I want to make a game, but struggling with a couple of mental hurdles...

[peterppp]

It's not really irrational to see Steam as not being really different. Yeah, few adult games devs make 9 figures numbers there, but they are the exception that had the luck to make the right game and have it featured at the right time. Basing the income from Steam on them is like expecting all adult games devs on Patreon to be Dark Cookie or Adepus Steve.

the difference is that devs generally make more on steam than on patreon (if they are on both) because the steam audience is huge.

 

[anne O'nymous]

the difference is that devs generally make more on steam than on patreon (if they are on both) because the steam audience is huge.

It's not just the audience that is huge on Steam, the concurrence is too, even for adult games. If you get noticed you'll make more, yes, but the chance to be noticed are lowers.
As I implied, you focus on the fact that one dev made tons of sweet money, forgetting that it's only one among dozen of thousands; and that his game already had a relative success.

You are also forgetting that the steam audience pay once, while Patreon is a subscription. Therefore for the 95% that pass unnoticed, Patreon will represent a higher income in regard of their whole times as adult games developer. Over a full year, your 30 patrons at US$ 5 worth more than 120 Steam users at US$ 15 due to the fees difference. And for most adult games devs, 120 Steam users is a reasonable expectation.
Not that one shouldn't be on Steam, devs should be on all possible platforms. But being on Steam isn't more synonym of sweet money than being of Patreon.

 

[Count Morado]

the difference is that devs generally make more on steam than on patreon (if they are on both)

That's your opinion. Just like me, you do not have data to back this opinion up. This is why I won't make a prediction on it - because outside of a handful of analogs, I have nothing but speculation to go on.

 

[peterppp]

As I implied, you focus on the fact that one dev made tons of sweet money, forgetting that it's only one among dozen of thousands; and that his game already had a relative success.

what "his game"? i haven't focused on any game at all. i've always spoken generally.

You are also forgetting that the steam audience pay once, while Patreon is a subscription. Therefore for the 95% that pass unnoticed, Patreon will represent a higher income in regard of their whole times as adult games developer. Over a full year, your 30 patrons at US$ 5 worth more than 120 Steam users at US$ 15 due to the fees difference. And for most adult games devs, 120 Steam users is a reasonable expectation.
Not that one shouldn't be on Steam, devs should be on all possible platforms. But being on Steam isn't more synonym of sweet money than being of Patreon.

i'm not forgetting anything. devs make more money on steam. you dont make money on steam just one year, you keep getting sales year after year. after a few years, your monthly steam income may be lower than your mothly patreon income, but then you release a new game/season and you make a lot more on steam again while patreon remains relatively the same.

That's your opinion. Just like me, you do not have data to back this opinion up. This is why I won't make a prediction on it - because outside of a handful of analogs, I have nothing but speculation to go on.

it's not just my opinion. ask devs.

 

[Count Morado]

it's not just my opinion. ask devs.

Again, as I said, analogs. Unless you ask a whole lot of devs that would be a proper sample representative of all adult games listed on steam, you aren't getting accurate or even predictive data.

Looking at Steam DB, the distribution of popularity (reviews, peak players, etc) is similar to that of paid subs on Patreon: over half have single-digit player peaks, with about 1000 doing well and only the top 100 or so of the 5000 listed in Steam DB doing gang busters. Many are <$10 and appear to often be on sale for 50% or more off. That's a 1 time retail sale. Whereas the average Patreon adult game paid sub is somewhere between $2.50 and $5.00 each month

I am not saying you are incorrect. I am not saying you are correct. I am saying that you don't have the data to support your opinion at this time.

 

[peterppp]

Again, as I said, analogs. Unless you ask a whole lot of devs that would be a proper sample representative of all adult games listed on steam, you aren't getting accurate or even predictive data.

Looking at Steam DB, the distribution of popularity (reviews, peak players, etc) is similar to that of paid subs on Patreon: over half have single-digit player peaks, with about 1000 doing well and only the top 100 or so of the 5000 listed in Steam DB doing gang busters. Many are <$10 and appear to often be on sale for 50% or more off. That's a 1 time retail sale. Whereas the average Patreon adult game paid sub is somewhere between $2.50 and $5.00 each month

I am not saying you are incorrect. I am not saying you are correct. I am saying that you don't have the data to support your opinion at this time.

believe what you want. it's pretty common knowledge among devs.

 

[Count Morado]

it's pretty common knowledge among devs (of the few that I've asked, anyway).

FIFY

EDIT 1: A quick look at the median game listed on Steam with the tags "sexual content" AND "nudity" AND "mature" that have been released up through today, there are 4220 listed on Gamalytic with estimated revenues. There are other sites, but the ones I looked at required creating an account, etc. This was a quick look up. Of the 4220, about 120 or so have no sales/no price. So that leaves about 4100 that Gamalytic has to work from.

The median game has an estimated revenue of $6.5k. Some of those games making that estimated revenue were released this year. Some of those games were released over 5 years ago. But the median is $6.5k USD.


That is before Steam's 30% cut. Taking that out, that makes it $4.6k USD median. For a game released this year - that's over $700 per month. For a game released at the end of 2019, that's about $70 per month.

EDIT 2:

Release Year	Median Estimated Lifetime Revenue (after Steam cut)	Appr Avg/Mth	Screenshot
2025​	$422​	$140​	​
2024​	$2,660​	$222​	​
2023​	$2,450​	$102​	​
2022​	$1,680​	$47​	​
2021​	$4,200​	$88​	​
2020​	$9,660​	$161​	​
2019​	$17,220​	$239​	​
2018​	$44,170​	$525​	​

So, based upon this data, I would say listing an adult game on Steam does show that it has the potential of earning double per month on that platform, on average, than that a person might see if they only used Patreon as their funding platform.

We are still comparing apples to oranges, however, due to comparing a far higher number of completed games on Steam when considering that Patreon is primarily a funding platform used by developers while building their games. Yes, there are similar games on Steam - but not to the extent seen on Patreon. This is similar to when people compare "Japanese games" to "Western games" on here when talking about abandoned and completion rates - the conditions at which games find themselves on the market are different between the two and thus, aren't proper comparisons. Similar can be said about comparing Steam revenues to Patreon revenues.

Anyway. I think the quick look at the data also shows it's not as lucrative as presented - unless you got in when adult games started appearing on Steam in the early years (pre-2020). The median adult game developer is still not going to be able to earn a living simply by listing their game on Steam, singularly or in combination with other platforms.

As I stated many times - without proper deeper look at the data - a reasonable comparison is not possible to give a better prediction or opinion. And that deeper look still has yet to be done. This is only a quick glance - but it is something to start from.

 

[peterppp]

FIFY

nope

 

[Count Morado]

nope

Yup. See my second edit.

 

[anne O'nymous]

what "his game"?

FreshWomen and its 9 digits units sold on Steam.
Being 1,110th seller on Steam (see below), a platform that have

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, he's on the top 0.5%, standing among professionals and AAA games. He is a lucky exception and at no time reflect the reality.

i haven't focused on any game at all. i've always spoken generally.

Like wanabe devs don't focus on any game when they come and tell that they'll make tons of money, thanks to their revolutionary game. But, like them, it's not because you don't focus on a particular game, that you aren't forgetting the not this successful majority.

devs make more money on steam.

According to what or who?

Count Morado and me, we are saying that we don't see rational reasons for this to be actually true, especially in the proportion you present. At the opposite you claim that it's an undeniable truth. So give proof of this, or at least explain your reasoning better than with "there's more public", and "ask devs".

Because sorry, but "there's more public" isn't an argument. The number of users for the platform do not translate literally into a number of "users" for the game.
In 2021 Patreon had

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, against over

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. It's a 33% increase.
In 2021,

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had 81,791 patrons, against now 98,104. It's an increase around 20%.

As for the "ask devs", I'll address it below.

you dont make money on steam just one year, you keep getting sales year after year.

I never said the opposite; I limited to one year the Patreon income, but never said that the sales on Steam would take place in a single year.
And, obviously, saying that you keep getting sales year after year on Steam is forgetting that you keep getting pledges month after month on Patreon. But the difference isn't this.

The difference is that, by being a subscription, with Patreon your gains will rise over the time even if your number of players stagnate. You'll reach your peak with 30 patrons at US$ 5/month, and they'll still be there the following years, still giving your US$ 5/month.

At the opposite, Steam is a one time sale. For your gains to rise over the time, you need to find new players. You'll reach your peak with 120 buyers at US$ 15, and the instant you've reached it, it's finished. Whatever if you need one month or three years to reach this peak, you'll not earn more than this. They'll be as faithful players as your patrons on Patreon, sticking with you for years, but you'll not earn more due to this.

after a few years, your monthly steam income may be lower than your mothly patreon income, but then you release a new game/season and you make a lot more on steam again while patreon remains relatively the same.

The average game need 4 years to be finished. Sticking to my 30 patrons at US$ 5, you'll need to find 480 buyers on Steam to equalize the income. It's 16 times the numbers of patrons.
As I said above, Patreons have 8 millions users, this while Steam have

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. It's 16 times the numbers for Patreon.
Looks like the difference isn't this big after all. You've potentially 16 times more players on Steam, and it's what you'll need to earn the same than through Patreon during the game development time.

Of course, as dev, you'll be happy.
You'll look at your Steam income and see that you sold 20 games that month, getting US$ 300 (minus the fees). Then you'll look at Patreon and see that the same month you only earned US$ 150 (still minus the fees).
But the next month, when you'll only sold 3 copies on Steam, you'll not acknowledge that you earned more on Patreon. And, when you'll retire, X years later, you'll not look back and compare both incomes, seeing that you finally earned more from Patreon that from Steam.

What, once again, doesn't mean that you can not earn more from Steam. But those earnings have to be weighted for all the game lifetime, not just instantly.
After, yes, your game will still be available on Steam even after the end of its development. But it will be one among

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. So, unless it get an exceptional rating (that are even more messed than here), or if you regularly promote it, don't expect to get more than one sale once in a while.

In the end, yes, some lucky guys will be really successful thanks to Steam. But the majority will earn globaly the same from Patreon than from Steam.

it's not just my opinion. ask devs.

What dev?

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, who have 225 followers, with an alltime peak at 2 simulatneous players, for a game released in 2020? [It's a random dev, 25th in the 70th page, so globally the one that stand more or less in the middle of the

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]
Or

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, who have 97,2634 followers, an alltime peak at 3,383 simulatneous players, and rank 1,110th seller, for a game released in 2022?

Something tell me that I'll not get the same answer depending on which one I'll ask...

Even

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wouldn't be as enthousiast as OppaiMan, being only ranked 1,456th seller, despite his game being released in 2020 and him having an alltime peak at 5,709 simultaneous players.


As I said, you look at the top of the charts, and assume that everyone else perform as well. But this is just an assumption that absolutely nothing can back up, especially not the facts.
It doesn't mean that devs shouldn't have their game available on Steam. Any income is a welcomed income. But unlike what you claim, Steam is not a miracle solution that will make you earn tons of money. Like for Patreon, only the lucky ones achieve this.

 

[peterppp]

Yup. See my second edit.

you fixed it to say i've asked a few devs. i havent asked a few devs. i've seen numbers from a lot of f95 devs who are both on patreon and steam. i dont know about other type of adult games, i'm talking about the typical f95 devs doing western games.

use graphtreon and gamalytic to compare devs with games both on patreon and steam. to begin with, see how long it will take you to find even one who made more on patreon than their combined steam earnings to judge if you think it's worth to keep comparing. then if you have compared many devs, present your data. you'll see i'm right.

if much of their income comes from subscribestar it will be harder to estimate, but you could skip those devs

 

[Count Morado]

you fixed it to say i've asked a few devs. i havent asked a few devs. i've seen numbers from a lot of f95 devs who are both on patreon and steam. i dont know about other type of adult games, i'm talking about the typical f95 devs doing western games.

use graphtreon and gamalytic to compare devs with games both on patreon and steam. to begin with, see how long it will take you to find even one who made more on patreon than their combined steam earnings to judge if you think it's worth to keep comparing. then if you have compared many devs, present your data. you'll see i'm right.

if much of their income comes from subscribestar it will be harder to estimate, but you could skip those devs

Of the developers of the thousands of adult games on Steam and Patreon - you've only asked (or seen numbers) of a relative few.

As for the rest of your post: Need I remind you that YOU are the one making the claim. I have already done more than I should have since the person making the claim is burdened with proving their claim. You haven't supported your claim one iota.

I have already showed a quick look at the data that, on the aggregate, the median adult game developer does do a little more $$$ on Steam than on the median game developer on Patreon, with a lot of caveats about comparisons of apples to oranges. I haven't even gone into the the difference in how a developer grows / maintains customer base on each of the platforms as being different, as well.

Anyway. The bottom line is that I am not going to do your work. I have already shown more work than you about your claim --- and instead of accepting it or offering evidence to refute that (outside of a few hand-picked developers - which you haven't even done that), you decide to remain obstinate.

Have a great day.

 

[peterppp]

FreshWomen and its 9 digits units sold on Steam.
Being 1,110th seller on Steam (see below), a platform that have

You must be registered to see the links

, he's on the top 0.5%, standing among professionals and AAA games. He is a lucky exception and at no time reflect the reality.

i havent said anything about freshwomen! or any other game, top earning or not

As I said, you look at the top of the charts, and assume that everyone else perform as well. But this is just an assumption that absolutely nothing can back up, especially not the facts.

i havent looked at the top. you're the one bring up the top. why you attribute this to me, i have no idea. maybe you confuse me with someone else?

as for what i base what i say on, see my previous reply to morado.

 

[peterppp]

Of the developers of the thousands of adult games on Steam and Patreon - you've only asked (or seen numbers) of a relative few.

As for the rest of your post: Need I remind you that YOU are the one making the claim. I have already done more than I should have since the person making the claim is burdened with proving their claim. You haven't supported your claim one iota.

I have already showed a quick look at the data that, on the aggregate, the median adult game developer does do a little more $$$ on Steam than on the median game developer on Patreon, with a lot of caveats about comparisons of apples to oranges. I haven't even gone into the the difference in how a developer grows / maintains customer base on each of the platforms as being different, as well.

Anyway. The bottom line is that I am not going to do your work. I have already shown more work than you about your claim --- and instead of accepting it or offering evidence to refute that (outside of a few hand-picked developers - which you haven't even done that), you decide to remain obstinate.

Have a great day.

i dont need to do any work since i dont need to support my claim. i'm just putting it out there for people to believe or not. if you dont trust me, that's up to you.

you're wrong about the numbers tho. i've seen enough to be able to draw a conclusion.

 

[Count Morado]

i dont need to do any work since i dont need to support my claim. i'm just putting it out there for people to believe or not. if you dont trust me, that's up to you.

you're wrong about the numbers tho. i've seen enough to be able to draw a conclusion.

I literally provided website name for people to look for themselves AND screenshots of the data showing the numbers. To say I'm wrong when I'm showing the data provided while you are simply telling people to trust you --- Holy fucking shit, your denial. Reminds me of someone who we both know is a bit loose in the screws. Maybe they are rubbing off on you.

Again, have a great day.

 

[peterppp]

I literally provided website name for people to look for themselves AND screenshots of the data showing the numbers. To say I'm wrong when I'm showing the data provided while you are simply telling people to trust you --- Holy fucking shit, your denial. Reminds me of someone who we both know is a bit loose in the screws. Maybe they are rubbing off on you.

Again, have a great day.

hmm? you misunderstand. i meant the number of devs i've seen the numbers of. i havent seen the numbers of all devs, but i dont need to to draw a conclusion.

relax, dude

 

[Count Morado]

hmm? you misunderstand. i meant the number of devs i've seen the numbers of. i havent seen the numbers of all devs, but i dont need to to draw a conclusion.

relax, dude

Holy shit.

Say goodnight, Gracie.

 

[MissCougar]

I believe numbers and data any day more than "because I said so". That's like the "my uncle works at Nintendo" kind of argument.

If you don't have data and evidence you just go with the data and evidence. Denial is kind of silly unless you can prove it. Intuition only goes so far.

I appreciated Count Morado detailed analysis.

 

[Raynare Studios]

there are too many BaD clones. we need a seeds of chaos clone. does op have the courage to make such a gutsy game? idk.

 

[OsamiWorks]

That's your opinion. Just like me, you do not have data to back this opinion up. This is why I won't make a prediction on it - because outside of a handful of analogs, I have nothing but speculation to go on.

I know i dont really post here that often and you might already know the tag for it but do you want steam data?

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