I want to create a game. Should I collaborate or wait?

[Deleted member 444674]

Hey guys. Without wasting any time, let me just say that I am a writer that wants to create a game. Problem is, I don't have the resources to create renders, though I might some time down the line, but I don't know when that is, which is the reason for this thread.

So I need an opinion, a second opinion and as much of them as possible to help me figure this out.

I'm not used to collaborating in any way, shape or form. This is mostly due to bad school experiences. I always felt more trusting of myself to get the job done rather than rely on others. Even though I'm not experienced in DAZ, I trust myself more to learn the process and create photo-realistic renders rather than hand that job to somebody else. Problem is, I don't know when I'll be able to get the resources to start practicing with DAZ.

I have a naturally high standard for myself, this is why I wouldn't want to burden any artist with that responsibility. At best, I'd like the renders to match the quality of Mortze from Tora Productions. Or the quality of Dark Silver's work such as Big Brother and more recently Glamour.

I have a basic understanding of the story I want to create. It is 2:25 AM as I'm typing this, so I plan to go to sleep after this and wake up in the next few hours and really start focusing on the details of the story. I also have an idea of how I want the heroine to look, which is why I feel it would be more comfortable to do this on my own. But I just need some input.

So now for the obvious question.

Should I wait until I can get a better PC to create renders on my own? Or should I scout for an artist to share some of the workload? Right now, I'm leaning more towards the former, because I have a very specific vision and the future is uncertain. I plan to get a new PC, but I don't know WHEN that will be, that's the biggest issue in all of this. If I had a specific date, it'd be easier to decide.

To lay out the full story for you guys so you can understand my situation a bit, my father is expecting money from a case, and the plan was to use a small portion of that to get a fitting PC that could handle DAZ graphically. Problem is, these companies are corrupt jerks and we don't know when his money will come in. The case was finalized and everything, he just needs word from his lawyer when he is able to come in and truly finalize it all, but his lawyer hasn't gotten word yet, so I don't know when I'm able to order a PC. Could be next week. Could be next month. Could be 5 months from now. He was expecting it in December. It is Black History Month now. But I digress.

If I get that PC and get accustomed enough to DAZ to the point where I won't need to collab, then chances are I'll continue on my own. But if an artist here has the capabilities and patience to match that high standard, at least temporarily, I'm more than willing to consider it. But again, I just don't know what the best option is in this scenario.

So should I wait and do things on my own? Or should I collaborate?

The only requirements for caollaborating in this case are:
1. Renders must be high quality. As far as lighting goes and all that other stuff. Like I said, BB or Morzte level at best.

2. Must be fluent English speaker.

That's all really. Thanks in advance guys for taking the time to help me through this dilemma.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Before you go, as someone just like you DO IT! I did, I'm a pretty good writer if you'll allow me to toot my own horn, but I have no experience with digital art. I put an ad out in my sig here on the site and found myself an artist. I was willing to settle a bit because I really just wanted to make a game, but I got really lucky and found a pretty great and dedicated artist who takes criticism well and listens to direction. Seriously, when I first started writing I wasn't sure how far I'd get, and now I'm just wondering how I'm going to make my first release when we are ready. Its so worth it. GOOD LUCK!

 

[Deleted member 444674]

Before you go, as someone just like you DO IT! I did, I'm a pretty good writer if you'll allow me to toot my own horn, but I have no experience with digital art. I put an ad out in my sig here on the site and found myself an artist. I was willing to settle a bit because I really just wanted to make a game, but I got really lucky and found a pretty great and dedicated artist who takes criticism well and listens to direction. Seriously, when I first started writing I wasn't sure how far I'd get, and now I'm just wondering how I'm going to make my first release when we are ready. Its so worth it. GOOD LUCK!

Caught me at a great time, I was about to lock down shop for the night. Thanks for the advice. Like I said, when it comes to collaboration, I've never been too good with it. I was always that one kid in school that got paired up with or grouped with the underachievers in the class so I'm more trusting of myself to get it done.

Keeping what you said in mind, if need be, when I wake up I might make another official thread scouting some DAZ artists. But for now, sleep is beating my ass :FeelsBadMan:

 

[DarthSeduction]

Caught me at a great time, I was about to lock down shop for the night. Thanks for the advice. Like I said, when it comes to collaboration, I've never been too good with it. I was always that one kid in school that got paired up with or grouped with the underachievers in the class so I'm more trusting of myself to get it done.

Keeping what you said in mind, if need be, when I wake up I might make another official thread scouting some DAZ artists. But for now, sleep is beating my ass :FeelsBadMan:

When I was looking I posted one myself that people mostly just overlooked, however I got attention when I did the signature. I also posted to:

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on the suggestion of another dev. Just make a request. I'd also suggest being active in the forum, while working on your story. Then just wait for them to come to you. I got 4 total offers, though I accepted the second. If you're working on that story you'll be able to have something to attract them to you. Being active on the forums will get your name out there. And eventually you'll have someone come to you.

 

[Palanto]

Well another way to go at it would be to create the characters how you want them, then give those characters to your artist and let him/her do the fine tuning on them and putting them in scene/posing/everything else and then let him/her render those.... This way you'd have exact control on HOW your characters should look like while your artist has full control on how good the quality of everything is....

Just a small suggestion....

But there are some really great artists out here in the zone. If you want someone to fit your needs just create a thread and give them a trial task. This way you can see how they work and then chose the best fit for you.... But if you do it that way you need to be specific, give them a wall of text on what the scene should be, how the character should look like and so on (be as specific as possible so that they know what you expect)

 

[Papa Ernie]

Hey guys. Without wasting any time, let me just say that I am a writer that wants to create a game. Problem is, I don't have the resources to create renders, though I might some time down the line, but I don't know when that is, which is the reason for this thread.

So I need an opinion, a second opinion and as much of them as possible to help me figure this out.

I'm not used to collaborating in any way, shape or form. This is mostly due to bad school experiences. I always felt more trusting of myself to get the job done rather than rely on others. Even though I'm not experienced in DAZ, I trust myself more to learn the process and create photo-realistic renders rather than hand that job to somebody else. Problem is, I don't know when I'll be able to get the resources to start practicing with DAZ.

I have a naturally high standard for myself, this is why I wouldn't want to burden any artist with that responsibility. At best, I'd like the renders to match the quality of Mortze from Tora Productions. Or the quality of Dark Silver's work such as Big Brother and more recently Glamour.

I have a basic understanding of the story I want to create. It is 2:25 AM as I'm typing this, so I plan to go to sleep after this and wake up in the next few hours and really start focusing on the details of the story. I also have an idea of how I want the heroine to look, which is why I feel it would be more comfortable to do this on my own. But I just need some input.

So now for the obvious question.

Should I wait until I can get a better PC to create renders on my own? Or should I scout for an artist to share some of the workload? Right now, I'm leaning more towards the former, because I have a very specific vision and the future is uncertain. I plan to get a new PC, but I don't know WHEN that will be, that's the biggest issue in all of this. If I had a specific date, it'd be easier to decide.

To lay out the full story for you guys so you can understand my situation a bit, my father is expecting money from a case, and the plan was to use a small portion of that to get a fitting PC that could handle DAZ graphically. Problem is, these companies are corrupt jerks and we don't know when his money will come in. The case was finalized and everything, he just needs word from his lawyer when he is able to come in and truly finalize it all, but his lawyer hasn't gotten word yet, so I don't know when I'm able to order a PC. Could be next week. Could be next month. Could be 5 months from now. He was expecting it in December. It is Black History Month now. But I digress.

If I get that PC and get accustomed enough to DAZ to the point where I won't need to collab, then chances are I'll continue on my own. But if an artist here has the capabilities and patience to match that high standard, at least temporarily, I'm more than willing to consider it. But again, I just don't know what the best option is in this scenario.

So should I wait and do things on my own? Or should I collaborate?

The only requirements for caollaborating in this case are:
1. Renders must be high quality. As far as lighting goes and all that other stuff. Like I said, BB or Morzte level at best.

2. Must be fluent English speaker.

That's all really. Thanks in advance guys for taking the time to help me through this dilemma.

Alternatives:
1) Write a text only game
2) Start making the game with placeholders and add art later
3) Use real porn images or other publicly available images (although if you're going the Patreon route, this may not be feasible)

Also, you didn't mention anything about coding. That's probably the hardest part of game development. Be prepared.

 

[Deleted member 444674]

Well another way to go at it would be to create the characters how you want them, then give those characters to your artist and let him/her do the fine tuning on them and putting them in scene/posing/everything else and then let him/her render those.... This way you'd have exact control on HOW your characters should look like while your artist has full control on how good the quality of everything is....

Just a small suggestion....

But there are some really great artists out here in the zone. If you want someone to fit your needs just create a thread and give them a trial task. This way you can see how they work and then chose the best fit for you.... But if you do it that way you need to be specific, give them a wall of text on what the scene should be, how the character should look like and so on (be as specific as possible so that they know what you expect)

Yes I had this in mind. Since my vision was specific from the jump I had it in my mind to voice the specifics of the characters and HOW I'd like them to look. Since I'm rested I will be creating a new thread momentarily to start looking for an artist. Thanks for the input.

 

[Deleted member 444674]

Alternatives:
1) Write a text only game
2) Start making the game with placeholders and add art later
3) Use real porn images or other publicly available images (although if you're going the Patreon route, this may not be feasible)

Also, you didn't mention anything about coding. That's probably the hardest part of game development. Be prepared.

Art is a big part of the game enjoyment for me as I'd imagine it would be for others. If I can't put art in the game, I'd rather wait altogether.

Yes, I'm planning the Patreon route. But again, I'd like this to feel as authentic an adult game as possible. Instead of using real porn images, placeholders, etc, It'd feel much more fulfilling to have the characters made in my image to compliment the story.

As for coding, I have zero experience with it. Ren'Py I've tried in the past, and it seemed doable, until we got into the nitty gritty and after we got into that, everything I learned previously escaped my mind.

I plan to make the game HTML. An adult game writer named "Tlaero" who makes games like Saving Chloe had created a story creation tool that limits the need for coding, and that's the tool I had the most success with. I learned how to use it in literally just 45 minutes of seeing how it worked for the game Saving Chloe by loading that game into the tool and seeing how Tlaero "coded" it.

So in terms of that, I'll be fine. Thanks for the input!

 

[DarthSeduction]

Art is a big part of the game enjoyment for me as I'd imagine it would be for others. If I can't put art in the game, I'd rather wait altogether.

Yes, I'm planning the Patreon route. But again, I'd like this to feel as authentic an adult game as possible. Instead of using real porn images, placeholders, etc, It'd feel much more fulfilling to have the characters made in my image to compliment the story.

As for coding, I have zero experience with it. Ren'Py I've tried in the past, and it seemed doable, until we got into the nitty gritty and after we got into that, everything I learned previously escaped my mind.

I plan to make the game HTML. An adult game writer named "Tlaero" who makes games like Saving Chloe had created a story creation tool that limits the need for coding, and that's the tool I had the most success with. I learned how to use it in literally just 45 minutes of seeing how it worked for the game Saving Chloe by loading that game into the tool and seeing how Tlaero "coded" it.

So in terms of that, I'll be fine. Thanks for the input!

Unless you want, like, custom buttons and drop down menus and whatnot, ren'py is just menu's variables and conditional statements. It's really easy to do. As for the other extra things I mentioned, ren'py has tutorials that help with all the nitty gritty.

 

[Deleted member 444674]

Unless you want, like, custom buttons and drop down menus and whatnot, ren'py is just menu's variables and conditional statements. It's really easy to do. As for the other extra things I mentioned, ren'py has tutorials that help with all the nitty gritty.

Most of the tutorials I've found in the past never really helped me. I don't really know why. Both from Ren'Py and Youtube. I also know if it's not done right, it can end up being quite buggy, even after testing, something can be missed. But something about Ren'py is just hard for me to grasp. I don't understand what exactly. And it's just the basic things in general. At the moment, I'd feel most comfortable making it HTML.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Most of the tutorials I've found in the past never really helped me. I don't really know why. Both from Ren'Py and Youtube. I also know if it's not done right, it can end up being quite buggy, even after testing, something can be missed. But something about Ren'py is just hard for me to grasp. I don't understand what exactly. And it's just the basic things in general. At the moment, I'd feel most comfortable making it HTML.

It can be overwhelming at first. Especially if you're looking at the whole scope of what Ren'Py can do. However, just making a simple game with basic choices is so easy. Here's an example:

define k=Character("KeyChain")
define d=Character("Darth")

default renskill = 0

label start

d "So, do you wanna learn how to use Ren'Py"


menu:
    "I mean, sure":
        $ renskill +=1
        jump making a game
    "Nah, probably take forever.":
        jump making a game

label making a game

if renskill >= 1
    k "Wow Darth, you're kidding it's that simple?"
    d "Seriously, its just menus and conditional statements with a few easy variables."
    k "I guess ren'py isn't that diffucult to use."
else
   d "well, you could use html, I guess.."

In that little sample you have a functioning bit of code that demonstrates all the things you might need to know. We define our characters, set the default for a variable, started the game, used character strings, implimented a menu, increased our variable, and had a conditional statement that relied on that variable.

Making a game is just doing that over and over. The only hard part is keeping track of your variables so that you don't make conditions that pass every time or are too hard to pass. Sometimes, you might have a menu inside of a conditional statement, but even then its the same concept. The syntax is really easy.

Its getting into anything else that gets more complicated.

 

[Rich]

It can be overwhelming at first. Especially if you're looking at the whole scope of what Ren'Py can do. However, just making a simple game with basic choices is so easy. Here's an example:

Might want to correct the spelling of "default" in your example, just for the record.

The only hard part is keeping track of your variables

Yes. Also, there are a few things that aren't mentioned very strongly in the Ren'Py docs, but are worthwhile to know, IMHO:

• The default project setup has files "options.rpy" and "script.rpy". Many people think those names are required. They're not. The project will find every ".rpy" file in the directory and subdirectories. Thus, "best practice" is to organize your game using shorter scripts, in files that will help you find things when you go back and look for them. One giant "script.rpy" file is much harder to manage. Some developers add a new script with each release (i.e. day1.rpy, day2.rpy, etc.). Others have an .rpy file per scene or something like that. Doesn't matter how you do it, as long as it makes sense to you.
• Labels are "global." Meaning that you can jump to any label from anywhere, but you can only use a particular label name once in the entire project. Thus, some sort of naming convention is a good thing to adopt. Note that the "making a game" label in the example above is unnecessary, as when you finish a section in a menu, by default Ren'py picks up immediately after the completion of the menu. (Although you can't show everything in a tiny example like this, it _is_ a pretty complete example for a vanilla VN.)
• When version 0.2 of your project introduces a new variable that wasn't in version 0.1, saves from version 0.1 are an issue, since they don't contain that variable. If you reference an undefined variable, BOOM! Thus, before you use a new variable, you want to define it. The "default" mechanism is a good way to do that, since it won't overwrite an existing value, but will provide one if there isn't one. If you follow the "new file for each release" approach, then "defaulting" all the new variables used in the new release at the top of the new file is a good approach.
• Indentation matters. Be consistent.
• Get to know and love the developer console - it will help you debug your game. In particular, if you have "developer mode" enabled, you can set any variable value, jump to any label, etc.

Just my $0.02...

 

[Deleted member 444674]

@darthseduction @Rich
I'm currently making a thread to look for an artist (Had to create another tab so I don't lose the wall of text I created, lol)

It looks simple enough. I'm sure I would get the hang of it after practicing some. For me, the best way to describe it is seeing all the "[, : \, +, = ,.;;[.,;,;}" along with other text on the screen is overwhelming, kind of like getting a math homework packet and you get discouraged but then find out it's rather simple after a repetition.

I downloaded Ren'Py 2 times in the past, and uninstalled it both times due to the strain on my mind, lol, that's how overwhelming it can be for me. But at the end of the day, it's really just about what works best for my setup. I don't think my game will be a monthly update sort of thing. It will be a finished product made into episodes. As in one finished episode. Then another finished episode a few months later, etc.

I'll stick with HTML for now, but I'll do some personal drills with Ren'Py again.

Is there a way to see the code of a game? It might help to have a visual. Looking at a blank slate can be confusing. But mirroring the basic code from a different game should help me understand better.

 

[DarthSeduction]

You can decrypt any of them, just look up how, it's pretty simple. I'm pretty sure Ptolemy doesn't encrypt his though, so both dreaming of Dana and intimate remains will be regular rpy files. I think I was looking at either sisterly lust or view of family the other day and whichever it was wasn't encrypted either.

 

[Deleted member 444674]

You can decrypt any of them, just look up how, it's pretty simple. I'm pretty sure Ptolemy doesn't encrypt his though, so both dreaming of Dana and intimate remains will be regular rpy files. I think I was looking at either sisterly lust or view of family the other day and whichever it was wasn't encrypted either.

Okay, thanks for being such a big help! I just posted the other thread, but I've been at it all morning. Time to stretch my legs a bit. :FeelsGoodMan::FeelsGoodMan::FeelsGoodMan:

 

[anne O'nymous]

Well another way to go at it would be to create the characters how you want them, then give those characters to your artist and let him/her do the fine tuning on them and putting them in scene/posing/everything else and then let him/her render those.... This way you'd have exact control on HOW your characters should look like while your artist has full control on how good the quality of everything is....

One thing he can also do, is using Honey studio, by example, to create a generic version of the scenes to render. It's not really difficult to use it, and it will give visual clues of what's in his mind. In the same time, the same pictures can be used as placeholder (WARNING when releasing an update) to code the game while the scene are created and rendered.

 

[CheekyGimp]

Might want to correct the spelling of "default" in your example, just for the record.



Yes. Also, there are a few things that aren't mentioned very strongly in the Ren'Py docs, but are worthwhile to know, IMHO:

• The default project setup has files "options.rpy" and "script.rpy". Many people think those names are required. They're not. The project will find every ".rpy" file in the directory and subdirectories. Thus, "best practice" is to organize your game using shorter scripts, in files that will help you find things when you go back and look for them. One giant "script.rpy" file is much harder to manage. Some developers add a new script with each release (i.e. day1.rpy, day2.rpy, etc.). Others have an .rpy file per scene or something like that. Doesn't matter how you do it, as long as it makes sense to you.
• Labels are "global." Meaning that you can jump to any label from anywhere, but you can only use a particular label name once in the entire project. Thus, some sort of naming convention is a good thing to adopt. Note that the "making a game" label in the example above is unnecessary, as when you finish a section in a menu, by default Ren'py picks up immediately after the completion of the menu. (Although you can't show everything in a tiny example like this, it _is_ a pretty complete example for a vanilla VN.)
• When version 0.2 of your project introduces a new variable that wasn't in version 0.1, saves from version 0.1 are an issue, since they don't contain that variable. If you reference an undefined variable, BOOM! Thus, before you use a new variable, you want to define it. The "default" mechanism is a good way to do that, since it won't overwrite an existing value, but will provide one if there isn't one. If you follow the "new file for each release" approach, then "defaulting" all the new variables used in the new release at the top of the new file is a good approach.
• Indentation matters. Be consistent.
• Get to know and love the developer console - it will help you debug your game. In particular, if you have "developer mode" enabled, you can set any variable value, jump to any label, etc.

Just my $0.02...

Thanks for the tip on using default for variables. I seen default being used but wasn't sure why until now (i.e. why not just use $variable=0 to initialise), but now it makes sense. Thanks

 

[CheekyGimp]

Might want to correct the spelling of "default" in your example, just for the record.



Yes. Also, there are a few things that aren't mentioned very strongly in the Ren'Py docs, but are worthwhile to know, IMHO:

• The default project setup has files "options.rpy" and "script.rpy". Many people think those names are required. They're not. The project will find every ".rpy" file in the directory and subdirectories. Thus, "best practice" is to organize your game using shorter scripts, in files that will help you find things when you go back and look for them. One giant "script.rpy" file is much harder to manage. Some developers add a new script with each release (i.e. day1.rpy, day2.rpy, etc.). Others have an .rpy file per scene or something like that. Doesn't matter how you do it, as long as it makes sense to you.
• Labels are "global." Meaning that you can jump to any label from anywhere, but you can only use a particular label name once in the entire project. Thus, some sort of naming convention is a good thing to adopt. Note that the "making a game" label in the example above is unnecessary, as when you finish a section in a menu, by default Ren'py picks up immediately after the completion of the menu. (Although you can't show everything in a tiny example like this, it _is_ a pretty complete example for a vanilla VN.)
• When version 0.2 of your project introduces a new variable that wasn't in version 0.1, saves from version 0.1 are an issue, since they don't contain that variable. If you reference an undefined variable, BOOM! Thus, before you use a new variable, you want to define it. The "default" mechanism is a good way to do that, since it won't overwrite an existing value, but will provide one if there isn't one. If you follow the "new file for each release" approach, then "defaulting" all the new variables used in the new release at the top of the new file is a good approach.
• Indentation matters. Be consistent.
• Get to know and love the developer console - it will help you debug your game. In particular, if you have "developer mode" enabled, you can set any variable value, jump to any label, etc.

Just my $0.02...

Sorry for hijacking this thread, but two more questions: If you have multiple script files, how do you manage what order/sequence they run. And what is the developer console ??

 

[CheekyGimp]

And in response to the OP. From my own basic experience, the graphics and coding are much more difficult to master than the writing. So collaborate Vs Wait will really depend on what's more important... Developing everything yourself or time to completion. Because if you want to develop renders of the quality you mention, it will take some time to master. Learning basic coding shouldn't take too long (especially Renpy). It is possible to create a really good game using basic coding skills, but you won't create a great game with basic graphics/render skills. So if you are going solo, spend the next few weeks working on your art skills.

 

[Deleted member 444674]

And in response to the OP. From my own basic experience, the graphics and coding are much more difficult to master than the writing. So collaborate Vs Wait will really depend on what's more important... Developing everything yourself or time to completion. Because if you want to develop renders of the quality you mention, it will take some time to master. Learning basic coding shouldn't take too long (especially Renpy). It is possible to create a really good game using basic coding skills, but you won't create a great game with basic graphics/render skills. So if you are going solo, spend the next few weeks working on your art skills.

Thanks for the input. This was a while ago now, but I have an artist at the moment so that issue was handled.

As for the engine, it'll definitely be Ren'Py. Last week, I would've never used it, but I'm a very quick study. (I actually surprised myself with how quick I picked up the basics.)

In just a day, I was able to gather most, if not all of the basics. Such as text, text color, images, image transitioning, music, sfx, splash screens, all that stuff. Before I would've been lost, but I guess it just wasn't my day. Now I've managed to finish one full scene with the artist I'm working with in as quickly as a single day and I want to try to release a demo after I have about 3 or 4 full scenes done. 5 max. So the basic coding from my experience is very easy. It was actually very fun after I got the hang of it and can't wait to learn more as I go.

That said, I'd still like to get a new PC and work on my Daz skills. My current one can't even handle 3delight, let alone Iray. So I'm working towards that goal.

There's not much to look at on my Patreon page right now other than a few character bios and concepts, but if anyone is interested in checking it out, here it is.

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