If NTR Is Optional, Why the Hate?

[Lupiscanis]

Now, I'd like to thank you for even giving an option. Most devs don't care, and it's sad when the game I find interest in suddenly has NTR I can't avoid. I just prefer to have a choice to avoid it if possible.

I'm not directing this specifically at you, but I think this is an exaggeration and a common comment. The vast majority of games that have NTR are either very clear about NTR not being avoidable or have it as optional/a toggle. The fact that people choose to play games that have NTR in them that isn't labelled as optional or toggleable and then complain about NTR is an enormous nuisance on the forums imo. Yes there are a few games that have added it as development continues and I think that is essentially bait-and-switch on the developers part, but that's not most devs.

-And most importantly, that NTR can be avoided

Even so, we receive rating comments such as “NTR slop” or “NTR trash,” along with low ratings.

1) If it has NTR, even if it's a toggle or avoidable, you're going to get comments like this. Some people just can't grasp the possibility that people like NTR

(In the following point I'm not pretending I speak for either the pro-NTR or anti-NTR communities or anything inbetween, just offering my opinion, don't @ me)

2) If it's avoidable but not a toggle, you're going to get more complaints (in my opinion) because you're not satisfying either group. A lot of people in my experience who like NTR don't like it being 'avoidable' because (and I haven't played your game so I don't know) a lot of developers will make the choices supremely awkward or make your character have to make an extremely out of character/stupid decision to go on to the NTR path, which irks a lot of NTR enjoyers. Conversely, people who don't like NTR aren't going to want mention of it and having to avoid it in a game they enjoy.

You'll never satisfy everyone and unfortunately NTR is a topic that will be argued about until we all get subsumed by a hive-mind at some point or something.

*edit* - I can't spell.

 

[Tara Dayglow]

My problem with "NTR Optional" is that usually the "no NTR" path gives you a tiny fraction of the game's content to the point that you'll likely end the story as a virgin.

Even when this isn't the case, and you've made your game more 50/50, that's still a lot of content that the non-NTR player is missing out on. So if you like a game and you like the characters and you want to see all the hot sex scenes, you're basically stuck with having to take the NTR path for at least one playthrough.

The same could be said for any game that splits its content (good vs evil path, corruption vs innocent path, whatever), but I think in those cases, people are more open to experiencing all of the options because while they might not like their less-preferred path much, at least it's not triggering for them. And for a lot of people that have been cheated on IRL, NTR is very triggering.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

I'll take a swing at an answer if I may.

Think of it like this: NTR, sharing, and swinging utterly alter the characters involved and the story itself in fundamental ways. It changes who plays it, what audience you attract, the baseline personalities of the characters in the story, and the tone of the work. It's similar to scat, gay, necrophilia, bestiality, rape, etc. Even if it's optional, it often does irreversible harm unless fully removed, and unless that is the tone you want as the majority tone of course.

To further illustrate why it matters and how it changes the character involved even when optional:

Imagine the MC walks into a room and sees a love interest (or any female character) sitting on the couch with a dog. She says, "Hey, do you want to watch me bang this dog? I love fucking dogs but haven't done it in a while since I didn't have one, but I went and adopted this dog so I can do it... if you want to see it." Even if I can say no after that, it changes that character forever. She wanted to do that and has done it before. I'd lose all interest in her, and I'd bet a lot of other people would too. Now, what if she says it like this, "Do you want to watch me bang a dog? I've never done it before, but I saw a video (or something) and it looked fun. What do you think?" Same thing, I wouldn't want to be with someone who wanted to fuck a dog, even as a curiosity. It would alter my view of her fundamentally.

Another scenario is that the MC walks into the room, sees the girl and dog, and thinks, "Do I want to see her fuck that dog?" Again, even if I can say no, it still creates a disconnect between me and the MC because I wouldn't even think of that. The fact that he did means that he wants to see it, but I just didn't allow it. I'll know that there are images where he and the girl did it and I just "avoided" them. I now have no interest in playing a game as a guy who devalues women so much and would want to watch his lady love fuck a dog even if, in this moment, I made him not go for it.

A third possibility is that another character, say a friend or enemy of the MC, walks into the room and says, "Have you considered if she should fuck that dog?" Then I wouldn't ever think, "Hmm, should I?" No, I would kick that person out and end any relationship with that person because if the MC entertains the idea, then we are back to it might as well have been his idea, which ruins him for me. If I were in the MC's shoes and someone tried to make a move on my girl, I wouldn't even consider it. That the other guy would be lucky if he went home with all his teeth. So if the MC does anything less than that, he isn't the kind of guy I want to see a story of, especially if I can name him and make other choices for him and he had been, up to that point, functioning as my avatar.

This isn't to shame anyone who likes these fetishes (bestiality, NTR, or any other). I am simply pointing out that their inclusion has an effect (often "negative" since they play on negative emotions) even if it is "optional." Similarly, think of scat or necrophilia... those are highly polarizing fetishes, and knowing that a girl even wanted to do those things would turn me off of the girl and likely the game. And most players are the same.

The story and the character in it don't have a will of their own. The story will not "demand" anything and nothing will "fit" or not unless you want it to. You create it and every aspect of it. Period. If you don't like bestiality, then that will never show up, even if a character has a pet dog already. Even if some "fans" may keep saying you should add it to attract more players and just make it optional, because if you don't want that content, then it wouldn't even enter your mind to have that as a plot line. If you rule out incest, pregnancy, necrophilia, or scat, those will never show up. And if you like them and want them, then they will be part of the story and you will make them fit because you are in control. Even some thing like anal, which is often treated as a "vanilla" fetish, isn't actually vanilla and can have a detrimental effect on a character if not handled well. If I'm not into anal, for example, and there is a girl who loves it and it's "her favorite type of sex," then even if I can turn it down it has fundamentally altered her character. She has done it before, she enjoys it and wants it, I'm just denying her what she wants and I also have to be reminded that she's done it with other guys before. Now a girl who is curious about it and maybe used a toy or only stuck a finger up her butt, sure, maybe not as bad, but could still be a massive turn off for some people. And think about the people who, if a game has a trap, don't even want the trap to show up or want them to just be rendered as a girl. Because even the hint of gay sex or that the Mc could be attracted to that guy changes the characters fundamentally even if they can turn it down.

And all this doesn't even go into how "optional" means it still happens. There are still gaps in the story where a girl went "out last night," and on the non-NTR route, nothing happened, but on the NTR route, she got fucked by other guys and we saw it. I have never once seen "optional" NTR implemented in a way that didn't have bleed-over and story gaps where that NTR was taking place. Worse, in many stories, the dialog often still holds artifacts of NTR. The worst are the many times where broken code has hit people on a non-NTR route with NTR scenes. Nor am I going to spend a lot of time on how each moment you spend rendering NTR scenes is a moment you aren't rendering the scenes that are actually the main draw and point of the story (unless you are making a full NTR game, of course). I also won't go into too much depth about how optional NTR pleases no one. People who hate it will leave the moment it is added, and people who like it will be upset if it isn't a focus and is only with one character or a one-off scene. (EDIT: And this is partly why you get complaints even when it is labeled as being there, because people see "optional," and assume you mean it is actually possible to play the game as if the NTR doesn't exist but NTR by it's nature changes so much about the characters and story that they play and still get hit with the fact that the NTR is there, they are just not seeing it.)

I also won't spend too much time talking about how some NTR fans will actively bribe, threaten, dox, skew polls, and more to screw over non-NTR games because for some of them, the idea of screwing up a vanilla game and fucking over vanilla players is their real fetish that they get off on, and the NTR is just the tool they use to do that.

Finally, I'll end with this: Sexuality matters to people, and people have (and are allowed to have) standards for what they invest both time and money into (and time is money) engaging with the product. And many people don't want to, in any way, support a fetish they see on the same level as things like bestiality, necrophilia, and other polarizing fetishes. There was more I could have brought up, but I think this is more than enough for now. If anyone wants to chat more, I'm down, but I think I've made the points I wanted to.

 

[Lust And Roll]

I'll take a swing at an answer if I may.

Think of it like this: NTR, sharing, and swinging utterly alter the characters involved and the story itself in fundamental ways. It changes who plays it, what audience you attract, the baseline personalities of the characters in the story, and the tone of the work. It's similar to scat, gay, necrophilia, bestiality, rape, etc. Even if it's optional, it often does irreversible harm unless fully removed, and unless that is the tone you want as the majority tone of course.

To further illustrate why it matters and how it changes the character involved even when optional:

Imagine the MC walks into a room and sees a love interest (or any female character) sitting on the couch with a dog. She says, "Hey, do you want to watch me bang this dog? I love fucking dogs but haven't done it in a while since I didn't have one, but I went and adopted this dog so I can do it... if you want to see it." Even if I can say no after that, it changes that character forever. She wanted to do that and has done it before. I'd lose all interest in her, and I'd bet a lot of other people would too. Now, what if she says it like this, "Do you want to watch me bang a dog? I've never done it before, but I saw a video (or something) and it looked fun. What do you think?" Same thing, I wouldn't want to be with someone who wanted to fuck a dog, even as a curiosity. It would alter my view of her fundamentally.

Another scenario is that the MC walks into the room, sees the girl and dog, and thinks, "Do I want to see her fuck that dog?" Again, even if I can say no, it still creates a disconnect between me and the MC because I wouldn't even think of that. The fact that he did means that he wants to see it, but I just didn't allow it. I'll know that there are images where he and the girl did it and I just "avoided" them. I now have no interest in playing a game as a guy who devalues women so much and would want to watch his lady love fuck a dog even if, in this moment, I made him not go for it.

A third possibility is that another character, say a friend or enemy of the MC, walks into the room and says, "Have you considered if she should fuck that dog?" Then I wouldn't ever think, "Hmm, should I?" No, I would kick that person out and end any relationship with that person because if the MC entertains the idea, then we are back to it might as well have been his idea, which ruins him for me. If I were in the MC's shoes and someone tried to make a move on my girl, I wouldn't even consider it. That the other guy would be lucky if he went home with all his teeth. So if the MC does anything less than that, he isn't the kind of guy I want to see a story of, especially if I can name him and make other choices for him and he had been, up to that point, functioning as my avatar.

This isn't to shame anyone who likes these fetishes (bestiality, NTR, or any other). I am simply pointing out that their inclusion has an effect (often "negative" since they play on negative emotions) even if it is "optional." Similarly, think of scat or necrophilia... those are highly polarizing fetishes, and knowing that a girl even wanted to do those things would turn me off of the girl and likely the game. And most players are the same.

The story and the character in it don't have a will of their own. The story will not "demand" anything and nothing will "fit" or not unless you want it to. You create it and every aspect of it. Period. If you don't like bestiality, then that will never show up, even if a character has a pet dog already. Even if some "fans" may keep saying you should add it to attract more players and just make it optional, because if you don't want that content, then it wouldn't even enter your mind to have that as a plot line. If you rule out incest, pregnancy, necrophilia, or scat, those will never show up. And if you like them and want them, then they will be part of the story and you will make them fit because you are in control. Even some thing like anal, which is often treated as a "vanilla" fetish, isn't actually vanilla and can have a detrimental effect on a character if not handled well. If I'm not into anal, for example, and there is a girl who loves it and it's "her favorite type of sex," then even if I can turn it down it has fundamentally altered her character. She has done it before, she enjoys it and wants it, I'm just denying her what she wants and I also have to be reminded that she's done it with other guys before. Now a girl who is curious about it and maybe used a toy or only stuck a finger up her butt, sure, maybe not as bad, but could still be a massive turn off for some people. And think about the people who, if a game has a trap, don't even want the trap to show up or want them to just be rendered as a girl. Because even the hint of gay sex or that the Mc could be attracted to that guy changes the characters fundamentally even if they can turn it down.

And all this doesn't even go into how "optional" means it still happens. There are still gaps in the story where a girl went "out last night," and on the non-NTR route, nothing happened, but on the NTR route, she got fucked by other guys and we saw it. I have never once seen "optional" NTR implemented in a way that didn't have bleed-over and story gaps where that NTR was taking place. Worse, in many stories, the dialog often still holds artifacts of NTR. The worst are the many times where broken code has hit people on a non-NTR route with NTR scenes. Nor am I going to spend a lot of time on how each moment you spend rendering NTR scenes is a moment you aren't rendering the scenes that are actually the main draw and point of the story (unless you are making a full NTR game, of course). I also won't go into too much depth about how optional NTR pleases no one. People who hate it will leave the moment it is added, and people who like it will be upset if it isn't a focus and is only with one character or a one-off scene. (EDIT: And this is partly why you get complaints even when it is labeled as being there, because people see "optional," and assume you mean it is actually possible to play the game as if the NTR doesn't exist but NTR by it's nature changes so much about the characters and story that they play and still get hit with the fact that the NTR is there, they are just not seeing it.)

I also won't spend too much time talking about how some NTR fans will actively bribe, threaten, dox, skew polls, and more to screw over non-NTR games because for some of them, the idea of screwing up a vanilla game and fucking over vanilla players is their real fetish that they get off on, and the NTR is just the tool they use to do that.

Finally, I'll end with this: Sexuality matters to people, and people have (and are allowed to have) standards for what they invest both time and money into (and time is money) engaging with the product. And many people don't want to, in any way, support a fetish they see on the same level as things like bestiality, necrophilia, and other polarizing fetishes. There was more I could have brought up, but I think this is more than enough for now. If anyone wants to chat more, I'm down, but I think I've made the points I wanted to.

Hey dude! I never expected that discussing NTR would open my mind so much and give me the opportunity to gain new perspectives. First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed comment. Thanks to your input, I can now look at this topic from a broader perspective and better understand the sensitivities of different players.


I realize we are dealing with a very sensitive subject, and I also have to acknowledge how challenging this can be for us as game developers. Every player has a different perception and reaction, and in some cases, even if content is optional, it can seriously affect the perception of characters and the story. Your comment helped me understand these delicate balances better and clarified the points I need to consider when making design decisions.


At the same time, I’ve started to notice another challenging aspect of game development. I do my best to take my players’ sensitivities into account and will continue to do so. However, I’m not sure how to find the right balance, because I can’t know for certain what affects each person, what crosses their limits, and what is acceptable to them. As you said, something that feels “vanilla” to some people can be a hard red line for others. I guess as game developers, we have to work within the boundaries of the majority and our own judgment.


Thank you so much again for this in depth analysis.

 

[Sleeping_King]

Wow! You've come up with a philosophical topic here, even though you'd think people would be tired of answering the same questions over and over.

In my opinion, there are only two answers that can be simplified.

There are people who are able to acknowledge their desires, and there are those who are not.


Of course, we can always say that some people like this kind of content and others don't, but in reality, it's much more complicated. Absolutely every developer of an 18+ game experiences (has done so in the past and will continue to do so) a ton of problems promoting their project to the masses. This problem simply has no solution. People seemed to have solved it with the idea of ratings, but then they destroyed it with all kinds of piracy and, of course, His Highness the Internet.

Considering that a person can't guarantee their children's access to pornography (which, by the way, is their responsibility), they take out their negativity on all adult content, including games. The internet is to blame, the developers are to blame, everyone else is to blame, but not them. They can't be a bad parent, can they? This is a sign of selfishness.
This is the main stumbling block these days. Caring for children, who are not only important to their parents but also have the potential to ruin their own lives and the lives of those around them through misinformation...

In its simplest form, it's all extremely basic. It would be simpler if people didn't lie about their desires, and if children had restrictions as strict as in China, where you have to enter your passport information to play some 12+ games. On the other hand, such strictness might be very bad for people who derive positive results from such activities and don't harm anyone in any way...

In short, I could write a lot on this topic, but if you're wondering why people play games while continuing to criticize adult content, I think it's just idle talk. A person who says one thing and does another is a loser by default (my personal opinion).

P.s.
For some reason, I felt it necessary to add that I understand you perfectly. I've been an artist my entire life, and many people have judged and continue to judge me for some... "inappropriate" drawings. Although naked bodies and other stuff like that are actually natural and don't harm anyone. More of that, sex is natural.
Within these boundaries of what's "correct," "reasonable," or "accepted by society," it's extremely difficult to navigate. It seems like you have the right to be free as a person and an individual, but if most people judge you for your choices and tastes, that's no longer "freedom." Everything is relative. You can control your inner circle, but when you're in marketing, be prepared to accept the harsh reality of many aspects of your interactions with others.

As for NTR and alike stuff, it's best not to talk about it too much, because there are things that can be called "fetish," and there are things that can be called "unhealthy"... if you know what I mean. It's a sensitive topic even here)


Happy holidays!

 

[Lust And Roll]

Wow! You've come up with a philosophical topic here, even though you'd think people would be tired of answering the same questions over and over.

In my opinion, there are only two answers that can be simplified.

There are people who are able to acknowledge their desires, and there are those who are not.


Of course, we can always say that some people like this kind of content and others don't, but in reality, it's much more complicated. Absolutely every developer of an 18+ game experiences (has done so in the past and will continue to do so) a ton of problems promoting their project to the masses. This problem simply has no solution. People seemed to have solved it with the idea of ratings, but then they destroyed it with all kinds of piracy and, of course, His Highness the Internet.

Considering that a person can't guarantee their children's access to pornography (which, by the way, is their responsibility), they take out their negativity on all adult content, including games. The internet is to blame, the developers are to blame, everyone else is to blame, but not them. They can't be a bad parent, can they? This is a sign of selfishness.
This is the main stumbling block these days. Caring for children, who are not only important to their parents but also have the potential to ruin their own lives and the lives of those around them through misinformation...

In its simplest form, it's all extremely basic. It would be simpler if people didn't lie about their desires, and if children had restrictions as strict as in China, where you have to enter your passport information to play some 12+ games. On the other hand, such strictness might be very bad for people who derive positive results from such activities and don't harm anyone in any way...

In short, I could write a lot on this topic, but if you're wondering why people play games while continuing to criticize adult content, I think it's just idle talk. A person who says one thing and does another is a loser by default (my personal opinion).

P.s.
For some reason, I felt it necessary to add that I understand you perfectly. I've been an artist my entire life, and many people have judged and continue to judge me for some... "inappropriate" drawings. Although naked bodies and other stuff like that are actually natural and don't harm anyone. More of that, sex is natural.
Within these boundaries of what's "correct," "reasonable," or "accepted by society," it's extremely difficult to navigate. It seems like you have the right to be free as a person and an individual, but if most people judge you for your choices and tastes, that's no longer "freedom." Everything is relative. You can control your inner circle, but when you're in marketing, be prepared to accept the harsh reality of many aspects of your interactions with others.

As for NTR and alike stuff, it's best not to talk about it too much, because there are things that can be called "fetish," and there are things that can be called "unhealthy"... if you know what I mean. It's a sensitive topic even here)


Happy holidays!

Yes, my friend, it really is a very delicate balance. With what you create, you can evoke many different emotions in people; sometimes positive, sometimes negative. But over time, I think you start to combine where you want to stand with where the people who engage with your work want to be, and carve your own path.

Regarding your note, thank you for sharing it. Working on NSFW content, no matter where you are in the world, always feels a bit like something you have to keep hidden. You may spend a lot of time and effort on it, but it’s not always easy to show it fully.

In my most recent job interview, they asked what I had been working on lately. During this period of unemployment, I had been developing NSFW games, and as you know, these projects are quite demanding and time-consuming. I couldn’t really tell them outright, and they probably looked at me like I was someone wasting their time. Working on NSFW projects can trap you in the shadows if you don’t have financial support, making it almost destructive to continue. And yes, I’m still learning as I go.


Again, thank you so much for your comment! Wishing you wonderful holidays as well.

 

[Sleeping_King]

Yes, my friend, it really is a very delicate balance. With what you create, you can evoke many different emotions in people; sometimes positive, sometimes negative. But over time, I think you start to combine where you want to stand with where the people who engage with your work want to be, and carve your own path.

Regarding your note, thank you for sharing it. Working on NSFW content, no matter where you are in the world, always feels a bit like something you have to keep hidden. You may spend a lot of time and effort on it, but it’s not always easy to show it fully.

In my most recent job interview, they asked what I had been working on lately. During this period of unemployment, I had been developing NSFW games, and as you know, these projects are quite demanding and time-consuming. I couldn’t really tell them outright, and they probably looked at me like I was someone wasting their time. Working on NSFW projects can trap you in the shadows if you don’t have financial support, making it almost destructive to continue. And yes, I’m still learning as I go.


Again, thank you so much for your comment! Wishing you wonderful holidays as well.

Its funny cuz that games actually have a LOT of money, but it is hard to tell people that you have worked on an adult game. Like it's more likely you need to tell it to the Right People for them to acknowledge you)

 

[JoeTheMC84]

Hey dude! I never expected that discussing NTR would open my mind so much and give me the opportunity to gain new perspectives. First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed comment. Thanks to your input, I can now look at this topic from a broader perspective and better understand the sensitivities of different players.

I realize we are dealing with a very sensitive subject, and I also have to acknowledge how challenging this can be for us as game developers. Every player has a different perception and reaction, and in some cases, even if content is optional, it can seriously affect the perception of characters and the story. Your comment helped me understand these delicate balances better and clarified the points I need to consider when making design decisions.

At the same time, I’ve started to notice another challenging aspect of game development. I do my best to take my players’ sensitivities into account and will continue to do so. However, I’m not sure how to find the right balance, because I can’t know for certain what affects each person, what crosses their limits, and what is acceptable to them. As you said, something that feels “vanilla” to some people can be a hard red line for others. I guess as game developers, we have to work within the boundaries of the majority and our own judgment.

Thank you so much again for this in depth analysis.

Happy to take part in the conversation. It really can be tough to find the flow and tone of the story you want to tell and to find the audience you want to attract. It's all part of the process.

Just to expand a little on the anal example and maybe tie it into the topic of why even when labeled as optional, it can still cause problems with people playing the game and getting upset:

Spoiler: If you want to read a little more:

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Spoiler: An Aside:

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Anyway, if you want to chat more, I'm down. I work with several devs, have written for several AVNs, and am creating my own as well. So, again, if you want to chat, I'm down.

 

[seifukulover]

Any fetish can be polarizing, but some are more than others, and I think NTR is one of the highest up that list. And why it's polarizing is because it breaks the implicit contract of all eroge: the love interests are for you. They're yours. This whole fetish about you losing your love to a better man, is not nearly as common as the zone would have you believe. So including NTR in your game doesn't expand the audience, but rather it shrinks it.

 

[13kimg]

The way I see it, it's just the world and the Internet.

There are many many people in the world using the Internet, and each person is their own and different.

I myself am not fond of NTR, but I do acknowledge that it is a fetish in its own right just as much as vanilla. I generally don't play games that have unavoidable NTR content. If NTR is optional, I may still be turned off to play and that will be the end of it, unless there is something about the game that really catches my interest enough to begin playing despite the NTR such as the art, gameplay, story and such.

But I generally will never flame for it, as it was my own standalone decision to play to begin with despite the NTR. If I don't like the game for it in the middle then I just stop playing.

Perhaps the people who wrote the harsh comments that you mentioned are maybe people like me, except they just happen to be more vocal about their aversion towards NTR. I don't see it as all bad and gloomy though, as I see that if they bothered to leave you a rating despite the hate, to me it means that at least they got attached to your game enough to do so, no?

So again, it's just people, entitled to their own whims and opinions like mine.

 

[timurotbasaroglu]

In my opinion, making NTR as an optional choice is one of the worst thing devs can do.
First, you will get all hate from NTR haters, even though they can easily avoide it.
Second, NTR enjoyers probably will think it as an half assed game, as MC of the game always can avoide it.

 

[Lust And Roll]

Wow! I think I got my answer, and I want to share some of the takeaways I’ve gathered with you all.


In the world of NSFW games, there are two main poles: people who enjoy NTR and those who absolutely hate it (yes, harem lovers can be in this second group). And yes, both groups have some hardcore fanatics. As a developer, you will encounter them constantly: you can get dragged for having NTR in your game, and also for not having it. Friends, in both cases, you’ll be under a rain of arrows,so get your shields ready. Optional NTR? Ha! That doesn’t save you either; arrows can come from both sides. Accept your fate.

I got that clearly.

Now, focusing on the group that dislikes NTR. There’s variety here too:

-Those who truly cannot stand NTR won’t even open your game. The moment they see the NTR tag, it’s “no thanks” and they walk away. Optional or full NTR, it doesn’t matter.
-But there are also those who dislike NTR yet still play your game. Some play and move on with their lives. Others get invested and, as they encounter NTR, their frustration spills over into ratings and reviews.

NTR can trigger certain people because of real-life experiences, or simply because they don’t like it. Optional or full NTR, it doesn’t really matter.

Honestly, if you look at the comments on this topic, there are some excellent arguments. To understand what players feel about NTR, don’t just read my summary, check out the actual comments too.

Here’s my roadmap

I’m not a fanatic or enemy of any genre; I like things measured and appropriate to the story. I take players’ feedback, blend it with my own ideas, and carve my path.

Will there be NTR in my future games? Yes,but still optional. I won’t ignore the lessons I’ve learned from these discussions. For non-NTR choices, I’ll avoid leaving traces or hints of NTR.

However, depending on the story, I will never idealize a character into a “pure virgin” just because they don’t encounter NTR, even if they’re 40 and social; likewise, I won’t turn them into someone with a completely sex-filled past. The story will determine what makes sense. If the story requires it, a character may have a past, but I won’t force it to please either NTR fans or haters.

I could write much more, but for now, this will do.I feel like I’ve grasped the issue for now.

Thank you so much to everyone who commented. I’m grateful for your thoughts and insights.

Wishing you all amazing holidays!

 

[bobdango]

I don't hate when a game has NTR optional or otherwise, I just feel a bit sad there was time wasted (for my selfishness) on something I dislike. Also if it is something you can avoid then there is a chunk of content (no matter how small) that you simply won't see in your playthrough. It is the same reason I dislike games with multiple LI and no harem path. I am not the type of person to replay a game most of the time.

Having said all that if the game has avoidable NTR and isn't mainly focused on it I will generally try it.

 

[peterppp]

Ironically, this guy's assertion was that people that obsess about hating NTR in game threads are actually secret NTR fans...

if he is a repressed cuck who is really talking about himself, it would explain some of his warped logic

 

[Lupiscanis]

I think it's also important to understand that there are a lot of things said about NTR that aren't necessarily 100% true in my opinion.

1) I have, in my 9 nine years on this site, rarely seen NTR fans descend on a game that is not marked as netorare to demand that netorare be added. I have seen it, but it's by far the exception, not the rule. The majority of cases where I see it is when a game is tagged as netorare and has maybe one netorare scene, or it's tagged like that because someone takes exception to a scene that isn't really netorare but because it's so polarising it has to be tagged that way otherwise people who don't like netorare will have a fit. This is, in my opinion, similar to the pregnancy tag (and something I see more often, despite it's 82 pages, because most are only pregnancy endings, which is not what most people who enjoy pregnancy want, in my experience).

2) Of the 798 pages of games on the site, there are only 66 pages of netorare games (there are 98 pages of harem games as a comparison). It's a common fetish but it's not all pervasive as some people like to think.

3) Not everyone who enjoys netorare likes netorare for the same reasons. We don't all self-insert. We don't all take delight in the suffering of the MC. Just like how there are degrees to enjoy most fetishes, there are degrees to enjoying netorare.

*edit* - I still can't spell.

 

[timurotbasaroglu]

I think it's also important to understand that there are a lot of things said about NTR that aren't necessarily 100% true in my opinion.

1) I have, in my 9 nine years on this site, rarely seen NTR fans descend on a game that is not marked as netorare to demand that netorare be added. I have seen it, but it's by far the exception, not the rule. The majority of cases where I see it is when a game is tagged as netorare and has maybe one netorare scene, or it's tagged like that because someone takes exception to a scene that isn't really netorare but because it's so polarising it has to be tagged that way otherwise people who don't like netorare will have a fit. This is, in my opinion, similar to the pregnancy tag (and something I see more often, despite it's 82 pages, because most are only pregnancy endings, which is not what most people who enjoy pregnancy want, in my experience).

2) Of the 798 pages of games on the site, there are only 66 pages of netorare games (there are 98 pages of harem games as a comparison). It's a common fetish but it's not all pervasive as some people like to think.

3) Not everyone who enjoys netorare likes netorare for the same reasons. We don't all self-insert. We don't all take delight in the suffering of the MC. Just like how there are degrees to enjoy most fetishes, there are degrees to enjoying netorare.

*edit* - I still can't spell.

That 66 pages of netorare game also includes "not really" ntr games, some of them are just wholesome netorase, some of them are just swinging, some of them are just includes a female character that MC doesn't fuck but others do so that's why for some reason game gets an ntr tag etc etc...
There was much more "so-called" ntr tagged games, but recently mods did a great job as many of fake ntr games tags got removed. But there are still many games out there, and out of 66 pages at least 25 or 30 pages worth of game still just have a "fake" ntr tag, despite they are not ntr game.

 

[Lupiscanis]

That 66 pages of netorare game also includes "not really" ntr games, some of them are just wholesome netorase, some of them are just swinging, some of them are just includes a female character that MC doesn't fuck but others do so that's why for some reason game gets an ntr tag etc etc...
There was much more "so-called" ntr tagged games, but recently mods did a great job as many of fake ntr games tags got removed. But there are still many games out there, and out of 66 pages at least 25 or 30 pages worth of game still just have a "fake" ntr tag, despite they are not ntr game.

I absolutely agree. There's a reason there are several rec. threads on the forums for not just netorare but also netorase etc.

 

[Count Morado]

Okay, Jaike - this might have reached the level for listing in your thread.

That 66 pages of netorare game also includes "not really" ntr games, some of them are just wholesome netorase, some of them are just swinging, some of them are just includes a female character that MC doesn't fuck but others do so that's why for some reason game gets an ntr tag etc etc...

If you run into a game improperly tagged NETORARE and it does not have netorare - you are to report it for mistagging so that it gets updated properly. Per the staff:

 

[Dardanit]

Mhh for me personally just the word NTR is such a dumb word if it's used to tag a game at all.

It's because NTR is now used as a broad term of all different types of getting stolen, stealing, cucking, sharing etc. and not just Netorare

It's a dumb word that now doesn't differentiate what content will actually be in the game.

I don't use itch.io but i know that certain sites, devs, descriptions & not just for games are just too lazy to tag everything the right way.

Maybe the people that rated it bad were just disappointed to see the wrong type in the end.

NTR is now used as just the broad term.
Netorare = The love interest, friend, girlfriend, family member etc. get's stolen from the MC of the story.
(Sometimes they even use Reverse NTR for this when the female is getting her partner stolen which is still just normal netorare)

Netori = The MC is the one stealing the girl/boy back after manning up.
Netorase = The MC initiates the sharing of the girl which ends up in the usual cucking or sometimes threesomes or more

Very often cheating, swinging, swapping etc. get also added under the term & it get's harder to discern what's in or not.


I personally think that's a problem of tagging & failing to use proper descriptions, but i bet there are also just some people that hate NTR in general & rate it bad just because & you just can't do anything against it except maybe appeal it, if it's just 1 or 2 word reviews.


It can be a huge problem for people like me that absolute despises cucking & netorare stuff while really enjoying netori & it feels like searching through a needle in a heystack to find that 1 good netori thing in a pile full of NTR tagged shit & i bet that can often really frustrate some people too

Maybe that helps giving some insights

 

[Lupiscanis]

If you run into a game improperly tagged NETORARE and it does not have netorare - you are to report it for mistagging so that it gets updated properly.

I understand the sentiment but there's a difference between improper tagging and people's opinions on what netorare is differing from the site definition. People are obviously free to disagree on what the definition is, but if they were to try and get the moderators to de-tag a game because of that, it (for obvious reasons) won't work (and rightly so, since we need to have a singular definition and not everyone's opinion).

NTR tags are fairly broad and that's the issue. One person's definition of netorare might not be another's and the fact that we only have a single definition of netorare is always going to lead to issues (disregarding people who dislike netorare).

I personally think that's a problem of tagging & failing to use proper descriptions, but i bet there are also just some people that hate NTR in general & rate it bad just because & you just can't do anything against it except maybe appeal it, if it's just 1 or 2 word reviews.

This should hopefully be alleviated at least somewhat when the site rework happens.

It can be a huge problem for people like me that absolute despises cucking & netorare stuff while really enjoying netori & it feels like searching through a needle in a heystack to find that 1 good netori thing in a pile full of NTR tagged shit & i bet that can often really frustrate some people too

As Count Morado says, games that don't have any netorare shouldn't be getting tagged as netorare. If someone is using the netorare tag for an exclusively netori game, that's entirely incorrect and should be reported.