape our characters. In the first act we establish characters and establish a driving force. In the second act we see that the way that they've gone about things up till now isn't enough, they need something else, and in the third act we see the payoff in their character's growth, they've changed, become their true self.

Take The Avengers. The first act introduces us to our 6 heroes all on their own path as well as introducing the conflict that brings them together in Loki and the Tessract. Our first act ends with the team, after fighting, capturing Loki and bringing him in. Our second act is all about showing us the team isn't working together. They're all at odds with no cohesion. The second act ends in failure, the team fights eachother and loses the only person who really had faith in them, Coulson.

This is where all your game over scenarios are. The end of the second act. The MC has fucked up and has to finally face some consequences, and nothing, no continuation of the arc, no decision about what they should do, just, end.

The third act of the Avengers has the heroes come to terms with how selfish they'd been, it has them rally around the cause of defeating Loki and avenging Coulson. They have the big fight in New York working together for the good of the planet. Our once disparate heroes now work together, the camera pans around them as it shows that they've all got one another's back. Our characters have learned from the mistakes they made in acts 1 and 2 and come out stronger for it.

Now, in your scenario, our character isn't a hero. He's shown himself to be a villain. His job at the proposed end points you've given is to decide how to move forward. Does he accept that he's become the villain, embracing it? Or does he recoil, try to make amends? Embracing his inner villain is how the scenarios I provided, in which he harms either the girl or her friend in some way to ensure his control. However there could be a third act in which he pushes hard to make amends.

What you're doing with your endings is robbing us of this character development, of this arc.