VN Ren'Py I’m making an anti-NTR game, Heartsworn Abyss. Would you like to try it? (Fully voiced, no AI)

[Jaike]

"Anti-NTR" suggests something like Harem Highlander, and it's normally used for bashing NTR, that stuff.

If you promote it as that, it'll probably attract more attention from people who hate NTR. It could easily cause a constant stream of negativity from people who accuse you of baiting. See the 1 star review this topic already got. I'd think of another description that fits the actual content better, subversion NTR or reversible NTR.

 

[anne O'nymous]

"Anti-NTR" suggests something like Harem Highlander, and it's normally used for bashing NTR, that stuff.

I agree. Personally seeing the thread title I thought that an Amazoness King minion had decided to make a game.

Perhaps that OP is right when saying that the term is used with the same meaning than "anti-heroes" in some Japanese boards. But in a place where the word "NTR" carry such strong hate coming from a part of the public, what OP clearly know, it looks like nothing more than a bait to starts as much drama as possible.

 

[Gone405]

I will take a look into this game sounds like a lot of fun! Keep up the good work! <3

 

[skyblueaster]

I will take a look into this game sounds like a lot of fun! Keep up the good work! <3

Thanks! <3
Let me know what you think. :3

 

[pirohiro]

Is my application of ”anti-NTR” correct? Maybe, maybe not. But I know what I mean, and you know what I mean. No point getting into an internet argument about it (especially if one isn’t even interested in the game in the first place).

If you call a restaurant anti-meat, and they serve steak, that is not a subversion of the genre. It is false advertisement.

 

[skyblueaster]

If you call a restaurant anti-meat, and they serve steak, that is not a subversion of the genre. It is false advertisement.

But you wouldn’t call a restaurant anti-meat, you’d call it vegan or vegetarian. This is acknowledged universally.
For NTR (and reverse NTR, anti-NTR, not NTR), this is much murkier. You can ask ten people and get several different answers. For lack of a better term, we both know what we are referring to.


Anti- as a prefix has many applications. In this scenario, I’m using the last definition.
But I really feel this is going off-track, so I won’t continue the semantics debate anymore.
Like every NTR thread, we are not even discussing the game, but just definitions now

 

[skyblueaster]

Hi, I've been aware of this game for a long time, but have never commented before.

My thoughts are that it is good you are attempting to make a game with high quality art and voice acting, but that it is a mistake to do this as your first game. It is better both practically and financially to create a game with less expensive assets to build your credentials, your audience and your income. Hangovercat for example made The Edge Of, a free and small NTR game and that propelled him into being able to make Promise Best Left Unkept with a massive patreon as a result.

I honestly think you will find more success with this game by pausing it, doing something else on a small scale and then resuming it.

However, I need to let you know that pandering to both vanilla and NTR likers is always a very bad idea. I know it feels like it makes sense to double dip, but the result is that neither will play your game. Vanilla lovers will see the heroine irrevocably tainted by NTR, while NTR lovers ultimately want to see the heroine succumb to corruption. The presence of other routes distract from this. The amount of audience you gain is significantly less than the amount you lose for trying to have both.

And since I am trying to help I guess I'll also add that this is not the definition of Anti-NTR. An Anti-NTR game is a pure vanilla game, just with the added element of the heroine being saved from a typical NTR scenario first. Maybe protag rescues heroine from a rape scenario or something. That kind of thing. The presence of actual NTR means by definition it cannot be Anti-NTR.

Thanks for the advice! Honestly, I can’t do shorter stories. Just don’t have the passion for it. Have done them at my old job, not a fan. I’ve always preferred sprawling worlds with extensive lore about them. I know HangOverCat is extremely successful, but it is difficult for me to put down characters (and come up with them) as easily. I am always thinking about my characters. Even if I were to write a short story, my mind would always be wandering, looking at what I want to do instead. It doesn’t help that I’m obsessive, so I would spend a lot of resources on the short story anyway, so it’s just better to make it a long one from the start and not squander the resources.

I’m more concerned about building than a tight community of NTR and semi-vanilla/NTR readers than trying to capture the casual market or go for big growth. As long as I get enough to build a quality game to my standards, I’m satisfied. Anything else is just gravy.

I have never courted pure vanilla fans, since those have always been the most hostile ones. I try not to pay them any attention; they are not the target audience, and they’ve rarely anything nice to say or contribute. If I was making a game for vanilla, I would call it vanilla.

It’s always been NTR fans first, then vanilla fans who are interested in NTR themes or looking to explore the genre without going off the deep end. I have a small group of vanilla fans who like to dabble in NTR on the Discord, and it makes me happy.

Essentially, those who like LiLiM games (avoidable NTR titles) are likely to enjoy my game as well.

 

[EasyMuthaFuckinE]

Thanks for the advice! Honestly, I can’t do shorter stories. Just don’t have the passion for it. Have done them at my old job, not a fan. I’ve always preferred sprawling worlds with extensive lore about them. I know HangOverCat is extremely successful, but it is difficult for me to put down characters (and come up with them) as easily. I am always thinking about my characters. Even if I were to write a short story, my mind would always be wandering, looking at what I want to do instead. It doesn’t help that I’m obsessive, so I would spend a lot of resources on the short story anyway, so it’s just better to make it a long one from the start and not squander the resources.

I’m more concerned about building than a tight community of NTR and semi-vanilla/NTR readers than trying to capture the casual market or go for big growth. As long as I get enough to build a quality game to my standards, I’m satisfied. Anything else is just gravy.

I have never courted pure vanilla fans, since those have always been the most hostile ones. I try not to pay them any attention; they are not the target audience, and they’ve rarely anything nice to say or contribute. If I was making a game for vanilla, I would call it vanilla.

It’s always been NTR fans first, then vanilla fans who are interested in NTR themes or looking to explore the genre without going off the deep end. I have a small group of vanilla fans who like to dabble in NTR on the Discord, and it makes me happy.

Essentially, those who like LiLiM games (avoidable NTR titles) are likely to enjoy my game as well.

Thanks for explaining your take on this. I probably would fall under the 2nd Category you mentioned(Vanilla fan who dabbles in NTR). For games like this which has both, i normally play both the routes. This is just like any other games you play, like a VN which has multiple endings and multiple routes, i try to complete the whole thing. So this is really fine, also i really don't mind if the content is 50-50 or things like that, if the story is good in both routes, then i will happily consume it without bitching, so kudos to you.

 

[the_elvish_piper]

Don't worry about the people complaining about anti-NTR.

If a restaurant said anti-meat, maybe it serves fake meat, like impossible meat? It's a different context anyways.

I took the words to mean something like "you're trying to combat against your girl getting stolen from you." So anti as in like fighting or an opposing force? Maybe standard NTR's always eventually steal your girl away, and this one is supposed to be where you're trying not to get cucked? The available version on this site kind of only touches the surface, so it's hard to tell how much branching and depth the vanilla vs cuck route have, but it seems to imply that the vanilla one is supposed to be more than just a side option.

 

[desmosome]

The confusion stems mostly from the fact that F95zone mouth-breathers that throw a fit at anything NTR has been labled as "Anti-NTR" people. To "anti-NTR" people, the mere existence of NTR is an existential threat that they are paradoxically drawn to. They flock to it like flies on shit and leave their facepalms and angry emojis. So in F95zone vernacular, anti-NTR has indeed come to denote the most pathetic impulses of the vanilla/harem/romance crowd.

On other sites (various AI chatbot sites being an example), Anti-NTR seems to mean scenarios where the player can prevent, punish, or convert the girl back in an NTR situation. It's not a genre that is meant for the thinnest skinned harem crowd that balk at the presence of a male NPC in any story. It's aimed at people that can tolerate NTR but strive to "beat" it within the game/story.

But since this is F95zone, billing your game as anti-NTR can only lead to... well, whatever is happening in this thread.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Can't wait for an 'anti-harem' game.
Oh and while we're at it how about 'anti-romance' and 'anti-dating sim' too, that'd be swell.

 

[Routa013]

However, I need to let you know that pandering to both vanilla and NTR likers is always a very bad idea. I know it feels like it makes sense to double dip, but the result is that neither will play your game. Vanilla lovers will see the heroine irrevocably tainted by NTR, while NTR lovers ultimately want to see the heroine succumb to corruption. The presence of other routes distract from this. The amount of audience you gain is significantly less than the amount you lose for trying to have both.

Seconding this. With the confusing title aside, your work looks promising but I hope you decide to go with full NTR instead of trying to appeal with the vanilla audience too by giving them an ntr-avoidable path. Most of the devs have attempted this ended up becoming disappointments after another (NTRMAN's recent work for example).

 

[skyblueaster]

Don't worry about the people complaining about anti-NTR.

If a restaurant said anti-meat, maybe it serves fake meat, like impossible meat? It's a different context anyways.

I took the words to mean something like "you're trying to combat against your girl getting stolen from you." So anti as in like fighting or an opposing force? Maybe standard NTR's always eventually steal your girl away, and this one is supposed to be where you're trying not to get cucked? The available version on this site kind of only touches the surface, so it's hard to tell how much branching and depth the vanilla vs cuck route have, but it seems to imply that the vanilla one is supposed to be more than just a side option.

Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. I’m glad you think the same way!
By the way, both “routes” (vanilla/NTR) are equally important and voice-acted! The major "branch" begins in Chapter 3.

Right now, Chapter 3 (A route) is fully voice-acted.
Please give it a try when you have time! (All released chapters can be played for just a $5 or $8 Patreon sub).

Chapter 3 (B route) has already been released too, but not yet voice-acted. This will be added in an upcoming update.

The confusion stems mostly from the fact that F95zone mouth-breathers that throw a fit at anything NTR has been labled as "Anti-NTR" people. To "anti-NTR" people, the mere existence of NTR is an existential threat that they are paradoxically drawn to. They flock to it like flies on shit and leave their facepalms and angry emojis. So in F95zone vernacular, anti-NTR has indeed come to denote the most pathetic impulses of the vanilla/harem/romance crowd.

On other sites (various AI chatbot sites being an example), Anti-NTR seems to mean scenarios where the player can prevent, punish, or convert the girl back in an NTR situation. It's not a genre that is meant for the thinnest skinned harem crowd that balk at the presence of a male NPC in any story. It's aimed at people that can tolerate NTR but strive to "beat" it within the game/story.

But since this is F95zone, billing your game as anti-NTR can only lead to... well, whatever is happening in this thread.

Spoiler: SPOILER

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But I don’t like revealing these facts as much. They’re major spoilers, and the story hasn’t advanced far enough yet to be doing those things.

Seconding this. With the confusing title aside, your work looks promising but I hope you decide to go with full NTR instead of trying to appeal with the vanilla audience too by giving them an ntr-avoidable path. Most of the devs have attempted this ended up becoming disappointments after another (NTRMAN's recent work for example).

NTR is still the main focus! Just because it’s avoidable doesn’t mean it’s put on the backburner!
90%+ of the H-scenes will be NTR.

I think a good chunk of “vanilla” players are actually fine with NTR, so long as the story doesn’t end in complete hopelessness and there’s a way to counteract it. This game would be for them!

Of course, hardcore NTR readers will still have a lot to enjoy, since they can choose the heroine’s choices… and not have her “win” against the ugly bastard, lol.

 

[Taurom]

I have a couple of questions in regards of this type of chaptered VNs, specially the ones that have avoidable NTR. When you play the first chapter of this kind of VNs are you usually lock in a path for the rest of the chapters? Does what you choose on the previous chapter doesn't affect much the next? Or are you able to jump between "paths" during each chapter? if yes what does usually determines an ending?

 

[SamuraiDice]

I agree. Personally seeing the thread title I thought that an Amazoness King minion had decided to make a game.

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time...along with Djkunn, Verazaberung and Hansdampf.

 

[ViperGts151]

Hello everyone,

I have heard many interesting discussions regarding NTR here. As someone who’s interested in NTR and vanilla, I’ve always wanted to try my hand at making at a visual novel.

Without further ado, I’d like to introduce my debut visual novel: Heartsworn Abyss!
My priorities are simple: quality, believable writing, cute art, and emotional voice acting!

Heartsworn Abyss is a survival-thriller VN set in the mysterious island-nation of Miyogawa. A major metallurgical breakthrough has brought the unassuming nation to the world stage, and a young couple suddenly find themselves thrust in the middle of a major feud between big countries and even bigger corporations.

~CHARACTERS~
Rei Tsukiyora: Proactively safeguard your girlfriend from evil bastards. Use dialog, smart threats, violence, whatever you have at your disposal.
Akari Hashimoto: Avoid capture from kidnappers and… “persistent gentlemen.” Use your wits and weapons on hand to ward off the myriad enemies coming your way.

For maximum immersion, both main characters have complete, hand-drawn character sprites with full voice-acting.

View attachment 4273600

Should you fail to protect Akari, an NTR scene will commence.
Both good and NTR routes are high-stakes, exciting affairs, so you won’t be missing out sticking to one path or the other.

I’ve released three exciting chapters so far!
If you’d like to have a taste, the first chapter is

You must be registered to see the links

Fully voiced and uncut!
(I suppose there’s an F95 up, but that’s not something I want to actively promote haha.)

View attachment 4273631

I want to continue providing players with high-quality content in a timely manner, so I created a

You must be registered to see the links

to help with costs.
All chapters are available there, along with a comprehensive guide and other spicy exclusives.
Please consider

You must be registered to see the links

if you enjoyed Heartsworn Abyss!

I’ll be here to answer any questions, so please let me know your thoughts!
It’s really hard to post adult games in public forums, so F95 and ULMF are all I have to let people know about my game.
… And yes, the NTR is avoidable!

 

[skyblueaster]

I have a couple of questions in regards of this type of chaptered VNs, specially the ones that have avoidable NTR. When you play the first chapter of this kind of VNs are you usually lock in a path for the rest of the chapters? Does what you choose on the previous chapter doesn't affect much the next? Or are you able to jump between "paths" during each chapter? if yes what does usually determines an ending?

Thanks for your interest!

Choices in previous chapters absolutely affect later chapters!
At various points in the story, your choices determine if Akari successfully resists the ugly bastards. Like if you made her misplace her stun gun, then tough luck.

As long as she is not fully corrupted, you can “swing her back” to the vanilla route, and vice versa. It’s pretty hard to stick 100% to the vanilla path, given how… formidable some of the UB are, but I think people like this challenge.

The plot is mostly similar (they enroll in an academy together and encounter various troubles), but the perspectives are totally different as she increasing falls to the ugly bastards. You can see her becoming more willing to cheat and lie to the protagonist, and scenes of her resisting will be gradually replaced by scenes of her falling to lust and depravity.

 

[Taurom]

Thanks for your interest!

Choices in previous chapters absolutely affect later chapters!
At various points in the story, your choices determine if Akari successfully resists the ugly bastards. Like if you made her misplace her stun gun, then tough luck.

As long as she is not fully corrupted, you can “swing her back” to the vanilla route, and vice versa. It’s pretty hard to stick 100% to the vanilla path, given how… formidable some of the UB are, but I think people like this challenge.

The plot is mostly similar (they enroll in an academy together and encounter various troubles), but the perspectives are totally different as she increasing falls to the ugly bastards. You can see her becoming more willing to cheat and lie to the protagonist, and scenes of her resisting will be gradually replaced by scenes of her falling to lust and depravity.

I know is hard to add pregnancy content in VNs, 'cause you can only added at some sort of "end", but, are you planning to add it in later chapters or not this time?

 

[skyblueaster]

I know is hard to add pregnancy content in VNs, 'cause you can only added at some sort of "end", but, are you planning to add it in later chapters or not this time?

As a central theme, I wouldn’t be able to add it. I don’t think I would be able to do pregnancy kinks justice.
Akari is young (18), and I feel having a child would interfere too much, since she’s attending college and also working at her father’s company.

As an “ending” for a route, sure, but weaving it into the plot is beyond my means at the moment. I wouldn’t be able to give it the proper respect.

 

[Taurom]

As a central theme, I wouldn’t be able to add it. I don’t think I would be able to do pregnancy kinks justice.
Akari is young (18), and I feel having a child would interfere too much, since she’s attending college and also working at her father’s company.

As an “ending” for a route, sure, but weaving it into the plot is beyond my means at the moment. I wouldn’t be able to give it the proper respect.

Aight, fair enough, I'll give it a try when it is completed, 'cause I'm very bad at replaying games xD