I apologize for taking so long to respond. Your comment is so wonderful that it would be so unforgivable not to reply. And communicating with an interesting person is always educational.
I like the way you pinpoint the way they behave, and I actually agree with your assumptions, they all deal with trauma in some capacity, all of them, and I'll include the MC in all that, cause it's the same for him, he has the same conflicts with the actual Emma than with the former one, but he made the whole situation his redemption, it goes deep.
What I disagree with, is you final assessment, I don't think they can't develop healthy relationships, cause I believe everybody can heal, sometimes even without professional help, they just have to accept they have problems, first and foremost.
Charlotte sees, while we play, and if the MC gives her space, that he's a good guy, she's tormented by her attraction, but she pushes through it nonetheless, cause she felt, for the first time in decades, safe in the arms of a man. Yeah she's conflicted, very understandably, her flashbacks are sick... and while I never went through what she went, I've dealt with past traumas for most of my life, sometimes it's trivial, you just need to understand what 'mental switch' you have to press, at other times it's more complicated... I think her inner conflict is well-written, conflict there wouldn't be at the first place if he didn't treat Emma right. (also, I didn't fool around with Lucy, nor with Kaylah, so I suppose it helped, my MC isn't a 'pig') As long as the MC give her time, if on her path, she'll open long-locked doors.
Lucy, absolutely, the black sheep, the 'lesser child', the one in the shadows, always left behind or tossed aside cause she isn't the 'one'. Deep wounds, she will have to deal with her youth, with her 'inner child', for sure, cause yeah, you did pinpoint her need for attention, her aggressive behavior toward men. She deserves someone in her life, but as long as she doesn't deal with her youth, those relationships will falter as fast as they came. She has to see herself, and love herself, first and foremost, my MC rejected her twice, don't know if that's what triggered her inner turmoil, she's self-conscious. She also has to understand her life isn't defined by her sister.
Suzi, yeah her hate of the MC, her outbursts of rage, and otherwise the way she weirdly objectify herself, I think you're right, there's something against men, and yeah, it probably stems from her abandonment from her father. Can't just comment more, cause we only see her a couple times, she needs development big time.
And Emma, yeah, she's 18 but acts like she's 12... her emotional development, from being overprotected all her life, really, -really- is stunted, she isn't stupid, far from that, but living in a 'fairy bubble' will absolutely give you a false perception of things around you, especially when confronted with how things actually work when you're 18. In her case, like you said, she wants to be treated like a little princess, exactly like everybody around her does, I mean, it's the only reality she knows, but she'll get in trouble big time everytime she has to deal with the outside world, people will bully her out of envy/jealousy, jerks will try to use her for their own benefit cause she's an 'easy' target (like that bitch, Zak), and depending how we treat her with our MC, I guess. Innocence, purity, sadly those are rare traits predators look for. In her case, perhaps Jenny will actually wake her up to the real world, cause it sure won't come from the people around her.
Whenever I feel an AVN has the right amount of psychology in it, I kind of feel inspired, so pardon my long reply.
Like I said, I agree with your 'worst-case' scenarios, I just don't think it's as doomed as you seem to think, I think there's a possible 'redemption' for all of them, and perhaps a real one for the MC. Peace.
"What I disagree with, is your final assessment, I don't think they can't develop healthy relationships, cause I believe everybody can heal, sometimes even without professional help, they just have to accept they have problems, first and foremost."
Of course, the first step to treatment is admitting the problem. Only Charlotte partially admits her problem at the time of version 0.12 (and 0.15.1. too), that she has some psychological problems that affected her personality (here I will describe those that I saw in her, and not those that she admitted to herself):
A. Lack of fulfillment of a dream/opportunity:
1. As a child, she dreamed of a big and charming wedding, but her ex-boyfriend did not ask her to marry. (Although this is easy to fix
);
2. She became a famous world model, the queen of Hillside, but she never realized her dream. She initially came to conquer Hillside as an actress, not a model. Even though she shot in several films, coming to the cinema as an already established and known model, but suddenly Mr. Wolff set her conditions - if you want to be an actress, then you must sleep with me. Charlie did not agree with that. She was not ready to pay such a price for her dream. And she would not have had the opportunity to gain independence in such conditions; she would have become a doll, a thing in the hands of Wolff.
B. Her group social identity was rejected and devalued - I will assume that Charlie dreamed of a big and happy family (Charlie did not have an abortion, and gave birth to two beautiful girls, despite the fact that her modeling career was at its very beginning, and she was not married, which means that children are important and primary for her). But suddenly, out of the blue, her beloved man leaves (I want to know for what reason), leaving her alone with two young children. Thus, he rejected her (as a woman), devalued her aspirations (he did not need either a family or children). Considering that PTSD appeared only 4 years ago (as far as I remember, 4 years ago, before the beginning of the game's narrative, Charlie was attacked by Jason), and Charlie's loneliness has lasted for 17 years, therefore, she could not find a suitable man for 13 years. Perhaps (!), in response to the trauma she had experienced, Charlie rejected and devalued men, afraid to repeat the experience, the feeling of loss and resentment. I can also assume that she did not want the girls to become attached to her partner, who could leave and hurt them. For Charlie, children are great value.
C. PTSD and loss of basic safety needs - safety issues have snowballed on her. At first, money problems (after giving birth, she needs to get in shape and get back to work, and her ex may have left her without money at all), the need to find and buy a home (I don’t remember exactly whether Charlie bought the house after her breakup with her ex or not) plus she has two children on her hands, then ambiguous hints and actions towards little Emma on the set (Charlie's overprotection and anxiety for Emma begins here). Then there was various sexual harassment from employers and workers on the set (remember the photographer who gave her a tranquilizer and wanted to rape her (he had already taken off his pants and was waving his dick in front of Charlie’s face), but the makeup artist (Amy?) and Lucy intervened in time), an attempted rape by Wolff (Charlie was able to fight back and escape). And, finally, a beating by Jason. First, she got anxiety syndrome, then PTSD appeared. In order to forget about her problems and emotional wounds for a while and find some relief from it, Charlie started drinking alcohol, which only aggravated her anxiety syndrome and panic attacks appeared, which forced her to turn to the best psychiatrists/psychotherapists of Hillside. They prescribed her an anxiolytic and tranquilizer - Diazepam, which is not prescribed for more than 2 weeks according to WHO recommendations (dependence develops), which means that they only relieved her acute condition associated with anxiety, fear and insomnia. After some time, she had to switch to another, soft drug, receive psychotherapy and provide herself and her family with protection (to hire a bodyguard) - she did none of this. Probably because Diazepam made her feel better and, being a strong personality with strong-willed character traits, she was able to continue living for the sake of her children and not give up everything, leaving for another country, state or city. She took on obligations and continued to fulfill them, remaining deeply unhappy. Lucy tells us (players, not the MC) that the best therapists in Hillside could not help her - this is fair enough, because until the patient wants to be healthy, even the best doctors will not succeed...
Charlie's difficult life path to becoming a world-famous model and the queen of Hillside has taken its toll on her. How can she be helped now? The safety problems are partially solved: she has money, a house, parental and professional obligations are coming to an end, and a protector has appeared. While the MC is nearby, nothing threatens her. Charlie has stopped drinking, the number of panic attacks has decreased, but PTSD has not gone away. The MC cannot help with PTSD. And as soon as the MC leaves, the feeling of safety will disappear with him. Charlie continues to live with the trauma (she periodically has nightmares about that ill-fated alley). Based on real psychiatric practice, Charlie is a difficult patient who requires treatment; she cannot cope with these problems on her own; she needs the help of a psychotherapist to work through this trauma and get rid of it. She cannot build a healthy relationship with the MC without a psychotherapist.
"Yeah she's conflicted, very understandably, her flashbacks are sick... and while I never went through what she went, I've dealt with past traumas for most of my life, sometimes it's trivial, you just need to understand what 'mental switch' you have to press, at other times it's more complicated..."
She is contradictory because she continues to live cyclically, experiencing her trauma. She understands in her mind that it is time to change something in her life. She sincerely wants to feel the warmth of communication and relationships with men, but fear does not allow her to break free, to get out of this vicious circle. Someone succeeds, and someone doesn't. In Charlie's case, she needs help.
"Charlotte [...] I think her inner conflict is well-written, conflict there wouldn't be at the first place if he didn't treat Emma right."
That's right, she wouldn't let the MC be so close to her in such a short time (it's been 2 months since the MC appeared in their house). She needed an outside opinion about the MC (Emma had talked about him before and had experienced almost the same thing as Charlie, so her opinion was decisive). And Charlie, finally remembering the conversations with Emma-model in the French café, decisively forms a clear opinion about the MC - a good, kind, sweet guy, who protected Emma as much as he could, although she was not his client and did not pay him for his work. He did it because he thought it was right.
"Lucy, [...] She deserves someone in her life, but as long as she doesn't deal with her youth, those relationships will falter as fast as they came. She has to see herself, and love herself, first and foremost, [...] She also has to understand her life isn't defined by her sister".
My thoughts exactly! Lucy wouldn't be able to solve her problem on her own. All this time she lived her sister's life - worked as her agent, helped her daughters, protected Charlie from the dirty, depraved hands of influential men. But during all this time, Lucy never built her own family nest, and did not have her own children. If in 10–20 years she could not understand this, reflect, separate herself from her sister, love herself and start living her own life, then it is unlikely that she will be able to do everything right any time soon. In this situation, avoiding conflict (moving away from Charlie) will not resolve it. Lucy needed to face this conflict and talk to her sister - to say to her face everything that had accumulated over the years. She can find a psychologist who could help her do this faster.
"And Emma, [...] In her case, like you said, she wants to be treated like a little princess [...]"
Here I mean that her boyfriend/husband fulfills all her wishes and whims, playing the role of a father, because she did not receive his love in childhood, so she will want everything at once. At first, it will be touching, but then become irritating and eventually lead to a breakup.
"In her case, perhaps Jenny will actually wake her up to the real world, cause it sure won't come from the people around her".
This is also true, but I'm not sure about Jenny, especially after she gave up their friendship. But Kaylah can become a guide to the adult world for Emma.
There is a psychological technique for Emma and Suzi's case, when, even without knowing how your parent looks like, you can imagine him and picture him, talk to him. Again, they need the help of a psychotherapist, although they can limit themselves to the help of a medical psychologist.
"[...] I'll include the MC in all that, cause it's the same for him, he has the same conflicts with the actual Emma than with the former one, but he made the whole situation his redemption, it goes deep".
The MC's psychological problems were not so obvious before version 0.15.1. His mother played a huge role in his character and trauma. His stepfather beat him and her (possibly raped her), and the MC could not help. Having become older and stronger, he was able to fight back, but he could not completely get rid of his stepfather (=save his mother), because she asked his son not to do this (in fact, his mother was in a codependent relationship). The MC's desire to help others, especially women, stems from his childhood, as a compensatory reaction - I could not help my mother, so I will help others. His choice to serve in the army meant to protect the homeland and society, plus, having found himself on the street, he had a choice: to go into crime or join the army / police academy. Being well-mannered and smart, he understood that crime would not give him anything good. And subsequently, his choice to be a bodyguard also stems from trauma.
What is worth paying attention to and exploring is the presence of PTSD in the MC's mind. He was at war, saw people and his comrades in arms die. War leaves its mark on everyone involved in it. So, did he have such an experience that the MC somehow harmed his loved ones? Perhaps he now deliberately avoids close relationships with women, afraid of harming them and can't help them. I remember that DB once wrote that the MC was twice dumped by girls who cheated on him. But what is hidden under this? It is fascinating to know...
“Like I said, I agree with your 'worst-case' scenarios, I just don't think it's as doomed as you seem to think, I think there's a possible 'redemption' for all of them [...]”.
Both a happy and an unhappy outcome are possible for all the main characters. It is clear that the ending in this VN will be a happy ending, because only a few works of literature, cinema and games have had a truly tragic/dramatic ending. All art serves one purpose - to give a person hope and faith in the best. But if we extrapolate the plot further and take real life as a basis (outside the VN, which is what
Smarmint suggested), then after a few years the feelings of novelty and passion will go away, falling in love will turn into a habit, and everyday life will reveal internal conflicts and problems. Love cannot grow on scorched barren land and bear fruit. Because you need to invest your own efforts in a relationship, not to let this fire turn into a small and weak flame, which can go out with a weak breath of wind. And in order to give something to someone, you need to have the resources for it yourself.
Each woman of the Lloyd family has not worked through their problems to the end, and sooner or later they will have to do this, otherwise the boat "family" will crash on the rocks of the "problem", and it will not be possible to build a healthy relationship (the characters are not yet ready to admit their problems).
“Whenever I feel an AVN has the right amount of psychology in it, I kind of feel inspired, so pardon my long reply”.
Me too. There is something to think about.
Mr. DB is doing a great job!
And your answer is wonderful!
