3D-Daz Help me improving my artwork

[JustXThings]

Hi there,

(this post contains spoilers of my game, but nobody cares about the story anyway =D)

I have been rendering for around a year and although I have seen improvement in my skills, yet I keep missing that "wow" factor I see in some other works. My work just is not there. Sometimes I kind of stumble upon it and a render looks great, but the majority of time even if looking for it for a fricking long time, I just don't find it.

So I was wondering if I could get some feedback and help in how to improve my artwork. For instance, this last one.




I look at it and I kind of like it. Years ahead of what I used to do. Still, no wow factor. It's so plain. I know that when I add text and "motion" it will improve and be good enough to carry the story. But I see some other works which have such "vibrant" stills, For instance "Lisa".

Another one. An interior. This one is not particularly important. The couple in the front should be high-lighted and grab attention first, the red-headed on the back second.



Still, the puppets look more "highlighted" than anything else on the scene. The key light is focusing the short woman on the front and the fill is coming from the right side of the image, directly into the woman chest (see highlight). Apart from the ceiling lights and whatever iray comes through the entrance windows. Like this triggers me so much =D Fricking shiny puppets have more depth than the other characters. I'd rather prefer not making the puppets more plain.

Finally, this scene. It took me forever to figure out how to make dark scenes less grainy and some surfaces less shiny (for some reason the bookshelves were initially shinier than the sun). So, that's a start. I like the composition, but again, the "wow" factor is missing.



I wonder what kind of lighting should I be thinking about to produce more "anguish" or what should be high-lighted, etc.

Some extra points.

- I am not particularly fond of post production because I do a ton of renders on each scene. Still I don't mind GIMP'ing some stills if I feel that will carry the scene better.

- I cannot let the render run forever. Usually 15 minutes is a hard max for anything I produce and no 4k.

Come on. jizz me some ideas. Thanks in advance !

 

[MatchstickMan]

My two cents... The first image is nice, but the texture on that railing they are standing in front of communicates a lot age and wear, while the characters by comparison appear a little too smooth. The more texture on the surface, the more there is for light to interact with. I would also say that you can get a lot of mileage towards a visually interesting still just by playing with the position of the camera a little. You mention "Lisa" which does this beautifully. If you watch TV and Movies then it really pays to study what you like and try to implement it in your own work.

Working in 3D means you're able to change everything on screen. This can be both gift and curse. Every element in the scene should be working for you. In the second shot, the short woman is blending into the background. I think the pink and blue characters stand out more because they do stand out from their drab settings. You might try to add some color contrast to help her pop out from the surroundings or again, move the camera so she's framed by something in the background. If the characters in the background are also important, might they be framed on either side by the two in the foreground. There's lot's of fun ways to direct the eyes around the screen.

It's hard to tell exactly what's going on in that last image. It looks like someone committed suicide and someone else just discovered them. It's hard to get a feeling of anguish when you can't see the face of the person who's feeling it. I'm not sure what they're holding in their hands. I think there are better angles to view this scene from. As far as lighting goes, I'd be tempted to have only the characters hit with just enough light to provide clarity. They are the only thing that matters here. Try to find a way to put some kind of spotlight on them (actually or figuratively) to make them seem isolated and alone.

Having said that, after looking at the preview images from your game, some of them look really nice. You said your work now is years ahead of what it used to be... If you keep pushing yourself, then years from now it will look that much better than it does today. Keep at it.

 

[JustXThings]

...

Thanks for answering. Yeah, I know my "framing" could be better. I don't have good eye for that. That's something that I have learnt by heart after thousands of crappy photos.

So, I move around the first image a bit.



I kind of like this one more since it expresses "more" (you see both faces). Plus since the blue characters are already shown here, I can frame the two characters better w/o bothering showing the blue characters again, which improves the previous image as well. It's nevertheless not the "wow" that I am looking for. But I think the light / shadow combination on the characters looks better.

I actually left the 3-point light system from the previous image in this one and highlighted the sides of the faces I wanted with a light ray with very little exponent (it's going through both faces). Otherwise faces were too dark. If I move to 3-point light system from this perspective, which is what I usually do. Then I don't get the one side bright (front), other dark (back).

One thing I need to learn is to add volume to lights. Since the bus front lights feel super bland.

In any case, I think the issue that I have is that I miss contrast. I am pretty sure this particular scene https://f95zone.to/threads/lisa-v2-70b-palegrass.86725/#lg=post-6067735&slide=13 has much more light than what I have in my scene, but it looks so much darker, it has so much more "depth".

In fact something like that is what I am looking for in the 3rd picture. Only the piles of books (not the bookshelves), the girl and the silhouette of the old man matter. You are right that w/o context is difficult to imagine how to light the scene or what I am "looking for". But in any case the scene looks too "neat" for my taste. I'd like something like the movie Se7en. I am experimenting with scatter lights coming from the left. It looks better but finding the right parameters is a pain.

Thanks for the second one. I actually didn't even notice the color of the dress was the same than the furniture. I never think about that kind of stuff. Most of the time I just pick the assets as they are. And those times I happen to change the textures I end up making huge mess ups. The perspective though kind of must stay as it is. It's seen from a character perspective which is exactly at that location.

Hey thanks again. I kind of noticed after your answer and trying to answer it myself that I shouldn't so much ask for "help me with my artwork", but provide an example of something I find really good and ask "How the heck are they doing this ?".

 

[Alboe Interactive]

Hi there,

(this post contains spoilers of my game, but nobody cares about the story anyway =D)

I have been rendering for around a year and although I have seen improvement in my skills, yet I keep missing that "wow" factor I see in some other works. My work just is not there. Sometimes I kind of stumble upon it and a render looks great, but the majority of time even if looking for it for a fricking long time, I just don't find it.

So I was wondering if I could get some feedback and help in how to improve my artwork. For instance, this last one.


View attachment 2326095

I look at it and I kind of like it. Years ahead of what I used to do. Still, no wow factor. It's so plain. I know that when I add text and "motion" it will improve and be good enough to carry the story. But I see some other works which have such "vibrant" stills, For instance "Lisa".

Another one. An interior. This one is not particularly important. The couple in the front should be high-lighted and grab attention first, the red-headed on the back second.

View attachment 2326227

Still, the puppets look more "highlighted" than anything else on the scene. The key light is focusing the short woman on the front and the fill is coming from the right side of the image, directly into the woman chest (see highlight). Apart from the ceiling lights and whatever iray comes through the entrance windows. Like this triggers me so much =D Fricking shiny puppets have more depth than the other characters. I'd rather prefer not making the puppets more plain.

Finally, this scene. It took me forever to figure out how to make dark scenes less grainy and some surfaces less shiny (for some reason the bookshelves were initially shinier than the sun). So, that's a start. I like the composition, but again, the "wow" factor is missing.

View attachment 2326309

I wonder what kind of lighting should I be thinking about to produce more "anguish" or what should be high-lighted, etc.

Some extra points.

- I am not particularly fond of post production because I do a ton of renders on each scene. Still I don't mind GIMP'ing some stills if I feel that will carry the scene better.

- I cannot let the render run forever. Usually 15 minutes is a hard max for anything I produce and no 4k.

Come on. jizz me some ideas. Thanks in advance !

I know you already went in a different direction for your first image, but I wanted to add something. Different colors for lighting are important for setting the time of day and mood. To me, the two women by the railing look out of place/time because they are purely lit with warm colors. Ironically, while the warm-colored lighting from the street lamps is probably more realistic, it doesn't "sell" nighttime correctly. Cool colors do. Here is an example from some older renders of mine (more angles of this scene here):

Focus on the cooler light streaming in from the skylight. Even while inside a building, doesn't it feel like nighttime? In your render, the audience can already see the streetlights are providing warm light from the background. So a cool colored light coming from above and behind the camera should not only help sell the time but the contrasting colors can also assist in selling the emotions and scene as a whole.

For your second image, depth of field and rim lighting would do wonders to refocus the viewer on the important background characters. In addition, the puppets are distracting because they are shiny. For complex scenes like this, I would use normal characters, add them to groups, and use the Spot Render tool (make sure to go to Tool Settings and change it to New Window). For example, save the scene with everyone loaded, delete the characters that won't be visible, spot render only one of these groups at a time (like the 2 people in the left corner), reload the scene, and repeat until finished. Combine the renders in post (ctrl+shift+v to paste in place in PS, then Merge Visible Layers).

If you really want to shortcut this process, then only make a couple of sets of background characters, put them in a group, put their Render SubD level down to 1 (or 0 if fairly far away or out of focus), and then instance that whole group. You'll have a bunch of clones in the scene, but that is still less distracting than brightly colored puppets. Combine with something like

You must be registered to see the links

to really cut down on memory usage. That way you can render the background characters, and scene as a whole, and then spot render in the important foreground characters.

I think your third image is fine. The only thing I could say is if you think there needs to be more angst, then an additional render showing it is needed. Like the little girl reaching up, and/or a shot that shows her expression. Sometimes you can't tell the whole story in a single image. And don't worry about making the scene dark enough. For Daz (like Hollywood), common practice is to make scenes at average level lighting and then use postwork to drop the exposure down on the renders. This should also help prevent longer render times and excessive noise.

 

[JustXThings]

I know you already went in a different direction for your first image, but I wanted to add something. Different colors for lighting are important for setting the time of day and mood. To me, the two women by the railing look out of place/time because they are purely lit with warm colors. Ironically, while the warm-colored lighting from the street lamps is probably more realistic, it doesn't "sell" nighttime correctly. Cool colors do. Here is an example from some older renders of mine (more angles of this scene here):

Focus on the cooler light streaming in from the skylight. Even while inside a building, doesn't it feel like nighttime? In your render, the audience can already see the streetlights are providing warm light from the background. So a cool colored light coming from above and behind the camera should not only help sell the time but the contrasting colors can also assist in selling the emotions and scene as a whole.

For your second image, depth of field and rim lighting would do wonders to refocus the viewer on the important background characters. In addition, the puppets are distracting because they are shiny. For complex scenes like this, I would use normal characters, add them to groups, and use the Spot Render tool (make sure to go to Tool Settings and change it to New Window). For example, save the scene with everyone loaded, delete the characters that won't be visible, spot render only one of these groups at a time (like the 2 people in the left corner), reload the scene, and repeat until finished. Combine the renders in post (ctrl+shift+v to paste in place in PS, then Merge Visible Layers).

If you really want to shortcut this process, then only make a couple of sets of background characters, put them in a group, put their Render SubD level down to 1 (or 0 if fairly far away or out of focus), and then instance that whole group. You'll have a bunch of clones in the scene, but that is still less distracting than brightly colored puppets. Combine with something like

You must be registered to see the links

to really cut down on memory usage. That way you can render the background characters, and scene as a whole, and then spot render in the important foreground characters.

I think your third image is fine. The only thing I could say is if you think there needs to be more angst, then an additional render showing it is needed. Like the little girl reaching up, and/or a shot that shows her expression. Sometimes you can't tell the whole story in a single image. And don't worry about making the scene dark enough. For Daz (like Hollywood), common practice is to make scenes at average level lighting and then use postwork to drop the exposure down on the renders. This should also help prevent longer render times and excessive noise.

Hey, thanks for answering =D

Just saw your recent release. Those "choose futa" + "pregnant mother" pics got me interested

I usually use greenish tones for night scenery.



(above greenish front light + back linear point light for the reflexes and differentiating the hair from the background)

(below warm "moonlight" front light + same back linear point light as above)



But most of the time I lean towards the second image because even if less realistic. I like the warmth tones better. Plus in the end, I am emulating a bit of a Theater play, so I try convincing myself than most of my scenes are being like this and realism is not that important since important characters have spot lights following them around



--

Regarding the third image. The third image is part of a series. The series works fine, I think, but I have obviously not explained that so how could anybody else know, right ? The hang image should be darker, the hanged man should be "formless". The little girl should be high-lighted, the books should be high-lighted. That is how I imagine it because the moment the little girl finds him, she doesn't really understand what it is going on. She only wanted a new book (that is what she holds). He is not bleeding, or has any bruises. Therefore, she doesn't interpret the scene as the man being hurt. She only needs to say something like "Mr. XYZ ?", once with this image, the second one with black scene and it can move to the next render of her outside several time later.

 

[Alboe Interactive]

Hey, thanks for answering =D

Just saw your recent release. Those "choose futa" + "pregnant mother" pics got me interested

No problem at all. And thanks.

I usually use greenish tones for night scenery.

View attachment 2330600

(above greenish front light + back linear point light for the reflexes and differentiating the hair from the background)

(below warm "moonlight" front light + same back linear point light as above)

View attachment 2330601

But most of the time I lean towards the second image because even if less realistic. I like the warmth tones better. Plus in the end, I am emulating a bit of a Theater play, so I try convincing myself than most of my scenes are being like this and realism is not that important since important characters have spot lights following them around

View attachment 2330603

If that's the aesthetic you are going for, then I think you nailed it.

Regarding the third image. The third image is part of a series. The series works fine, I think, but I have obviously not explained that so how could anybody else know, right ? The hang image should be darker, the hanged man should be "formless". The little girl should be high-lighted, the books should be high-lighted. That is how I imagine it because the moment the little girl finds him, she doesn't really understand what it is going on. She only wanted a new book (that is what she holds). He is not bleeding, or has any bruises. Therefore, she doesn't interpret the scene as the man being hurt. She only needs to say something like "Mr. XYZ ?", once with this image, the second one with black scene and it can move to the next render of her outside several time later.

Ah formless, that is difficult because, without enough light on the subject, the render will be grainy and take forever. Unfortunately, postwork is the only real answer I can think of. Remove everything except the character, with no HDRI or any lights. Basically, render a blacked-out figure on a transparent background (this should render pretty quickly) from the same camera. Then use that as a mask in a photo editor to adjust the exposure of the character instead of the entire image. The other way to do this would be to light the character without the set in place (again with transparent background), adjust the lighting and/or exposure, and then paste it onto the final render. Either way, there would have to be some photo editing to get that effect.