How to write bad , unsuccessful games . Feel free not to read this

[lancelotdulak]

I love most of the creators especially on this site. There are a handfull who have a lot of talent.. and a few who have extreme talent in one area or the other. And we all appreciate the effort you put out. But sometimes you try to do something and.. without outside input.. you continue to butt your head into a wall. Making mistakes you dont see. (I did it in business.. a lot). So this is intended to help you make Successful, popular, profitable games. If you just do it for you and dont care? This isnt for you. If you write pure VN's that arent games.. this isnt for you.
(please note this is mostly opinion but also based on career experience in programming and running an adult business based on cs). And again.. this is NOT intended to disuade you but to help you. There are Brilliant creators here who just dont see the huge flaws their games have.. whether they need an editor, a cg artist, a game designer... they start something brilliant and fail utterly because they cant see where their blind spots are.

First lets break down adult game design to its basics.
1. Game design/mechanics
2. Writing/plot
3. Art
4. Psychology
5. Dedication

1.
A. Your game needs to be logical.
Big brothere, DMD, bad bobby, lewd island etc.. every very successful adult game out there is logical . ALL of them. There are some who became successful for great game design at the start. Then you have some games that could be Incredibly successful who took/are taking a nosedive into horrible abandoned game... "Loser" "Room for Rent" are two of these. These games imho will fail Completely based on horrific game design. Theyre illogical, the mechanics seem intentionally unclear and as if the devs either dont understand logic or see the players as opponents. Your players arent your opponents.. theyre your readers.
b: unless youre putting out a short game/vn/comic.. it cant be Too simple. Players/readers need obstacles to overcome. Thats one reason "taboo/corruption games are popular. Players have a goal (their sexual target/s).. they have a built in obstacle to overcome. This is writing and game design 101. If player performs the right actions and then.. sex object instantly turns into a whore begging him to shove his arm up their ass.. that is mindnumbingly boring. If you start off your game and the MC is irresistable to all females and every female he runs into drops to her knees.. Theres no gameplay there. Once they grind through the 100 renders you made in 12 minutes theyre never coming back and certainly not visiting patreon. i can think of three games on this site right now with incredible renders, good programming going Nowhere because of this.
c: Do not take your personal issues out on your readers. The most GLARING example of this actually pissed me off.. and ive seen several. Devs with serious problems who advertised a game as one thing then forced the mc into other things. One example was a moderatley typical game... guy after beautiful women from 18 to 30something. Has to overcome obstacles. Then he meets a 58 yo massively overweight black woman with serious skin problems and is forced to have sex over and over with her nasty ass. Dont. Do. That... you jsut wasted 1000s of hours

2. Good writing/plot is the heart of almost every good adult game here (this isnt universal). Jessies sins started out brilliant (i think its gone astray). DMD, Lewd island etc ahve excellent writing. Corruption had incredible writing and game design. There are a lot of examples on this site where devs wrote so well they overcame the other flaws in their game. Corruption is my favorite example. The art is freaking horrible. The gameplay and writing are fantastic. IMHO if corruptions dev brought a competant 3d artist on board he'd be raking in $$$.
If you ask on F95.. and i have.. what the most important part of any adult game is you'll see "good writing/plot" over.. and over.. and over.. more than the artwork. More than anything. If youre not a good writer .. ask for one... there are lots of people here who dont/cant create a game.. but are amazingly talented and would love to help build one.
Bad Writing Will Destroy Your Brilliant Game.

3.
A: Great artwork is your hook. Great artwork will get people to try your game. Great artwork will keep people coming back even if your game is a bit horrible.. in hopes it gets better. We've all seen these. Game after game after game. We keep coming back.. getting more and more annoyed that such a brilliant artist is completely clueless in every other way. If you suck at art ASK someone to help. Im very good with daz and make original models or modify models. And scenese etc. I and others would be happy to build you a few models or give you some of ours. Or even design and send you a scene. Just ask us. You may be able to overcome bad art with great writing and design.. but why would you?
b: Do. Not. Reuse. Assets that have been used over and over and over... DMD's heroin, The girls in big brother, etc etc etc. Again .. the community will build models for you. When i see reused models for the 100th time i know the dev is just copying and assume he has no talent. I dont even try these games. Ask us we will help.
c: Really weird bad characters. Wateremellon breats. Tossed on clothing assets and hair that look freaking bizarre. All your characters having the same body etc. UGLY models. Its a freaking porn game. Noone wants to see ugly (unless it's an "ugly fetish" game which.. probably exists)
Please note.. your art doesnt have to be perfect. Yes theres a huge difference between a 2-4 hour render then photoshop work and a 20 minute render. And we love those. But you can do 10 minute renders that look Very good and id rather have lots of 10 minute render content than one update a month with 3 new scenes... i think most of us agree.
4.
a: Psychology is the HEART of these games. People dont know why they have fetishes. 99.9% of people.. all sane people.. do not want to have sex with their daughters. Or sons. Or rape people. Or or or. The fetish is about something else. That your player probably doesnt understand any more than you.
That doesnt make your fetish wrong or immoral or illegal. I love corruption and incest games . IRL the thought is horrific to me. Its a fetish for someone whos NOT my relative. (i will admit i had this smoking hot cousin though). Dont be ashamed or whatever of your fetish or think your fans are weirdos (well any mroe than anyone else).
b: Your characters have to act logically. Corruption game.. mc flirts a bit.. corrupts the innocent.. who instantly turns int o an experienced prostitute begging for sex as if shes addicted to crack who of course performs standard pornmovie sex: Becomes aggressive, takes clothes off , drops to knees and blowjob, climbs on top, Gets on all fours (theres a standard script for a reason.. because porn is sold in small chunks and its easier to sell it this way.. its NOT good if youre not specifically doing that and that is NOT how sex/women work). Ive never met a woman in my life who begged to have someone cum on her face. Her face is not an erogenous zone. Neither generally are her boobs. Some women have fetishes like bj fetishes. Its very rare.Make your characters act like People. Not sex robots. Thats why yorue here instead of the 12312323 porn sites out there.
Make your characters real. The more real the better your game. Your characters have minds. Brains. desires. needs. hates etc.

5. dedication: we are sick of .01 games . to the point i dont play these games much anymore unless theyre near finished. This is a MAJOR understaking. You CAN design games without many renders honestly.. use the RPG mechanic used in BB and others. 5 or 6 standard rendered scenes. Then plop characters in for changes. But.. ive been doing Daz and cg hardcore for a couple years now.. i constantly get better.. have countless renders. My game isnt even ready for pre-alpha. The people who made the huge games probably have thousands and thousands of hours in their games. Know what yorue getting into. And dont expect it to pay off any time soon. In fact its probable it never will. Just like most writers most game devs spend a Lot of time not being paid for what they do. Join a team. Get help. Ive seen devs ask for help and have people design the scenes and render them for them. This is a huge undertaking . For an Alpha/.01 .. 200 renders.. 1 to 4 hours eah.. plus probably 4 times that many learning or that didnt fit or that came out wrong etc etc. Not counting the hours designing those scenes and tweaking them over and over. If you arent ready for that.. get help . Or just make art and post it. Or start a website to post your art. But... i hope you'll ask us for help. Im willing to create characters and scenes for people. Even perhaps to do some renders.. a lot of us are. Its a huge undertaking . We are willing to help.


The point of this? Make your world logical, make your GAME logical, make your people real, make sure you Enjoy what youre doing, dont be a drone and copy. Take your fans seriously. That doesnt mean change or remove fetishes. It means if half your fans are asking for walkthroughs you fucked up and need a game designer. If your players roll their eyes at reused characters ask someone to make new ones for you. If theyre sick of watermellon boobs and identical characters do the same. If youre writing is garbage this site is Overrun with good writers. Take your fans seriously.. theyre who youre doing it for (well really its for you but they have $$). Theres no reason if youre serious about this you cant make 40-60k a year sitting in your bedroom creating lust. I hope this helps. And i hope others will try to add to this. I certainly need help on things i didnt mention here.. because if i knew how to fix what i do wrong... it wouldnt be a problem

 

[lobotomist]

Just for fun I was trying to make the party members of "the last sovereign". Cause a dream of mine way off in the future, is to make 3d remake of it(hopefully next year). Anyway, since you offered help. Could you make daz models of the party members?

 

[lancelotdulak]

Just for fun I was trying to make the party members of "the last sovereign". Cause a dream of mine way off in the future, is to make 3d remake of it(hopefully next year). Anyway, since you offered help. Could you make daz models of the party members?

Ill look it up. It's very hard to copy models that have been significantly modified. There are people here who are very good at it though. Id actually suggest creating new ones but ill go check it out
Edit: t hose are hand drawn.. and Professional quality. You dont need a cg artist.. you need someone good at drawing.. very good at it imho

 

[lobotomist]

Ill look it up. It's very hard to copy models that have been significantly modified. There are people here who are very good at it though. Id actually suggest creating new ones but ill go check it out
Edit: t hose are hand drawn.. and Professional quality. You dont need a cg artist.. you need someone good at drawing.. very good at it imho

Why would I need drawings for a "3D" remake? I just wanna see your take on the characters not some 1:1 copy.

 

[polywog]

Take any game, and add boobs to it. instantly the difficulty level is increased

 

[lim00n]

It`s an intersting question how much playable time first version should have to draw enough attention to it

 

[zeph19]

Are there any pointers on how to actually write a plot? I'm very interested in becoming a writer for a game, but I don't know where to find scripts / examples.

 

[Kinderalpha]

Are there any pointers on how to actually write a plot? I'm very interested in becoming a writer for a game, but I don't know where to find scripts / examples.

There's a lot of information videos on YouTube regarding arcs, depth, and writing techniques. There are also lots of books on it. Writing adult content isn't held exclusive from general writing practices.

When people say a game has good writing here, they often refer to character depth and story engagement rather then how fancy the author can describe genitalia. At least that's what I've collected.

EDIT: since your post specifically asks for advice, here is some I found. Take it or leave it.

1. Don't introduce characters just to introduce characters. Ive seen time and time again a story containing a character that just seems to be a wildcard or excuse for content. Give your characters depth by giving them a reason to be in the story.

2. Pick a theme and stick with it. If your content is all over the place, it will feel like you're telling ten stories that are okay rather than one story that's awesome

3. Keep asking yourself why. Why does this person act this way, why are they in a relationship with this person, etc.

4. Actions speak louder than words. Don't tell the player the story, let them discover it for themselves. Instead of starting with an introduction, use dialog that makes the player ask questions and want to seek out more information.

5. Find a hook, which is something that hooks the players interest. This could be done in a lot of ways. A popular example is in Game of Thrones, the biggest hook is the white walkers and dragons. Both are mystical wonders that the author knows you'll be fascinated with and want to see more of, so they dance around that the entire plot. Always forcing the viewer to ask, "what's gonna happen next", "what are they up to", etc.

5. If you run into a wall, or a problem with your plot. Use an NPC to solve it. 'The Last Of Us' is a perfect example of a story taking advantage of a NPC to solve a problem. If that game would've been based around a man that had an antidote to cure a deadly disease, it would be boring and a copy of so many other games. Instead, they cleverly introduced a character who IS the antidote, and suddenly you create not only a solution to your problem, but one that the viewer is empathetic with and can put themselves into.

 

[zeph19]

There's a lot of information videos on YouTube regarding arcs, depth, and writing techniques. There are also lots of books on it. Writing adult content isn't held exclusive from general writing practices.

When people say a game has good writing here, they often refer to character depth and story engagement rather then how fancy the author can describe genitalia. At least that's what I've collected.

EDIT: since your post specifically asks for advice, here is some I found. Take it or leave it.

1. Don't introduce characters just to introduce characters. Ive seen time and time again a story containing a character that just seems to be a wildcard or excuse for content. Give your characters depth by giving them a reason to be in the story.

2. Pick a theme and stick with it. If your content is all over the place, it will feel like you're telling ten stories that are okay rather than one story that's awesome

3. Keep asking yourself why. Why does this person act this way, why are they in a relationship with this person, etc.

4. Actions speak louder than words. Don't tell the player the story, let them discover it for themselves. Instead of starting with an introduction, use dialog that makes the player ask questions and want to seek out more information.

5. Find a hook, which is something that hooks the players interest. This could be done in a lot of ways. A popular example is in Game of Thrones, the biggest hook is the white walkers and dragons. Both are mystical wonders that the author knows you'll be fascinated with and want to see more of, so they dance around that the entire plot. Always forcing the viewer to ask, "what's gonna happen next", "what are they up to", etc.

5. If you run into a wall, or a problem with your plot. Use an NPC to solve it. 'The Last Of Us' is a perfect example of a story taking advantage of a NPC to solve a problem. If that game would've been based around a man that had an antidote to cure a deadly disease, it would be boring and a copy of so many other games. Instead, they cleverly introduced a character who IS the antidote, and suddenly you create not only a solution to your problem, but one that the viewer is empathetic with and can put themselves into.

Thank you very much for taking the time to write down these pointers, I actually copied them into a text file! They make a lot of sense.
I absolutely feel the same about character development and story engagement. I'd leave the genitalia to the actual artist.

Very much appreciated.

 

[Droid Productions]

Each writer is a little different. For me, it's all about understanding the characters. Why are they doing things, what kind of things would they do, or refuse to do. Once you understand and know your character, writing dialog gets a lot easier, and you'll find the actual plot is forced to be internally consistent.

 

[lobotomist]

Here's one of the most Informative articles I've seen on the matter:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[lancelotdulak]

Why would I need drawings for a "3D" remake? I just wanna see your take on the characters not some 1:1 copy.

Ohhh my bad my friend. sorry. Ill try to check it out later

 

[lancelotdulak]

There's a lot of information videos on YouTube regarding arcs, depth, and writing techniques. There are also lots of books on it. Writing adult content isn't held exclusive from general writing practices.

When people say a game has good writing here, they often refer to character depth and story engagement rather then how fancy the author can describe genitalia. At least that's what I've collected.

EDIT: since your post specifically asks for advice, here is some I found. Take it or leave it.

1. Don't introduce characters just to introduce characters. Ive seen time and time again a story containing a character that just seems to be a wildcard or excuse for content. Give your characters depth by giving them a reason to be in the story.

2. Pick a theme and stick with it. If your content is all over the place, it will feel like you're telling ten stories that are okay rather than one story that's awesome

3. Keep asking yourself why. Why does this person act this way, why are they in a relationship with this person, etc.

4. Actions speak louder than words. Don't tell the player the story, let them discover it for themselves. Instead of starting with an introduction, use dialog that makes the player ask questions and want to seek out more information.

5. Find a hook, which is something that hooks the players interest. This could be done in a lot of ways. A popular example is in Game of Thrones, the biggest hook is the white walkers and dragons. Both are mystical wonders that the author knows you'll be fascinated with and want to see more of, so they dance around that the entire plot. Always forcing the viewer to ask, "what's gonna happen next", "what are they up to", etc.

5. If you run into a wall, or a problem with your plot. Use an NPC to solve it. 'The Last Of Us' is a perfect example of a story taking advantage of a NPC to solve a problem. If that game would've been based around a man that had an antidote to cure a deadly disease, it would be boring and a copy of so many other games. Instead, they cleverly introduced a character who IS the antidote, and suddenly you create not only a solution to your problem, but one that the viewer is empathetic with and can put themselves into.

Thank you for this!

 

[lancelotdulak]

Each writer is a little different. For me, it's all about understanding the characters. Why are they doing things, what kind of things would they do, or refuse to do. Once you understand and know your character, writing dialog gets a lot easier, and you'll find the actual plot is forced to be internally consistent.

Imho this is what makes great writers as opposed to hollywood hacks.
Stephen King: The minds of his characters ARE his books
Hollywood hacks: combining tropes while using stephen kings character names for movies and dont understand why they suck

 

[lancelotdulak]

It`s an intersting question how much playable time first version should have to draw enough attention to it

I agree. Maybe a really important one we arent discussing enough. I think maybe devs should make nonpublic/nonfan releases for input on art,game design etc. Release it too early and you have people getting literally angry at your .01. Or months later that youre at .03 and theres no content. On the other hand... doing 1000 renders and releasing the game to see it flop would be pretty horrible

 

[Kinderalpha]

I agree. Maybe a really important one we arent discussing enough. I think maybe devs should make nonpublic/nonfan releases for input on art,game design etc. Release it too early and you have people getting literally angry at your .01. Or months later that youre at .03 and theres no content. On the other hand... doing 1000 renders and releasing the game to see it flop would be pretty horrible

Personally, I wouldn't release anything that is earlier than a beta or final release. Unless you have a really good reason to early release, I don't see a point.

 

[lancelotdulak]

Personally, I wouldn't release anything that is earlier than a beta or final release. Unless you have a really good reason to early release, I don't see a point.

I think maybe a lot of these folks see their game as a semi- long term income source if theyre successful. So you write a game that should have maybe 10 hours of gameplay.. month 2 your patreon hits 5k a month... youre going to want to continue expanding that game

 

[Kinderalpha]

I think maybe a lot of these folks see their game as a semi- long term income source if theyre successful. So you write a game that should have maybe 10 hours of gameplay.. month 2 your patreon hits 5k a month... youre going to want to continue expanding that game

Yes and no. It's whatever if you want to use a subscriber/service model for your game development, but that doesn't excuse early releases. I'd say if you release something with ten hours of playable content then you're already in the category of final release. Most adult games don't have that much. I'm thinking more of like ten minutes of gameplay with like ten scenes. That is not an acceptable amount of content for a release.

A sufficient amount of playable time in a version equates to the amount of playable time it takes to deliver what your story is about, all the characters involved, and the features that make it stand out.

I don't support those who release ten minutes of content on a patreon page, immediately asking for funds to continue. There's no excuse for that.

 

[lancelotdulak]

Yes and no. It's whatever if you want to use a subscriber/service model for your game development, but that doesn't excuse early releases. I'd say if you release something with ten hours of playable content then you're already in the category of final release.

I would disagree.. depending on the game type. For a pure VN 10 hours is a TON of content. That's a final game. But for a grindy rpg id disagree

 

[lobotomist]

Ohhh my bad my friend. sorry. Ill try to check it out later

Please try!!! I Don't know enough about daz clothes to come with proper 3d versions of these waifus.