Daz How to move cloth parts

[coffeeaddicted]

This is a question i am asking myself right now.
I checked in the parameters but there seems to be no option. Since i seen it in games, there surely a way.
The question is only how.
Do you need a tool for that or specific clothing? I want to move a bra (naughty) and other clothing parts to create the illusion of groping (very naughty).
Anyway, maybe i was missing something.
Thanks

 

[fyl3toys]

I've havent done anything like that yet, but I was always under the impression that Dforce clothing is required for manipulation. Hopefully someone with experience comes along to help because I'd like to know too

 

[coffeeaddicted]

It is possible. Dforce has parameters but it may depend on the cloth itself or the creator. I had a dress and i was able to move the straps but not the bra. So i am to look for some dforce versions.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I've havent done anything like that yet, but I was always under the impression that Dforce clothing is required for manipulation.

Yes and no.
I'm far to be an expert, still a lot to learn and not enough time for this, but the basis is that DForce permit to adjust the clothing to all situation ; provided that you put the handles in the right places. This while none DForce clothes rely exclusively on morphs ; what obviously limit drastically what you can do with them.

There's two possibilities to bypass the morphs limitations.
The first one is to use mesh grabber, and then move the clothe at vertex level. It's long, fastidious, but can give good result if you don't become crazy before you finally learn how to do it correctly and quickly enough.
The other is to copy the morph from another clothes. I totally forgot how to do this (if someone is kind enough to explain it again here...), the two clothes need to be close enough for best results, and obvious the result can be horrible. But well, it's the second method...

 

[coffeeaddicted]

Yes and no.
I'm far to be an expert, still a lot to learn and not enough time for this, but the basis is that DForce permit to adjust the clothing to all situation ; provided that you put the handles in the right places. This while none DForce clothes rely exclusively on morphs ; what obviously limit drastically what you can do with them.

There's two possibilities to bypass the morphs limitations.
The first one is to use mesh grabber, and then move the clothe at vertex level. It's long, fastidious, but can give good result if you don't become crazy before you finally learn how to do it correctly and quickly enough.
The other is to copy the morph from another clothes. I totally forgot how to do this (if someone is kind enough to explain it again here...), the two clothes need to be close enough for best results, and obvious the result can be horrible. But well, it's the second method...

Mm.. yes, that sounds like a hobby for latter days.

Haha... i will try it though. Its a nice touch to lift a part of the clothing. Regular clothing, not so much. At least what i tried.
Mesh Grabber? Mm.. have to check but i thought there has to be some tool for that.
I will get more dforce clothing as it seems easier but i will miss some clothing that seems rather nice. Besides, i read somewhere that you can convert clothing to dforce. Its probably as tedious as the other way.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Mesh Grabber? Mm.. have to check but i thought there has to be some tool for that.

It's available somewhere here, for test purpose only obviously . US$ 45 is a sum when you're not sure that you'll be able to use it.

I will get more dforce clothing as it seems easier but i will miss some clothing that seems rather nice.

It's easier, after you learned how to use DForce correctly.
Still basically, DForce rely on a weight map describing how the clothe should react, and handles that serve as obstacle stopping the clothe ; the body being the default handle. To move a bra strap, by example, you "just" (relatively speaking) need to put a handle where you want the strap to be, and link it to the bra. still totally basically speaking ; difficult to explain something that myself isn't sure to have fully understood.

Besides, i read somewhere that you can convert clothing to dforce. Its probably as tedious as the other way.

It's not too difficult ; at least it shouldn't, I haven't tried with Daz Studio, so can't say how it works with their view on the subject.
I believe that it works the same than for bones weight paint, so you select a target (for bones, the left upper arm by example), then you either left the mesh uncolored (do not at all depend on this target), or give it a color that goes from red to green, that will represent how much this part of the mesh depend on the target.
It feel more difficult that it effectively is. After few trial and error tries, it become relatively easy. The longest part is to adjust correctly the weight. You probably need to have a bunch of preset poses to ensure that everything works correctly in extreme condition ; therefore it should also works great in regular condition.

 

[TDoddery]

Mesh grabber is very versatile and with a little practice can accomplish great results.

However, you will often have to disable smoothing for the clothing and sometimes unparent/fit to the character, otherwise the clothing tries to jump back into it's "correct" place.

For example, to get a woman's panties pulled tight down around her knees (yeah I know), things like morphs will struggle because the relevant parts of the mesh are anchored in relation to hips, not knees.

Dforce would also be a challenge because you'd also have to unfit the panties and then they would probably just fall all the way down - lol

 

[coffeeaddicted]

It's available somewhere here, for test purpose only obviously . US$ 45 is a sum when you're not sure that you'll be able to use it.

I imagine someone really really professional buying all these assets. I wonder how much that would be. I will take the trial.

It's easier, after you learned how to use DForce correctly.
Still basically, DForce rely on a weight map describing how the clothe should react, and handles that serve as obstacle stopping the clothe ; the body being the default handle. To move a bra strap, by example, you "just" (relatively speaking) need to put a handle where you want the strap to be, and link it to the bra. still totally basically speaking ; difficult to explain something that myself isn't sure to have fully understood.

I am not sure if all have all sliders but some do. I really have to experiment a little to get a grip on it. More importantly, to learn what the mechanics are. If you don't know how it works, you never find a way to make it work.

It's not too difficult ; at least it shouldn't, I haven't tried with Daz Studio, so can't say how it works with their view on the subject.
I believe that it works the same than for bones weight paint, so you select a target (for bones, the left upper arm by example), then you either left the mesh uncolored (do not at all depend on this target), or give it a color that goes from red to green, that will represent how much this part of the mesh depend on the target.
It feel more difficult that it effectively is. After few trial and error tries, it become relatively easy. The longest part is to adjust correctly the weight. You probably need to have a bunch of preset poses to ensure that everything works correctly in extreme condition ; therefore it should also works great in regular condition.

I have to download "that" tool to see. It sounds simple but i have the feeling you have to master it.

 

[drapak12]

You can use d-former as well. It is free.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

You can use d-former as well. It is free.

I think this issue drive me really nuts. You more busy moving cloths than doing poses. At least i am. Now, i just fix them for the view and the rest i don't care.
Got to check that "tool" as well. Thanks.

 

[drapak12]

Parent d-former elements to chest or pectoral. They would be easy to select and manipulate.

or...

remove bra before groping works not only in Daz

 

[rayminator]

you can use Mesh Grabber as it been stated above or Marvelous Designer 9 Enterprise

 

[Nicke]

Another possibility is that some of those undress images you've seen are simply morphs that come with the clothing. Far from all underwear etc have them, but they do exist.

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[anne O'nymous]

you can use Mesh Grabber as it been stated above or Marvelous Designer 9 Enterprise

Starting with Mesh Grabber is probably better (reason why I only named it). Not that Marvelous Designer is bad, it's the opposite, but it's a whole external tool fully designed to this. A bit like a Mustang (Mesh Grabber) compared to a Formula 1 (Marvelous designer). Despite all the included tools, if you can't deal with the first, you'll have a hell dealing with the second.

And yeah, I forgot about D-Form. Never really tried to use it since Mesh Grabber offer a better granularity.

 

[rayminator]

Starting with Mesh Grabber is probably better (reason why I only named it). Not that Marvelous Designer is bad, it's the opposite, but it's a whole external tool fully designed to this. A bit like a Mustang (Mesh Grabber) compared to a Formula 1 (Marvelous designer). Despite all the included tools, if you can't deal with the first, you'll have a hell dealing with the second.

And yeah, I forgot about D-Form. Never really tried to use it since Mesh Grabber offer a better granularity.

Marvelous Designer is a major learning curve and it's more for professionals but once she starts to learn how to use it better and once she made the changes the cloths she can add a slider for it and she won't have to redo it is wants to do with other chacters

with Mesh Grabber I don't know if she can make a slider like you can do with Marvelous Designer

 

[anne O'nymous]

with Mesh Grabber I don't know if she can make a slider like you can do with Marvelous Designer

No, it's not possible.

But my point was more regarding the learning curve. Starting with Mesh Grabber give a preview of what Marvelous Designer can do, without having to quit the know interface of Daz Studio. What make it less intimidating. Then once you discover that it's not as difficult as it seem at first, and just need some habit, you switch more easily to Marvelous Designer. First you learn how to walk, then only you see how fast you can run.
Plus, knowing Mesh Grabber permit to fix clipping issue and small details like that. So it isn't wasted time.

 

[rayminator]

No, it's not possible.

But my point was more regarding the learning curve. Starting with Mesh Grabber give a preview of what Marvelous Designer can do, without having to quit the know interface of Daz Studio. What make it less intimidating. Then once you discover that it's not as difficult as it seem at first, and just need some habit, you switch more easily to Marvelous Designer. First you learn how to walk, then only you see how fast you can run.
Plus, knowing Mesh Grabber permit to fix clipping issue and small details like that. So it isn't wasted time.

if you can show me how to save it in a slider for Mesh Grabber so I don't have to use Marvelous Designer step by step I do have a learning disorder it takes me years for me to learn cause no body knows how I learn. I learn by watching other people do things. I have been trying to save the setting from mesh grabber for months and haven't figure it out yet

 

[anne O'nymous]

if you can show me how to save it in a slider for Mesh Grabber [...]

It's late, you should go to sleep This being really said nicely and without bad intent.

I would love to show you, but as I said, you can not do that. Or I missed something, but I don't think so.
I haven't tried this yet, but you can surely save the modified clothes as preset. It will save some times with other figures, but I doubt that it will really give good result.

The clothes itself will adapt to the model, but the changes you made with mesh grabber should stay the same.
Let's say that, to make the bra strap be at the edge of the shoulder, you moved it from 10 unit X and 5 unit Y. It's the exact same move that will be applied. So, if the girl have wider shoulder, the strap will be in the middle of it, instead of the edge.
This while morphs respond to the figure. The morph say "move this part to the edge of the shoulder", therefore Daz will move it there, whatever "edge of the shoulder" can mean for the current figure.

It's why Marvelous Designer is effectively the better solution if you want the change to apply on more than one figure ; because it permit to create morphs.
But starting with Mesh Grabber permit to approach clothes design (because it's what it is) more softly, one step after the other. At first make changes that apply for few renders, do it for few weeks/months, and when you'll feel ready, jumps into the deep end with Marvelous Designer.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

I will try Meshgrabber. The more simple, the better. All i want is to make the cloths fit for the situation. There are some poses where it collides. Crossed legs for example. Then i thought, ok, i make a large guy. That did not work out the way i wanted with the cloth i chose.
So let me play with that for a while and see what happens. Thanks already for all the suggestions.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

There is another thing.

Has someone actually managed to move a gown (or any other clothing) up the ass?
So this scene has her sitting on the toilet and to make it more believable the clothing should move upwards somehow.
I tried a couple of assets but mostly it isn't working. Now, what i haven't done yet but will try is to simulate the upward movement of the clothing. Perhaps it will fall down onto the toilet.
I really would love to have that as an image.

And, ashes on my head, i haven't even tried the mesh grabber yet.