How difficult should the puzzles be?

[ParadiseLofts]

Hi, all. I'm relatively new to coding, and have been having a blast learning how with my project. However, I am not new to puzzle and game development. It's been a hobby of mine for years, including one (a card game) that got professionally published over a decade ago, and had a second, small run again in 2016. For anonymity's sake, I'll not be naming it.


Anyway, I've included a few puzzles and minigames in my game, but damn, it seems some players give up fast on even the easiest of challenges. Because of that, I now have 'skip challenge' options available, so I guess I am asking this: Do you like brain teasers and challenges in your porn games? How complex do you want them in relation to casual games you might play?


So far, I have timing games, story-quest challenges, a logic puzzle, a speed clicker game, a plumbing puzzle (finished and coming in the next update), and a clues game where one mashes the clues together to form assumptions. The update to that is more graphical, where you'll investigate crime scenes and pull the best evidence to solve them . Obviously, most of the reward scenes come after one succeeds at a challenge. Prior to having the "skip" feature coded, there were some angry comments about having to retry a challenge. Some rage quitters, etc. Maybe it's just a vocal minority, but it's got me wondering… is this putting too much work into something that isn't appreciated? I'm not suggesting every mini-game I've made is top-notch, either> And of course, I'm trying to get better at coding to make them more dynamic, but still, I'd love to know your experiences and thoughts. Cheers!

 

[Deleted member 1706148]

I'm not really a fan of puzzle in erotic games myself but if it's something simple, then i'm cool w/ it.

Spoiler: Something simple like this

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Spoiler: But not something ridiculously easy where it loses the point of being a puzzle

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I guess just don't do something complicated to the point that it eats a lot of time solving & turns your pp limp.

Spoiler: Don't

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A lot of people hate puzzle as much as grinding in erotic games but in the end still depends on what u want. That's just my opinion & nice game btw

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

Do you like brain teasers and challenges in your porn games? How complex do you want them in relation to casual games you might play?

I don't play casual games and I don't play porn games for the dev's brilliant interpretation of Candy Crush or sudoku. I really don't understand the appeal or the point, besides introducing another aspect of grind to the game to prolong playtime.

 

[kytee]

I'm usually of the type that doesn't like mini-games in my visual novels with a few exceptions namely being Guitar Hero/Audiosurf like games. Those I almost entirely ignore the erotic content for the gameplay. I guess mini-games are fine for me (emphasis on ME) if they're of the type that I like to play, but if they're tedious and grindy, I'll skip it altogether.

 

[somebodynobody]

Hi, all. I'm relatively new to coding, and have been having a blast learning how with my project. However, I am not new to puzzle and game development. It's been a hobby of mine for years, including one (a card game) that got professionally published over a decade ago, and had a second, small run again in 2016. For anonymity's sake, I'll not be naming it.


Anyway, I've included a few puzzles and minigames in my game, but damn, it seems some players give up fast on even the easiest of challenges. Because of that, I now have 'skip challenge' options available, so I guess I am asking this: Do you like brain teasers and challenges in your porn games? How complex do you want them in relation to casual games you might play?


So far, I have timing games, story-quest challenges, a logic puzzle, a speed clicker game, a plumbing puzzle (finished and coming in the next update), and a clues game where one mashes the clues together to form assumptions. The update to that is more graphical, where you'll investigate crime scenes and pull the best evidence to solve them . Obviously, most of the reward scenes come after one succeeds at a challenge. Prior to having the "skip" feature coded, there were some angry comments about having to retry a challenge. Some rage quitters, etc. Maybe it's just a vocal minority, but it's got me wondering… is this putting too much work into something that isn't appreciated? I'm not suggesting every mini-game I've made is top-notch, either> And of course, I'm trying to get better at coding to make them more dynamic, but still, I'd love to know your experiences and thoughts. Cheers!

I guess the first thing to understand is target audience.

As you might notice on this site and most "adult" games in general the gamification is on the extremely simple side.

The flipside of this are the games that if you removed the adult stuff, could still stand on their own as a good game to play.

A lot of the games here people expect to play one handed, so throwing in a "be really fast here", "click 100 times", or "solve this brain teaser" makes them unhappy.

I am the type of person who likes games, so having something fun/interesting and challenging is nice, as long as it makes sense in the game. the crime scene thing makes me think of a "Phoenix Wright" porn game and that to me sounds neat.

However, yes the people who dislike something will tell you they dislike it more often than the people who like it will say they like it. Now I am not calling them a minority, but they are more vocal.

The simplest answer is have a skip/auto complete for those who don't want to or can't do them. It may seem like a "why bother" then, but the games are for people who like and can play them, and the rest can also see the rest of the thing you put work into, be it story, characterization, graphics, etc.

Not everyone is a spritely healthy 20 year old or using a good computer. People have disabilities (hand tremors/slow reaction times/etc), and a lot of people want to play these games on android because it is easier/better for them.

(Sorry on rambling, just woke up)

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

I am the type of person who likes games, so having something fun/interesting and challenging is nice, as long as it makes sense in the game. the crime scene thing makes me think of a "Phoenix Wright" porn game and that to me sounds neat.

I don't really play porn games for a challenge, but if it's well done and integrated into the story in a thoughtful way it could be good. The problem is that this is rarely the case. Most "puzzles" or minigames in porn games usually just feel tedious and tacked on to give you something to do before you get to the next bit of the game you actually want to see.

There's a reason most sandbox games or games with stupid minigames have instructions for how to cheat on their forum threads. It's not just because people are stupid and lazy, it's because people don't want to grind out your shit minigame for an hour before they get to see the next sex scene.

Four Elements Trainer, a game I like, is kind of guilty of this, the dev keeps putting in minigames you have to do over and over to be able to progress the plot/see more sexy times. Most recently a horribly laggy and clunky version of Bejeweled/Candy Crush. So I just enabled the console and gave myself unlimited money, because why would I waste my time with that?

 

[Glorified_ignorance]

Hello,

There are 3 levels of difficulty:

1. Easy
2. Doable
3. Annoying

Avoid repeatable annoyance, and dont make it too easy. Pick difficulty on content you are trying for players to work for. Struggles will gradually make its target non reachable and simple put annoying process, and if the goal isint what worked for, well you can imagine negativity building up.
I would aswell include what previous posts wrote about people itself, not everyone can keep up with "hardcore" puzzles.
To sum it up puzzles overall in my opinion has to be challenging, but at same time interesting. What makes it special about you, its how you manage to crackdown the combo called balance.

IMO buildin up game, and making algorythm that would track down "how fast" level is completed or how many plus items was collected more on the way. That would pick next levels difficulty is pretty smart idea. Picking range, and setting difficulty for it. I do hope this makes sense.

Good luck!

 

[riktor]

if the puzzles / games make sense plot wise i'm fine with it, if they are essentially just there as a time sink i'm not.

 

[khumak]

I enjoy some puzzles and minigames but generally only enjoy having to really work through it the first time so an option to skip it is really preferable IMO especially after you've completed it once (even if you failed). If you really want to do that link the pipes mini game or whatever every time that's fine but the 5th playthrough for me I don't want to have to bother with it. And for a mini game I find unenjoyable I would rather be able to skip it from the get go or at the least, give me the option after I've failed it once or twice. An example of a commonly used minigame that drives me nuts is the timed memory game (flip over a bunch of cards and remember where everything is to match to).

Some of the really difficult puzzles are actually quite enjoyable to me. For instance I like chess. If you had an actual chess game as a challenge, I would actually play it. A lot of people would find that really frustrating though. Same thing with card games. I generally like most card games. Some people don't.

I don't mind spending an hour on a mini game if I genuinely enjoy playing it but I don't want to struggle through a similarly difficult puzzle that is not fun to me. I would also say that if you're going to do puzzles or mini games they should NEVER happen DURING a sex scene. I don't want to have to try and muddle through a mini game to get the best ending for a sex scene. I want to focus on enjoying the sex scene. I also find most minigames with a timed component to be annoying. Those are almost always either WAY too hard or trivially easy. If it's something I'm good at it's easy. If it's something I'm not good at it may well be impossible and it's very likely that my strengths and weaknesses do not match up to the dev's.

As an example for me, Being a DIK has a lot of mini games. A lot of people complained about the fighting mini game but I actually enjoyed that and don't mind playing through it every time. The word matching puzzles and math puzzles and especially the gender studies puzzles annoyed the hell out of me though and I would much rather never do those. So I play that game with a mod that lets you skip the mini games without relinquishing the usual benefits of having played through them successfully.

 

[Synx]

It would highly depend on what type of game it is.

If its a visual novel don't add them really or add a skip button. I can't think of any visual novel with some mini-games that where good, or felt good to play. Its just boring time-sinks 999/1000 times. And it doesnt really fit in a visual novel. It would be like watching a movie, and halfway getting a math problem you got to solve before you can continue the movie.

But if the puzzles are the main part, and the story is there to support it, then yeah puzzles make sense. There will be a lot of people asking for skip buttons as they just want the lewd scenes to be over it, but those aren't the people that will support you anyway. If your puzzles make it into a good and different game, go for it.

 

[polywog]

I don't play casual games and I don't play porn games for the dev's brilliant interpretation of Candy Crush or sudoku. I really don't understand the appeal or the point, besides introducing another aspect of grind to the game to prolong playtime.

Human brains produce a number of chemicals, not just oxytocin. While governments around the world would love to make the chemicals illegal, there is not a lot they can do to stop us addicts from using. Endorphins are nice, some people are satisfied with a little serotonin, or dopamine. Hard-core game abusers, aren't satiated with those pleb level neuropeptide doses, we need the hard stuff... enkephalin, dynorphin, arginine vasopressin, Cholecystokinin, and you only get that from grind. You have to get mad, and happy, and sad, and other stuff all at the same time, to get your brain to produce this shit. You don't get that from a simple fap game, or vn harem, you have to earn it.

 

[polywog]

 

[Stompai]

I think it mostly depend in which way you look at the problem.
- You want to make a puzzle game with 18+ elements.
- You want to make a 18+ game with puzzle elements.
I know it looks the same but it's actually a bit different.

First one you need to focus on your puzzle gameplay, making them interesting (puzzles video games have existed for decades and you can find examples everywhere), and the sex element can be added as rewards for completing the puzzles, or other way.
Second one you need to focus on the sex element and make sure the puzzle doesn't intrude / get in the way of said element. Which mean either making the puzzles simple enough to not blueball the player, or directly include the sex IN the puzzle so that even while solving them the player will get what he came for.

Of course what I said is not an universal answer and there can be many way to look at and solve this issue.
Hope you'll find your answer.

 

[ParadiseLofts]

This info has been very eye-opening. Definitely keeping the skip features, and now have a spark of an idea on how to approach that on repeat plays. Thank you all for your comments!

Polywog mentioned our brain's reward system:

You have to get mad, and happy, and sad, and other stuff all at the same time, to get your brain to produce this shit.

I agree with that, but it's clear people have different opinions on how far to engage in that kinda foreplay with these games, as it were.

There will be a lot of people asking for skip buttons as they just want the lewd scenes to be over it, but those aren't the people that will support you anyway.

I agree with this, too. Also, this particular game is driven by a murder plot and a developing conspiracy, more than sexual conquests. While there will be a path to a big, grand romance eventually - two, actually, supposing I finish this - and there is sex everywhere once you get deep enough in the game, the fact that a sex game isn't focused on sexual conquests may turn off some gamers, I dunno.

 

[ParadiseLofts]

Not everyone is a spritely healthy 20 year old or using a good computer. People have disabilities (hand tremors/slow reaction times/etc), and a lot of people want to play these games on android because it is easier/better for them.

I actually thought of that out the gate, and have tried to include a skip, from the start, for every challenge that requires dexterity or speedy play, etc. I'm literally half blind and half deaf myself. It's frustrating playing games I was once good at that can't be scaled down for my current skill level and limitations.

 

[polywog]

This info has been very eye-opening. Definitely keeping the skip features, and now have a spark of an idea on how to approach that on repeat plays. Thank you all for your comments!

Polywog mentioned our brain's reward system:

I agree with that, but it's clear people have different opinions on how far to engage in that kinda foreplay with these games, as it were.



I agree with this, too. Also, this particular game is driven by a murder plot and a developing conspiracy, more than sexual conquests. While there will be a path to a big, grand romance eventually - two, actually, supposing I finish this - and there is sex everywhere once you get deep enough in the game, the fact that a sex game isn't focused on sexual conquests may turn off some gamers, I dunno.

Are you familiar with the expression "better than sex"? People don't play adult games for the sex, they can get sex anytime. I've said many times that sex should be throughout the game, and NOT as the game reward. Sure you gain respect and admiration from the girls in the village, when you slay the dragon, but you didn't fight just to get laid, did you, Harvey Weinstein? Adult games have sex in them, but first and foremost they wouldn't be games if they weren't a challenge.

I was a test tube baby, genetically created to be a killing machine. Crushing opponents is in my blood, but puny humans are so weak, there's no sport in it for me. I am my only worthy opponent. When I was younger, there were wars, and they would turn me loose to satisfy my bloodlust, but times have changed, now I can only satisfy that craving in video games. Only occasionally do i get to save the planet anymore.

You can have sex during a murder mystery... miss scarlet did it in the conservatory with mr. green while they were searching for clues. You don't find the murderer send them to prison, and then give the sex as a reward in their cell, what kind of game would that be. The girls are scared, there's a maniac on the loose, the need a strong man to protect them. After he goes to prison, they don't reward you, they go back to complaining about patriarchy.

 

[ParadiseLofts]

Are you familiar with the expression "better than sex"? People don't play adult games for the sex, they can get sex anytime. I've said many times that sex should be throughout the game, and NOT as the game reward. Sure you gain respect and admiration from the girls in the village, when you slay the dragon, but you didn't fight just to get laid, did you, Harvey Weinstein? Adult games have sex in them, but first and foremost they wouldn't be games if they weren't a challenge.

I was a test tube baby, genetically created to be a killing machine. Crushing opponents is in my blood, but puny humans are so weak, there's no sport in it for me. I am my only worthy opponent. When I was younger, there were wars, and they would turn me loose to satisfy my bloodlust, but times have changed, now I can only satisfy that craving in video games. Only occasionally do i get to save the planet anymore.

You can have sex during a murder mystery... miss scarlet did it in the conservatory with mr. green while they were searching for clues. You don't find the murderer send them to prison, and then give the sex as a reward in their cell, what kind of game would that be. The girls are scared, there's a maniac on the loose, the need a strong man to protect them. After he goes to prison, they don't reward you, they go back to complaining about patriarchy.

Hah! I love and share this attitude with you. I

 

[Glorified_ignorance]

ParadiseLofts, even though i wrote my opinion already i might add something aswell to the list.

Lately I got my hands on game called, "What the golf". IMO that game was created by genius.

It has everything, you have to go and play it, thats the best refference you can get out there, when it comes to this subject. It has easily approachable difficulty for everyone, at the same time, it offers you to challenge yourself, collecting crowns, while finishing same level on 3 different levels of difficulty. Its full of simplicity, can hook you up right away, can make you sit there and scratch youre head for a moment or two on how to beat the level. Its been a while when i personally myself played something like that and had so much fun. Its full of surprises and parodies of other logic/puzzle games ^^

 

[ParadiseLofts]

ParadiseLofts, even though i wrote my opinion already i might add something aswell to the list.

Lately I got my hands on game called, "What the golf". IMO that game was created by genius.

It has everything, you have to go and play it, thats the best refference you can get out there, when it comes to this subject. It has easily approachable difficulty for everyone, at the same time, it offers you to challenge yourself, collecting crowns, while finishing same level on 3 different levels of difficulty. Its full of simplicity, can hook you up right away, can make you sit there and scratch youre head for a moment or two on how to beat the level. Its been a while when i personally myself played something like that and had so much fun. Its full of surprises and parodies of other logic/puzzle games ^^

Thanks for the info! I'll definitely check it out. I'm a big fan, of simple, yet fun and/or addicting.

 

[SeventhVixen]

I'm a fan of classic graphic adventures (and the ones that respect the classic approach), so as a player I hate when the puzzles are just stupid, and balance is quite hard to achieve (Use the rubber duck with the wire attached to get the key from the subway rails).

What I personally do in my game is just make various ways to solve every problem; There are more optimal solutions, but no player will get stuck, just get a lower reward, or a different cutscene. He just can get better in the next playthru finding a way to get better results with the accumulated learning about how to solve the "puzzles".

When your puzzles are literally puzzles (like classic "make the wires of a panel control work", there are different approach, like difficulty selection level, autosolving after x moves (where you consider that the player may get stuck), or just "points". You solve the puzzle in 20 moves? 10 points. You do in 40 moves? 20 points. Puzzle got to limit and autosolve? 0 points. The game progress, but player don't get stuck, and can get a sense of accomplishment if is good at the puzzle.