How hard is it to create clothes for Daz3d games?

[as22]

When playing VN's that use Daz3d models, I always come across the same clothes in multiple games.
For example these jeans here:


Given the fact that many games, even the most popular use the same clothes constantly, I'm guessing it must be very hard to create clothes or something?

Can someone explain the situation to someone who's not a developer and knows nothing about daz3d or renpy game development? I understand they come from asset packs? Pirated?
And there are some stores that sell them or something? But I don't know how they're made

Is it "that" hard to make clothes that there's so little variation of common clothing like leggings, jeans, shorts, etc etc?

 

[Winterfire]

Daz3D assets are bought from artists, and those artists make the clothes in blender or other such software.
A game developer won't usually bother with making his own models unless he has to (Something very specific to his game that simply doesn't exist - not the case for a pair of jeans). Also, it's safe to assume the average game developer won't be as skilled as an artist that sells assets, meaning that even if he took his time to models his own jeans, they'd probably suck.

In general, a game developer has already a lot in his plate, and adding a complex task such as modelling would only slow him down even further, it's not viable, surely not for a pair of jeans. I am honestly surprised you can even tell a pair of jeans used in a game from another, they're just... Jeans.

Of course I am not saying no one does that, a few devs like The Devian do like to model some of their own custom stuff, but I doubt even he would bother with modelling every single asset in his game. It's simply too much for a solo dev or even a tiny team.
Retexturing would be much easier, and would aid with variety. However, I'd personally bother with it only to add variety within my game, not in comparison to other games. You really need to play an unhealthy amount of games to be able to tell a pair of jeans has already been used in other games, the average person/dev won't do that.

 

[as22]

I am honestly surprised you can even tell a pair of jeans used in a game from another, they're just... Jeans.

I do play a lot, but it's the lack of variation for basic clothes like shorts jackets jeans tops etc that drive me insane.
I don't know how you, as a developer can stand seeing the same items and knowing your using an asset that's already been used to death in other games. It just feels "low quality" when I see them.

If you can't recognise specific assets instantly when you see them, then I don't know what to tell you.

On the other hand, items like lingerie and underwear are super varied. A good example is Being a dik, the ep11 underwear party has nearly every single female character in a different set of lingerie. Which just goes to show how much variation there is for underwear, and the lack of it for basic clothes.

 

[Winterfire]

I do play a lot, but it's the lack of variation for basic clothes like shorts jackets jeans tops etc that drive me insane.
I don't know how you, as a developer can stand seeing the same items and knowing your using an asset that's already been used to death in other games. It just feels "low quality" when I see them.

If you can't recognise specific assets instantly when you see them, then I don't know what to tell you.

On the other hand, items like lingerie and underwear are super varied. A good example is Being a dik, the ep11 underwear party has nearly every single female character in a different set of lingerie. Which just goes to show how much variation there is for underwear, and the lack of it for basic clothes.

Most developers don't have the time to play other people's games, if not a handful. You could probably spot a re-used location with ease, but if you can spot a pair of jeans assets, I think you're just very perceptive.

-Edit-
I also agree that Being a Dik is easily one of the best games ever made, but you cannot expect the average dev to top that level of quality.

 

[Eezergoode]

If you are willing to spend the money for the software and/or the time to learn, it's not THAT hard, but it's not as simple as clicking a button that says "generate me a new pair of jeans" or "I need a dark blue off-the-shoulder dress" like a lot of people seems to think. In all honesty, it's on par with real life clothing design. What IS hard is designing clothing that actually looks good. I can make clothes for Daz models, but I have yet to make one that I would be happy with putting in the public eye.

 

[as22]

If you are willing to spend the money for the software and/or the time to learn, it's not THAT hard, but it's not as simple as clicking a button that says "generate me a new pair of jeans" or "I need a dark blue off-the-shoulder dress" like a lot of people seems to think. In all honesty, it's on par with real life clothing design. What IS hard is designing clothing that actually looks good. I can make clothes for Daz models, but I have yet to make one that I would be happy with putting in the public eye.

Can you tell me what I need to get started? I have a 5080 and a high end CPU, so I'm not sure if that's enough or not, but I would like to try it.
For example the pair of jeans in the OP pic, would you know what software was used to create that?

 

[commonkira]

Can you tell me what I need to get started? I have a 5080 and a high end CPU, so I'm not sure if that's enough or not, but I would like to try it.
For example the pair of jeans in the OP pic, would you know what software was used to create that?

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[MissFortune]

For example the pair of jeans in the OP pic, would you know what software was used to create that?

Likely some mix of CLO/Marvelous Designer, Substance Painter/Designer, and possibly Blender. From there, you bring it in to Daz and then I believe there's some rigging involved (which isn't super difficult for this). If you plan on selling it on the Daz Store as a PA, there's some code you need to learn. There's a somewhat older tutorial that goes through the process for assets on the Daz Store, provided you actually get that far.

 

[as22]

Likely some mix of CLO/Marvelous Designer, Substance Painter/Designer, and possibly Blender. From there, you bring it in to Daz and then I believe there's some rigging involved (which isn't super difficult for this). If you plan on selling it on the Daz Store as a PA, there's some code you need to learn. There's a somewhat older tutorial that goes through the process for assets on the Daz Store, provided you actually get that far.

What would you say is a good simple asset to make as a test? Socks?

 

[MissFortune]

What would you say is a good simple asset to make as a test? Socks?

Socks might be trickier than starting with a simple shirt, especially in something like Marvelous. The actual stitching part is actually pretty easy in MD once you get a grasp on the UI. Watch a few tutorials like the one above from commonkira and see if that's something you're into doing. You can also hop over to ArtStation and see the clothes there, too. If nothing else, finding a free clothing asset and importing/opening it in MD and seeing how it's done someone fairly knowledgeable is good for reference.

 

[Eezergoode]

I started with making shirts and simple dresses in Marvelous Designer, I never got much beyond that for a couple reasons, one, the friend that had the software moved away so I don't have access to a legit copy anymore, and two, I'm working so many hours right now it isn't worth getting a copy for myself since I wouldn't have time to really dig into it anyway.

 

[osanaiko]

Speaking of clothes you see used again and again.... I present this one for consideration, originally found in the Victoria 7 pro Bundle. I've seen it in at least a half-dozen games...



Followed by this one "G8 Boho shorts"

 

[commonkira]

Speaking of clothes you see used again and again.... I present this one for consideration, originally found in the Victoria 7 pro Bundle. I've seen it in at least a half-dozen games...

Speaking of which, I'm not sure if it's just the version of Daz that I use (4.23), but I've yet to encounter issues adding clothes from G9 to G8 and G3, as well as viceversa. The automatic (Or manual) transfer utility popup when you assign clothes has always worked after I switched to 4.23 this year (Or it might also have to do with me becoming more knowledgeable with Daz through the year).

This does not apply to hair styles, however. It took many hours just to get one G8 to look OK on a G9... But, progress is progress.

 

[AllNatural939]

I do play a lot, but it's the lack of variation for basic clothes like shorts jackets jeans tops etc that drive me insane.
I don't know how you, as a developer can stand seeing the same items and knowing your using an asset that's already been used to death in other games. It just feels "low quality" when I see them.

If you can't recognise specific assets instantly when you see them, then I don't know what to tell you.

On the other hand, items like lingerie and underwear are super varied. A good example is Being a dik, the ep11 underwear party has nearly every single female character in a different set of lingerie. Which just goes to show how much variation there is for underwear, and the lack of it for basic clothes.

Do you have any idea what it means for one single person to make a simple AVN in something like RenPy?... First, you gotta learn how to use DAZ and/or Blender, if you didn’t already know. Then obviously learn how to use RenPy. Create thousands of images (no, I'm not exaggerating) and then render all of them. Learn how to post-process those images too, 'cause they usually come out pretty lifeless from DAZ and you gotta add some extra punch. You’ll need to convert images to video if you’ve got animations. Gotta learn some video editing too. A game isn’t just pictures, there's also writing involved, and hopefully something half decent...
Then you gotta run your Discord, your Patreon and/or Subscribestar page, your Itch page, your Oppaiman page, and maybe a few other sites too... You also have to promote yourself.
All that, and more, for like 200 bucks a month if you’re doing better than average, 'cause many don’t even hit 100 monthly after over a year of work.
No dev in their right mind is gonna waste time on some random pair of jeans.

 

[as22]

Do you have any idea what it means for one single person to make a simple AVN in something like RenPy?... First, you gotta learn how to use DAZ and/or Blender, if you didn’t already know. Then obviously learn how to use RenPy. Create thousands of images (no, I'm not exaggerating) and then render all of them. Learn how to post-process those images too, 'cause they usually come out pretty lifeless from DAZ and you gotta add some extra punch. You’ll need to convert images to video if you’ve got animations. Gotta learn some video editing too. A game isn’t just pictures, there's also writing involved, and hopefully something half decent...
Then you gotta run your Discord, your Patreon and/or Subscribestar page, your Itch page, your Oppaiman page, and maybe a few other sites too... You also have to promote yourself.
All that, and more, for like 200 bucks a month if you’re doing better than average, 'cause many don’t even hit 100 monthly after over a year of work.
No dev in their right mind is gonna waste time on some random pair of jeans.

Your entire post is a massive non sequitur and irrelevant to the conversation.
I didn't ask any of this. I asked "How hard is it to create clothes for Daz3d games"

 

[AllNatural939]

Your entire post is a massive non sequitur and irrelevant to the conversation.
I didn't ask any of this. I asked "How hard is it to create clothes for Daz3d games"

I couldn't care less if you think it's irrelevant, 'cause it came from your own words. Don’t want irrelevant stuff? Then stop changing the subject yourself. If you don’t even know what you said that triggered my reply, here it is again... whether you think it’s irrelevant or not.

I do play a lot, but it's the lack of variation for basic clothes like shorts jackets jeans tops etc that drive me insane.
I don't know how you, as a developer can stand seeing the same items and knowing your using an asset that's already been used to death in other games. It just feels "low quality" when I see them.

In case you still don’t get it... if you hadn’t replied, I wouldn’t have said anything else. This is a public forum and people interact, whether you think it's relevant or not.

 

[drapak12]

Your entire post is a massive non sequitur and irrelevant to the conversation.
I didn't ask any of this. I asked "How hard is it to create clothes for Daz3d games"

It is very easy or very hard. Daz can be powerfull software if you use all included plugins. You must remember as well that it has some limitations (as other software - 3d envi. is not real world).
Clothes as gown or kimono are very easy.
Here and here you can see simple shapes which I made with wings3d and subdivided to required lvl. Most problem was UV map, but still it was less then hour. If you create few material zones and set different dforce properties you can obtain nice efect of lose clothes, but remember - they work better as a props not figures.
If you need sth more advanced you need good textures what is more difficult.

And... refering to your first samples - I do ot know jeans asset which you shown. Anyway there is plenty of jeans pants and only few cooperate with G8 or G9 poses. YOu can see in many games or comics weird draping in crotch and knees area. Most cerators do not care. Create bimbo female, conform random clothes on gigantic breasts and noone see it.

 

[Turning Tricks]

99% of our target audience don't really give a shit about the uniqueness of clothing assets, other than wanting them to look decent on the models. Underwear and lingerie is an exception to this as it adds a lot to a scene and that is why there's so much more of those assets for sale. Honestly, I find the lack of more "common" items a pain when I am building a new set. Like you mentioned, there's hundreds of various bikini thongs out there, but try and find a simple common household item that you need to make your set look more real and you soon learn that PA's that do stuff like that are few and far between, because there's little money in it. That's why I kit-bash like crazy when I find good asset packs with items like that. (kit-bashing is using an existing asset(s) and mixing them together or modifying them with your own textures, geometry, etc, to make them unique)

The other 1% of our target audience obsess about these minor details and then trash you in complaints and bad reviews. Like the fact checkers that will call you out for a photo way in the background of a single render - saying it was an event that didn't happen until xxxx and not yyyy that you have in your fictional story, lol.

As for the PA's who make these assets - They are usually both artists and 3D modellers. It's not easy and personally, the only truly custom stuff I make is simple models, like towels with a dForce modifier applied, or paintings and posters, since they are easy to make from scratch and add photos too. I would love to learn how to make Daz characters from scratch, using tools like Z-Brush, but I can either take the time to learn that, or work on my current projects and keep my subscribers happy to - well, make money - lol. It's a vicious cycle and AllNatural939 was not wrong in what they said. I hate to defend him but you did open the door to his reply when you said this...

...
I don't know how you, as a developer can stand seeing the same items and knowing your using an asset that's already been used to death in other games. It just feels "low quality" when I see them.

If you can't recognise specific assets instantly when you see them, then I don't know what to tell you.

...

And really, you're asking the wrong crowd here. We're indie Devs, not PA's. (Although I am sure some PA's have accounts on here) Why don't you contact some of them directly and ask them what their work process is? Many of them have email contacts for support, when you look at their profiles in the stores they sell on.

 

[jamdan]

Your entire post is a massive non sequitur and irrelevant to the conversation.
I didn't ask any of this. I asked "How hard is it to create clothes for Daz3d games"

It depends on the clothes. Things like T-shirts or bikinis or socks are simple, things like layered dresses are more complex. You'll need a program like Marvelous Designer + Substance Painter to create and texture them. You can pretty easily find clothing patterns online, and duplicate/copy/trace them into Marvelous Designer. That's probably the simplest way to make unique clothing from scratch. Another way is to use pre-made Daz clothing and simply retexture it.

I would recommend watching ChrisCox streams on Twitch/Youtube. He's a Daz vender who makes clothes step by step in those aforementioned programs and Daz.

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[TDoddery]

Well for my part, I don't create new stuff but I also very rarely use an asset "as is".
That's partly because I want to minimize the risk of anyone spotting that I pirated it, but also it's because I don't want someone like the OP thinking it's just yet another iteration of "seen before". So yeah I get that.
I usually change texture etc. settings and colors. I edit opacity maps and quite often also "mesh grab" clothing and save the result. It ends up looking totally different and, if I got it right, more like I would have wanted in the first place.
These steps are not too difficult and actually they're usually fun as well.