Interested in game development with no experience.

[Winterfire]

Like I said, it's a personal choice whether you trust them enough to use their program. I use VSCodium over Visual Studio when making Ren'py games to strip all the telemetry out.

If you are so untrustful, as I have said in a previous discussion when the unity news had just come out, simply restrict the internet access. Many softwares use Telemetry.

My point stands: Godot (50MB) is still smaller and lighter than Unity (1GB) yet it's still very capable for 2D games despite it's small size.

An engine's size doesn't matter, a blank project size does, which I assume is much smaller than Unity anyways, which makes it a good point I agree with.
In fact, it is kind of what held me back from making something with Unreal so far (aside from learning a whole new engine), an unreal blank project is much bigger than Unity's.

However, Ren'Py and RPGM are light as well... If he wants to make a 2D RPG, he may as well go for the easiest option, as for Ren'Py, if he needs to learn his first language, Python is a good option.
While it is a Visual Novel Engine, you can make stuff like this: https://f95zone.to/threads/sakura-dungeon-v1-0-5-winged-cloud.997/
I had to use Unity to make my Dungeon Crawler because I do not know Python, but Ren'Py would have been a good option if I did.

At the end choosing the right Game Engine is part of designing the game, suggesting general purpose engines is always a safe guess, but say he wanted to have a Visual Novel Hybrid (like my game), then he'd either need to choose between remaking all the Ren'Py features in Godot or implementing a battle system on Ren'Py.

 

[MidnightArrow]

I just created a Godot project today with the 4.0 beta. It's 7.5 megabytes. 99% of that is from the "shader_cache" folder. I don't know how much of that is debug stuff though.

I agree Ren'py might be good for a first-person dungeon crawler, or any game where the action is confined to a single, mostly-static screen that you click on to interact with, like a webpage (its screen/style code is basically just CSS).

But OP specifically asked for Fire Emblem gameplay.

Godot has a tiling system with A* pathfinding built-in. In Ren'py, the OP would need to code that from scratch with CDDs and Python.

Ren'py has its uses. Making a Final Fantasy/Zelda-style RPG is not one of them.

Godot has its own WYSIWYG GUI system. You can show an image and put a dialogue box over it with very little effort. Having to reimplement a rudimentary Ren'py-like dialogue system in Godot is less difficult than creating an SNES RPG movement system in Ren'py/Python.

Don't get me wrong, starting out with Godot is harder than learning simple Ren'py syntax. But it's not as hard as getting to the point where you're good enough at Ren'py to remake Fire Emblem. And Godot has a thriving tutorial community (for 2d games, that is). Here's a whole course that teaches exactly what the OP asked for:

You must be registered to see the links

RPG Maker might be another solid option, but I haven't used it in decades.

 

[Winterfire]

I just created a Godot project today with the 4.0 beta. It's 7.5 megabytes. 99% of that is from the "shader_cache" folder. I don't know how much of that is debug stuff though.

7mb for a blank project is REALLY good. For a 2D game, if a general purpose game engine is needed, Godot would win me over only for that.

But OP specifically asked for Fire Emblem gameplay.

Godot has a tiling system with A* pathfinding built-in. In Ren'py, the OP would need to code that from scratch with CDDs and Python.

Ren'py has its uses. Making a Final Fantasy/Zelda-style RPG is not one of them.

I am confused here...

Fire Emblem gameplay is definitely possible, Ren'Py can already cover half of that game whereas the combat has already been done a few times... Nothing recent that would work with Ren'Py 8, but you can look at their code and if you know what you are doing, you can replicate that to a new project.

I agree with you when it comes to FF/Zelda RPG though, while some code exists for that as well, you'd be better off using RPGM instead (or if you cannot afford it, use Godot as you have suggested).

Godot has its own WYSIWYG GUI system. You can show an image and put a dialogue box over it with very little effort. Having to reimplement a rudimentary Ren'py-like dialogue system in Godot is less difficult than creating an SNES RPG movement system in Ren'py/Python.

Ren'Py is MUCH more than that.

I agree that recreating all the FF/Zelda RPG mechanics (including movement, and so on) would be harder.
However, I'd argue Fire Emblem mechanics would be much simpler to implement on Ren'Py rather than trying to implement all the Ren'Py features elsewhere.

From what I am understanding, you think FF/Zelda is the same as Fire Emblem? I mean, the last Fire Emblem I have played is the one from Nintendo DS x); That was a Visual Novel Hybrid with a turn based strategic combat system, not sure if Fire Emblem changed with more recent games.

 

[MidnightArrow]

However, I'd argue Fire Emblem mechanics would be much simpler to implement on Ren'Py rather than trying to implement all the Ren'Py features elsewhere.

I encourage you to give Godot's WYSIWYG editor a shot and see if you still feel that way. Ren'py is specialized to get VNs off the ground quickly, but every time I have to use the fake-CSS "screen language", I want to scream at it "Why can't you be more like Godot?!"

Ren'py has excellent VN support but no TRPG support.

Godot can handle both equally, though it requires more setup since it wasn't customized for either.

From what I am understanding, you think FF/Zelda is the same as Fire Emblem? I mean, the last Fire Emblem I have played is the one from Nintendo DS x); That was a Visual Novel Hybrid with a turn based strategic combat system, not sure if Fire Emblem changed with more recent games.

Haven't actually played any of the Fire Emblem games, though I have played some TRPGs so I know what they're like. I looked up the gameplay when the OP asked about it and it's pretty standard stuff.

 

[DillyDubzee]

To be specific, I was thinking of a game with a management mechanic like [Unity] - [Completed] - Monster Black Market [v1.2.2.0] [Team-Apple Pie] | F95zone with some breeding mechanics like [Others] - Goblin Burrow [v220322] [Peperoncino] | F95zone. So basically you'd breed monsters with character's you'd capture to breed more monsters so you could capture more/better girls etc and etc. And the combat as i said would be like Fire Emblem cause I like those kinds of games and honestly i'm surprised someone hasn't ripped them off yet for their own H game cause I see people requesting such a thing occasionally here and there. Don't even know if this hypothetical game would have a visual novel element but i suppose it would be the best method to deliver the story (Not that the story really matters much).

Also for what its worth I have downloaded Godot (Steam version if it matters) and I've looked at it and watched some videos, still unsure if it that is what I want to go with. I'll probably use Ren'py for a visual novel for my first game just for some practice like someone suggested.

 

[Winterfire]

To be specific, I was thinking of a game with a management mechanic like [Unity] - [Completed] - Monster Black Market [v1.2.2.0] [Team-Apple Pie] | F95zone with some breeding mechanics like [Others] - Goblin Burrow [v220322] [Peperoncino] | F95zone. So basically you'd breed monsters with character's you'd capture to breed more monsters so you could capture more/better girls etc and etc. And the combat as i said would be like Fire Emblem cause I like those kinds of games and honestly i'm surprised someone hasn't ripped them off yet for their own H game cause I see people requesting such a thing occasionally here and there. Don't even know if this hypothetical game would have a visual novel element but i suppose it would be the best method to deliver the story (Not that the story really matters much).

Also for what its worth I have downloaded Godot (Steam version if it matters) and I've looked at it and watched some videos, still unsure if it that is what I want to go with. I'll probably use Ren'py for a visual novel for my first game just for some practice like someone suggested.

Management games have been done in Ren'Py, and Goblin Burrow was made in KiriKiri which is a Visual Novel engine like Ren'Py, so it is possible to do that in Ren'Py.
Fire Emblem style combat is also possible, for instance:

You must be registered to see the links

However, none of those actually work out of the box on Ren'Py 8, so you'd need to learn python to adapt them.

However, as MidnightArrow said, Godot has a visual editor and more tutorials oriented around other stuff (Fire Emblem combat system, RPG movement, and so on) whereas Ren'Py has only some outdated examples.
What Godot doesn't have (Out of the box) are all the Ren'Py features you'd need to reimplement yourself (unless someone done a Visual Novel Framework there).

At the end of the day, I'd suggest learning both... Then, depending on the project you want to create, decide which Game Engine would be a better fit for your idea.

I encourage you to give Godot's WYSIWYG editor a shot

I saw a video and it's pretty much like Unity, and I agree that's a big +1.

 

[zilkin]

Maybe you could get a coder to help you on your game (maybe on this site) because doing your own art, story and planning the game and coding it is a lot of work. I am doing something simple and making a game is taking me more time than doing the art and story because I have to constantly test everything I put into engine.
On youtube there is a Unity tutorial for every game mechanic you want to put in your game. Renpy is designed as visual novel only, and is not user friendly if you want to add other kinds of mechanics. With Unity you can have more freedom and options.
Object programming means you write a couple of lines of code and attach it to your game object, you see the results right away so it is very rewarding. It gets complicated the more different objects you have and more scripts, and you need a script hierarchy so the data from all the other scripts can communicate with the master script (usually called "game manager script"). Like I said, it will take a while to get good at it, but you can be kind of good at it right away.

 

[DillyDubzee]

Management games have been done in Ren'Py, and Goblin Burrow was made in KiriKiri which is a Visual Novel engine like Ren'Py, so it is possible to do that in Ren'Py.
Fire Emblem style combat is also possible, for instance:

You must be registered to see the links

However, none of those actually work out of the box on Ren'Py 8, so you'd need to learn python to adapt them.

However, as MidnightArrow said, Godot has a visual editor and more tutorials oriented around other stuff (Fire Emblem combat system, RPG movement, and so on) whereas Ren'Py has only some outdated examples.
What Godot doesn't have (Out of the box) are all the Ren'Py features you'd need to reimplement yourself (unless someone done a Visual Novel Framework there).

At the end of the day, I'd suggest learning both... Then, depending on the project you want to create, decide which Game Engine would be a better fit for your idea.


I saw a video and it's pretty much like Unity, and I agree that's a big +1.

Thanks for the advice, I think I'll look at the different Ren'py games on this site so I could look at the code myself especially if they have a idea similar to mine in anyway. I have so much to learn but this has sparked my interest, thanks again

 

[DillyDubzee]

Maybe you could get a coder to help you on your game (maybe on this site) because doing your own art, story and planning the game and coding it is a lot of work. I am doing something simple and making a game is taking me more time than doing the art and story because I have to constantly test everything I put into engine.
On youtube there is a Unity tutorial for every game mechanic you want to put in your game. Renpy is designed as visual novel only, and is not user friendly if you want to add other kinds of mechanics. With Unity you can have more freedom and options.
Object programming means you write a couple of lines of code and attach it to your game object, you see the results right away so it is very rewarding. It gets complicated the more different objects you have and more scripts, and you need a script hierarchy so the data from all the other scripts can communicate with the master script (usually called "game manager script"). Like I said, it will take a while to get good at it, but you can be kind of good at it right away.

Working with another person would be interesting but I don't think its feasible. I don't have the money to pay someone (poor ass uni student you see (my course has nothing to do with game development btw)) and I don't imagine a experienced developer would want to team up with someone with close to no knowledge. Maybe someone here would take me on as a 'apprentice' or something but again i'm a uni student so I don't have that much time on my hands so I imagine they'll be more hesitant on someone who isn't fully committed though i admit that does sound kinda appealing if the opportunity presented itself.

My plan was to keep this as a on and off project until it eventually gets done, I had no idea how ambitious my idea even was for a single person. I just had a idea that I thought was good so I wanna do it. Regardless though if this takes me a decade or longer than so be it, i'm fine with that though i do hope its not that long

 

[clowns234]

As I see it, the only limitation with renpy is the limitation of python. In other words, if the mechanics can be programed in python, it can be implemented in renpy. If I am wrong, please explain.

 

[DillyDubzee]

Actually I just had an idea, would modding be a bad place to start? Cause I have a decent amount of knowledge on how Goblin Burrow's code works, I've edited the text files before to change the dialogue to what I see fit and I'm sure I could do plenty of other stuff as well.

My idea is to basically replace pre-existing characters with different themed packs, replacing the current roster of characters with characters from established IPs (Such as Fire Emblem or Pokemon for example). It would be good practice for my pixel art skills as I'd have to replace the CG scenes with Pixel Art too so it would be a good all round improvement to my skill set.

Anyone have thoughts on this idea?

 

[clowns234]

Actually I just had an idea, would modding be a bad place to start? Cause I have a decent amount of knowledge on how Goblin Burrow's code works, I've edited the text files before to change the dialogue to what I see fit and I'm sure I could do plenty of other stuff as well.

My idea is to basically replace pre-existing characters with different themed packs, replacing the current roster of characters with characters from established IPs (Such as Fire Emblem or Pokemon for example). It would be good practice for my pixel art skills as I'd have to replace the CG scenes with Pixel Art too so it would be a good all round improvement to my skill set.

Anyone have thoughts on this idea?

Sort of how I started. Going into the code to tweak the dialog or fix a bug or find a way to bypass mini-games.

 

[zilkin]

As I see it, the only limitation with renpy is the limitation of python. In other words, if the mechanics can be programed in python, it can be implemented in renpy. If I am wrong, please explain.

Renpy's graphic user interface is designed to be a visual novel style game, you can import pictures and graphics into it, but I don't know how much python code you would have to write to create a different style game. An experienced python programmer could probably easily do it, but with other game engines like Unity it is simpler to achieve the same result because you can put any kind of graphics, 2d or 3d, or animations, directly into game window and attach simple code to it. In renpy you would probably have to write a bunch of code first and then maybe see the results later while in Unity you can see the result right away.
Renpy on the other hand is much simpler to use if you are only creating a visual novel because all you have to do is some basic code and import pictures and write text and that is it. If you know how to write python really good, maybe you can even create a videogame in Blender (maybe, I heard it is only a 3d creation program now but some crazy coder could probably do it). That would be interesting as Blender is the most versatile program I ever used, you can do anything in it from 3d modeling, rendering, video and image editing, animation and it used to be a game engine too and it runs on python so a python guy could edit the program to make it even more versatile. That's crazy.

 

[clowns234]

Renpy's graphic user interface is designed to be a visual novel style game, you can import pictures and graphics into it, but I don't know how much python code you would have to write to create a different style game. An experienced python programmer could probably easily do it, but with other game engines like Unity it is simpler to achieve the same result because you can put any kind of graphics, 2d or 3d, or animations, directly into game window and attach simple code to it. In renpy you would probably have to write a bunch of code first and then maybe see the results later while in Unity you can see the result right away.
Renpy on the other hand is much simpler to use if you are only creating a visual novel because all you have to do is some basic code and import pictures and write text and that is it. If you know how to write python really good, maybe you can even create a videogame in Blender (maybe, I heard it is only a 3d creation program now but some crazy coder could probably do it). That would be interesting as Blender is the most versatile program I ever used, you can do anything in it from 3d modeling, rendering, video and image editing, animation and it used to be a game engine too and it runs on python so a python guy could edit the program to make it even more versatile. That's crazy.

I started with renpy, figured that out more or less, then I started adding in python code (something I had never worked with before). For me, this is fun.

 

[MidnightArrow]

As I see it, the only limitation with renpy is the limitation of python. In other words, if the mechanics can be programed in python, it can be implemented in renpy. If I am wrong, please explain.

Ren'py is a glorified website designer. You lay out static screens with pseudo-CSS screen language. You can implement more with Python, but you're fighting against the "website-ness" of the Ren'py engine that wraps everything up. All of its tools and architecture are built around the "show a static screen and wait for user input" model.

 

[clowns234]

Ren'py is a glorified website designer. You lay out static screens with pseudo-CSS screen language. You can implement more with Python, but you're fighting against the "website-ness" of the Ren'py engine that wraps everything up. All of its tools and architecture are built around the "show a static screen and wait for user input" model.

Do you have a specific example of something that you can't do in renpy / python?

 

[MidnightArrow]

Do you have a specific example of something that you can't do in renpy / python?

I worked on a freeroam engine for a bit. I wanted to remove the need for ugly hardcoded conditionals/switch statements by using an OOP design where each room object stores an array of items that are drawn to the screen. Screen language uses specialized "Screen Actions" to avoid problems with prediction. I had to come up with a workaround where I used Function() to call an overridden method on a custom Python object to interact with something rendered on screen, which then had to use "renpy.call_in_new_context()" to load a Ren'py label inside of screen language, but the docs explain it has side effects about rollback and saving and loading that I need to worry about now.

It's not that you can't do something, it's that Ren'py's top-level architecture gets in the way of doing it.

Godot has a very flexible architecture with a single scripting language. You define your own game state with nodes and scripts and use the observer pattern to fire off signals between components. You're not locked into the Pythonic "there's only one way to do it" mentality.

 

[MidnightArrow]

What Godot doesn't have (Out of the box) are all the Ren'Py features you'd need to reimplement yourself (unless someone done a Visual Novel Framework there).

There is one under active development that credits Ren'py for inspiration.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Tompte]

As I see it, the only limitation with renpy is the limitation of python. In other words, if the mechanics can be programed in python, it can be implemented in renpy.

I'd like to add one very important limitation: learning resources. If I wanted to learn how to make a non-VN using Ren'Py, where would I find that information? (The Python reference documentation doesn't count.) Doesn't most Ren'Py tutorials and guides assume you're making a VN because that's what the engine was designed to do? The fact you could, in theory, use Python to make anything isn't a very good reason if you ask me.

I would think very carefully before recommending a VN engine to a beginner who isn't asking to make a visual novel.

 

[clowns234]

I'd like to add one very important limitation: learning resources. If I wanted to learn how to make a non-VN using Ren'Py, where would I find that information? (The Python reference documentation doesn't count.) Doesn't most Ren'Py tutorials and guides assume you're making a VN because that's what the engine was designed to do? The fact you could, in theory, use Python to make anything isn't a very good reason if you ask me.

I would think very carefully before recommending a VN engine to a beginner who isn't asking to make a visual novel.

Someone with little or no programming background could easily jump right into Renpy. Let them get a taste of what it takes to put something like this together. Also, let them know that doing advanced game mechanics is no simple task. If his heart is into doing 'pixels', then he would probably be better off working with someone who has the programming experience. At least, that's my opinion.