VN Ren'Py Imperial Chronicles [v0.11] [Lazy Monkey]

[GibboBtw]

She can't inherit the throne in anyway so killing her would be the worse possible move. And even if she manages to plot her son on the throne there is no evidence she'd more influence over him than Elis.

...You think that there is no evidence, that a woman would have more influence over her own young child vs her level of influence over her grown husband??...or what are you actually saying here...

Which is clearly the actual problem here. The only reason why you are saying she's disloyal is just because she actually has her own ambitions instead of just being a completely passive character like Aurora. That doesn't mean she's disloyal though you basically just decided the fact that she can think for her self automatically makes her untrust worthy. Aurora is a completely passive character. She has no real goals are motivation, she's essentially just there to look pretty and give Elis an official heir. that's one of the reason why I said her scenes seem rapey because as it really just seems like she's a pushover who just agrees if Elis is forceful enough even if she's not really interested.

So you equate "thinking for yourself" as just being ambitious? tf kinda logic is that. Idk how many times I have to say this, and we keep going in circles. I don't trust Isis because she is quite clearly of the two bridal options. The one that will be the most trouble and the most drama, and be the least trustworthy of the two. I don't know how many times we have to fucking go back and forth on this. You prefer Isis. I prefer Aurora.

Crusader kings is a terrible example, nobody acts like real people in the game and the computer isn't really complex enough to give the characters two many objectives. No npc in crusader kings acts like a real person, the ai is actually really really dumb. I also disagree that ambitionous people are automatically selfish and untrust worthy. I actually think that's a really weird thing to argue.

How about Game of Thrones then? Seeing as Isis could straight up pass as a version of Arianne Martell. Wouldn't be my pick for a wife if I was choosing for the Crown Prince...Idk about you. I'd rather pick the one who's going to give him peace and loyalty. Simple really.

She said she would only get rid of bastards that try to present a claim, there's no reason for her to search every peasant village for potential bastard.

So we've already have proof that she has said that she will get rid of bastards in one way. And you just believe her? Why couldn't she just be lying? as we've already established she's a schemer and a plotter. Not exactly unthinkable is it, that she would just go on a murderspree of bastards countrywide if she had enough power to do so.

It really just sounds more like you have trust issues tbh. You prefer submissive women because you don't trust people easily. You're imagine in your head of these characters is far far worse than anything they've demonstrated. Like I said even if Isis didn't care about Elis harming Elis for any reason is literally counter to her goals. But she says herself that she loves Elis and there is no real reason to doubt her on that

Trying to "psycho analyze" me or some shit off of my opinion of one character from this game is wild dude ngl.

And you're pretty much instantly wrong anyway, as Cass is easily in my top 2-3 of characters I like as LIs in this game, and she doesn't exactly have much in common with Aurora does she.

Shy is not a personality shy is just being to afraid to express yourself. People who are shy are only shy because of poor social skills.

I'm really beginning to question if you can read english or not dude. I have never said that "shy is a personality type" I said. "BEING SHY DOES NOT = HAVING NO PERSONALITY" Meaning, if you are shy. It doesn't just mean you therefore have NO PERSONALITY. I even then gave you several of her ACTUAL personality traits a few posts back. But you either didn't understand that, or just skipped them. As you can see here

I think you need to google the word "personality" my brother. Because she clearly shows quite a few personality traits. If you just get to know her. She's quite clearly kind, caring, bookish, dutiful, sweet, has a bit of a temper, is loyal to a fault, devoted, and modest just to name some.

Just because she's shy, and not the most assertive, ambitious or outwardly spoken like Isis is. Really does not mean she doesn't have a personality dude. That's weak.

We already know from the future scenes that she's clearly not going to kill Elis so I don't even understand why that's a question here. My problem here is you clearly aren't actually basing anything off evidence. You're basically just deciding anyone who actually thinks can't be trusted

No, you really don't have a point. My problems with her are not just because "she thinks" or some stupid reason like that. I mean what does that even mean honestly...

It's actually very simple, like Gicoo said.

If you want an ambitious risky partner, you pick Isis. If you want a safe partner you don't have to stress about, you chose Aurora.

Everyone seems to understand that of the two of them, Isis is 100% the more risky and dangerous one of the two. That COULD go badly for the MC. And that Aurora is the safer, kinder, partner. And overall, the one that will offer the least risk and drama. So therefore is the one that I personally would pick in real life, 9 times out of 10. And also the one I would pick for the MC in this game as well. Very simple.

 

[GarudoSCHE]

We already know from the future scenes that she's clearly not going to kill Elis so I don't even understand why that's a question here. My problem here is you clearly aren't actually basing anything off evidence. You're basically just deciding anyone who actually thinks can't be trusted

Well, maybe she won't kill him, that would look very suspicious, but she can make it so that he doesn't make decisions himself.
I'm not entirely sure that I understand how regency works in his Game, but I'll give crusader kings 3 as an example. Your character can get a state of incapacity, which deprives your character of the ability to do anything, and all the work falls on the regent.And since at the time of the game the child is not there, knowing Isis, we can assume that she can do something like that.
Also, I would not cite the future of MC as evidence, since we know that it is shown to us by the side of the conflict pursuing their own goals.I want to believe that Elis and Elin's child are on our side, but the renders are rather terrifying.

PS::And speaking of trust:

 

[Oninn]

Partner one is Isis. She hopes to gain power with marriage and use it for her own gain. In other hand Aurora is a wife. she don't seek for power to her gain. she tries to be supporting wife not partner. So if MC break bad, there is a potential that Isis f*ck over Mc for her benefit. Of course even Aurora can do that but that potential is much lesser than Isis.

 

[storm1051787]

...You think that there is no evidence, that a woman would have more influence over her own young child vs her level of influence over her grown husband??...or what are you actually saying here...

Again we already see last chapter that their son is an adult and Elis is still alive(which is one of the reasons why the whole she's going to murder you argument doesn't make any sense). And even then you think a child wouldn't disobey her or capable of being influenced by anyone else in court?

So you equate "thinking for yourself" as just being ambitious?

Yes I do. People who think for themselves have goals and ambitions desires. Aurora doesn't have any of that. Like I said she's just there to give Elis an official heir.

be the least trustworthy of the two. I don't know how many times we have to fucking go back and forth on this.

The problem is you've given literally no examples of why she would be the least trouble of the two while also accusing her of doing stuff or potentially doing stuff that's already counter to stuff she's already said in done. It's pretty clear your not basing your opinions on the character off the actual character, but instead just using her as a Cersei Lanister stand-in even though her character is pretty much nothing like Cersei

Trying to "psycho analyze" me or some shit off of my opinion of one character from this game is wild dude ngl.

Because you took me as me trying to literally analysis your real life opinions and not your opinions of fictional characters. In terms of fiction it's pretty clear you're simply just judging off first impressions rather than their actual actions and you judge Isis as untrusty worthy because she actually agendas and things she wants to happen instead of completely passive and submissive Aurora who is just there because her father sent her to marry you afraid to speak up or do anything for her self. She's just there to give elis children and is otherwise a boring unimportant character.


I'm not saying how you think of people in real life but it's pretty clear as far as fictional characters are considered you simply just don't trust anyone

I'm really beginning to question if you can read english or not dude. I have never said that "shy is a personality type" I said. "BEING SHY DOES NOT = HAVING NO PERSONALITY" Meaning, if you are shy. It doesn't just mean you therefore have NO PERSONALITY. I even then gave you several of her ACTUAL personality traits a few posts back. But you either didn't understand that, or just skipped them. As you can see here

She has no personality. Like I've said over and over again she basically just stands there bends over at the slightest push from any other character and is too

No, you really don't have a point.

Oh wow you said I don't have a point. Guess that settles that. You've still provided no real evidence or examples of why she's supposedly untrust worthy. Just supposedly claimed over and over again she was while also making it clear you never really did her route in the first place because you keep getting details wrong.

So we've already have proof that she has said that she will get rid of bastards in one way. And you just believe her? Why couldn't she just be lying? as we've already established she's a schemer and a plotter. Not exactly unthinkable is it, that she would just go on a murderspree of bastards countrywide if she had enough power to do so.

Why wouldn't I believe her. Literally what goal would that accomplish for her to just murder random peasants whose father could be anyone? Why? If she's scheming she has no reason to they literally have no claim. And again why is she untrustworthy? Saying "she has schemes" isn't enough, if we say that's enough than none of the characters except Lia and Elin are trust worthy. A character being a schemer doesn't mean she doesn't have Elis's best interest in mind or care about Elis, so far even in her schemes she's deferred to Elis instead of acting on her own.

How about Game of Thrones then? Seeing as Isis could straight up pass as a version of Arianne Martell. Wouldn't be my pick for a wife if I was choosing for the Crown Prince...Idk about you. I'd rather pick the one who's going to give him peace and loyalty. Simple really.

Again why wouldn't Isis be loyal. I keep asking you over and over and you have yet to give an answer other than "she has ambitions" but so does every other character in the game. So far the only thing Isis has been clear on is that she wants Elis to be Emperor. I don't really care if you think Aurora is the safe option it's more about why you already decided that isis is going to kill Elis and is acting against him. Every scene we've been show so far has shown the opposite

 

[storm1051787]

Well, maybe she won't kill him, that would look very suspicious, but she can make it so that he doesn't make decisions himself.
I'm not entirely sure that I understand how regency works in his Game, but I'll give crusader kings 3 as an example. Your character can get a state of incapacity, which deprives your character of the ability to do anything, and all the work falls on the regent.And since at the time of the game the child is not there, knowing Isis, we can assume that she can do something like that.
Also, I would not cite the future of MC as evidence, since we know that it is shown to us by the side of the conflict pursuing their own goals.I want to believe that Elis and Elin's child are on our side, but the renders are rather terrifying.

PS::And speaking of trust:
View attachment 5201976

In the future scenes we already know Elis goes away on trips for seemly diplomacy so he's clearly capable of making his own decisions. Frankly so far nobody has given a good reason not to trust Isis. I understand being wary. I don't understand insisting over and over that she's going to kill Elis in her sleep with literally no evidence pointng towards that and ample counter evidence to that idea

 

[Bombmaster]

storm1051787
There is a bias if any Female character is cruel and can do evil, Slutty is fine and accepted. but how dare subterfuge and having own agendas. People are used to having Lis that just coddle the protagonist and dont know where the bodies are buried, A shame.

 

[Gicoo]

Another reason why I can't give the Isis/Aurora comparison as much weigh is that both are used underwhelmingly in the story. They are forced on the MC due arranged marriage, instead of coming to him organically and naturally. As outsiders, they have no knowledge and effect on the internal family politics, which the game tends to focus on. And regarding romances, they are fairly impersonal and secondary to the four incest choices, the main love interests in the game.

Could change if MC travels and interacts with the North and South, but as of now, they are very much trophy wife's and breeding machines in every aspect.

It's the old tale of my main discontent with the game, that it gives not so much the illusion of choice, but the illusion of consequences and danger. The only one being able to ruin lives is almost always MC. People praise the game with the Game of Thrones comparison, a ruthless brutal political plot of backstabbing and betrayal, but rarely anyone dies outside of MCs control. If he refuses to work with Cass, she very much asks MC to kill her and at worst she imprisons MC, which is ultimately an inconsequential punishment. Iris also talks a big game, but it can only unfold if MC gives her permission to. Man, what a dangerous and unpredictable character indeed.

The game would take the player, used by power fantasy harem games with effectively no opposition, out of their comfort zone, if the NPCs would actually have agency.

Say, Iris always kills Cass if MC decided to marry her and gets imprisoned. A bunch of people would seethe, but wouldn't that give your choice weight and the NPCs give agency? And instead of losing your mind over it, players can either take the loss or try again and marry Aurora or don't get imprisoned on the next run. That would be more in line with making choices that matter and interacting with characters that make decisions not entirely in our control.

But meh, who wants to be challenged, face difficulties and possibly LOSE in a video game???

 

[GibboBtw]

Again we already see last chapter that their son is an adult and Elis is still alive(which is one of the reasons why the whole she's going to murder you argument doesn't make any sense). And even then you think a child wouldn't disobey her or capable of being influenced by anyone else in court?

Ah okay, we saw it in a vision. So it MUST be true then, seems legit...

The problem is you've given literally no examples of why she would be the least trouble of the two while also accusing her of doing stuff or potentially doing stuff that's already counter to stuff she's already said in done. It's pretty clear your basing your opinions on the character off the actual character, but instead just using her as a Cersei Lanister stand-in even though her character is pretty much nothing like Cersei

How can you honestly even debate that Isis would be less trouble or give less drama. Than fucking Aurora...There is just no way

Which one of them likes to fuck with people, and scheme in her own free time, JUST to alleviate some of her own boredom?? Or how about threatening to kill any bastard that present a problem to her? Yeah, she's for sure not going to be more trouble just there alone than the other one...Right?

Because you took me as me trying to literally analysis your real life opinions and not your opinions of fictional characters. In terms of fiction it's pretty clear you're simply just judging off first impressions rather than their actual actions and you judge Isis as untrusty worthy because she actually agendas and things she wants to happen instead of completely passive and submissive Aurora who is just there because her father sent her to marry you afraid to speak up or do anything for her self. She's just there to give elis children and is otherwise a boring unimportant character.

Well yes, isn't that the whole point of that arc with both of the brides. You get a first impression of them, and then you spend some time with both of them. And then you have to pick. And IMO, Isis raises too many red flags in those moments alone, The being snappy with Aurora at breakfast (needing to start drama), or just look at Ahara's reaction to her as soon as she finds out who she is...what with the hyperventilating and complete panic at the thought of being discovered after her family was killed by Isis's.

I'm not saying how you think of people in real life but it's pretty clear as far as fictional characters are considered you simply just don't trust anyone

Again, you're basing that off my mistrust of this one character?? How exactly?? I trust enough characters in this game at the moment. And just because I distrust Isis and Alaina doesn't mean I "dont trust anyone" that's the dumbest thing I've heard. I'm just quite clearly, more distrusting and wary of people whom are quite clearly "plotters and schemers" and for good reason.

She has no personality. Like I've said over and over again she basically just stands there bends over at the slightest push from any other character and is too

Ah fuck it. Whatever you say dude. I've repeatedly proven this wrong, and even given you personality traits she possesses. But if it makes it easier for you to just pretend she has no personality so you can act like she's a worse choice, then you do what you want bro. I'm not gonna keep wasting time trying to show you that you're wrong about her. When you just keep skipping over everything I've said about the topic.

Oh wow you said I don't have a point. Guess that settles that. You've still provided no real evidence or examples of why she's supposedly untrust worthy. Just supposedly claimed over and over again she was while also making it clear you never really did her route in the first place because you keep getting details wrong.

Her own admissions that she will have your bastards killed, Ahara's reaction to hearing her family name, and telling you that they're all monsters who had her family killed. The fact that she likes to scheme and plot to cure her own boredom.

Spoiler: As shown here

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

No evidence at all here as to why some might find her untrustworthy right?... The fact is, she's fucking WALKING DRAMA. Who tf wants that honestly...Especially when you have a lovely, kind and caring alternative. RIGHT THERE...

Again why wouldn't Isis be loyal. I keep asking you over and over and you have yet to give an answer other than "she has ambitions" but so does every other character in the game. So far the only thing Isis has been clear on is that she wants Elis to be Emperor. I don't really care if you think Aurora is the safe option it's more about why you already decided that isis is going to kill Elis and is acting against him. Every scene we've been show so far has shown the opposite

She could end up being loyal. But because I've watched/played enough media set in this kind of fantasy/medieval-esc setting. And the one recurring thing I've learnt is.

Don't. Trust. The intrigue type characters. At least not ever fully.

You never know what kind of bullshit they could be cooking up.

So let me put it this way. Are you honestly going to tell me, that if this situation was real. And you were Elis. With no MC plot armour, or any idea how anything was going to end up. And no guarantee that every choice would work out. That you would choose Isis for being the better pick for your wife?

storm1051787
There is a bias if any Female character is cruel and can do evil, Slutty is fine and accepted. but how dare subterfuge and having own agendas. People are used to having Lis that just coddle the protagonist and dont know where the bodies are buried, A shame.

Well, I can't speak for others.

But my disdain and dislike for "subterfuge and plotting" isn't just bound to women.

If this game had a Littlefinger type character or a Varys. You can bet your arse I would watching those mfers like a hawk, treating them the same as I do with Alaina. And as soon as they fuck around and I could murk their asses. Dead.

 

[Filipis]

Another reason why I can't give the Isis/Aurora comparison as much weigh is that both are used underwhelmingly in the story. They are forced on the MC due arranged marriage, instead of coming to him organically and naturally. As outsiders, they have no knowledge and effect on the internal family politics, which the game tends to focus on. And regarding romances, they are fairly impersonal and secondary to the four incest choices, the main love interests in the game.

Could change if MC travels and interacts with the North and South, but as of now, they are very much trophy wife's and breeding machines in every aspect.

It's the old tale of my main discontent with the game, that it gives not so much the illusion of choice, but the illusion of consequences and danger. The only one being able to ruin lives is almost always MC. People praise the game with the Game of Thrones comparison, a ruthless brutal political plot of backstabbing and betrayal, but rarely anyone dies outside of MCs control. If he refuses to work with Cass, she very much asks MC to kill her and at worst she imprisons MC, which is ultimately an inconsequential punishment. Iris also talks a big game, but it can only unfold if MC gives her permission to. Man, what a dangerous and unpredictable character indeed.

The game would take the player, used by power fantasy harem games with effectively no opposition, out of their comfort zone, if the NPCs would actually have agency.

Say, Iris always kills Cass if MC decided to marry her and gets imprisoned. A bunch of people would seethe, but wouldn't that give your choice weight and the NPCs give agency? And instead of losing your mind over it, players can either take the loss or try again and marry Aurora or don't get imprisoned on the next run. That would be more in line with making choices that matter and interacting with characters that make decisions not entirely in our control.

But meh, who wants to be challenged, face difficulties and possibly LOSE in a video game???

This is a very astute observation about the game. And you are right, the game is rife with choices, but there are no terrible consequences just yet - and that could be mainly because accounting for them could make the game 'un-developable'.

The example with Isis poisoning Cass is actually a fantastic idea I might incorporate into my IC: Definitive Edition remake, but you are right on the money that it would make a LOT of players uncomfortable.

I think Isis/Aurora stuff will become more important as time goes on, but it can never be too important, as they represent and require drastically different scenarios to fully explore (one is North, the other South) - imagine if LM decides to make an update solely based on MC visiting the North/South areas of the Continent... that would be a dangerous precedent I would not be comfortable with (an update dedicated only to one path).

Do you recall the fiasco of the Coup update? If you avoided the Coup entirely, you were shit out of luck and didn't get to play a whole-ass update. I don't want that to happen to anybody ever again.

It may result in a more "sterile" environment in the end, but such is the nature of following along with the development of the game.

 

[7_lJzWy3XxoEyow7]

40%
View attachment 5199021

I love that belly ... so much
But who is this ... its not on my path ^^

 

[storm1051787]

Ah okay, we saw it in a vision. So it MUST be true then, seems legit...

Makes more sense than suggesting that she's going to try to murder us because of a character from a completely different series

How can you honestly even debate that Isis would be less trouble or give less drama. Than fucking Aurora...There is just no way

Which one of them likes to fuck with people, and scheme in her own free time, JUST to alleviate some of her own boredom??

Neither of them. That's my point. The only time we've actually seen Isis do any scheming is when Elis asks her to kill Cass. Other than that all she's done is tell Elis that she wants to make him Emeperor and will garuntee that their child will be heir to the south inspite of her older brothers. And it's not that I'm debating that Isis will have less drama than Aurora it's that we don't have any real evidence that Isis is going to cause any drama in the first place.

Well yes, isn't that the whole point of that arc with both of the brides. You get a first impression of them, and then you spend some time with both of them. And then you have to pick. And IMO, Isis raises too many red flags in those moments alone, The being snappy with Aurora at breakfast (needing to start drama), or just look at Ahara's reaction to her as soon as she finds out who she is...what with the hyperventilating and complete panic at the thought of being discovered after her family was killed by Isis's.

Ahara reaction is because of her family being ruthless and not because of her personally. Elis even points this out and mentions that Isis would have been only a child when talking about when this happens. This would be like another character being scared of Elis just beceause of his grandfather.

Her own admissions that she will have your bastards killed, Ahara's reaction to hearing her family name, and telling you that they're all monsters who had her family killed. The fact that she likes to scheme and plot to cure her own boredom.

Again Ahara reaction to her family is a pretty faulty argument. She doesn't know Isis personally and Isis was to young to have done anything. There is also way more reasons to try to kill the old regime than there would be to kill random peasants who might be the king's bastard. If anything the fact that Isis knew about Ahara and didn't really care is evidence against your point. Isis also mentions that Ahara's family was exteremly cruel and that the peasants were ready to beat them to death and torture them.

So let me put it this way. Are you honestly going to tell me, that if this situation was real. And you were Elis. With no MC plot armour, or any idea how anything was going to end up. And no guarantee that every choice would work out. That you would choose Isis for being the better pick for your wife?

There's no garuntee that either choose would work out, but I have literally no reason to think Isis is going to betray them and you haven't provided any evidence either. You just keep claiming she can't because you said she reminds you again, of different characters from different franchises. There is no real reason to trust Aurora either or really anyone around you, Aurora's father fought against Elis's grandfather and only agree to the marriage because all his sons died.

She could end up being loyal. But because I've watched/played enough media set in this kind of fantasy/medieval-esc setting. And the one recurring thing I've learnt is.

I've seen enough fantasy mideval characters to argue that theres not enough evidence either way. There as just as many intrigue focused character who would murder anyone if it benifits the protagonist as there are ones who can backstab them. Caliming that Isis is the later based on no real evidence but vibes is exteremly weak.

Ah fuck it. Whatever you say dude. I've repeatedly proven this wrong, and even given you personality traits she possesses. But if it makes it easier for you to just pretend she has no personality so you can act like she's a worse choice, then you do what you want bro. I'm not gonna keep wasting time trying to show you that you're wrong about her. When you just keep skipping over everything I've said about the topic.

You've never proven me wrong. You just claim you disagree. I don't need to pretend she has no personality so that she's the worse choice, the writing of her character simply just makes her the worse choice. Like I said she's boring she has no agency and she's just there to look pretty and birth children.

Spoiler: As shown here

I'll be honest. I have zero clue how you even got that scene. I did not get that scene at all. Elis neither accuses her of scheming or anything. They just start talking about the trip home, the baby, she gives him a blow job and then bed then tells elis she's going to do everythng she can to help him.

The being snappy with Aurora at breakfast (needing to start drama)

I wouldn't say at all she's starting drama. In my opinion "starting drama" means forcing people to pick fights with Elis or the rest of his family. The only thing that it looked like to me is that she simply decided to challenge her rival

Again, you're basing that off my mistrust of this one character?? How exactly?? I trust enough characters in this game at the moment.

I'm basing it off the fact we have no evidence that Elis is planning to betray elis while we have multiple scenes where she says she's going to help him and does things for the sake of his benifit. So yes I'm saying you're basing this off your mistrust of the character. We have no evidence for what you claim but agian you keep claiming it because you think she reminds you of different characters. Your conrad example is the best example because she does literally the exact opposite in the actual game as what you claim she'd do. So in that case it seems more like baseless paranoia.

 

[dkatryl]

Man, the Aurora vs Isis fans getting after it since I last checked the thread!

I prefer Aurora myself, but i can see why others prefer Isis.

It's kinda like Triss vs Yennifer from W3. I prefer Triss, but I can see why some prefer Yenn. (I only played the games, so the book lore doesng factor in)

 

[GibboBtw]

Okay, I have decided. That you are quite possibly, the most brick wall human being that I've ever chatted to in my life, on this website. You might even be able to give Stanford and Sombrero a run for their money honestly!

But I'm not going to waste anymore time on this with you. You ignore everything I say, and then keep repeating the same shit back to me 20x like a broken record, even when I answer you.

I'll be honest. I have zero clue how you even got that scene. I did not get that scene at all. Elis neither accuses her of scheming or anything. They just start talking about the trip home, the baby, she gives him a blow job and then bed then tells elis she's going to do everythng she can to help him.

And add on the fact that you don't even know the scenes of the woman you're going so hard to bat for. it's actually crazy that I've wasted the time I already have on you. I'm just going to end this here, and let others read and decide who made more sense and who didn't.

 

[storm1051787]

, I have decided. That you are quite possibly, the most brick wall human being that I've ever chatted to in my life, on this website. You might even be able to give Stanford and Sombrero a run for their money honestly!

But I'm not going to waste anymore time on this with you. You ignore everything I say, and then keep repeating the same shit back to me 20x like a broken record, even when I answer you.

If it sounds like in relating the same stuff back and over then it's probably because at least half of all your replies are the exact same as what you just said without you really providing evidence or examples. But I addressed everything you said. Even new stuff like the one sided ahara argument whole also ignoring what Elis and Isis both say about it(Isis was to young to be involved and her family killed Ahara because the peasant class wanted them dead) I did not ignore you you disagree and got annoyed because I didn't bend over backwards agreeing with you . The main thing I asked(what evidence is there she's plotting against Elis) you never provided

And add on the fact that you don't even know the scenes of the woman you're going so hard to bat for. it's actually crazy that I've wasted the time I already have on you. I'm just going to end this here, and let others read and decide who made more sense and who didn't.

This is a game with multiple variables. I replayed the scene and that moment never popped up so I asked what variables you used to get that since unlike you I'm actually arguing in good faith. I asked how you got the scene so I could at least get a better understanding of the content as in my runs she just swears she's going to help Elis. You've already dismissed Aurora fear route so I don't know why you are dismissing route differences here

 

[Alan Dalles]

Spoiler: As shown here

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I I asked how you got the scene so I could at least get a better understanding of the content as in my runs she just swears she's going to help Elis.

If I remember correctly, this scene is only for Bookworm path (letters for clan's relatives on southern language with changed detailes - trust exercise)

 

[Craudiao]

But bro, her best interest is keeping Elis strong and alive, Why would she betray him?

On her path she lost ther virginity and is expecting a child, there is no better route than Elis.
Every option is worse than stick with him.

Now, you always have to weigh how fragile the throne is with the MC...
After all, he's the result of an elven conspiracy against the throne. Conrad and Cass have a greater claim to the throne than he does...
So, depending on how everything comes to light and how the people take it, staying with the MC is probably the most dangerous and unstable place...

I see Aurora sinking along with the MC and Isis leaving in a "hopeless" situation.

 

[FalconLover420]

I'm going to put my two cents on the Iris/Aurora debate.
I think both of them are loyal to elis albeit with different methods.

Isis:
Isis works in the shadows whether its keeping elis safe from plots or dirtying her hands if her family is in danger as she was raised in an intrigue court. Plus she mentions that she gave her virginity to Elis (normally an ambitious woman would have lost it already).
Yes, we do get the dialogue about killing Elis's bastards because historically bastards have always been a threat to the true born children for dissatisfied nobles to rally behind. Another one that is used against Isis is the dialogue with the daughter, but we get nothing that implies what she says and is just provoking her mother plus the children are being raised with intrigue and the son with martial/intrigue.

Aurora:
She is the supporting wife and doesn't involve herself in intrigue basically from what we gather, her father ruled with martial/charisma as she herself is doing the same except more of the charisma/learning aspect. She was raised with the idea that women raise children and support the husband, an ideal housewife. "well she is boring" arguments, ehh doubt it, remember she is supporting her husband with children and representing him at court and not ruling in the shadows.

Lets take a look at her children tho, she has shown some form of favoritism from the future scenes but that is to be expected HOWEVER the siblings are extremely close to each other and the son and daughter are knowledgable/martial oriented.

So what I am getting at is that both women have different ways to express loyalty but at the end of the day, they are loyal to their husband first and foremost that they are willing to either kill for their families or rally their supporters (its been said that Aurora's guards where loyal to keep her safe during the coup).

 

[claus001]

Isis:
Isis works in the shadows whether its keeping elis safe from plots or dirtying her hands if her family is in danger as she was raised in an intrigue court. Plus she mentions that she gave her virginity to Elis (normally an ambitious woman would have lost it already).
Yes, we do get the dialogue about killing Elis's bastards because historically bastards have always been a threat to the true born children for dissatisfied nobles to rally behind. Another one that is used against Isis is the dialogue with the daughter, but we get nothing that implies what she says and is just provoking her mother plus the children are being raised with intrigue and the son with martial/intrigue.

To be fair, Isis is loyal, but then game counts Isis_dominance (misspelled) point meaning when she thinks MC is cuck enough she will make her move I just wonder how will she react to incest (when exposed). Either she will reject is completely or accept it 120% percent because of some ancient blood demon southern tradition.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

To be fair, Isis is loyal, but then game counts Isis_dominance (misspelled) point meaning when she thinks MC is cuck enough she will make her move I just wonder how will she react to incest (when exposed). Either she will reject is completely or accept it 120% percent because of some ancient blood demon southern tradition.

Isis probably doesn't care. Incest might even be some what common in the South with how many kids some of them have. I think Isis dad had a shit ton of kids, for example. It would be hard not to sleep with your half sisters or cousins. Especially if they also breed like crazy too.

Not to mention, Isis also doesn't have to worry about kids born from incest. Because those kids can never be acknowledged. Especially Sera's in particular. She would definitely have to not go in public when she start showing. Because everyone will know it's not the King's. Elin on the other hand has the cover of Lockhart. But in both cases, incest likely wouldn't bother Isis. Neither would the kids born from it.

That's why I don't think Isis reaction will be particularly interesting to see. Aurora on the other hand?

 

[Filipis]

Isis probably doesn't care. Incest might even be some what common in the South with how many kids some of them have. I think Isis dad had a shit ton of kids, for example. It would be hard not to sleep with your half sisters or cousins. Especially if they also breed like crazy too.

Not to mention, Isis also doesn't have to worry about kids born from incest. Because those kids can never be acknowledged. Especially Sera's in particular. She would definitely have to not go in public when she start showing. Because everyone will know it's not the King's. Elin on the other hand has the cover of Lockhart. But in both cases, incest likely wouldn't bother Isis. Neither would the kids born from it.

That's why I don't think Isis reaction will be particularly interesting to see. Aurora on the other hand?

This is an interesting take on Isis/Aurora and their reaction to incest... and you might just be right on the money.

Isis won't care about any bastards born from incest, as there isn't a lord alive that would support their claim to the throne - if anything, they might just rebel against the whole ordeal; it is in MC's & Isis' best interest to keep those bastards a secret.

Aurora might be the one to go ballistic, and even become disgusted with MC when she finds out (considering her being very religious)

Especially Sera's in particular. She would definitely have to not go in public when she start showing. Because everyone will know it's not the King's.

This is why Seraphina's and Lia's pregnancies will sound a lot of alarms - and I wonder exactly how LM plans to handle it.

On one hand, there are paths where MC doesn't romance them at all - so they don't end up pregnant (Elin & Lia's pregnancies are still optional, romance or not - but romancing Seraphina seems will always result in her pregnancy), so there's no problem there.

But - if you do get them pregnant - it should be a big fucking deal. And that means we should have two very different story paths going forward, because how the hell do Seraphina and Lia hide their pregnancies? LM is going to have to get very creative to avoid a huge divergence in the story.