So glad I'm not going crazy, the moment I saw the screenshots it just clicked that AI was being used but I wanted to be 100 percent sure before I started accusing, then I read the comments.
So, on F95Zone, go to search, click into the assets tab, select the Daz prefix, and now you can steal assets made by real artists. I found a horse penis on there for $5 on Renderotica, but for you it's free.
If you go through a Daz game and find every model you look at in the background, at $5 or more each, by the end of the game it'll be clear that the developer had to spend hundreds or thousands to make the game. But of course he didn't.
Those are the key points you'll hear in twitter arguments, but research is like poison to twitter users. I think the situation is a bit less black and white than that.
AI doesn't just copy and paste, it begins with noise (TV static) and it de-noises it. This process of de-noising can create any possible image, but the majority of possible images don't resemble anything recognizable, which is where training is meant to create a bias towards recognizable shapes.
Describing training as "learning" is simple, but it gives you the misconception that AI can only draw what it's seen before. For example, if the AI has seen a beer bottle, can it also generate a whisky bottle? No, it has no idea what whisky is, but if you teach it adjectives it can create something it's never seen before, "short fat square bottle".
This doesn't mean Stable Diffusion hasn't stolen art for it's dataset, it has and that's wrong, but I don't think it's right to say that everything an AI draws is taken from somewhere else, not made of theft.
It's not accurate to say that AI is doing this. The AI companies actually do not want to be associated with porn at all, and most of the work put into making them good at it comes from individual users, through the use of something called a "LoRA" (Low Rank Adaptation)
A LoRA is essentially a mod for the AI, it allows you to add more images to the dataset and increase the strength on them so that they influence the final product significantly, which is where you get people replicating artists' styles.
This is immoral, I do not like it, but it's also exactly the same as the issue with stolen Daz assets. It's an individual personally ripping art from one specific artist, and so I think that deserves legal action.
The confusion between this and the AI companies themselves comes from early services allowing you to prompt "in the style of picasso", which had artists scared. But that's not how it works at all, using AI does not mean associating with the mods replicating art-styles.
I'd say not using a LoRA and specifically disclosing that they're using AI is a pretty good move from this developer, because they absolutely have the option to edit flaws manually and just hide their use of AI entirely while ripping off another artist and claiming inspiration.
But what about image-to-image? If you draw a sketch, with your own original pose, in your own composition, with your own character design, your own colors, how much of that end result should belong to you?
I'm not going to say all of it does, I don't like that Stable Diffusion is trained on stolen art, but really what I'm describing here is half the process. I'm saying this as an artist myself, not an "AI artist", as someone who's been drawing since 2010 and painting since 2020.
What's appealing about AI, the reason I began looking into it, is that it does speed up the rendering process. There are tools that allow you to generate only a small part of an image, one piece at a time. How useful that is should be intuitive.
Using it as heavily as this game does doesn't appeal to me, I like having my own style, but letting AI handle small portions of a piece for me to refine manually is incredibly helpful, enough to do the same work in 1/3rd the time.
How much of the art process has to depend on slow manual work before the piece is your own? Anybody who's suffered through 2 hours of slowly putting together clean linework can see the appeal here. Consider that most of us are doing art after work, or on the weekend.
Maxapocolypse
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- Nov 23, 2020
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Besides what "azraelswegul" said earlier, AI stuff is so much more easily spammable than koikatsu/Daz stuff, especially when you consider how easy it is to start. Also, in the short amount of time generative AI has been around(at least since it became mainstream), it has and continues to Absolutely FLOOD websites like Rule34 with LITERAL MILLIONS, if not hundreds of thousands of posts (and these numbers still keep growing almost exponentially, SEE R34 to see the numbers.), these are numbers that are possibly 50x higher than all the creativecontent released on the internet since its creation and before generative AI went mainstream. As someone who experiments with generative AI, it can be fun and quite useful, but there are seemingly more downsides(AI deepfake/voice copy scams, data collection, etc) to the whole AI tech bubble than upsides.
Random tangent aside:
Main issue in this specific case is it not being tagged omegalul
srfsmrf_
Active Member
- May 24, 2024
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My ¢2: seems this simply qualifies as (another) 2cdg+aicg game we see all the time? So the aicg tag should be there already I guess. If, perhaps, dunno,
And going on the screenshots: there's a clear smell of aicg already.
So, to put it another way, not having the aicg tag seems inconsistent with how other games are tagged. (The explanation given in pinky96's posts simply qualifies this as 2dcg+aicg?)
is used as an argument to not have the tag: I don't think there's a single game here that works that way (i.e. having real-time generated aicg).
And going on the screenshots: there's a clear smell of aicg already.
So, to put it another way, not having the aicg tag seems inconsistent with how other games are tagged. (The explanation given in pinky96's posts simply qualifies this as 2dcg+aicg?)
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- May 17, 2017
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So interesting that AI art has such a look that you can tell at a glance when something uses it... Not looking forward to when that changes and we can't tell anymore.. lol
- Jul 29, 2017
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My bad
Edit : Just for info, wasn't bothered by the AI art to begin with. It looks good, art style looks different enough from all the other AI CG games.
I'm all for AI assisted content, if it means i can get more content and faster.
I'm of two minds. AI art isn't necessarily always horrible, especially if someone cared enough to go refine it. In general, i vastly prefer original art.My bad
Edit : Just for info, wasn't bothered by the AI art to begin with. It looks good, art style looks different enough from all the other AI CG games.
I'm all for AI assisted content, if it means i can get more content and faster.
On the other hand, the ai stuff potentially allows for people who can write and or code but have no art talent to make a game. One can argue that they should hire an artist, but realistically, that's not going to be viable for many.
$Jisk$
Newbie
- Nov 8, 2022
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Why do you use AI generation, don't you have any artists?
Artists are expensive. And here the AI looks good enough, and stylized enough to be ok. Unless you want to fund the art direction yourself?
$Jisk$
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- Nov 8, 2022
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Why is that? Aspiring artists are cheap, plus they need to prove themselves so that their services are expensive, and they can prove themselves anywhere, so I think it won't be difficult to find them, and if it does, it will pay off
Even aspiring artists need to eat. If i spent hours and hours drawing all the different scenes, poses, characters a game needs, i'd want to be paid for it.
$Jisk$
Newbie
- Nov 8, 2022
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So I didn't say that the artist wouldn't have been paid, but less than a more experienced one, and he would also have been mentioned in the credits.
You guys are arguing about what should or should not be tagged AI when this demo is like 15 minutes long. lol