VN Ren'Py Hillside [v0.16.1] [DarkBlue]

[Canto Forte]

This game is that good that we are going back and forth about what who done where to whom.

There are good points that are canon, the fact the ”broken arm” was not broken, but used to
slip out of the hold, as pointed out by LWtbo with photo proof.

Then there is a very overarching theory about the killer cop that is very convincing IMHO,
thank you NewTricks for that.

The thing is, the fight never ended and if it was MMA, the choke would be held until the guy felt unresponsive.
Effectively, that is so close to a legit choke hold in a televized fight where one guy can and should choke
the other guy until one guy falls unresponsive or taps out or the refferee intervines.

The only time MC let go was when the killer felt unresponsive, doing the legit MMA stunt.
All world agrees a choke is legit until the opponent falls unresponsive, if he refuses to tap out,
in public sanctioned fights for money in tournaments where one MMA fighter can legit
choke into unresponsiveness/seijures/fainting/coma the opponent who would not tap out.

We are all talking about this like we see it, but we should acknowledge the killer who never stopped
never asked to stop, never relented after attacking, we also should acknowledge the victim,
MC was very convincingly threatened with being stabbed to death,
on top of that, he was threattened that the girls would be killed too after him dying.

The two men had, by all intents and purposes guns on them, but neither man took it out.
MC managed to diffuse the Emma situation by acceptin unarmed combat, to which the killer
said ok.

MC talking the killer out of killing Emma is a win in any book or law or anything.

Then the killer came at MC. MC maintained minimum force, fighting barehanded against armer assailant.

Again, MC is in the right.

Then he got hold of the killer. There is the issue, the killer never fainted, never gave up, never tapped out.

This situation only stops with one of the brawlers becoming unresponsive.

The killer still has motive, determination and mopre and more will to kill not only MC
but the girls also. His attack never stopped, MC just got a hold of him,
but the killer is fighting the hold and wants to continue the killing.

That, for me, is plain to see.

Thank you for being this much engaged.
Have a heart and consider the actual certinty that the killer never tapped out, never surrendered
and now they were both hand to hand in MMA type struggle.

Make no mistake, MMA fighters do break outta such holds all the time,
so the fact you all root for the killer and want MC to let go and be killed,
as according to so many MMA fights, realistically, the killer could continue the struggle MMA style and win,
is just in bad taste for me, you do you, but in a strreet brawl life is waaay easier takne and there is no cerainty.
The kiler never relented, he was just stalled momentarily by MC.

Also please consider breaking a neck is not that easy, precisely as trained MMA fighters resist all the time,
many even get outta chokes and turn the tide. This is the reality of unarmed fighting today.

Thank you for your love for the game and do continue talking and gaming.
MC had this small win but his girls are terrified outta their minds and Charli has been more in tears
towards MC than smiling, so the heartache right now is immense, no point in whaling on MC any more.

To be honest Zak is easy to explain he's a teen with an over inflated ego akin to a god complex and as seen with David a temper.
It wouldn't matter if he had been planning for years to be honest.
Somebody he believes is so far below him that she should be gratefull and groveling that he has decided to grace her with his presence.
Not to mention he is willing to lower himsel to actually allow her to have sex with him.
And she has the nerve the audacity to basically turn him down.
We are lucky his face didn't turn red and steam didn't come out of his ears.
This nobody this insignificant girl as much as said no to him.
Thats probably never happened to him in his entire life so for me at least him blowing a gasket and giving up on his plan.
By letting slip in his frustrated rage make sence the only thing on his mind at the time was to hurt the liitle nobody that had just pricked hi ego.
at least that my opinion.
As for Carter thats a little trickyer for a start I don't think David is in jail atleast not yet if at all.

Spoiler: Spoiler

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At least that my theory I could and probably am wrong mind you.

Except, he wasn't armed anymore. The MC broke his arm and made him drop the knife. So your point is moot. The assailant was disabled and under control. Killing him was a choice.

You know... I gave you props on what you said earlier, and then I gave you my opinion. At no point did I resort to trying to make you look stupid. Adults have conversations and discussions; this is just a game and is not real life. We were debating ideas not reality.

Instead, you resorted to what is essentially verbal bullying. Just because you talk tough and you make fun of others, does not make you right. It means, right or wrong, you have an opinion. I can disagree with you and still respect your opinion and at the same time, I can treat you with some common courtesy. You should learn to do the same.

Not to in any way contradict all of your post as I agree with most of it.
However you may want to revise the Broken arm part.
I would say that the MC only hurt Carter's arm enough to force him to drop the knife.
He didn't actually break it although I'm no medical expert.
But it looks like from the angle he might of broken the arm.

Spoiler: Spoiler

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That the assailant would not of been able to use it in the way that he do's to help try and break the choke hold.

Spoiler: Spoiler

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Just sayin

Zak is awesome, Zak loves me, Zak is this, Zak is that. Anyone who says otherwise is dead for me. I can even disown my own mom for Zak!
That Emma girl was super annoying at this update.
Anyway, other than that, it was a perfect update. 9/10 easily. I sense that sexual and some drama is on its way with the next updates.

EDIT:

Spoiler: Can someone explain

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I will do my best to explain. Once upon a time, Detective Carter was in love with a model named Emma. That "she would never look at me that way so I won't even try" kind of love that makes you sick. In his case, sick in the head. Unfortunately, he was already under the thumb of the guy who was running her like a whore and had to follow his orders. Jason, I think. Even despite all that, he put her on a pedestal.

Then the guy who was protecting her got fired and left and her friend Charlotte convinced her to go to the police to report that Jason had killed another model, signing Emma's death warrant because the Hillside PD works for the studios. So Carter had to kill Emma personally. Then to twist the knife, he had to tell her parents. Then something in him broke. He started acting irrationally. Started being a loose cannon. He became obsessed with revenge. But against who? He couldn't do anything against Jason because that guy owns him. So he fixated on MC and Charlotte. It was their fault he had to kill Emma. They were the ones who would pay.

So the entire game was kicked off by his plan. Get MC and Charlotte together, make them close, whip up reasons for him to always be at the house. Hope he would fall in love with Charlotte and bond with Emma. So when the time came, he could take them away from him and he would know his pain. So he was the one who hired the photographer, but the idiot went off script and blackmailed Suzi. Then David came into the police station to blow the whistle on whatever collusion he had going with Zac. So what few marbles he had started rolling away as his needlessly elaborate revenge plan unraveled and he said "Fuck it. Murder it is."

I might be wrong about some of this, but it is all that I can gather and extrapolate from his psychotic ramblings.

Peace!

 

[SteelyDan14]

I like Emma, but there was times where i was like urghhh, especially when she was told she cant go on her date, it was understandable because she is clueless to whats happening and she is used to get her own way but it was still just immature. I personally dont know how anyone can see her as a LI right now, i think now she has seen what zac is like and she was saved by the mc it might change the way she thinks about him which is where her feelings might change. Im going to stop that shit straight away though. Before this update i didnt see any way she would change how she views the mc but after this one i think thats the only way so far.

I think what I should have said is I don't like Emma as a LI for the MC, but otherwise, from the MCs perspective, I can see why he likes her and wants to protect her. So yes... totally agree.

 

[Mesmerizet]

Zak never went to Charlotte's. He didn't do anything but sending Emma phone messages and let his school friends bully her (and fucking her old friend). Zak never did anything outside school.

Johno is NOT working for Zak. He's working for Carter.

On the contrary, he did. When Emma and Zak talk about their first date, Zak comments that he knows where he she lives and he's "been there before". It implied that he was the person who left the photo on the patio.

The only paparazzi we know is Johno, so its likely that Johno clicked the photo and Zak left it in the home. But in the latest update it was inferred that Johno was working directly for Carter, so how Zak fits into all of this is pretty confusing.

How far do you want the manwhore rapist sex harrasser plot line to continue?
That asshole outlived his stake in the story long ago.
We got a lot of new villains introduced and some old ones get swift retribution
for their troubles.
MC is officially last line of deffense against killers out for charli. Point blank and plain.
We get a front row seat to what it feels and looks and thinks like,
when you stand barehanded in the street, alone, smack center between killers and your girls.

That is not pretty and the sacrifice is you go all in. MC stopped a killer. PEriod.
You can mourn the rapists and the killers all you want now ... in their long overdue deaths.

Of course, I'm sure that most people here were happy that Zak died. However, the way he was killed off was indeed rushed and it makes me feel like the dev wants to be done with this in 4-5 updates (hey, that's not bad but going with the pace of no sex scenes so far, I really think the game would end with like one scene for each LI and that's it).

Plus, let's not forget that Zak talks about a "Plan B" in the movie theater and comments that "Charlotte may not like it". That's most likely inferring rape/drugging.

So yeah, Zak is a dumbass and mostly an antagonist for the MC, but I'd have really loved him to just be beaten up by the MC instead. Either way, he's out of the picture (most likely, unless the dev pulls a 360 and says he survived the stabbing, which is unlikely)

Well, first of all, I agree with you when you say it's the author's story and although we can complain, we'll have to live with what they decide.

However, I believe DB could've made some small changes in this last part of the update to make it more believable. From this perspective, I agree with others here on criticizing not the outcome itself, but the format.

Going to the detail:

• Zak is (was) stupid, but using at least a minimum of common sense, he should've known that revealing all his plans to Emma made no sense at all, or at least if he still had hope to fuck Charlotte. I mean, he could've blamed Emma of being the one who ruined their date because she was a prude and at the same time he'd still be letting the door open to a second date, ask for forgiveness, meet Charlotte again, etc. I mean, pretending to fuck her in their first date made sense at the beginning but when you have a higher goal, you need to learn and adapt to the new conditions. So, was this behavior (what he did in the scene) sort of coherent with his stupid mind? Yes. Did DB have alternatives to extend this part of the plot and make it more interesting? Indeed.
• Regarding Carter, and knowing he's a psycho, I'd say almost all the scene is ok but there's something wrong. After the initial cut, there wasn't much of a fight (the MC was way stronger and skilled in these matters). From a witness perspective, the MC killed Carter when he (Carter) had no options to fight back. For us there was no other possible solution to this problem but I think DB should've added something else to justify Carter's death. I don't know, maybe him drawing his gun, even if he could only point at the women and wasn't a real threat to the MC (something like that).

Regards

Exactly. Let's also not forget that everyone (Charlotte & MC & Lucy) forget about how Emma walked in on Zak fucking Jenny and suddenly think its "alright" for her to go on a date with the same boy (Zak). Complete oversight.

I guess what Zak's story shows is that although he had a plan, he lacked the conviction and courage to go through with it and decided to just improvise in a clumsy way.

As I said before, Plan B is likely drug/rape lmao. So yeah, he deserved what was coming to him however I'd have still preferred for him to beaten up by the MC rather than killed by Carter as he could have provided more amusement in the future storyline by being alive. Anyway, what's done is done.

The fact that Carter gave up his only leverage and put himself in a 1v1 with a very qualified bodyguard is dumb tbh. For posterity's sake, I support the current ending just because no-one was harmed. In any case, I doubt Carter will be coming back. There's higher chances for Zak to survive a stab in the gut (assuming it didn't hit any fatal areas, but that's unlikely) than Carter to survive his neck being snapped. Since its the MC who did it, you can pretty much be sure that Carter's dead.

About the topic regarding Emma being underage, I'm definitely sure that this game is modelled with that in mind. At least the creepy parts are excluded from this game. There are other games too where some characters seem likely 12-14 and are just "shown as 18" which just seems to be the dev wanting to cater to all types of people (incest, loli, etc.). Personally these just irk me but I'm fine as long as the said route is avoidable.

Personally I can't get into the Emma LI route since the only route I see for her is as a daughter-figure if not an actual daughter in the future.

 

[TheCrimsonRevenger]

Well now that the "Stalker" is beaten, maybe the MC's terminal case of drydick finally gets cured. lol

Though so much has been made of the MC being this hyper-virtuous guy that I have a hard time imagining any scenario that would let him pursue multiple girls simultaneously without it being wildly contradictory to everything else that's happened to this point.

So I imagine soon we'll have to pick a girl(Charlottte or Lucy) and it will lock out the other. Maaaaaaaybe fool around on the side with Kayla or Suzi's girlfriend but again that would feel so counter to everything else that's happened up to now.

I can't possibly envision any scenario at this point for MC to get with Emma that wouldn't A) Feel creepy AF(She acts like a 10 year old and is firmly locked in a daughter/father dynamic with MC), and B) Result in MC needing to hire a bodyguard to protect him from Charlotte/Lucy/Suzi both

 

[UncleFredo]

It would be helpful if those discussing Carter's killing to familiarize yourselves with the definition of murder, which is a legal matter not a moral one. Self defense mitigates a murder charge even if the killing was intentional. Carter assaulted the MC with a deadly weapon and the stated intent to kill him and others immediately present. It is unarguable that the MC acted in self defense and his actions will be judged in that context. The MC is not under any obligation to mitigate the force/violence of his defense under those circumstances. Yes the MC killed Carter. However he committed neither murder, nor manslaughter, nor homicide. The circumstances surrounding Carter's attack means that while the MC was a willing killer, he was not a murderer.

In any event these arguments are all moot. The only person that knows the MCs intent is the MC. All anyone else can testify too is that Carter attacked the MC with a knife and was killed in the struggle as the MC defended himself.

 

[NewTricks]

I'm going to sound off a bit about Emma being underage. I personally believe she is a legal adult, albeit an immature one. It is possible that she is intended to be underage or at least play into that fetish, though. She is attending "college" which in the US denotes a 2-year or 4-year postsecondary institution but in the UK can mean more of what people in the states call a prep school. I only bring this up because the game also uses some other UK jargon even though it takes place in a Hollywood, CA knock-off. But even if she is going to a prep school (some of them don't have uniforms) that doesn't mean that she cannot be over 18 if she is in her senior year.

So the question of whether she is coded as an underage girl for fetishistic purposes is really up to the individual to decide. But I will comment that the relationship between her and MC growing as a father/daughter pair also plays into a fetish. So that is up in the air too. I think that whether MC ultimately chooses Lucy or Charlotte as his partner, Emma will without a doubt develop a crush on him and complicate things with jealous and immature behavior. Now that the focus is likely to shift away from just protecting her to dealing with threats to the entire family (and perhaps legal troubles) she may start to feel left out. Given how the game has developed thus far, this jealousy and immaturity could take her to a very dark place. I don't foresee this becoming a happy little daddy-daughter simulator.

 

[Bendover885]

It would be helpful if those discussing Carter's killing to familiarize yourselves with the definition of murder, which is a legal matter not a moral one. Self defense mitigates a murder charge even if the killing was intentional. Carter assaulted the MC with a deadly weapon and the stated intent to kill him and others immediately present. It is unarguable that the MC acted in self defense and his actions will be judged in that context. The MC is not under any obligation to mitigate the force/violence of his defense under those circumstances. Yes the MC killed Carter. However he committed neither murder, nor manslaughter, nor homicide. The circumstances surrounding Carter's attack means that while the MC was a willing killer, he was not a murderer.

In any event these arguments are all moot. The only person that knows the MCs intent is the MC. All anyone else can testify too is that Carter attacked the MC with a knife and was killed in the struggle as the MC defended himself.

One major issue in our discussion regarding self-defense and/or murder is that we (the players) have the benefit of looking frame by frame at the incident, whereas in a real scenario, this is a split-second decision based on incomplete information. I'd say this is the ex-military background that makes him decisive here, not the cold, ruthless killing.

Spoiler: My 2 Cents

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[Bendover885]

I'm going to sound off a bit about Emma being underage. I personally believe she is a legal adult, albeit an immature one. It is possible that she is intended to be underage or at least play into that fetish, though. She is attending "college" which in the US denotes a 2-year or 4-year postsecondary institution but in the UK can mean more of what people in the states call a prep school. I only bring this up because the game also uses some other UK jargon even though it takes place in a Hollywood, CA knock-off. But even if she is going to a prep school (some of them don't have uniforms) that doesn't mean that she cannot be over 18 if she is in her senior year.

So the question of whether she is coded as an underage girl for fetishistic purposes is really up to the individual to decide. But I will comment that the relationship between her and MC growing as a father/daughter pair also plays into a fetish. So that is up in the air too. I think that whether MC ultimately chooses Lucy or Charlotte as his partner, Emma will without a doubt develop a crush on him and complicate things with jealous and immature behavior. Now that the focus is likely to shift away from just protecting her to dealing with threats to the entire family (and perhaps legal troubles) she may start to feel left out. Given how the game has developed thus far, this jealousy and immaturity could take her to a very dark place. I don't foresee this becoming a happy little daddy-daughter simulator.

Personally, I think it's not for the purpose of fetishizing Emma that she acts like she does. Granted, she is the youngest 18 year old I've ever encountered in a fictional work.

But everything else in the game, sexually speaking, has been fairly conventional, vanilla. To have a fetishized daddy-daughter thing going on the middle would be out of place.

I suspect that the reason she acts like she does is to give her a direction for character growth. We saw a bit of assertiveness during the date with Zak. She will continue the path to more confidence, a more realistic view of the world in light of the Det. Carter incident. She will be a completely different person when MC and she are ready to pursue each other, as compared to where she started. I would hope.

 

[TomUK]

I suspect that the reason she acts like she does is to give her a direction for character growth. We saw a bit of assertiveness during the date with Zak. She will continue the path to more confidence, a more realistic view of the world in light of the Det. Carter incident. She will be a completely different person when MC and she are ready to pursue each other, as compared to where she started. I would hope.

I'm not so sure, I think realistically she would regress more after her date with Zak and being attacked and nearly (in her eyes) being murdered and seeing the mc even more as her hero might push her even more towards him.

 

[TheCrimsonRevenger]

It would be helpful if those discussing Carter's killing to familiarize yourselves with the definition of murder, which is a legal matter not a moral one. Self defense mitigates a murder charge even if the killing was intentional. Carter assaulted the MC with a deadly weapon and the stated intent to kill him and others immediately present. It is unarguable that the MC acted in self defense and his actions will be judged in that context. The MC is not under any obligation to mitigate the force/violence of his defense under those circumstances. Yes the MC killed Carter. However he committed neither murder, nor manslaughter, nor homicide. The circumstances surrounding Carter's attack means that while the MC was a willing killer, he was not a murderer.

In any event these arguments are all moot. The only person that knows the MCs intent is the MC. All anyone else can testify too is that Carter attacked the MC with a knife and was killed in the struggle as the MC defended himself.

I'm flabbergasted that anyone can argue the MC murdered Carter. I realize that's not what you're doing here. I just didn't notice this debate until your comment which is why I quoted it.

"Murder" has a very specific meaning. You can be a killer without being a murderer. "Killer" simply describes someone who has killed. "Murder" is to kill someone unjustly. For example, soldiers on the battlefield are not murderers. Unless they deliberately kill non-combatants. A Boxer who kills his opponent in the ring is not a murderer even though he is now a killer.

The MC did not murder Carter. He absolutely killed him and was amply justified to do so. Yes, that is regardless of the fact that MC could have chosen to spare him: It doesn't matter that the MC could have spared him. MC had absolutely no moral obligation to do so and every reason to believe Carter would be a clear and ongoing threat if allowed to live.

I would argue that tactically, it might have been a smarter move to keep Carter alive for questioning but that's with me as a third party observer knowing more about the vast conspiracy than MC knew in that moment. Knowing only what MC knew in that moment he made a morally sound choice to eliminate the primary threat to the people he loved.

 

[operamini]

It would be helpful if those discussing Carter's killing to familiarize yourselves with the definition of murder, which is a legal matter not a moral one. Self defense mitigates a murder charge even if the killing was intentional. Carter assaulted the MC with a deadly weapon and the stated intent to kill him and others immediately present. It is unarguable that the MC acted in self defense and his actions will be judged in that context. The MC is not under any obligation to mitigate the force/violence of his defense under those circumstances. Yes the MC killed Carter. However he committed neither murder, nor manslaughter, nor homicide. The circumstances surrounding Carter's attack means that while the MC was a willing killer, he was not a murderer.

In any event these arguments are all moot. The only person that knows the MCs intent is the MC. All anyone else can testify too is that Carter attacked the MC with a knife and was killed in the struggle as the MC defended himself.

I really don't think the MC could use self defense as an excuse here, had for example the mc shot Carter while carter had the knife then sure, but the MC had him in a Choke hold, carter wasn't going anywhere after that point, if it was a trial and we didn't have video footage then MC would walk, but if we had footage then the MC would likely get some sort of conviction, because as other posts show i am not alone in thinking its no longer self defense at that point, so i think at least a few juries would agree with me.

I'm flabbergasted that anyone can argue the MC murdered Carter. I realize that's not what you're doing here. I just didn't notice this debate until your comment which is why I quoted it.

"Murder" has a very specific meaning. You can be a killer without being a murderer. "Killer" simply describes someone who has killed. "Murder" is to kill someone unjustly. For example, soldiers on the battlefield are not murderers. Unless they deliberately kill non-combatants. A Boxer who kills his opponent in the ring is not a murderer even though he is now a killer.

The MC did not murder Carter. He absolutely killed him and was amply justified to do so. Yes, that is regardless of the fact that MC could have chosen to spare him: It doesn't matter that the MC could have spared him. MC had absolutely no moral obligation to do so and every reason to believe Carter would be a clear and ongoing threat if allowed to live.

I would argue that tactically, it might have been a smarter move to keep Carter alive for questioning but that's with me as a third party observer knowing more about the vast conspiracy than MC knew in that moment. Knowing only what MC knew in that moment he made a morally sound choice to eliminate the primary threat to the people he loved.

A soldier is a murderer if he kills POWs for example, and after the choke hold that's basically what carter was imo.

Still murdering Carter might have been necessary, with how corrupt the city is, so i am not against doing it.

 

[MagLev]

Just for information, how far along's the relationship between the MC and the girls at this point? I played it a while ago and there wasn't a lot of "action" between them yet.

 

[Derpyshanks]

Just for information, how far along's the relationship between the MC and the girls at this point? I played it a while ago and there wasn't a lot of "action" between them yet.

Come back in a year or two fam.

 

[WCKD_FOX]

I would have kill him too. I mean, a corrupted murderer cop ? In a town rotten to the bone ? Unless the sexy Agent Fox put him in a jail forever, the only way to be sure Carter won't lay a finger on the Lloyd is to kill him, shit in his wide open dead mouth, burn is body and dance during the funeral service.

No other choice than kill him. Reminds me Man of Steel.

 

[operamini]

I would have kill him too. I mean, a corrupted murderer cop ? In a town rotten to the bone ? Unless the sexy Agent Fox put him in a jail forever, the only way to be sure Carter won't lay a finger on the Lloyd is to kill him, shit in his wide open dead mouth, burn is body and dance during the funeral service.

No other choice than kill him. Reminds me Man of Steel.

If this was IRL then the FBI, CIA, etc could be even more dangerous than currupt cops, those are the ones that helped guys like Epstein.

 

[WCKD_FOX]

If this was IRL then the FBI, CIA, etc could be even more dangerous than currupt cops, those are the ones that helped guys like Epstein.

Ahah, true. But I guess Agent Fox is a good girl here. She will probably learn about that "incident" with Carter and use it as leverage to force the MC to cooperate in her plan to catch all the bastards of Hillside, but that's all.

 

[UncleFredo]

I really don't think the MC could use self defense as an excuse here, had for example the mc shot Carter while carter had the knife then sure, but the MC had him in a Choke hold, carter wasn't going anywhere after that point, if it was a trial and we didn't have video footage then MC would walk, but if we had footage then the MC would likely get some sort of conviction, because as other posts show i am not alone in thinking its no longer self defense at that point, so i think at least a few juries would agree with me.

You don't understand. Self defense is not an EXCUSE. Because the MC acted in self defense against an attack with a deadly weapon by an attacker with the stated intent to kill, he is with in his rights to use whatever force he chooses, and can not be charged with murder. As stated a couple posts back, the MC has no legal obligation to spare Carter.

Theres no predicting what the Hillside legal system will decide to do, but in the real world the MC would not be charged with a crime and any attempt to do so would be set aside by a court.

 

[MagLev]

Come back in a year or two fam.

Sooo... Still close to nothing to see here? How long would you say a playthrough of the latest version would take?

 

[TheCrimsonRevenger]

A soldier is a murderer if he kills POWs for example, and after the choke hold that's basically what carter was imo.

Still murdering Carter might have been necessary, with how corrupt the city is, so i am not against doing it.

Actually that sort of depends on the context. It says alot about how culture has changed in modern times, that this is even a debate.

What possible moral obligation should I be expected to have to feed, clothe, bathe, medicate, and devote manpower to guarding men who tried to kill me and my friends? Especially in an active conflict? Men whom I have every reason to believe will go right back to trying to kill me and mine if freed?

That's a tough call, morally speaking. The ONLY obligation that comes into play here is a practical one and not a moral one: You would want the other side to treat their POWs as well as you treat your POWs...but that's heavily dependent on an honor system and if the other side is not culturally similar to yours, their idea of honor and their idea of humane conduct could be radically different from yours. the WW2 conflict with Japan is a good example of this....Americans were apalled to discover how their POWs had been treated by the Japanese as various Japanese POW camps were liberated. Starvation, torture, abuse was common.

But many Japanese soldiers of that time considered those who allowed themselves to be captured alive to be the lowest form of cowards and honorless dogs, and resented being forced to guard them and devote vital war resources to them rather than being out in the battlefield with their fellow soldiers. Every bit of food, medicine, and clothing being routed to these "honorless dogs" was food, medicine and clothing that wasn't going to the frontline soldiers who needed them. Every guard stuck in those POW camps was another soldier unable to fight to protect his brothers-in-arms and homeland. That's how they saw it.

Western notions of honor and humane treatment were very different from Eastern notions of honor and humane treatment. They still are today. Which side's "right"? The side that wins, obviously.

Setting that aside, by no reasonable means could Carter be considered a POW so it's moot. He was not remotely helpless. He was in an inferior position, against a superior opponent, sure. But in an active and ongoing struggle, both parties always have a fighting chance. I am not obligated to allow someone who is trying to kill me and those I care about to keep on struggling to do so until they manage to get lucky, or pull out yet another hidden weapon.

Carter is a grown, fit, healthy man who has had at least as much close combat/subdual training as was required to make it through the police academy and has already shown himself to be armed with multiple weapons and shown the will to use them.

You don't get to force a confrontation on someone else and then cry foul when it turns out they're more dangerous than you and willing to use the exact same(or even greater) level of force on you that you were all too happy to use on them when you thought you had the upper hand.

 

[Ganso7]

Sooo... Still close to nothing to see here? How long would you say a playthrough of the latest version would take?

This game its really slow burn, like a tortoise with an anchor. But I like the plot and its not boring to play it