- Jun 10, 2017
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More than 80% of game authors never wrote a single line of code before starting their game...
How Much Do You Make Per Year?
- Thread starter DaClown
- Start date
I learned Turbo Pascal and made some terrible DOS games in Highschool...
I feel a little cheated that I never learned a real language, but I out rank many of my peers at this point.
- May 30, 2017
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You didn't quite understand my sarcasm. Look at the poll, the guy who did it screwed up and there is a gap between 40-70K$ and 80-100K$...
- May 6, 2020
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Not gonna say how much I currently make per month, but it's definitely a secondary income. I'm unsure how many people get in the field of porn games with the idea of making this their primary income from the get go (I mean, unless you already have a lot of starting capital available).
- May 28, 2017
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Bit of an odd poll this, but fine, I will bite. I make over $100k/y from non-adult game sources, and about $0 from adult games. During Covid it's a lot less than usual though. Does give me more time to make $0 from having fun putting together an adult game. Not sure what this data does for you, but have fun.
- Sep 12, 2020
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Japan has a population of around 125 million people representing 1.8% of the world population. I'd be interested to see what the percentage of world game developers the Japanese game developers represent.
China restricts production of pornography, sale of pornography, distribution and transmission of pornography, and possession of pornography. Up until a few years ago, China outlawed fiction, and they only started doing trials in some regions--Shanghai I believe is the major one--for the production of science fiction specifically; they didn't lift the blanket ban on fiction just allowed specific types they identified as crucial for technological and social innovation.
I doubt that there are many Chinese porn game devs at this time.
There is Cursed Armor 1&2, Siluman and a bunch of others. They aren't allowed to exist, but they still bleed up from the infinite mass.
- Jun 10, 2017
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Please, don't tell me that despite trying to give lessons regarding the adult gaming scene, you don't know that the Japanese market have
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(that, with time, also included part of the Chinese production) ?Are you aware with the concept of immigration ? You can have a legal permanent stay on a country while not being a citizen of this country. Most of Chinese adult game developers aren't effectively located in China, while the others are located in Hong Kong.
It's not because, like most Japanese authors, few effectively care to release their product outside of their community, and so don't release their games in English, that they don't exist and aren't a substantial part of the scene.
I think a more useful poll would be to state the income from adult game development as a percentage of the country of origin's median wage.
If a person would make $500 / month but median wage in his country would be $300 he'd be happy because after expenses he still has a decent income and doesn't really need a day job.
If another person would make the same $500 / month in a $3000 / month median wage country, it'd be a nice-ish secondary income, unless that person would make something like $6000 / month salary from his primary job. In that case, the $500/month would be more or less irrelevant.
If a person would make $500 / month but median wage in his country would be $300 he'd be happy because after expenses he still has a decent income and doesn't really need a day job.
If another person would make the same $500 / month in a $3000 / month median wage country, it'd be a nice-ish secondary income, unless that person would make something like $6000 / month salary from his primary job. In that case, the $500/month would be more or less irrelevant.
The mad crusade continues. I'd hoped to avoid future interactions on DaClown's threads - but the guy just has this way of sucking you in (and not in the good way )I'll start by saying that Methodology is important where it comes to stats and polls. The rule of thumb is 'garbage in, garbage out' - and this badly flawed poll can only produce garbage. Worse still, this garbage is explicitly designed to support a pre-existing hypothesis - to the ends of whatever agenda DaClown is pursuing.
1. As EpicLust points out, the $70-80k band is missed out. Given the small sample size, this invalidates any conclusion drawn from the poll.
2. As anne O'nymous points out, the lack of negative values is absent. Given this may be a high proportion of the total, this invalidates any conclusion drawn from the poll.
3. Combining all sources of income is mad - as M$hot shows here. We have no idea what the proportions involved are to put any of this into context, and it is likely that many will misunderstand and only add their dev income.
4. As many have pointed out, you've failed to split the $10k band up despite already knowing this is the biggest segment of the market. This is done deliberately to provide a graphic that DaClown can misuse for his own ends (the poverty wages hypothesis).
5. The question is sloppily worded - the clarification post does a decent job of explaining what DaClown actually means, but the words Gross Income needed to appear in the headline question to avoid false reports of profits, net-income, post-tax, etc. Small sample surveys need to take great care in this regard.
NB: Again, DaClown ignores the repeatedly made points that: many devs are unemployed, students, etc; that most devs are not from the USA; that many devs are just doing this as a hobby; and that making these games provide almost no transferrable skills suitable for the IT industry.
This would be a much better way of doing this. I earn around 150% the UK median wage for my game, but only 115% the US median wage - and that's comparing two first world countries!
It would still have problems, though. 'Business' Income from making a game is not the same as Salary income - different expenses, different taxes, decuctions, etc. It's also far more variable on a month-by-month basis (until Covid, anyway
), and the response comes from a shorter data-set (most devs have only been working for a couple of years or less).
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Another problem with this methodology is that it doesn't consider why a person wants to make games and how that fit's in his micro-level finances.
Maybe a person is more happy doing what he likes on minimum wage (whatever that is) than earning big money at some bank.
Or he is very happy working at said bank and his game development is limited to two evenings per week and Saturday morning, if he feels like it at that time.
And then there are people who are actually successful and can make what can be considered a decent income from it.
But in any case you need to factor in taxes, insurance and social security, which makes comparisons between countries extremely complicated. And even within countries you have people who have no problems working for variable wages e.g. as taxi drivers vs. persons who want to work for a fixed salary at a rock solid company.
So, would you want to become a taxi driver when you could also work as investment banker? The not-so-obvious answer is, maybe, if you like driving cars...
For some people, making games is something like a dream. Others, just want to try their hand at it and see how far they can come.
Maybe a person is more happy doing what he likes on minimum wage (whatever that is) than earning big money at some bank.
Or he is very happy working at said bank and his game development is limited to two evenings per week and Saturday morning, if he feels like it at that time.
And then there are people who are actually successful and can make what can be considered a decent income from it.
But in any case you need to factor in taxes, insurance and social security, which makes comparisons between countries extremely complicated. And even within countries you have people who have no problems working for variable wages e.g. as taxi drivers vs. persons who want to work for a fixed salary at a rock solid company.
So, would you want to become a taxi driver when you could also work as investment banker? The not-so-obvious answer is, maybe, if you like driving cars...
For some people, making games is something like a dream. Others, just want to try their hand at it and see how far they can come.
You also have to factor in the spread between patreon/steam/paypal fees and PAYE schemes for salaried workers (not to mention currency exchange differentials!). Then there's the gulf between devs who purchase their assets and those who pirate them, and those who use stock assets rather than modded/created ones.
This is all before we get into hours worked. I spend around 70 hours a week on my game - meaning I earn a fair bit less per hour that I did in my old job. The only reason that I would do this is because I absolutely love doing it!
I suspect a lot of the bias in DaClown's thinking comes from someone who enjoys the comforts, security and benefits of salaried work failing to understand the reasons behind self-employment (freedom, self-sufficiency, creative-control, etc.) - or that some people just have time-intensive hobbies
- Jun 10, 2017
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Or, what seem to be more frequent nowadays, they have a story they want to tell and, after some times as part of the community, decide to give it a go. They saw all those people here, liking this or that game, and thought that they could also like their own story.
Yeah, he seem to only approach game making from the business angle. Yet he fail to understand that even from this angle things aren't definitive and that there isn't one living model that apply to everyone.I suspect a lot of the bias in DaClown's thinking comes from someone who enjoys the comforts, security and benefits of salaried work failing to understand the reasons behind self-employment (freedom, self-sufficiency, creative-control, etc.) - or that some people just have time-intensive hobbies
I can take my case as example. I'm 49yo, widow, my children are now near to be totally established, and I've finished to pay all the loans I could have made. I need way less money to have a decent life, than someone in his twenties that is starting his life, or someone in his thirty that have to support his children.
I also live in a big enough city, in a country where public transportation are well handled, and like it's a Western country, all the services are near and almost everything can be delivered at home. Therefore, the need for a car is less important than for someone living in a small town or in a country with (almost) no public transportation ; which lower my living costs.
I haven't really thought about it, but globally speaking I could have a decent life with just the minimal wages (don't repeat it to my boss please
), while there's obviously people that would never make it through the end of the month with just that.Not everyone dream to be rich, and not every culture think that being it is a proof of success.
Honestly, what would I do with a 10 rooms, 3 bathrooms, house, except spending a lot of time/money to keep it clean ? What would I looks like in a sport car, except the pervert I am ? Oh, and I don't like golf, too much time past doing nothing for my taste.
I find the low end of the spectrum more interesting than the upper end so to me that $10k or less bracket is the only one that really has much interesting info. I suspect the vast majority of devs fall into that bracket if you're only considering the income they get from game dev. If you lump it in with whatever they make at their day job then the whole thing is pretty meaningless because then the guy who makes $50k per year as an accountant and makes $10 per month from his game looks like he's got the same success with his project as the guy who makes $50k per year from his game and doesn't have any other source of income.
You also have aspiring devs who have a good job and aren't earning anything at their project yet. If you include the income from their day job then someone like me with a six figure day job looks successful even though their game projects are earning zero (I didn't take the poll so I'm not skewing the results). Edit: Actually I did take it just now so I could see the results.
You also have aspiring devs who have a good job and aren't earning anything at their project yet. If you include the income from their day job then someone like me with a six figure day job looks successful even though their game projects are earning zero (
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- Sep 12, 2020
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