Defiant Explorer

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First, sort of a side note. Regarding the “average woman” and “too weak” and this whole thing. As an author, I declare with all responsibility - if I need it for a story, Selene will handle archery. These references are probably due to the fact that in some of their dialogue, some NPC doesn't take her seriously in that sense, and some even mock her. Don't think this is some "author's message", like, Selene is a woman, so she can't fight, blah blah blah. The reactions of these characters are only that which could have come from them. No more, no less. I mean, none of them see women as fighters, so this reaction is entirely expected.

As for some hypothetical situation where Selene has to shoot someone, how would I implement it in the game? Well, let's try to model it. Let's say Selene is in danger and someone evil (or something toothy and clawed) is running at her, and she's holding a bow. Well. There will most likely be several consecutive checks here.

The first is Vigor, to see if she can draw the bowstring. Because if she can't, the likely course of action is to drop the bow and run away (Agility check?) or give up and hope for the best. If Selene can draw the bowstring, she should shoot. It's probably Perception check. Did she hit or not? If she missed, we're back to the run/surrender fork. If she hit, is the target down or do we need a second shot?

In general, Willpower or Mind (suppressing fear or calming oneself down) can also be useful in this type of situation. Agility is unlikely to be of much use in the shooting process itself, but it can help, for example, to dodge (from icoming blow, a counter-shot, etc.). Even Intrigue can play a role, like, why aim for the head when you can hit between the legs? Dirty, but effective.

As you can see, IE's role-playing system is quite supportive of creating these kinds of dangerous, combat situations, and even with different outcomes. I don't even need the combat system as a separate mechanic for that. The problem here is rather that the plot is (so far) rather socially oriented. I'm not really interested in creating another "battle fantasy" where a lone hero wanders the land and kills things. Nevertheless, this in no way precludes modeling dangerous or even really combat situations.
 

Defiant Explorer

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I imagine it might come into play more if Selene wanted to do something like (say, to keep distance from the toothy danger) which would require some coordination, so she doesn't end up tripping over her own feet. :whistle:
Well, yeah, if you're shooting on the move, then Agility will come in handy, especially since "coordination" is listed in its in-game description. There I just imagined a "standing archer - approaching target" situation, where there is not so much space for an Agility check by itself.
 

damnedfrog

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When I spoke of the myth of bows used by weak person, because presumably, shooting a bow require more agility/coordination/perception, while wielding a sword will primary require strength.
So, the trope of the weak woman with a bow, and the mighty man with a sword.
Here is the myth.

In fact, shooting with a bow require quite a lot of strength. You still need agility/coordination/perception to aim, but first, you need enough strength to stringing the bow...
At the opposite, sword are really not as heavy as often pictured in games/movies.
A typical one handed sword weight 1-2kg, and a two handed greatsword 2-3kg.
I never used a sword, but I wouldn't be surprise that it require more agility/coordination than strength to use it effectively.

So, the big muscular barbarian should be the one who shoots the bow, and the delicate young woman should be the one wielding the greatsword.
Wait a minute... Yuturna is already the archer... Selene just need to find that damned greatsword! :D
 

ScoobysFatHead

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Wouldn't a bow, in a setting with bronze age tech, be a horrible choice for a teenage girl? We're talking a non-compound piece of wood of a comparable density/flexibility to yew. If you want to use that with enough force to kill someone, our poor Selene wouldn't be able to manage the draw-weight. Not to mention protect the string and arrows against exposure given her current lack of resources.
I fully admit that a narrow bronze dagger, maybe hidden up a sleeve (if we even get clothes again), would be a good choice. Preferably if you can smear the blade with dino venom so you only need to scratch a would-be rapist before he is paralyzed.

Otherwise my money would be on a spear. Comparably cheap, easy to craft and use untrained compared to other options. And much safer for a physically weaker combatant like Selene.

Edit: Or the dev. could introduce more alchemical items. Like maybe a sleeping powder or some hallucinogenic spores you can throw in the face of an enemy to neutralize them. It's not DnD, they don't have any loot or xp so no reason to kill everything. Just get away with your modesty intact (lol, too late).
Just throwing options out, honnestly she could prob wield a short sword etc she is strong enough for some weapons, all we are missing is training, also Ig that mostly depends on where you go with stats etc oh and more on the stat part, what would be the average strength etc for wielding a bow stat wise, if 10 is the max we can get so far what is the males default or max, guessing 20 for max? and the default for them maybe 10 for a healthy average adult idk, since everyone in that fucker is strong as shit
 
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ScoobysFatHead

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Also Im not saying some shit like we are running around killing people etc, im all for being a little actress fuck it ig, but I feel like we should atleast have the option to learn some warfare so its there to defend ourselves, I mean say you are in selenes shoes, how many times can you realistically rely on just running etc, gotta learn as much as she can to survive these brutes, lemme just be an an actress to can defend against the fuckers who get to touchy, ofc running will be alot of it, but if she was ever cornered if I was in her shoes I'd want to know a thing or 2 about fighting
 
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DarthSion98

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Crossbows, if I'm not mistaken, were mentioned as far back as the Three Kingdoms (China). And that's before our era. And not just crossbows, but also multi-shot crossbows capable of firing several times.
According to Chinese historical texts, repeating crossbows were often used by .

Also, why has no one mentioned blowguns and blowdarts yet? These would be perfect stealth weapons; easy to make, easy to conceal, easy to use.
 

Defiant Explorer

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Oh, my. I hope you aren't expecting Selene in the next episode to shoot from the hip with a crossbow in one hand, swinging a great sword in the other, and carrying an ancient master's katana behind her back. And all accompanied by the soundtrack of a warrior princess. This is still just a discussion of some lore-friendly weapons Selene could use, right?

Although, maybe I should really add a scene in the future where Selene gets some kind of killing thing in her naughty hands. What could possibly go wrong?
 

damnedfrog

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Also Im not saying some shit like we are running around killing people etc, im all for being a little actress fuck it ig, but I feel like we should atleast have the option to learn some warfare so its there to defend ourselves, I mean say you are in selenes shoes, how many times can you realistically rely on just running etc, gotta learn as much as she can to survive these brutes, lemme just be an an actress to can defend against the fuckers who get to touchy, ofc running will be alot of it, but if she was ever cornered if I was in her shoes I'd want to know a thing or 2 about fighting
Running from danger is what women have done throughout almost all of our history.
They generally never received any military training, not even self-defense training.
Surely, you can find some exceptions. But they will be that. Exception.

Of course, Inner Empire is not set on our own world, so Defiant Explorer could decide that in this world, women can get some martial training.
But I think it won't fit with Selene.
Even if would like to play a badass girl that can beat any foe.
 

damnedfrog

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Oh, my. I hope you aren't expecting Selene in the next episode to shoot from the hip with a crossbow in one hand, swinging a great sword in the other, and carrying an ancient master's katana behind her back. And all accompanied by the soundtrack of a warrior princess. This is still just a discussion of some lore-friendly weapons Selene could use, right?
Of course not.
I'm expecting that in the next episode, Selene will shoot a machine-gun from the hip with one hand, a flamethrower in the other, and carrying a rocket launcher behind her back.

Although, maybe I should really add a scene in the future where Selene gets some kind of killing thing in her naughty hands. What could possibly go wrong?
Depend. A chicken should not be a major treat :)
 

Defiant Explorer

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Just throwing options out, honnestly she could prob wield a short sword etc she is strong enough for some weapons, all we are missing is training, also Ig that mostly depends on where you go with stats etc oh and more on the stat part, what would be the average strength etc for wielding a bow stat wise, if 10 is the max we can get so far what is the males default or max, guessing 20 for max? and the default for them maybe 10 for a healthy average adult idk, since everyone in that fucker is strong as shit
Mmm, no. IE's role system is protagonist-centered, not some generic dimension for all creatures in the world where humans have a strength of 10, elves have 8, and ogres have 25. That is, attributes reflect the individual development of the main character, hence why they are initially placed at 0. They are more like aspects of personal development, strengths and weaknesses. So, for example, Selene, even with Vigor 10, can't beat Yuturna in arm wrestling by default. This is why there is no actionable Vigor check in one of the optional scenes when Yuturna carries a kicking Selene on his shoulder away. He's just too big and strong. And Selene, even at the peak of her physical abilities, can't really do anything until he puts her back on her feet. Which, however, does not prevent her from showing some temper.
 

kaorok

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While I find this discussion about ancient weaponry fascinating, how much longer until Selene gets to climb the mountain of a man?
 
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Fwoosh

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All this talk of bows being too tuff for weedy girl Selene to use when Crossbows are an option instead smh.
 

whowhawhy

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All this talk of bows being too tuff for weedy girl Selene to use when Crossbows are an option instead smh.
different types of crossbows got mentions too, but a spare bow and potentially a few spare melee weapons are already in the possession of the troupe. and as games teach us, we'd need at least two two-handed crossbows and a smaller hand one to get around reload time mechanics, and selene's bag is too small to fit them there.


random memery:
they have no control over the protagonist's physical desire, her fears, her level of pain, etc.
badurology.jpg

also, is this an easter egg?
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 

ffive

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All this talk of bows being too tuff for weedy girl Selene to use when Crossbows are an option instead smh.
Since these are ancient crossbows, you'd still need to draw them just like a bow without mechanical assistance. You get the benefit of then not having to maintain that draw manually while aiming, but there's still the requirement of having enough strength in the first place.
 
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